Added value of good documentation?

[Verne_Frantz]

Two identical hi-perf cars. They both appear correct in every way. One has real documentation; the other has none. How much added value does the one with the docs have?

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[marxjunk]

UP TO $10K IS WHAT IVE NOTICED..maybe more on something really really rare..people love paper work and are willing to pay for it

pm me your complete address Verne..i have some 409 stuff i want ya to have...

[scott s]

Orig docs(not fake or repo ones) are like $$$$ in the bank in my opinion,unless its in survivor condition and is a no brainer ill always take the car with docs, any of these highly desirable cars can be faked and as iam sure u know alot are....

[njsteve]

If it is a car that can only be proven to be genuine, with real paperwork and owners that can be traced back to day one, maybe 100% of the value, if not more.

[NorCam]

One more reason I like Cdn cars is that the builds can be verified with GM microfiche. Add additional original sales paper and/or proof of ownership and you have bulletproof provenance for a given car. I think good original paper adds 20% to a car and sometimes more depending on the build, options and ownership chain.

Definitely makes more appealing when it comes time to sell over that of a comparable car I think.

[SuperNovaSS]

These days I assume a car is fake until proven otherwise. Stampings, documentation, owner history, etc all paint a picture. The value added really depends on the car. A 6 cylinder Camaro, cool factor. A L78, 100 percent or mre for all of the above versus nothing.


Jason

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

The value is one aspect, but the car is so much more fun:-) Just knowing all the docs are with a car makes the whole experience better:-)

Ryan

[Verne_Frantz]

Thanks for the opinions fellows. I never would have thought 100% increase. But if 98% of similar cars are clones, I guess that might make sense.

Verne

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marxjunk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">UP TO $10K IS WHAT IVE NOTICED..maybe more on something really really rare..people love paper work and are willing to pay for it

pm me your complete address Verne..i have some 409 stuff i want ya to have... </div></div>

Woo Woooo! You have a PM
Verne

[jl8z28]

I have a 69 Z 28 with the original window sticker dealer invoice pro Tec O plate original title mso first registration all kinds of receipts and everything is real I would think I could get 15 to20 grand more than one with nothing

[enio45]

If a car has no paperwork - but has a certified inspection by a reputable person that certifies orig drivetrain and parts etc - what does that do for value?

[njsteve]

And what about the cars like W30 and LS6 ragtops, they REALLY drop in value without bulletproof paperwork.

[NorCam]

Not to open a can of worms here Eddie, but I also side with the fact that a reputable inspector can be fooled? I know of one particular car that was closely inspected and given clean bill of health as 100% original and real after being scrutinized by a said expert. I happen to know that particular car had significant changes made when it was restored and no longer take any expert inspections verbatim.

To me, an expert inspection is better performed with legitimate paperwork in accompaniment. If it's a pedigree car, one helps to put the other in check. Add a full ownership trail to the mix and you have a winner.

[Steve Shauger]

To me GM documentation is icing on the cake, however the pedigree of a car isn't proven by a piece of paper itself. Many cars are &quot;built&quot; around the paperwork. Does it add value yes, but the car itself should be able to prove it's legitimacy by all it's components, finishes and history.

[WILMASBOYL78]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paceme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To me GM documentation is icing on the cake, however the pedigree of a car isn't proven by a piece of paper itself. Many cars are &quot;built&quot; around the paperwork. Does it add value yes, but the car itself should be able to prove it's legitimacy by all it's components, finishes and history.


</div></div>

x2 <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

-wilma

[enio45]

i agree that people can be fooled, even the best inspectors......especailly when the car is all assembled.

i also agree, the whole picture of the car should support its authenticity as well.

just wanted to get a perspective on this.....

[TimG]

If the original motor is gone but the car has paperwork, that means quite a bit. You know the stories of someone dropping the tank of a Corvette and finding paperwork showing it was an L88.
In some cases, the paperwork is worth more that the car.
Paperwork always adds value, the rarer the car, the more the value.

[m22mike]

So in the case of my 69 Camaro L78 , nom correct coded JH, Block, born with M22 and 4.10 , x66, 10 10 . Real car, 11 Ohio titles. No paper, just the NCRS dealer record.
Question. How do you value the Car with the M22 as the only real proof that it is a
L78 car ?

Thanks Mike

[cook_dw]

Mike, probably only worth a few grand.. When do I need to head that way and get it out of your way?? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

[m22mike]

All you need is a pile of cash. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

Mike

[Verne_Frantz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paceme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To me GM documentation is icing on the cake, however the pedigree of a car isn't proven by a piece of paper itself. Many cars are &quot;built&quot; around the paperwork. Does it add value yes, but the car itself should be able to prove it's legitimacy by all it's components, finishes and history.
</div></div>

This is why I believe there is a need for an &quot;expert&quot; opinion by someone who is known to be able to authenticate an original block stamp from a restamp (as well as many other clues the car has to offer.) This the final verification that the car still has it's born with components that the paperwork describes.

Verne

[scott s]

I think as long as orig docs,photos,owner history etc prove its a real car ie:l78, ls6, l79,l88,z28,copo,yenko,ss, r/s etc etc,most people are willing to invest the $$$ into it to restore with satisfaction even if the drivetrain is long gone because they know it was a special car and worth the return not just a run of the mill piece. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[Salvatore]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m22mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So in the case of my 69 Camaro L78 , nom correct coded JH, Block, born with M22 and 4.10 , x66, 10 10 . Real car, 11 Ohio titles. No paper, just the NCRS dealer record.
Question. How do you value the Car with the M22 as the only real proof that it is a
L78 car ?

Thanks Mike
</div></div>

Sounds like my Z/28 Mike. NOM, correct dated block with original M21 and 4.10 gear. Its a Berger car (I assume) with the rear &quot;BY BERGER&quot; emblem also BUT a non X code car and no records from NCRS. Was never frame offed so may be easier to tell.

[bergy]

Good discussion. Our SYC registry includes the 3 components of docs: 1. Ownership history, 2. GM/dealer paperwork, and 3. Certification.

Lots of fake paperwork out there - it's much harder to fake ownership history (with current contact info). Unfortunately, many of the old owners have passed on, so notarized statements are important also.

IMO - the value of really rare cars without any of the 3 components falls off of a cliff.

Now a &quot;plug&quot; for our registry - get your supercars REGISTERED &amp; make sure that the information is current!!!!

[ANDY M]

Bergy, my car is registered, but other than that I have no paperwork. I am not looking to sell my car yet, and I would not send it to an auction, so what kind of &quot;certification&quot; would I need? I've owned the car for over 22 years, and in that time no one has ever told me it wasn't a COPO, but is that proof that it's a real car and not a fake?

[Stefano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paceme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To me GM documentation is icing on the cake, however the pedigree of a car isn't proven by a piece of paper itself. Many cars are &quot;built&quot; around the paperwork. Does it add value yes, but the car itself should be able to prove it's legitimacy by all it's components, finishes and history.


</div></div>


True that.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good discussion. Our SYC registry includes the 3 components of docs: 1. Ownership history, 2. GM/dealer paperwork, and 3. Certification.

Lots of fake paperwork out there - it's much harder to fake ownership history (with current contact info). Unfortunately, many of the old owners have passed on, so notarized statements are important also.

IMO - the value of really rare cars without any of the 3 components falls off of a cliff.

Now a &quot;plug&quot; for our registry - get your supercars REGISTERED &amp; make sure that the information is current!!!! </div></div>

I agree with &quot;Bergy&quot; Three EZ steps to bulletproof documentation. All three steps are important.

1: Ownership History

2: GM/Dealer Paperwork

3: Certification

I have all three but my car doesn't run, is it valuable? :-)

Ryan

[bergy]

PM sent to Andy