Well, this sux. So much for my 502...

[HawkX66]

As usual, a deal that is too good to be true is... So there were a few things that weren't adding up on my new motor after I pulled the cam to replace it with a cam with a fuel pump lobe. I decided to pull a head to verify a few things for myself and not trust what the builder told my friend. It turns out, everything internal is basically stock GM otc rebuild truck crap. 2.09/1.72 valves, not 2.19/1.88. The cam lift I measured to be ~.462/.462. Yes, that's after multiplying it by the 1.7 rocker ratio... Stock 4.250 stroke so it's a 494ci, not a 502 or 508. I'm out of my mind right now. I do believe my friend didn't know. I'm ready to give the whole thing back, but he offered to set me up with some good aluminum heads and a brand new Howard or Lunati cam of my choice from the "builder". The lower end all looks brand new and it's a seriously beefy 4 bolt main, 489ci. .020 over.
The only thing I'm worried about is that I have flat top pistons. Most aluminum heads have 110-120cc chamber volume. I don't think that would work with flat tops no matter their volume for compression would it?
Considering it's "only" $2,500 for what will end up being a good motor with a little more of my labor, what would you do? I'm thinking the smart thing to do is give them a chance to make it right. What about the pistons though?

Current pistons:

https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5685/30382615094_a22a9fd845_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NhNQXh)

New double roller:

<a href="https://flic.kr/p/NT1KYv" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5597/30769700553_b6ac4e680b_b.jpg

Lower end:

[url=https://flic.kr/p/Nj4zV6]https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5827/30396807683_4d2d1c31f1_b.jpg</a>

[MosportGreen66]

Dave, here is my take on the situation. Having worldly experience in getting lied to about engine internals, the only way you're going to get exactly what you want is to do it right yourself. The builder in this situation has yet to deliver on his word and I wouldn't trust him going further regardless of his promises. There are plenty of good guys on this forum who can help with procuring, sourcing and engineering an action plan to make your motor build happen. Look to the good guys for help.

Dan

[earntaz]

Dave -- I don't know what intake you will be running but if you were to use the Edelbrock alum heads with the 100 CC (approx) chamber your compression would come up some -- flat tops are not a bad deal if matched with the right head.

Have to agree with Dan -- it really sucks when you're lead down the primrose path ... TAZ

[427TJ]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, here is my take on the situation. Having worldly experience in getting lied to about engine internals, the only way you're going to get exactly what you want is to do it right yourself. The builder in this situation has yet to deliver on his word and I wouldn't trust him going further regardless of his promises. There are plenty of good guys on this forum who can help with procuring, sourcing and engineering an action plan to make your motor build happen. Look to the good guys for help.

Dan </div></div>

All due respect, I got screwed by a forum member on an engine that I took his word on. As Ronald Reagan said, &quot;Trust but verify.&quot;

[scuncio]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427TJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, here is my take on the situation. Having worldly experience in getting lied to about engine internals, the only way you're going to get exactly what you want is to do it right yourself. The builder in this situation has yet to deliver on his word and I wouldn't trust him going further regardless of his promises. There are plenty of good guys on this forum who can help with procuring, sourcing and engineering an action plan to make your motor build happen. Look to the good guys for help.

Dan </div></div>

All due respect, I got screwed by a forum member on an engine that I took his word on. As Ronald Reagan said, &quot;Trust but verify.&quot; </div></div>

As did I...uncool.

[RST]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, here is my take on the situation. Having worldly experience in getting lied to about engine internals, the only way you're going to get exactly what you want is to do it right yourself. The builder in this situation has yet to deliver on his word and I wouldn't trust him going further regardless of his promises. There are plenty of good guys on this forum who can help with procuring, sourcing and engineering an action plan to make your motor build happen. Look to the good guys for help.

Dan</div></div>

Plus 2 ............ if they will take the motor back that is the best bet. Start fresh and build exactly what you want .......... no mater what you do, you will never be happy with this motor.

Just my two cents ........ good luck.

[earntaz]

AGREE ^^^^^^^^^

[MosportGreen66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scuncio</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427TJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, here is my take on the situation. Having worldly experience in getting lied to about engine internals, the only way you're going to get exactly what you want is to do it right yourself. The builder in this situation has yet to deliver on his word and I wouldn't trust him going further regardless of his promises. There are plenty of good guys on this forum who can help with procuring, sourcing and engineering an action plan to make your motor build happen. Look to the good guys for help.

Dan </div></div>

All due respect, I got screwed by a forum member on an engine that I took his word on. As Ronald Reagan said, &quot;Trust but verify.&quot; </div></div>

As did I...uncool. </div></div>

As did I. Shame of it, the POS still posts here. Nonetheless, the forum members I was referencing above are quality with outstanding reputations. I do not want to turn this into a bashing session nor will I let it. I stand by my response - start from scratch, seek to involve good guys wit references to back up builds.

Dan

[ban617]

What block did they use ? 454 ? Or 8.1 cause the 8.1 was a 496 stock I believe?

[Kurt S]

If you are picking out the heads and they are supplying them, then staying the path seem reasonable.
Assuming you are fine with putting it together. I don't think I'd trust the builder more than that....

[ds1]

I bought an engine off Ebay 3 years ago. The guy knew nothing about engine except what he was told. Turned out to be a stock built 454 with a junk crank in it out of a 502. For the first time in my life it almost came to litigation. I pushed for a year but got my money back. I still have the papers in my truck filled out. Sorry ,but it would go back to the seller.

[HawkX66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, here is my take on the situation. Having worldly experience in getting lied to about engine internals, the only way you're going to get exactly what you want is to do it right yourself. The builder in this situation has yet to deliver on his word and I wouldn't trust him going further regardless of his promises. There are plenty of good guys on this forum who can help with procuring, sourcing and engineering an action plan to make your motor build happen. Look to the good guys for help.

Dan</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave -- I don't know what intake you will be running but if you were to use the Edelbrock alum heads with the 100 CC (approx) chamber your compression would come up some -- flat tops are not a bad deal if matched with the right head.
Have to agree with Dan -- it really sucks when you're lead down the primrose path ... TAZ</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ban617</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What block did they use ? 454 ? Or 8.1 cause the 8.1 was a 496 stock I believe?</div></div> 8.0L 489ci. bored .020 to 494ci.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are picking out the heads and they are supplying them, then staying the path seem reasonable.
Assuming you are fine with putting it together. I don't think I'd trust the builder more than that....</div></div>

Thanks a lot for the responses guys. Yes, ideally I would have started with a fresh block, ordered the crank, rods, pistons etc etc that I wanted for the perfect build. That just wasn't realistic for me right now. Cost was and is a factor.
I did some thinking about it and you're right, the builder doesn't deserve trust or a second chance. Unfortunately I have a friend that's a middle man that I do want to give a chance to make it right. He's arranged for the heads and cam. I'm not dealing directly with the builder. Good thing because this story would have a very different ending... I now know what the bottom end is, so I'm not going in blind. Heads are easy to check out off a motor and the new cam is what it is.
As long as the heads are what they're supposed to be and the cam is spec'd to what I told him, I don't think I can go wrong still. I really don't think I could come close to building a big cubic inch motor for $2,500.00 like this is costing me. I've already put a lot of time into this making brackets etc. It's nothing to throw a cam and heads at it at this point.

[earntaz]

For peace of mind (if it were mine) I'd tear it down and recheck everything -- I don't see time is an issue here, so better safe than sorry ... TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[HawkX66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For peace of mind (if it were mine) I'd tear it down and recheck everything -- I don't see time is an issue here, so better safe than sorry ... TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif </div></div>
I'm probably going to end up throwing some pistons in it, so everything will get measured and re-torqued when I do that. I suspect that the crank has never been out of it since the factory. It's a 2015 block, so it can't have much for miles on it. I do want to check it out though.
Thanks.

[novadude]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For peace of mind (if it were mine) I'd tear it down and recheck everything -- I don't see time is an issue here, so better safe than sorry ... TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif </div></div>

This, for sure!!! Imagine how mad you'll be if you go though all this and find that clearances are wrong and it eats a bearing, or a ring is upside down, etc, etc

[HawkX66]

Things seem to be working out well with this. The only thing I'll have to buy is a new intake. I think I'm in pretty good shape now. After getting a quote of about $850 for custom pistons, I said forget that. I would definitely bore it .010&quot; over to 4.31&quot; and use 496ci off the shelf pistons before I did that, but I'm not doing either.
I've got everything locked down now and I'm glad I kept my patience and waited. Not an easy thing for me to do... The 502 heads I'm getting are the factory 502ci 934 heads. They will be gone through, set up and milled by a machine shop before I get them in a few days which I don't have to pay for. 2.19/1.88 valves and I'll have them cut down to 108cc. I thought that was a pretty good even number and it'll give me decent compression.
Along with the heads I'll be receiving the full Lunati cam kit with new rollers, and springs that will get installed and set up by the machine shop. A new double roller timing set comes with the kit also.
Here are the cam specs as recommended by Lunati:

Kit #:20110713LK

292/300
241/[email protected]
.625/.625
110 LSA

I took all my specs and punched them into a compression calculator and came up with 9.8:1 which I'm plenty happy about as long as there will be enough piston to valve clearance. I can't imagine there won't be at 9.8:1 and .011&quot; piston to deck height. The cam is pretty high lift, so I'll have to measure it when I get it in there. I hate having to wait for that measurement. What if taking .050&quot; off the head is too much? I'd have to get a different cam...
Now the question will be, will it fit under my hood or will I have to cut open my spare flat hood? I hope I can get it to squeeze under my stock hood. I think it will. It should only end up ~5/8&quot; higher than my stock 396.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/1/475/30869593953_b8ecae91d9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/P2QJNv)

[ss427copo]

My .02 cents?
Give it all back to him and get your money. I have never again trusted an &quot;oh, I'll fix that&quot;. He wasn't forthright and you shouldn't trust that. Imagine getting in your ride and it grenades? Then, you have a pile of shit and no recourse. Give it back.