copo trim tag #s

[supercomp 8.90]

anyone have any copo trim tag numbers close to 142979?

[firstgenaddict]

late car after reset correct?

[supercomp 8.90]

yes

[supercomp 8.90]

I have 142845 and 142850 that's as close as I can get.

[William]

That it is or is not close to other known COPOs is meaningless.

[resto4u]

William, how is it meaningless? If a dealer ordered 10 copo's and you have one number away from a real copo, why would the odds not be good that car would be in that batch of 10 copo's ordered. But there were many dealers that ordered small quantity's. Was there a minimum order for copo's, or they would just hold orders and then line them up and build larger batches with many orders from several dealers? Roger

[camaromb]

Even the Canadian imported Copo Camaros are batched in a handful of consecutive body # groups.

[William]

The ‘COPO body number theory’ developed years ago based on data from Gibb and Yenko. The body numbers for many of their COPOs [and some other dealers] are often in groupings of consecutive numbers. The thinking was a potential COPO had to fit into one of the known groups. If it did not, it was ruled out as a COPO. At one time it was thought dealers had to order COPOs in some minimum quantity. Several dealers ordered one ZL1 and are not known to have ordered other COPOs. There are many known COPOs with random body numbers. As more COPO data became available it was obvious that the theory did not generally apply.

Consecutive body numbers are a byproduct of a dealer submitting a group of orders. If a dealer ordered several Camaros at a time and they and were quickly confirmed they typically have consecutive body numbers regardless of equipment. JM’s 1969 Camaro book has copies of documents for two 1969 Z/28s: N632127 [BDY 307027] and N632342 [BDY 307028]. There is a third car in the string that was not a Z/28: N627532 [BDY 307026]. The same dealership ordered 98 1969 Camaros; of those 56 are in sequence with at least one other car. Groups are typically 2-3 cars however there are groups of 7 & 8 cars. Berger Chevrolet ordered perhaps 50 9561 and 1 9560 COPOs in 4-5 separate groups. Their earliest COPOs have body numbers grouped in the N206xxx range and typically VINs of N607xxx-N609xxx. However their ZL1 N608193 is not in that range. It may or may not have been ordered with the others. If one of the cars in a group was not immediately confirmed it will not be in body number sequence with the others. One Gibb ZL1 is not in sequence with the other 49; all were ordered at the same time. Other Berger 9561 COPOs are not in sequence with any of their known COPOs.

There are other dealers with multiple COPOs also not in sequence: Dale, Emmert and Glockner to name a few.

I took a look through the CRG db and quickly found several examples of COPOs with body numbers very close or in sequence with standard production cars:

NOR 2xx748 is an L65 Powerglide
NOR 2xx749 is a COPO automatic

NOR 2xx130 is a Z11
NOR 2xx136 is a ZL1

NOR 2xx050 is a COPO
NOR 2xx052 is a Camaro SS convertible

[camaromb]

Yes, the body #s alone can be meaningless when compared to other close body #s since other regular orders would be close to Copo cars, just another order in sequence. The ZL1 Camaros were unique in their production and do not seem to follow such a typical body # order/production execution.

It is the typical great difference in vin#/assembly date from regular production cars with close body #s when looking at potential Copo cars that is much more important. Because of the delay in components such as the BE 12 bolt the orders were delayed typically resulting in a much later build date/vin # when compared to regular production cars/body #s that had no production delays. The body # by itself is meaningless unless the separation by production/build dates and the existence of other body #s of other Copo cars are considered. We have learned of many Copo cars because of the body # as the first indication especially when related to the vin # and production date of similar Copo cars. Almost all of the dealer ordered Copo cars that had individual multiple car orders with the same build date have been documented to have consecutive body numbers.

The earliest 50 Yenko Copo Camaros built in '69 were ordered in Oct. '68 and were assigned order/body #s in the 202450-202500 range and the resulting vins were in the N578xxx-N587xxx range for January second week '69 production. I don't any 01B built regular production Camaro body #s to compare but they should be quite a bit later than the Yenkos body #s built at that time for example.

[William]

You're looking at COPO data. I'm looking at a reasonable sample of <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> 1969 Camaro production at Norwood. The disparity in VIN/body numbers between regular production cars and COPOs virtually disappears by 06A.

<span style="font-style: italic">&quot;Almost all of the dealer ordered Copo cars that had individual multiple car orders with the same build date have been documented to have consecutive body numbers.&quot;
</span>
Another way of saying the same thing is that NOT all of them will have consecutive body numbers. The Dale Chev COPO that was at MCACN last year was an example. Two other surviving 05E Dale COPOs are in sequence; this one isn't and it greatly bothered the owner. His car may in fact have been ordered at the same time but not confirmed immediately; its body number is 2,100 later than the others but it was built at the same time and arrived on the same transporter. Just dumb luck our db has the next body number; it's a Camaro SS coupe.

That in a nutshell is the perception problem years of talk about COPO body numbers has created. That's why the question was posted in the first place.

A car that has a body number in sequence with other known COPOs is not necessarily a COPO.
A car that has a body number nowhere near other known COPOs may in fact be a COPO.

There is data to support both statements.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Nicely put and thanks for the great info/clarification!
Again best use all details available as individual clues that mixed w/ other facts add up to solid results, not on their own unless obviously/conclusively known.
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

[supercomp 8.90]

I know the body number theory is hit or miss but like pete said you need to put together the little clues when documenting a possible copo.

[resto4u]

Thank you william and mark for the explaination. This makes it more clear than i have heard expained by others. The knowledge base here is great. Roger

[William]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: supercomp 8.90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know the body number theory is hit or miss but like pete said you need to put together the little clues when documenting a possible copo. </div></div>

I mentioned N700165 on the CRG site because of certain physical characteristics: X44D80 tag, BB heater, power front discs, possible Muncie speedo cable routing. That the body number wasn't close to other known COPOs didn't concern me. No secrets left these days, most of that stuff can be added. But it should be examined and a determination made. The car is 200 miles from the site of Indian River Chev, a known COPO dealer. Maybe it was one of several ordered; maybe it was an individual order.

The current COPO body of knowledge contains at least some info on about 500 cars. Many of those are Yenkos cars. If there truly were 900+ L72 COPOs built we have no knowledge on around 400 of them. Remember the famous photo of Macs Chev-Olds, Crete NE? June 1969, the owners posed for a photo surrounded by 8 COPO Camaros. Of the 8, only one is known to exist. Since they are all present, they must have been ordered/received at the same time. The surviving car has a body number nowhere near other known COPOs. Is it in sequence with the other 7?

Plenty left to learn about COPO Camaros.

[supercomp 8.90]

my buddy went to check it out he said no exhaust plate, could not see any piercings on firewall repro bb heater cover, lots of sheetmetal replaced with cheap sheet metal, oh well it was worth a look!

[William]

Good to know for sure. An X44D80 tag has been seen on a number of COPOs.