Top Day 2 Musclecars? [Archive] - The Supercar Registry

bulletpruf

09-05-2016, 06:31 PM

Fellas -

Have been doing some bench racing with a buddy of mine with the possibility that I'll end up building something if it's feasible. Here's the premise -- build the fastest "Day 2" Musclecar, with common bolt on and period correct modifications.

Why? I think we have a pretty good idea from old magazine articles (the ones that were legit) and the cars that are racing Pure Stock Drags what the quickest musclecars were off the showroom floor. Yes, Pure Stock Drags cars are allowed some minor modifications, but nothing outrageous and they have to run on original size and style tires.

Anyway, I love the Pure Stock Drags, but is it really representative of what you would be lining up against in a street race in any given town from 1964-1971? At the very least, you'd see more rubber (and slapper bars) on the back end, maybe some 4.56's, a shift kit in the auto trannies, and upgraded clutches and shifters in the 3 pedal cars. The engine might have a cam, headers, and a better intake, carb, and better ignition.

So, what would the top Day 2 cars be for each given manufacturer? Car would need to come off a production line; nothing built by specialty shops. No machine work done to the engine; just bolt ons (cam/lifter/springs, headers, carb, intake, distributor), shift kit ok for auto trans, better gears are fine, more tire on the back, etc. Parts have to be period correct, including cam grinds. Would have to be a "musclecar" so no 2 seaters (sorry Corvette folks - I love 'em too).

My $.02. Sorry if I hurt any feelings; this is just my SWAG (Stupid Wild-Assed Guess).

Buick - 70 GS Stage 1. Not a real player.

Olds - I'm not an Olds guy, but would have to be the 66-67 W30 according to my buddy. Followed by 70 W31, I think. Also not super competitive.

Pontiac - 68 RA I or RA II Bird. Competitive. Headers should wake it up some, and perhaps a Holley DP, better intake, and more cam to take advantage of it all? It wouldn't be terribly expensive or difficult to replicate one of these if you could find the heads.

Chevy - ZL-1 has to be top dog, right? But I REALLY like the idea of a 66 Deuce sedan with more cam, headers, larger Holley, and better intake.

Ford - I think this is where you would see some real progress. Shock tower cars have been hampered by lousy exhaust manifolds, so the headers should really wake 'em up. I'm thinking either a 66 Fairlane sedan with a 427 MR (can you fit 1 3/4 headers without hacking the shock towers?) or a 68 Mustang coupe with a 428 CJ. Aluminum intakes takes a LOT of weight off the front end of an FE car, too.

Mopar - 67 RO/WO hemi car. Maybe an A12 car as a backup?

AMC - I'm thinking 70 AMX with a 390.

Thoughts? If I were to build one, I think you could piece together a 68 Mustang CJ clone for cheap. 428 stuff isn't crazy expensive, and you can still find unmolested CJ heads and 428 blocks. And Ford made millions of Mustang coupes, too. Either that or the 68 RAII 'Bird.

If you were to line up the top cars from each manufacturer (only one Mopar, only one Ford/Mercury) and race, I'm thinking the ZL1 would come out on top. Followed by the RO/WO hemi. Then the RAI/II Bird. With the Ford next, but I'm not sure if it would be the Fairlane or the Rust...errr....Mustang.

Your thoughts?

Scott

Postsedan

09-05-2016, 06:57 PM

'70 Stage1 - Not a player....What? You obviously have never driven a Stage1.

If they were the cars that were listed on the "Top Fifty" fastest Muscle Cars.....how in the world would say that any of the "Top Ten".....would not be players?

Dan

Ryan1969Chevelle

09-05-2016, 07:02 PM

You have really peaked my interest:-)

The Pure Stock and FAST classes don't have a spot for the "DAY-2" cars. Would that ever be a fun addition:-) Even the original Stock or Super Stock would be cool. Those of us that missed the drag race days could get a turn.

Ryan

PxTx

09-05-2016, 07:58 PM

I love discussions on Day 2 cars. Not really sure where you could set limits or more specifically, how do you set a identify when a threshold is crossed?

My Dad's 67 Nova was a "Day 2 car from Day 1". It was bought in June 67 and before 1968, it had bigger gears and a roller cam installed. Unfortunately, they did not install a cam button and it ended up pushing out the timing cover! So a deal was worked out with a group in-the-know to update it with a 68 Z28 motor.

Anyways, my point is that if you are trying to recreate what it was like on the streets back-in-the-day you best bet is to define when. Let's say the rules are set to be like it was in the summer of 1971 (though summer of '69 would be my preference).

An older car, would have more time for an evolved mod, such as a 55 Chevy with a W motor- like Bob Falfa, and there were plenty of Tri-Five on the street in the late 1960's.

To define the Day 2 mods to only be rubber, gears, traction bars, inakes cams and headers would probably be unrealistic to the spirit of the day.

I'm more than a little partial, but by 1971 my Dad had his 67 Nova sorted out the best combination for the street with an LT1 motor, fender well headers, 4.88 gears and disarming white wall tires. I've heard stories of it taking down a blown Corvette for a big street upset. My favorite was when a rival for me in the early 1990's was talking up his 5.0 Mustang against my 65 Chevelle and his buddy let it slip that the father of the kid with the 5.0 had a 69 Boss Mustang and warned him not to race my father's Nova for money! Well he might as well told the kid to do it.

Thanks for allowing me to swing off topic a bit, but motor swaps, or stroker cranks and machine were we happening on Day 2.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww101/Plowman7/Plowman%20Scans/67Deuce.jpg (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/Plowman7/media/Plowman%20Scans/67Deuce.jpg.html)

WILMASBOYL78

09-05-2016, 08:45 PM

Of course I'm a Nova guy...but, I would choose the following:

68 or 69 L78 car/plain jane 731 interior/rubber mat/no options...4.56 gears...M22 tranny for the 68, traction bars/Harrell clamps, headers w/proper exhaust, re-curve distributor, Hurst shifter, as much rubber as will fit in the rear...if it was a 69 I would probably choose the TH400 for the base platform with a little better convertor.

There won't be much that will catch it...no need to go inside the motor.

wilma

old5.0

09-05-2016, 10:24 PM

Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford.

StriperSS

09-05-2016, 11:25 PM

Lots of people underestimated Stage 1 Buicks back then..................... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

PxTx

09-05-2016, 11:32 PM

I guess Day 2 really is just grudge racing with a technology cut off- I guess 1971 or 2 would be cool for most of us.

napa68

09-05-2016, 11:38 PM

Interesting discussion. Frankly, it opens up a whole new subject to the FAST and Pure Stock racing. Im going to sit back and read.

I know of a 68 Camaro that fits this <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

68l30

09-06-2016, 12:27 AM

Interesting discussion. I believe Day 2 is a slippery slope, especially if you want to try to classify it. I think historicly most cars that are called Day 2 had a metamorphous thru their lifetime. IMHO Day 2 in the purest sense was the "First Period" a group of modifications done almost immediately. Such as wheels ( not necessarily tires) , small bolt ons, exhaust....crude lettering if raced ( often shoe polish) but retaining a " Stocker" outward appearance. The next few weeks or months morphed into a "Second Period" missing more stock items, bigger tires, paint work, different hoods, roll bars, major suspension mods...becoming more track-race only. I believe from here out, competitive adrenlin and the classification / rulebook pushed the rest into " Third Period" glass panels and tubbed rear, custom painted, showcars or caged race cars. It's easy to put a time frame on Day 2 parts, but what about the time frame of the build? Is it really Day 2 or Month 2?

From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index....

I believe there are a lot of great Day 2 cars out there. Lot's of time frames and transitions to enjoy.......Honor the period and stay away from Summit! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

BIG

PxTx

09-06-2016, 01:01 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index....

BIG </div></div>

Instantly thought of the movie Two Lane Blacktop. Did the 55 have an advantage over the GTO- maybe all it had going for it were aftermarket rims.

So the 55 wasn't a pure Day 2 car. Maybe I'm less of a Day 2 fan and more of a fan of the aftermarket products from the 1960's!

Also a grudge race/ street race / sleeper / underdog fan. Kinda like how the SCR has encouraged even non-super car rides to participate in the drags.

Hard to bottle it all up, but if you could create a compitition similar to what was happening in an unclassified way on the streets of the USA during the Muscle Car era- that would be magical. Fastest Street Car Shoot-Out circa 1969!

68l30

09-06-2016, 01:29 AM

Good comparison on the TLBT cars. One far removed, but period and the other in a very early Day 2 transformation. Perfect counterpoint to my comment but validates the build phase when not taken into consideration. Day 2 stops after some point...Era correct takes over when the build fits a time period.

Great topic! BTW, love that Chevy II.... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif

BIG

old5.0

09-06-2016, 01:52 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. I believe Day 2 is a slippery slope, especially if you want to try to classify it. I think historicly most cars that are called Day 2 had a metamorphous thru their lifetime. IMHO Day 2 in the purest sense was the "First Period" a group of modifications done almost immediately. Such as wheels ( not necessarily tires) , small bolt ons, exhaust....crude lettering if raced ( often shoe polish) but retaining a " Stocker" outward appearance. The next few weeks or months morphed into a "Second Period" missing more stock items, bigger tires, paint work, different hoods, roll bars, major suspension mods...becoming more track-race only. I believe from here out, competitive adrenlin and the classification / rulebook pushed the rest into " Third Period" glass panels and tubbed rear, custom painted, showcars or caged race cars. It's easy to put a time frame on Day 2 parts, but what about the time frame of the build? Is it really Day 2 or Month 2?

From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index....

I believe there are a lot of great Day 2 cars out there. Lot's of time frames and transitions to enjoy.......Honor the period and stay away from Summit! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

BIG </div></div>

A friend has a 68 Chevelle SS396. It was bought new as an L78/M21 car and was immediately put into street racer service. This is an unrestored car that has never been abandoned to the back of the shed or the south 40 and has never been "just" a driver. It's evolved through the years from it's modded L78 origins and now sports an 18* small block on two guns with a Liberty 5-speed and ladder bars and is <span style="font-style: italic">still</span> street raced regularly.

So what's Day 2? Day 3? Year 2? Cars evolve and it's tough to nail down a hard cut-off for what is or is not Day 2. As you say, a slippery slope.

Schonyenko2

09-06-2016, 02:06 AM

2 cents worth. Being from the 60s/70's the biggest issues for winning street races was getting traction, and breathing. A L78 Nova with factory E70 tires from the factory would be dead meat running a stock 340 duster/cuda with L60's and a good gear. Cam changes, and motor internals usually happened after you got your ass handed to you by some dick wad mouth runner. It was a natural progression like Big said. Day 2 started with the big three. Headers, Big meats and wheels, and slapper bars. The rest depended on your testosterone level, money, and traffic arrest record.

I do miss those days.

442w30

09-06-2016, 03:03 AM

Shouldn't we look at cars that were built by the factory to be Day 2 cars?

Not everything in the showroom ran well stock. Boss 429 comes to mind. What else?

- 1968-69 W30
- 1970 W30 4-speed
- 1968-70 W31?????

Do you agree with the above? What else would you add?

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 04:46 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Postsedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'70 Stage1 - Not a player....What? You obviously have never driven a Stage1.

If they were the cars that were listed on the "Top Fifty" fastest Muscle Cars.....how in the world would say that any of the "Top Ten".....would not be players?

Dan </div></div>

Dan -

I'm a big fan of GS Buicks. Have come close to buying a few, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. "Not a player" is probably the wrong phase. I just wouldn't expect one to be in the top three. Having said that, I'm happy to be wrong on this.

Thanks,

Scott

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 04:52 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love discussions on Day 2 cars. Not really sure where you could set limits or more specifically, how do you set a identify when a threshold is crossed?

My Dad's 67 Nova was a "Day 2 car from Day 1". It was bought in June 67 and before 1968, it had bigger gears and a roller cam installed. Unfortunately, they did not install a cam button and it ended up pushing out the timing cover! So a deal was worked out with a group in-the-know to update it with a 68 Z28 motor.

Anyways, my point is that if you are trying to recreate what it was like on the streets back-in-the-day you best bet is to define when. Let's say the rules are set to be like it was in the summer of 1971 (though summer of '69 would be my preference).

An older car, would have more time for an evolved mod, such as a 55 Chevy with a W motor- like Bob Falfa, and there were plenty of Tri-Five on the street in the late 1960's.

To define the Day 2 mods to only be rubber, gears, traction bars, inakes cams and headers would probably be unrealistic to the spirit of the day.

I'm more than a little partial, but by 1971 my Dad had his 67 Nova sorted out the best combination for the street with an LT1 motor, fender well headers, 4.88 gears and disarming white wall tires. I've heard stories of it taking down a blown Corvette for a big street upset. My favorite was when a rival for me in the early 1990's was talking up his 5.0 Mustang against my 65 Chevelle and his buddy let it slip that the father of the kid with the 5.0 had a 69 Boss Mustang and warned him not to race my father's Nova for money! Well he might as well told the kid to do it.

Thanks for allowing me to swing off topic a bit, but motor swaps, or stroker cranks and machine were we happening on Day 2.
</div></div>

Love the Nova! Cool story, too.

As for Day 2, I realize all of these mods (engine swaps, etc) were happening as soon as Day 2, but the conversation I'm interested in is what were the quickest street cars on Day 2, given some reasonable (and common) modifications and a realistic budget.

If you could keep it simple and relatively inexpensive, I think it would be a great racing class to complement Pure Stock Drags and FAST.

Thanks for the input.

Scott

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 05:01 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course I'm a Nova guy...but, I would choose the following:

68 or 69 L78 car/plain jane 731 interior/rubber mat/no options...4.56 gears...M22 tranny for the 68, traction bars/Harrell clamps, headers w/proper exhaust, re-curve distributor, Hurst shifter, as much rubber as will fit in the rear...if it was a 69 I would probably choose the TH400 for the base platform with a little better convertor.

There won't be much that will catch it...no need to go inside the motor.

wilma </div></div>

That's one of my favorite cars from "back in the day." Love a car that's optioned with one thing in mind, too -- going fast in a straight line.

Thanks for the input.

Scott

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 05:06 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/67%20Fairlane%20Hardtop/100_2781.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/67%20Fairlane%20Hardtop/100_2781.jpg.html)

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 05:07 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess Day 2 really is just grudge racing with a technology cut off- I guess 1971 or 2 would be cool for most of us.
</div></div>

Bingo.

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 05:12 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: napa68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. Frankly, it opens up a whole new subject to the FAST and Pure Stock racing. Im going to sit back and read.

I know of a 68 Camaro that fits this <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif </div></div>

FAST is a bit of a stretch, if you ask me. It's interesting, but not really representative of what you would have seen on the streets. I think it's also quite expensive, if you want to be competitive.

Pure Stock Drags, in my opinion, are quite relevant in the "what was the fastest showroom stock musclecar" discussion; Day 2 would just be an evolutionary step. Would be neat to have Pure Stock Drags on a Saturday and then race the same cars in Day 2 trim on a Sunday.

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 05:19 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting discussion. I believe Day 2 is a slippery slope, especially if you want to try to classify it. I think historicly most cars that are called Day 2 had a metamorphous thru their lifetime. IMHO Day 2 in the purest sense was the "First Period" a group of modifications done almost immediately. Such as wheels ( not necessarily tires) , small bolt ons, exhaust....crude lettering if raced ( often shoe polish) but retaining a " Stocker" outward appearance. The next few weeks or months morphed into a "Second Period" missing more stock items, bigger tires, paint work, different hoods, roll bars, major suspension mods...becoming more track-race only. I believe from here out, competitive adrenlin and the classification / rulebook pushed the rest into " Third Period" glass panels and tubbed rear, custom painted, showcars or caged race cars. It's easy to put a time frame on Day 2 parts, but what about the time frame of the build? Is it really Day 2 or Month 2?

From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index....

I believe there are a lot of great Day 2 cars out there. Lot's of time frames and transitions to enjoy.......Honor the period and stay away from Summit! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

BIG </div></div>

Excellent comments. I think Day 2 is limited to basic bolt-on mods. Probably better if you have a cutoff for all mods at 1971 or so, as mentioned earlier. That way, the 65 Chevelle Z16 can race the 69 Chevelle L78 and have more of an apples to apples comparison.

I think this has merit as an actual racing class, but for that to be feasible, you need to keep the rules simple, reasonable, fair, and somewhat easy to enforce. Hence the limit on the more in-depth modifications.

Thanks

Scott

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 05:22 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pxtx</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 68l30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

From a competition standpoint, can a Day 2 1965 build race a Day 2 1970 build and not be handicaped? Cubic inchs aside, "period correct" aftermarket parts dramaticly improved. What "phase" of Day 2 would line up with what? Class and index....

BIG </div></div>

Hard to bottle it all up, but if you could create a compitition similar to what was happening in an unclassified way on the streets of the USA during the Muscle Car era- that would be magical. Fastest Street Car Shoot-Out circa 1969! </div></div>

You nailed it. That's the basic premise.

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 05:25 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 442w30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shouldn't we look at cars that were built by the factory to be Day 2 cars?

Not everything in the showroom ran well stock. Boss 429 comes to mind. What else?

- 1968-69 W30
- 1970 W30 4-speed
- 1968-70 W31?????

Do you agree with the above? What else would you add?

</div></div>

Boss '9 cars are interesting, aren't they? I don't think they would be super competitive in this format. Cam and exhaust would help, but I don't know if they have enough hp to overcome all the weight on the front end.

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 05:27 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Schonyenko2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 cents worth. Being from the 60s/70's the biggest issues for winning street races was getting traction, and breathing. A L78 Nova with factory E70 tires from the factory would be dead meat running a stock 340 duster/cuda with L60's and a good gear. Cam changes, and motor internals usually happened after you got your ass handed to you by some dick wad mouth runner. It was a natural progression like Big said. Day 2 started with the big three. Headers, Big meats and wheels, and slapper bars. The rest depended on your testosterone level, money, and traffic arrest record.

I do miss those days. </div></div>

Excellent comments. That would be real easy if you wanted something that really complements the PS cars and allows owners to change to Day 2 format in an hour or two.

earntaz

09-06-2016, 02:58 PM

old5.0

09-06-2016, 04:39 PM

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 06:40 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif </div></div>

Thanks, Taz. It would have made a great Day 2 427 car but now it has subframe connectors, cage, minitub, and the shock towers have been "massaged" a bit...

Here's my current Fairlane - 66 GT convt. with 428/4 sp. Looks stock, but has been breathed on a bit...

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/66%20Fairlane%20Convt/DSCN0270_zpsvsptfuof.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/66%20Fairlane%20Convt/DSCN0270_zpsvsptfuof.jpg.html)

bulletpruf

09-06-2016, 07:06 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

Love that Fairlane. I had a Lime Gold 67 500XL with a Cleveland/Toploader setup for power. Miss it every day.

On the Mustang, yeah, the 71 gives up some weight to the 68. But them heads though. Im picturing a 71 coupe with Edelbrock intake, three barrel Holley, 2 inch primary headers, and a massive GK solid roller. I'm a die hard Windsor guy, but there's no arguing with the canted-valve stuff when it's breathing right. Using modern speed parts the inline valve wedge stuff can compete. Using only old school stuff? I dunno.

Boss 429? Ive ridden in true Day 2 Boss '9 and its a face-melter. They'll run if done right. Problem with the Ford Hemi stuff is paying the tab. </div></div>

'67 sounds like it was a sweet ride.

Boss 9 or 71 CJ 429 work best in FAST cars. With a relatively inexpensive stroker kit and a good OEM block, you can get close to 600 cubes. You're constrained by factory intake (ported of course), carb (massaged extensively), and exhaust manifolds (extrude honed), but you can still make some serious power and torque. A few years ago someone with a 429 CJ Mustang was the first person in the 9's in a F.A.S.T. car.

71 Sportsroof weights are around 3,650 for a 429 car; not great, but not as bad as you would think. Had 375 hp and 450 ft/lbs to move it around. Looks like around 3,300 lbs for a 68 CJ Mustang, with the 428 rated at 335 hp/440 ft lbs. I'm still going with the 68 as the better car, but I think it's close.

Scott

earntaz

09-06-2016, 08:54 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif </div></div>

Thanks, Taz. It would have made a great Day 2 427 car but now it has subframe connectors, cage, minitub, and the shock towers have been "massaged" a bit...

Here's my current Fairlane - 66 GT convt. with 428/4 sp. Looks stock, but has been breathed on a bit...

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/66%20Fairlane%20Convt/DSCN0270_zpsvsptfuof.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/66%20Fairlane%20Convt/DSCN0270_zpsvsptfuof.jpg.html)</div></div>

Now you guys are really dragging out the classics ... COOL!!! TAZ

CanCOPO

09-06-2016, 09:05 PM

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/09/full-11052-48561-img_3783_xl.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/09/full-11052-48563-img_3771_xl.jpg
The Pontiac I just purchased from Tony (Scuncio)is a great day two car. Badged as the original 6 cyl it has all the goodies.

Pat_Dilling

09-06-2016, 11:14 PM

I was cruisin' the streets of Omaha in my Biscayne in 71-72 and there were some pretty fast cars. Several that I remember were a 69 (might have been a 68) Mustang 428 CobraJet, headers, deep gears, traction bars and pretty fat tires. Another was a 70 Z-28, 4 speed, headers, Lakewood bars, 5.13-1 gears and Drag 500 cheater slicks. He used to stalk big block cars. There was a 69 Chevelle, that looking back now I realize might have been a COPO car because it was definitely an L72. He also had headers and good tires for the day. There was also an L78 4 speed Nova real deep gear car that was jacked way up in the back for big tires, but he still had traction problems. There were some faster cars that were past Day 2, but these were the ones I remember the young workin' guys had.

old5.0

09-06-2016, 11:34 PM

If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

EZ Nova

09-06-2016, 11:46 PM

396/427 Vega!

EZ Nova

09-06-2016, 11:47 PM

Who says what's "DAY 2"? That will be the issue! Once a heads up class comes around, $$$$ fly out the window faster then smoke in a Cheek and Chong movie.

68l30

09-07-2016, 12:31 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif </div></div>

One of my most memorable street races was against a 351 Maverick, Boss stripes and all.....He opened his header dumps at a light and it was go time. Side by side up to 110-120 thru town at about midnight on a Fri or Sat night. This was on a four lane section of US 42 in a retail area. Young and dumb, but man was that fun!

BIG

napa68

09-07-2016, 01:12 AM

Jimmy Addison's Silver Bullet would be a cool discussion.

Day 2,3,4..........

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/napa68/jimmy%20addison_zpshw5jsszj.jpg (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/napa68/media/jimmy%20addison_zpshw5jsszj.jpg.html)

bulletpruf

09-07-2016, 05:27 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=old5.0]Day 2 Ford? If you're dead set on only using original speed parts, 71 Mustang coupe, 429 SCJ, 4 speed, 4.30 Detroit. The 385 stuff came along too late to really make an impact back then, but pound for pound, I'll put that stagger valve SCJ notch up against any Hemi E-Body, Ram Air Bird, ZL-1 Camaro <span style="font-style: italic">or</span> FE powered production Ford. </div></div>

Let me preface this by saying I loves me some 385's. I had a 796 hp 514 in my 67 Fairlane and it was a BEAST. However, I think you give up too much in a 71 Mustang -- a bit on the heavy side, and that 429 is a heavy lump. Same thing hinders the 351 Boss, IMO -- awesome engine, but car is too heavy.

Here's my old '67 -- not really Day 2, but still one of my favorite cars.

Some Mustangs (not all) are like south ends -- everyone has one. NOW that Fairlane -- that is a beauty and not all that common. Looks evil!! TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif </div></div>

Thanks, Taz. It would have made a great Day 2 427 car but now it has subframe connectors, cage, minitub, and the shock towers have been "massaged" a bit...

Here's my current Fairlane - 66 GT convt. with 428/4 sp. Looks stock, but has been breathed on a bit...
</div></div>

Now you guys are really dragging out the classics ... COOL!!! TAZ </div></div>

Thanks, Taz. It's been sitting in storage, 90% done, for 3 years. Uncle Sam sent me to Korea for a 2 year tour followed by a 3 year tour in Italy. I'll finish it when I return from Italy.

bulletpruf

09-07-2016, 05:34 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat_Dilling</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was cruisin' the streets of Omaha in my Biscayne in 71-72 and there were some pretty fast cars. Several that I remember were a 69 (might have been a 68) Mustang 428 CobraJet, headers, deep gears, traction bars and pretty fat tires. Another was a 70 Z-28, 4 speed, headers, Lakewood bars, 5.13-1 gears and Drag 500 cheater slicks. He used to stalk big block cars. There was a 69 Chevelle, that looking back now I realize might have been a COPO car because it was definitely an L72. He also had headers and good tires for the day. There was also an L78 4 speed Nova real deep gear car that was jacked way up in the back for big tires, but he still had traction problems. There were some faster cars that were past Day 2, but these were the ones I remember the young workin' guys had. </div></div>

I was born in '68, so I'm a bit too young to have seen street races between true Day 2 cars. Having said that, sounds like a fun scene in Omaha, albeit with a few too many Chevy's <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif Thanks for the input.

Scott

bulletpruf

09-07-2016, 05:40 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanCOPO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Pontiac I just purchased from Tony (Scuncio)is a great day two car. Badged as the original 6 cyl it has all the goodies. </div></div>

I think I would consider that to be more of a modern-ish sleeper, given eddy heads and wheels... Somewhat similar to my 68 GTO convt -- just looks like a nice cruiser, but the 400 is actually a built 462, ported iron heads, Cliff Ruggles tweaked Q-Jet, Performer RPM intake, headers, Continental converter, 3.90 gear, etc. Should dip into the 11's with traction.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/68%20Lemans%20Convertible/DSCN2492_zpsqn9q5ds8.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/68%20Lemans%20Convertible/DSCN2492_zpsqn9q5ds8.jpg.html)

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/68%20Lemans%20Convertible/DSCN2504_zpslufnxevv.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/68%20Lemans%20Convertible/DSCN2504_zpslufnxevv.jpg.html)

Needs a bit of detailing and cleaning under the hood, and a stock appearing air cleaner.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/sd_walters/Cars/68%20Lemans%20Convertible/DSCN0363_zpsl8pnkxig.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/sd_walters/media/Cars/68%20Lemans%20Convertible/DSCN0363_zpsl8pnkxig.jpg.html)

bulletpruf

09-07-2016, 05:57 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif </div></div>

That would be FUN! About 2900 lbs, right? Great engine, too.

Which brings me to my next point - if you were going to break this into different classes, what would it look like? Day 2 has different meanings to different folks, but there are a few different levels.

1. Day 0 - not a real class, but you start off with the same rules as Pure Stock Drags, so the PSD folks can easily run the below classes.

2. Day 2 - larger tires allowed, but no slicks. Larger wheels, too, of course. Slapper bars allowed. Headers allowed, along with free-flowing exhaust (limited to 2.5" and mufflers that were available from '64-'71?).

3. Day 3 - Period correct slicks allowed. Gears can be deeper than what was factory available. Shift kits ok for auto trans and aftermarket shifters (period correct) for manual trans. Aftermarket cams ok as long as it's a grind available from 64-71. Period correct intake, ignition, and carb upgrades ok, but no holes in the hood. No machine work (porting, etc) on heads or short block. No body mods, no mini-tubs, no aftermarket hood scoops. Open headers ok.

4. Day 4 - Engine swaps allowed, but only something available from 64-71. Body mods allowed. Hood scoops allowed. Engine machine work allowed. Rear-end swaps allowed. Removing weight (back seat, etc), allowed. Hole in the hood allowed. Tunnel rams ok.

What did I miss?

bulletpruf

09-07-2016, 05:58 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: napa68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jimmy Addison's Silver Bullet would be a cool discussion.

Day 2,3,4..........

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b437/napa68/jimmy%20addison_zpshw5jsszj.jpg (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/napa68/media/jimmy%20addison_zpshw5jsszj.jpg.html)
</div></div>

I've heard of the car, but not too familiar with it. Can you or someone else share the details?

Big Block Bill

09-07-2016, 11:53 AM

It was a factory supported bench test for Chrysler back in the day. One of the most famous Hemi's ever to roam the streets of Detroit. VERY cool car, one of my favorite Mopar's

Bill

Billohio

09-07-2016, 01:14 PM

Got this off another site. 487-cubic-inch Hemi V-8 under the super stock hood scoop was equipped with a 4.25" stroker crankshaft, oversize TRW pistons, Racer Brown camshaft, 10-quart oil pan and aluminum cylinder heads. Fuel was delivered to the twin Holley four-barrel carburetors via a Stewart Warner electric fuel pump, while Hooker headers directed exhaust to the four '68 Cadillac mufflers through 3" pipes. Transfer of power to the M&H drag slicks at the rear was achieved with a modified Torqueflite automatic transmission, while compliant front shock absorbers teamed with super stock rear springs to achieve the desired rearward weight transfer. The "Bullet" in full street trim could cover the quarter mile in 10.50 seconds at a speed of 132 mph.

old5.0

09-07-2016, 01:24 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif </div></div>

That would be FUN! About 2900 lbs, right? Great engine, too.

Which brings me to my next point - if you were going to break this into different classes, what would it look like? Day 2 has different meanings to different folks, but there are a few different levels.

1. Day 0 - not a real class, but you start off with the same rules as Pure Stock Drags, so the PSD folks can easily run the below classes.

2. Day 2 - larger tires allowed, but no slicks. Larger wheels, too, of course. Slapper bars allowed. Headers allowed, along with free-flowing exhaust (limited to 2.5" and mufflers that were available from '64-'71?).

3. Day 3 - Period correct slicks allowed. Gears can be deeper than what was factory available. Shift kits ok for auto trans and aftermarket shifters (period correct) for manual trans. Aftermarket cams ok as long as it's a grind available from 64-71. Period correct intake, ignition, and carb upgrades ok, but no holes in the hood. No machine work (porting, etc) on heads or short block. No body mods, no mini-tubs, no aftermarket hood scoops. Open headers ok.

4. Day 4 - Engine swaps allowed, but only something available from 64-71. Body mods allowed. Hood scoops allowed. Engine machine work allowed. Rear-end swaps allowed. Removing weight (back seat, etc), allowed. Hole in the hood allowed. Tunnel rams ok.

What did I miss? </div></div>

My thinking is similar to yours. I've always thought of Day 2 as something like Pure Stock + slicks and headers.

The problem is that everyone's definition is going to vary. For example, I know of an 84 Hurst/Olds that was bought new and immediately driven home from the dealership and "re-powered" with a 350 out of a 70 W-31 Cutlass. I know 1984 is outside the timeframe we're discussing, but it does illustrate the fact that there's going to be serious disagreement over what constitutes true Day 2.

The other problem is creating unstoppable combinations (like my cousin's 351C powered 71 Pinto, for example). Making swaps "Day 4" helps, but it's still a tough one. The streets are pretty tough these days, but with a 1971 cutoff for speed parts, cars like the Cleveland Pinto mentioned above turn into class killers. His car is basically a circa-mid 70's Pro Stocker with a license plate, and while I firmly believe in the old adage "there's always someone faster", there's no doubt a 351 Pinto is going to be near the top of the food chain.

I dunno, I'm just thinking out loud.

bulletpruf

09-08-2016, 04:00 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Billohio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got this off another site. 487-cubic-inch Hemi V-8 under the super stock hood scoop was equipped with a 4.25" stroker crankshaft, oversize TRW pistons, Racer Brown camshaft, 10-quart oil pan and aluminum cylinder heads. Fuel was delivered to the twin Holley four-barrel carburetors via a Stewart Warner electric fuel pump, while Hooker headers directed exhaust to the four '68 Cadillac mufflers through 3" pipes. Transfer of power to the M&H drag slicks at the rear was achieved with a modified Torqueflite automatic transmission, while compliant front shock absorbers teamed with super stock rear springs to achieve the desired rearward weight transfer. The "Bullet" in full street trim could cover the quarter mile in 10.50 seconds at a speed of 132 mph. </div></div>

Definitely a Day 4 car.

bulletpruf

09-08-2016, 04:05 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If engine swaps are allowed I want a Boss 351 Maverick. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif </div></div>

That would be FUN! About 2900 lbs, right? Great engine, too.

Which brings me to my next point - if you were going to break this into different classes, what would it look like? Day 2 has different meanings to different folks, but there are a few different levels.

1. Day 0 - not a real class, but you start off with the same rules as Pure Stock Drags, so the PSD folks can easily run the below classes.

2. Day 2 - larger tires allowed, but no slicks. Larger wheels, too, of course. Slapper bars allowed. Headers allowed, along with free-flowing exhaust (limited to 2.5" and mufflers that were available from '64-'71?).

3. Day 3 - Period correct slicks allowed. Gears can be deeper than what was factory available. Shift kits ok for auto trans and aftermarket shifters (period correct) for manual trans. Aftermarket cams ok as long as it's a grind available from 64-71. Period correct intake, ignition, and carb upgrades ok, but no holes in the hood. No machine work (porting, etc) on heads or short block. No body mods, no mini-tubs, no aftermarket hood scoops. Open headers ok.

4. Day 4 - Engine swaps allowed, but only something available from 64-71. Body mods allowed. Hood scoops allowed. Engine machine work allowed. Rear-end swaps allowed. Removing weight (back seat, etc), allowed. Hole in the hood allowed. Tunnel rams ok.

What did I miss? </div></div>

My thinking is similar to yours. I've always thought of Day 2 as something like Pure Stock + slicks and headers.

The problem is that everyone's definition is going to vary. For example, I know of an 84 Hurst/Olds that was bought new and immediately driven home from the dealership and "re-powered" with a 350 out of a 70 W-31 Cutlass. I know 1984 is outside the timeframe we're discussing, but it does illustrate the fact that there's going to be serious disagreement over what constitutes true Day 2.

The other problem is creating unstoppable combinations (like my cousin's 351C powered 71 Pinto, for example). Making swaps "Day 4" helps, but it's still a tough one. The streets are pretty tough these days, but with a 1971 cutoff for speed parts, cars like the Cleveland Pinto mentioned above turn into class killers. His car is basically a circa-mid 70's Pro Stocker with a license plate, and while I firmly believe in the old adage "there's always someone faster", there's no doubt a 351 Pinto is going to be near the top of the food chain.

I dunno, I'm just thinking out loud. </div></div>

Everyone's definition of Day 2 will indeed be different. But once you agree on a set of rules, that's what you have to work with.

351C in a Pinto would indeed but tough to beat, but I don't think it would necessarily rule the roost. Lots of other combo's out there with a lightweight car to start with -- Vega, Chevy II, Maverick, etc.

DW31S

09-08-2016, 10:22 AM

Addison's Mopar had backing from Chrysler so while a cool beast, I can't really throw that car into this discussion. Possibly the baddest street car ever (in OUR terms of street car; not the silly Hot Rod magazine thing), but hardly attainable by the average Joe.
And so far BIG has made the most profound statement of this discussion......Stay away from Summit!!!

PLATINUM6BBL

09-08-2016, 12:28 PM

'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car.

EZ Nova

09-08-2016, 04:11 PM

Like I said earlier, BB Vega with "period" parts will be the car to beat! Motion had a 454 Vega "offered" in 1970/1971 before "the man" stopped them.

So you start with what could be an 800+Hp BBc into a Vega? Then there are so many other factors that 99% of the people never think of? But guys like myself and my friend, when it comes to heads up racing, go that extra to get ever .001" of a second? So what happens when you got a guy that has THE WILL, THE DOLLARS AND THE SMARTS to do whatever it takes to be the top dog. My friend, Butch Kemp is a perfect example. NA10.5 or Ultra Street SB ON MOTOR that can run 4.72 LAST YEAR. He does whatever it takes to make sure that he has done his homework and prepared to the best of his ability once that car come to the line.

We also had another guy. His DAD wanted to run 8.90 INDEX in the local series. He went out and bought him a CURRENT NHRA Pro Stock roller from Kenny Kuretsky and a new 572 GM crate motor. $75,000.00 ROLLER to run 8.90 and win $1,000.00??? 2 weeks before he got the roller, Kenny was running it in Pro Stock.

Heads up will also be a very tough and therefore expensive class, not matter what people say. And the more rules, the more the cost goes up.

old5.0

09-08-2016, 05:40 PM

I'll see your 454 Vega and raise you a 494 Can Am Boss Pinto. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

Heads up gets out of control quick.

bulletpruf

09-08-2016, 05:44 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car. </div></div>

Were these production cars that came off the assembly line or were they farmed out? Curious to hear if they are legal in Pure Stock, too. Did a quick Google search and didn't get a definitive answer.

Thanks

bulletpruf

09-08-2016, 05:46 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EZ Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like I said earlier, BB Vega with "period" parts will be the car to beat! Motion had a 454 Vega "offered" in 1970/1971 before "the man" stopped them.

So you start with what could be an 800+Hp BBc into a Vega? Then there are so many other factors that 99% of the people never think of? But guys like myself and my friend, when it comes to heads up racing, go that extra to get ever .001" of a second? So what happens when you got a guy that has THE WILL, THE DOLLARS AND THE SMARTS to do whatever it takes to be the top dog. My friend, Butch Kemp is a perfect example. NA10.5 or Ultra Street SB ON MOTOR that can run 4.72 LAST YEAR. He does whatever it takes to make sure that he has done his homework and prepared to the best of his ability once that car come to the line.

We also had another guy. His DAD wanted to run 8.90 INDEX in the local series. He went out and bought him a CURRENT NHRA Pro Stock roller from Kenny Kuretsky and a new 572 GM crate motor. $75,000.00 ROLLER to run 8.90 and win $1,000.00??? 2 weeks before he got the roller, Kenny was running it in Pro Stock.

Heads up will also be a very tough and therefore expensive class, not matter what people say. And the more rules, the more the cost goes up. </div></div>

The good thing about it is that anyone who can afford a Pure Stock Drags car should be able to race in Day 2 and Day 3 with a modest outlay of cash. Being competitive in Day 4 could be expensive, but it sure would be fun to watch!

bulletpruf

09-08-2016, 05:49 PM

PLATINUM6BBL

09-08-2016, 09:38 PM

Was a line built car and not farmed out. If you were well read in the magazines back in the day you could go to your local Mopar dealer and order one w/o having to be a "factory" driver. The issue on these cars is the term "header" instead of manifold. "Headers" are not allowed in Pure Stock or FAST. The first 3" of these manifolds are cast iron with tubular pipes put into them. Since the factory called them "headers" in the literature they have not been allowed to race. Here's what they look like - http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/291827185622?item=291827185622&vectorid=229466&rmv SB=true
Moparts post on them - http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/595348/1964-hemi-hardtops.html
Texas teen 64 Hemi - http://akudanquran.com/news/The-Texas-Te...Racing-History/ (http://akudanquran.com/news/The-Texas-Teenager-is-Reunited-with-1964-Max-Wedge-and-Hemi-Plymouths-that-made-Drag-Racing-History/)
Thing of beauty or nightmares? - https://www.google.com/search?q=a864+hemi+exhaust+manifold&start=10&sa=N& rlz=1C1QJDB_enUS633US633&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=923&t bm=isch&imgil=arMZnvUZqygsHM%253A%253Bj3r0nL069FAz jM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.highdefforum.c om%25252Fcar-forum%25252F115098-muscle-cars-1962-1972-a-179.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=arMZnvUZqygsHM%253A%25 2Cj3r0nL069FAzjM%252C_&usg=__0kAWtJdfpUq1pD_DM01-_3BUR6M%3D&dpr=1&ved=0ahUKEwic_a733IDPAhXGZCYKHbal AlA4ChDKNwhK&ei=n9nRV9yxJcbJmQG2y4qABQ#imgrc=arMZn vUZqygsHM%3A

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car. </div></div>

Were these production cars that came off the assembly line or were they farmed out? Curious to hear if they are legal in Pure Stock, too. Did a quick Google search and didn't get a definitive answer.

Thanks </div></div>

PLATINUM6BBL

09-08-2016, 09:45 PM

Marvin Hughes 64 Hemi Dodge video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ts6-qOglPg - this thing is a beast!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car. </div></div>

Were these production cars that came off the assembly line or were they farmed out? Curious to hear if they are legal in Pure Stock, too. Did a quick Google search and didn't get a definitive answer.

Thanks </div></div>

bulletpruf

09-09-2016, 04:56 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was a line built car and not farmed out. If you were well read in the magazines back in the day you could go to your local Mopar dealer and order one w/o having to be a "factory" driver. The issue on these cars is the term "header" instead of manifold. "Headers" are not allowed in Pure Stock or FAST. The first 3" of these manifolds are cast iron with tubular pipes put into them. Since the factory called them "headers" in the literature they have not been allowed to race. Here's what they look like - http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/291827185622?item=291827185622&vectorid=229466&rmv SB=true
Moparts post on them - http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/595348/1964-hemi-hardtops.html
Texas teen 64 Hemi - http://akudanquran.com/news/The-Texas-Te...Racing-History/ (http://akudanquran.com/news/The-Texas-Teenager-is-Reunited-with-1964-Max-Wedge-and-Hemi-Plymouths-that-made-Drag-Racing-History/)
Thing of beauty or nightmares? - https://www.google.com/search?q=a864+hemi+exhaust+manifold&start=10&sa=N& rlz=1C1QJDB_enUS633US633&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=923&t bm=isch&imgil=arMZnvUZqygsHM%253A%253Bj3r0nL069FAz jM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.highdefforum.c om%25252Fcar-forum%25252F115098-muscle-cars-1962-1972-a-179.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=arMZnvUZqygsHM%253A%25 2Cj3r0nL069FAzjM%252C_&usg=__0kAWtJdfpUq1pD_DM01-_3BUR6M%3D&dpr=1&ved=0ahUKEwic_a733IDPAhXGZCYKHbal AlA4ChDKNwhK&ei=n9nRV9yxJcbJmQG2y4qABQ#imgrc=arMZn vUZqygsHM%3A

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">'64 A864 street Hemi aluminum nose sedan from either Plymouth or Dodge if you're talking strictly Day 2 mods of shifter / shift kit and the 3 T's - tach / tires / tune. They already had 4.56 gears. Take off 4-bolts to uncap the factory "manifold's" and in the right hands would be a hard to beat car. </div></div>

Were these production cars that came off the assembly line or were they farmed out? Curious to hear if they are legal in Pure Stock, too. Did a quick Google search and didn't get a definitive answer.

Thanks </div></div> </div></div>

Thanks for posting the details. Very interesting on the headers; have never seen anything like those.

Scott

EZ Nova

09-09-2016, 01:37 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll see your 454 Vega and raise you a 494 Can Am Boss Pinto. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

Heads up gets out of control quick. </div></div>

And raise you with a Can Am version 480+CI of BBC ZL-! in that same little Vega. Now with only what was available say upto 1971, the BBc would win simply because there wasn't much aftermarket for the big old BOSS!

EZ Nova

09-09-2016, 01:40 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bulletpruf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The good thing about it is that anyone who can afford a Pure Stock Drags car should be able to race in Day 2 and Day 3 with a modest outlay of cash. Being competitive in Day 4 could be expensive, but it sure would be fun to watch!
</div></div>

The Day 2/3 stuff can get pricey too! IE F.A.S.T. style of cars are FAR from "inexpensive"!

Would be fun to try something though!!!!

ANDY M

09-10-2016, 09:07 PM

OK Since I'm an old geezer who grew up in the Detroit area and actually wasted some of my youth on Woodward Ave. I will toss in my 2 cents.
JMHO but the origin of "Day 2" is some 16 year old kid buying his first used car and then trying to make it go faster with as little cash as possible.
These cars were called "HOT RODS". The concept of buying an old beater and then adding your own mods, thus causing your old beater to lose its status as a stock car goes back to the late 1940's, and goes on to today.
Day 2 could be any car with parts from Jegs or Summit bolted on.
Guys with cash have been building sleepers for generations. Just look at what kids are doing to Honda Civics or any other cheep car that can be modified with aftermarket parts.
When the gas crisis hit in 1974, big block cars were getting crushed like the Lions with less than two minutes to play. There are so many ways to modify a car that the "bracket racer" is the only fair way to race. Run what you brung, give yourself a tenth, and don't be a sandbagger.
Also, in my wasted youth street racing was done from a roll, not from a dig. Hard to do at a track. (Just saying) <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif
OK, please return to the regularly scheduled rants.
Andy <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

bulletpruf

09-12-2016, 05:08 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ANDY M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK Since I'm an old geezer who grew up in the Detroit area and actually wasted some of my youth on Woodward Ave. I will toss in my 2 cents.
JMHO but the origin of "Day 2" is some 16 year old kid buying his first used car and then trying to make it go faster with as little cash as possible.
These cars were called "HOT RODS". The concept of buying an old beater and then adding your own mods, thus causing your old beater to lose its status as a stock car goes back to the late 1940's, and goes on to today.
Day 2 could be any car with parts from Jegs or Summit bolted on.
Guys with cash have been building sleepers for generations. Just look at what kids are doing to Honda Civics or any other cheep car that can be modified with aftermarket parts.
When the gas crisis hit in 1974, big block cars were getting crushed like the Lions with less than two minutes to play. There are so many ways to modify a car that the "bracket racer" is the only fair way to race. Run what you brung, give yourself a tenth, and don't be a sandbagger.
Also, in my wasted youth street racing was done from a roll, not from a dig. Hard to do at a track. (Just saying) <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif
OK, please return to the regularly scheduled rants.
Andy <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif </div></div>

Andy -

Thanks for the input. I believe the common understanding is that Day 2 is what you did to your new musclecar the day after (hence the Day 2 moniker) you brought it home from the dealership.

As I mentioned earlier, I think we know from Pure Stock Drags racing and old magazine articles (although some cars had some "special" factory prep) what cars were fast in factory configuration. What I'm curious about is what were the fastest cars on the street with the usual modifications from that era - headers, sticky tires, carb/intake/cam, etc.?

For example -- if you take a car with horrible exhaust (and lousy performance in PS Drags), like the 66-67 Fairlane 427 cars and just add headers, how much does that wake it up? Or something like a 66 Chevy II with an L79 -- how deep into the 12's can you get it with sticky tires, better cam, headers, etc?

I'm sure Woodward Ave was quite interesting -- what were some of the faster cars on Woodward back in the day?

Thanks

Scott

old5.0

09-17-2016, 06:53 PM

Day 2 bump! Let's talk more about this Day 2 race. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

old5.0

09-17-2016, 06:59 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EZ Nova</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: old5.0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll see your 454 Vega and raise you a 494 Can Am Boss Pinto. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

Heads up gets out of control quick. </div></div>

And raise you with a Can Am version 480+CI of BBC ZL-! in that same little Vega. Now with only what was available say upto 1971, the BBc would win simply because there wasn't much aftermarket for the big old BOSS! </div></div>

I dunno about all that, brother. Aftermarket, maybe not, but there was plenty of NASCAR take-off and MuscleParts stuff floating around back then. Most of it just wasn't legal in class or viable on a street car. Boss '9 Mustangs may have gotten a reputation (undeserved, IMO) as slugs in stock form, but no circa-1970 BBC head is gonna move air like a Shotgun. Now give those heads 500 cubes in an 1800 pound chassis with wall-to-wall tire, and all the cam, compression and carb I care to throw at it? That ZL-1's gonna have a tough row to hoe.

Now we just need the Krysler Krew to show up with a 500 cube Hemi Colt and we got a race!