WIW - 69Z Hugger Orange w/Orange Houndstooth Int

[enio45]

My best friend from high school and i back in 73 each bought our first 69 Camaro

Mine was a 69 RS SS 350 4sp - fathom green car and his was this 69Z HO with HO houndstooth interior.

He still has his car and we are trying to get a value of it....here are the good and bad of the car...

Still has the car all these yrs, orig trans and rear, fresh paint, new interior, i believe new quarters and floor pans installed about 4 yrs ago. No paperwork (looking for protect-plate) , trim tag say 08A i believe, D80 car, flat hood. Desireable color and interior combo. Console car as well.

The bad - NOM - now has a strong 350 CI, I think corvette rally's, rear stripe painted wrong on the spoiler,
wrong steering wheel (has some after market wood wheel) , firewall has been smoothed, trim tag removed and reinstalled. All i can think of for now.....my friend does not care about originality as you can see, he made it his car, as evident with the long ownership.

It is hard for me to value this as most people (me included) like the originality of the car, and the trim tag creates an issue IMO. I know the car personally so i know it is a real Z. We may have some pics back in 73 when he and i bought our cars.

Looks nice, drives nice, needs nothing as a driver - but with the above items - WIW??

Thanks for your thoughts.....

[enio45]

One point of clarification - the trim tag was taken off when the firewall was smoothed over about 3-4 yrs ago while it was going thru a repaint and black out under the hood/engine compartment. Prior to that the trim tag was never messed with .

[442w30]

Orange houndstooth is very rare in a non-pace car, no?

[enio45]

i don't know.....maybe same like yellow and yellow houndstooth combo??

[cook_dw]

Yes its rare for it not to be a pc.. Without seeing pics Im gonna guess $40k at this point..

[sixt9rsx33]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cook_dw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes its rare for it not to be a pc.. Without seeing pics Im gonna guess $40k at this point.. </div></div>

This is so subjective because of all the mods to the car. For me it would be market value for NOM z less smooth firewall and all the other issues with the car. The smooth firewall for me would be a deal killer but again just so subjective depending on who you are talking to.

[enio45]

How much damage do you think the firewall smoothing and the trim tag removal impact the value of a true Z?

[markinnaples]

I agree that the firewall smoothing and TT removal would make it an issue if I was looking for a real Z and considering paying real Z money for it. IMHO, I'd say it would make a 20% reduction, but that's me.

[NorCam]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: enio45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much damage do you think the firewall smoothing and the trim tag removal impact the value of a true Z? </div></div>

Tons!!!

It instantly takes any credibility away from the car since an untouched trim tag at least validates the car to some degree. IMO, the only thing that's going to provide any provenance to the car now is for him to produce the original bill of sale along with the pop and decades worth of pictures to show he's had it from new.

[Tracker1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NorCam</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: enio45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much damage do you think the firewall smoothing and the trim tag removal impact the value of a true Z? </div></div>

Tons!!!

It instantly takes any credibility away from the car since an untouched trim tag at least validates the car to some degree. IMO, the only thing that's going to provide any provenance to the car now is for him to produce the original bill of sale along with the pop and decades worth of pictures to show he's had it from new. </div></div>

My car is in the same boat, BUT it is a Canadian GM documented car and the hidden VIN stamps are correct and undisturbed where they are supposed to be.

[enio45]

All the hidden vins are there and correct - no issue there.......

Have to look for the pop and the pictures to help validate this, but I'm sure there will still be an impact to the price - due to the removal and smoothing.

I have a call with him tomorrow to see what else i can learn about the car.....and possible historical data

Not a good situation when selling the car - unless someone wants a nice running 69 camaro - HO and ready to drive....which in my opinion puts the car int the 25-30K range.....not sure this is right - just a feel but need to talk to him tomorrow to see where he thinks it is at.

[cook_dw]

Oh shit.. I missed that the trim tag was removed and the firewall was smoothed.. Sorry.. Ignore my quesstimate..

[iluv69s]

Is the original trim tag still with the car? I think that makes a considerably difference!

[427freak]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iluv69s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the original trim tag still with the car? I think that makes a considerably difference! </div></div>

Here is what he wrote

firewall has been smoothed, trim tag removed and reinstalled. Hope that helps...

[enio45]

Thanks Dana - yes the orig trim tag is back on the car.....

[bbbentley]

Eddy, I would think a notarized letter of authenticity from you, since you know the car and a few old pictures would help tremendously ally any fears of it being real to a potential buyer?

Curiously, You say it is a flat hood car in your 1st post, &quot;...flat hood. Desireable color and interior combo.&quot;.
I have come to understand that the yellow and orange HT was offered later in the production year, perhaps after the flat hood period, but I will defer to those with more knowledge?

Documentation that is not &quot;official&quot;, like pics and a long ownership, should hold a lot of weight, IMO.
Pricing stuff ain't my strong suit.

[Stefano]

The ZL2 cowl hood option was never standard and only included on a fraction of Z28s from the factory.

[bbbentley]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ZL2 cowl hood option was never standard and only included on a fraction of Z28s from the factory. </div></div>

oops, my bad. thanks.

[bbbenny]

Correct me if I'm wrong! I read that 11% of all the 69 Z-28s, came from the factory with the ZL2 hood. BBBenny <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif

[Stefano]

That would qualify as a fraction <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

[Jonesy]

Its amazing how few cars were ordered with ZL2 after the option became available. It was advertised fairly well. All the Pace Cars had it and that was April May so alot of cars were made after that. In reference to the car in the original post, when you say smoothed the firewall, what exactly was smoothed? Was it dents or?? Got any pics of it. I guess value would depend on that and if you could get it back to normal. The tag being off isnt a big deal if you have the original. You have ownership history and old photos to prove its the real deal.

[William]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbbenny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct me if I'm wrong! I read that 11% of all the 69 Z-28s, came from the factory with the ZL2 hood. BBBenny <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif </div></div>

ZL2 as an option was installed on 10,026 '69 Camaros. About 4,000 of those were Z10s &amp; Z11s. The remaining 6,000 or so were divided up between Camaro SS and Z/28 production. At this time no one knows how many of each were built.

[Born30YrsLate]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbbenny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct me if I'm wrong! I read that 11% of all the 69 Z-28s, came from the factory with the ZL2 hood. BBBenny <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif </div></div>

ZL2 as an option was installed on 10,026 '69 Camaros. About 4,000 of those were Z10s &amp; Z11s. The remaining 6,000 or so were divided up between Camaro SS and Z/28 production. At this time no one knows how many of each were built. </div></div>

Could probably account for almost another 1000 to COPO specific.

[William]

ZL2 was standard equipment on COPOs and is not listed on COPO docs. When included with other features, such as CE1 Headlight Washers with RS, they were not included in option totals.

[enio45]

Firewall smoothed from what i understand was the seam on the firewall was smoothed over with bondo to remove the rough seam sealer....no damage was underneath - just one of those old school thinking back in the day that carried over to today.