1969 corvette with "motion" ad ons ????

[John]

.... You guys need to check this out... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

1969 Corvette .... &quot;Baldwin Motion &quot; ???? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Corvette-Base-Coupe-2-Door-/131930232063?forcerrptr=true&amp;hash=item1eb7a794ff:g :sq0AAOSwFV9Xzdsv&amp;item=131930232063)

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Way cool!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif
~ Pete

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Subject VIN 194379S736554
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http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/09/full-2506-48545-image.jpg
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[John]

.... Did this sell 15 minutes after I posted it here <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[JoeC]

back window modifications look a lot different then the other 1969 Motion GTs

[olredalert]

----Fathom Green/green vinyl from the factory. Not the most pleasant combo IMHO! Probably prompted the Motion like features. I say Motion like as only a few look typical to other known Motion Vettes.......Bill S

[Craig_Maiorana]

Looks like charger tail lights... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/sick.gif

[livettes]

I remember seeing this car on Ebay a few months back. I think it had a $4,500.00 starting bid and if I remember right it did not receive a bid. I know it did not have nearly as optimistic description of the Motion connection for that auction. It sure did a lot better this time.
Jamie

[luzl78]

with that paint scheme someone has to remember that car.

[Tarrytown SS427s]

I'm surprised the seller didn't get the NCRS dealer info on it.

[robber6910]

Just a lot of assumptions. Doesn't Joel Rosen still authenticate BM's?

[scuncio]

Being flipped for 4x the sale price by its new owner:

http://ebay.to/2dDTgV3

[JoeC]

ad does not mention any documentation

the new ad says

&quot;&quot;(((Notice the Poe's Garage sticker on the windshield,,,,,,,Poe's Garage is located on the same street as Motion Performance!)))

In 1974 the car was also placed in storage with 17,020 Original Miles within walking distance of Motion Perforomance! in the Bronx NY,&quot;&quot;



according to the Motion history online Joel R started in Brooklyn, NY then

&quot;In 1966, Rosen incorporated as Motion Performance, Inc. and relocated to his own shop at 598 Sunrise Highway, Baldwin, NY.&quot;


a search on &quot;Poe's Garage &quot; shows

Poe Garages Auto Repair Shop
2432 Grand Concourse,
Bronx, NY 10458


the decal on the car says &quot;Poe Garages Inc parking permit &quot;

search also shows a Poe Garage parking garage on 800 N. Ashley Dr. Tampa. FL

[Craig_Maiorana]

That ad is laughable .... It seems everything in the list has to have &quot;Motion&quot; in front of it. I think this guy should have the car authenticated before he starts tossing that around. I think a motion-esque look is what they were after, but this story is riddled with inconsistencies <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif

[John]

... still going on <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[scuncio]

Sold for $31k, amazing.

[livettes]

That car did not get a bid with a $4500.00 starting point the first time it was on Ebay...... But that auction had a honest description. Very sad.
Jamie

[scuncio]

Yep...the power of spin. Total bs.

[TimG]

That was one hot car in the 70's I bet. Not much going for it now with engine gone, custom work and no paperwork. I would have loved to have seen it at its prime.....

[supercomp 8.90]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1481-50463-70_corvette_mako_shrk_dv_13_us
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1481-50464-rpvet2.jpg
later style motion rear window?

[JoeC]

the red car looks similar but not the same although its hard to say from the pictures but
ebay car looks to have a larger radius corners in the window and over all shape looks different.

Some of the modifications on the ebay car do look like they came from MP.

[scuncio]

Here's a different car with a much more candid and honest description...

http://ebay.to/2fn0Anz

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QVgAAOSwcUBYF-CJ/s-l1600.jpg

[68vet427]

Looks like a nice project.

[iluv69s]

I was looking at Joel's letter... does he actually have any paperwork from back then?? It seems that only the cars that the owner already has paperwork get certified....are there any cars that have been certified where Joel had the paperwork and not the owner of the car ???

[Charley Lillard]

As I recall Joel has boxes of paperwork that he has to sift thru whenever looking to document a car.

[iluv69s]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I recall Joel has boxes of paperwork that he has to sift thru whenever looking to document a car. </div></div>

Not that I an questioning your recollection Charley, but based on my limited conversations with Joel...and what I have seen regarding cars that he has and has not documented, I don't believe he has much paperwork on the vehicles that he worked on.(I may be wrong)...jmho

I'd really like to see one example of a car that he documented using HIS paperwork and not the car owner's.

[JoeC]

Joel had all the paperwork on the 2 cars I bought from him. They are 1980s cars but he did save all the 15 yr old paperwork on them.

When I bought the cars from him, he was in the process of moving from NY to FL. I went to his home and he was selling off some items and had boxes of old stuff. The box my paperwork was in was from the 1980s but he opened another box and was 1960s stuff in there, he pulled out an old time slip and gave it to me. It is for an 11 sec pass in a 1969 Corvette at Atco Dragway. He sold me some old tee shirts, Jackets, decals, signs, and other items from the 60s 70s and 80s.

He had another box with copies of old original pictures from the 1960s from when he was working on a project with Ertl Models.

Some of the old photos were taken by Marty Schorr for Cars Magazine.

Joel had Ertl make some of the models to the original pictures.

He gave me a photo of the 1968 Motion Chevelle race car.

I was told back in the 1980s when people were hunting down Motion cars, Joel was working with a private investigator who helped find original owners that Joel had the names of. Some cars were found and in some cases the cars were long gone but the original owners still had paperwork and pictures and gave it to Joel.

There were other ways where Joel was able to get some original paperwork and put it with known cars and some paperwork was found but the cars were not found.

[iluv69s]

So, in conclusion, Joel definitely had the paperwork on his two 80's cars that he still owned when he sold them..and he has a ton of old memorabilia and old photos that Marty Schorr and others took and accumulated over the years.. and he has some paperwork that owners have given him...

This does not convince me that he actually has saved old paperwork(actual invoices or documentation) from when Motion was actually in it's heyday .. ( maybe I am wrong)

Has anyone received any actual paperwork on a 60's or early 70's car 'from Joel' that he saved all these years or has any car been certified by Joel that was not already known or the current owner did not have their own paperwork?? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[resto4u]

In the past there has been a car that had no paper work available, then car is sold and it gets paper work from joel. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[JoeC]

I can not speak for Joel or Marty but they have said in the past, that some old paperwork was found on some of the old cars.

There were, of course, far more potential Motion cars where nothing was found.

They never said there was a list of vins or a lot of info found but one interesting story is in the Motion book Marty wrote that Joel found the 1970 yellow Phase III GT after a 5 year search that started in 1985 , it changed hands a few times, was painted black, found in Minnesota, but had the correct VIN . This is on page 138 and 139 of the Motion book.

In a SuperChevy article on same car, Marty writes &quot;Rosen was able to supply the car's original paperwork including customer invoice and shop orders, insuring the restoration would be totally accurate&quot;

I don't know what exactly was found on the old cars but I don't find it hard to believe that at least some info was found.

Here are a few reasons why ,
Joel had the same home and same shop in LI NY from the mid 1960s into the 1990s,
Marty worked in the automotive publishing business from the mid 1960's to present,
when you talk to them in person, they can recall many small details and stories ,
I have seen for myself that they both saved items from back in the day,
I know some documentation was found by collectors because Joel supplied original owners names on some cars,
Joel helped collectors like Otis Chandler find top level documented cars in the 1980s,
Joel bought back some cars, and other reasons.

SuperChevy article on the yellow 1970 Phase III GT

http://www.superchevy.com/features/vemp-0212-history-of-baldwin-motion-corvettes/


article on Marty's blog &quot;Car Guy Chronicles&quot; with some info on Otis's cars and finding other cars and original pictures

http://www.carguychronicles.com/2011/12/427-camaro-chevelle-baldwin-motion.html#more

[iluv69s]

Thanks Joe ! Apparently there are some old 'actual' records In Joel's possession.

[JoeC]

noticed in Marty's book under &quot;Acknowledgments&quot; he thanked Joel and his wife for &quot;endless hours digging through old files&quot; .

There is a lot of info in Marty's Motion book that I had not seen before and I have been collecting Motion articles since the 1970's.

I was looking at other on-line articles but they don't always say exactly how the car was documented.

In some cases Joel has documented cars after he inspected them.

In the case of the 1972 Motion Moray GT Corvette it was built using two Motion kits and still had some of the paint on it Motion used. I don't know if paperwork was found on it but with a one off car like that I think an inspection by Joel with his letter is pretty iron clad documentation. In that case the &quot;old files&quot; may just be Joel's memory of building it.

http://www.corvetteonline.com/news/motion-moray-gt-up-for-grabs-on-ebay-for-half-a-million-bucks/

[scuncio]

FYI, apparently any C3 with flares and sidepipes is now a possible Motion car:

1972 Corvette Possible Motion Car (http://ebay.to/2i3whDu)

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/HkcAAOSwHMJYMIZB/s-l1600.jpg

[Dave Rifkin]

I don't think that car has any ties to Motion except maybe some items purchased through their catalog such as the gas cap.

[olredalert]

----I think that the rear spoiler was an old Ralph Eckler part back when he was still in Illinois......Bill S

[earntaz]

I don't think that is the right door mirror either -- angle appears to be way off ... TAZ