Early SBC Intake Gaskets

[red67]

I'm looking for a set of early pre EGR intake manifold gaskets for a small block Chev. Specifically for the 327 in my 1967 Camaro. Attached is a a picture showing the currently available Felpro gasket with an early Victor at the top. Since the intake manifold for the 327 has no EGR provision the Felpro gasket sticks out above the manifold and does not look stock. Anybody have any ideas where I might find a pre EGR gasket? The Victor is really old and starting to flake so I really don't want to use it. It is from my inventory and probably about 40 years old. I could cut the Felpro but the steel core make the job difficult, especially for rounded corners.

[novadude]

Don't know if you are aware of this, but those blue fel-pro gaskets sometimes don't seal very well with aluminum intakes. I would use a Fel-pro 1256. I don't think these have a steel core so they should be easy to trim.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel-Pro/375/1256/10002/-1

Here is a link with a scan that shows where Edelbrock says DO NOT use the blue permatorque gaskets.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=528147

[earntaz]

X2 -- works better with the silicon bead around the port ... pay attention to torque also ... TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

[red67]

Thanks for the comments and links on the various types of gaskets. I'm not using an aluminum intake so that is not a problem. I'm using the stock cast iron QJet intake. I'm aware of the issues with the types of gaskets for aluminum intakes as I'm a drag racer with various engines from bracket race to Competition Eliminator. I used to buy GM intake gaskets for my stock engines but now those are almost nonexistent as with other GM gaskets for older Chevys. Try buying a GM rear main seal these days. When I bought one at my local GM dealer there were only four in all of the USA and it had to come from a regional warehouse centre. Same with a timing cover gasket. Felpro has so dominated the gasket market that it is hard to buy anything else and some of their products are very poor and their tech centre help can be hit and miss. Really depends on who you get. Certainly stay away from their rear main seals. They are really bad. Not surprised that Edelbrock is making their own gaskets these days.

My concern here is the shape of the gasket. I want something that does not have the EGR provision that is like the Victor MS15114 on the top that follows the profile of the intake. The bottom gasket is Felpro 90314-1. Is this Felpro Permatorque? Doesn't say that anywhere. The head gaskets always say PT on them.

[earntaz]

Now I am digging back to my Corvette days -- check these gaskets out. TAZ

http://www.zip-corvette.com/57-68-283-327-intake-manifold-gaskets-correct.html

[novadude]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: red67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Felpro has so dominated the gasket market that it is hard to buy anything else and some of their products are very poor and Certainly stay away from their rear main seals..... They are really bad. Not surprised that Edelbrock is making their own gaskets these days.

</div></div>

Agree 100% here. Those blue rear main seals are garbage. Must have done a dozen rear main seals in my life and never had a single leaker until I tried one of the blue fel-pros. I am certain that it wasn't my installation technique either.

I've always preferred Victor-Reinz gaskets over Fel-pro, but they are getting harder and harder to find.

[red67]

Thanks earntaz: Just what I was looking for. I was told that it was possible that the restoration suppliers might have something. The gasket at ZIP you linked to looks exactly like the old Victor MS15114 I have. I'll see what I can find locally and if not I'll give ZIP a call.

[red67]

Thanks novadude: The blue Felpro rear main seals are actually not bad compared to the &quot;Premium&quot; (and more expensive) flouroelastomer red Felpro seal. It is the worst of the worst. Not that I would use a blue Felpro. They are pretty bad also. I did extensive research on rear main seals for my 327 rebuild I'm working on. It is for my wife's car and I don't want to hear about leaks in the driveway or in the garage. I purchased every rear main seal I could get my hands on (over $300) and compared them all. Hands down the best (not just my opinion but those in the shop) was the SKF 199. Hard to get but it is just was so much higher quality than the rest it just stood out. I found two stores locally that could get it including NAPA. I bought mine from the local independent as much cheaper than NAPA. Follow the instructions on the package to the letter when installing it. DO NOT put it in the cap or block until you have read the instructions at least a few times and understand them completely. Use the shoehorn included in the kit or you will destroy the seal with even a test installation (done that). Use anaerobic sealer from Permatex or Loctite with anaerobic activator or Kleen and Prime on the block and just enough sealer to make it work. Anaerobic sealer is way more expensive than silicone but there is just no comparison in the product but you must understand how it works and its limitations. Techs in the shop love it. Hope this might help you in the future. I can expand on my research if anyone is interested.

I also prefer Victor but as you say hard to get now with the Felpro dominance. Also, Victor seems to be concentrating on imports now that they are Victor Reinz.

[novadude]

Thanks for the info on seals. Rockauto has that SKF 199 for $25.79. Pretty much inline with the Red &quot;premium&quot; fel-pro seal.

When the blue Fel-pro seal was leaking in my new Engine build, everyone said the red fel-pro seal was the one to use. Oddly, it actually worked for me - no leaks with the flouroelastomer Fel-pro seal.

I might consider picking up a SKF seal, as I expect eventually everyone else will just source seals from Fel-pro and we'll have no choice. Might be nice to get a good one while I can and keep it around for future builds.

Oh...and I agree... silicone sucks for stuff like main caps!

[earntaz]

I've used various brands of gaskets over the years -- the old Victor gaskets were the cats meow before FelPro came on the market. As far as rear main seals -- it's all in preparation. I have always &quot;dressed&quot; the edge of the main cap and block where they slide into the groove on the seal. You don't want to &quot;shave&quot; and material off the seal during installation. Also, I apply a dab of Hi-Tack to the main parting surface (between cap and block) to prevent oil from seeping between them. Another &quot;trick&quot; is to off-set the seal parting lines -- I've installed them both ways ... doesn't seem to make any difference if seal is installed carefully. If available for your application -- use the one piece pan gasket. This has worked for me on both SBC and BBC engines. TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[novadude]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've used various brands of gaskets over the years -- the old Victor gaskets were the cats meow before FelPro came on the market. As far as rear main seals -- it's all in preparation. I have always &quot;dressed&quot; the edge of the main cap and block where they slide into the groove on the seal. You don't want to &quot;shave&quot; and material off the seal during installation. Also, I apply a dab of Hi-Tack to the main parting surface (between cap and block) to prevent oil from seeping between them. Another &quot;trick&quot; is to off-set the seal parting lines -- I've installed them both ways ... doesn't seem to make any difference if seal is installed carefully. If available for your application -- use the one piece pan gasket. This has worked for me on both SBC and BBC engines. TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif </div></div>

I know all the &quot;tricks&quot; to installing seals, but I think you'll find that I am not the only one who has had issues with the current fel-pro rear main seals, even using all of the proper techniques.

[earntaz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: novadude</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've used various brands of gaskets over the years -- the old Victor gaskets were the cats meow before FelPro came on the market. As far as rear main seals -- it's all in preparation. I have always &quot;dressed&quot; the edge of the main cap and block where they slide into the groove on the seal. You don't want to &quot;shave&quot; and material off the seal during installation. Also, I apply a dab of Hi-Tack to the main parting surface (between cap and block) to prevent oil from seeping between them. Another &quot;trick&quot; is to off-set the seal parting lines -- I've installed them both ways ... doesn't seem to make any difference if seal is installed carefully. If available for your application -- use the one piece pan gasket. This has worked for me on both SBC and BBC engines. TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif </div></div>

I know all the &quot;tricks&quot; to installing seals, but I think you'll find that I am not the only one who has had issues with the current fel-pro rear main seals, even using all of the proper techniques. </div></div>

Another issue that may cause this is excessive pressure in the crankcase -- valve cover breathers, etc. not fuctioning as advertised ... but then too, maybe I’ve just been lucky ... TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[red67]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've used various brands of gaskets over the years -- the old Victor gaskets were the cats meow before FelPro came on the market. As far as rear main seals -- it's all in preparation. I have always &quot;dressed&quot; the edge of the main cap and block where they slide into the groove on the seal. You don't want to &quot;shave&quot; and material off the seal during installation. Also, I apply a dab of Hi-Tack to the main parting surface (between cap and block) to prevent oil from seeping between them. Another &quot;trick&quot; is to off-set the seal parting lines -- I've installed them both ways ... doesn't seem to make any difference if seal is installed carefully. If available for your application -- use the one piece pan gasket. This has worked for me on both SBC and BBC engines. TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif </div></div>

Thanks Taz. Yes, I really like the old Victor gaskets. I believe they made them for GM as the gasket I show in the photo above has the Victor logo and also a GM logo. Detroit Gasket also made gaskets for GM but since they were bought out, I believe by Cometic, they don't seem to be available readily anymore either.

I completely agree on installation technique. Some of the seals come with very good instructions that specifically outline how to install them and one of the items is making sure that the cap and block do not have sharp edges. The SKF 199 is really tight in the cap and block so this is especially important with this seal. The only seals I have seen that advises offset are the Felpro. The others specifically say not to so this and not to use any sealer on the ends of the seals, just on the block by the seal. The current GM seal has the most detailed instructions. Attention to detail is paramount.

I used the current one piece pan gasket on this engine. Unfortunately the only source is Felpro for the small front pan seal type of pan made before 1974. Other sources have a black gasket but only for the larger pan seal from 1974 on. Not the best for a restoration but what can you do. I've used these gaskets on race engines for a few years now with good success. Another place to watch for leaks is the timing cover where the pan flange is welded on. I've had these leak between the flange and the timing cover. Some are welded very well and others are not. I also built a tool that registers off the end of the crank and dial indicate the balancer seal area to make sure it is square to the crank. Amazing what you find.