Rebody Time - '68 L78 Camaro Firewall & Tags GM Canada Docs....

[scuncio]

Package deal.... Keep an eye out for this one a couple years down the road when it's all shiny and restored in rebodied glory.

1968 Camaro SS396/375 Firewall, Tags, Docs, etc.... (http://ebay.to/2pRxzbC)

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/u28AAOSwB-1YvDdc/s-l1600.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/brgAAOSwTM5YvDdQ/s-l1600.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/y1IAAOSwTuJYvDdL/s-l1600.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zwEAAOSwTuJYvDdY/s-l1600.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YlQAAOSw32lYvDdX/s-l1600.jpg

[scuncio]

On a lighter note, can anyone weigh in on the KD1 'AIR Delete' option? Trying to figure out whether my Canadian-sold, March-built L78 Camaro would have come with the smog system.

[Charley Lillard]

The low mile green 68 L78 that was at MCACN had the smog delete also.

[ds1]

Isn't that a "compact car"

[al8apex]

2nd attempt to sell this "car"

it was $750 more last time:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-camaro-SS-L78-4-speeds-/122426466894?hash=item1c812fa24e%3Ag%3AdcoAAOSwOgd YvDcr&nma=true&si=m7wF6x9BhEDXhFJfIgMqn1sVGog%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[cook_dw]

Thats a damn shame... http://www.hejbatka.cz/upload/lku8e32xrv.gif

[resto4u]

If he had the original engine and trans, it might be what he wants.

[cook_dw]

If anyone gets or finds out the vin please let me know. THANKS!

[Lee Stewart]

Package deal.... Not sure if this is legal - I suspect it isn't - but keep an eye out for this one a couple years down the road when it's all shiny and restored in rebodied glory.

In some states it can be legal as long as two things happen:

1. Local Police are notified that the car in question is a rebody (the one you created with a donor car) and you have to have both titles (clear - no Salvage titles): The "car" with the docs and the donor car. This results in the Police "destroying" the VIN of the donor car with the DMV.

2. Should you sell the restored car you must notify the purchaser that the car has had a rebody. Failure to do so can negate the sales contract along with additional legal headaches for the seller.

And in some states it is illegal. It is best to contact the DMV in your state BEFORE you bought a "car" like this Camaro and discuss it with them to see what the law allows.

[resto4u]

also keep in mind that he has not removed the vin#

[scuncio]

The low mile green 68 L78 that was at MCACN had the smog delete also.

Thanks Charley...I missed the show last year...does anyone remember the VIN?

[1967Z28]

I've seen Historic Trans-Am race cars resurrected from as much or less.

[ZL1.FUN]

At what point do you or don't you call it a re body? I have a few cars needing heavy restoration
One being a 70 camaro, That needs roof skin,floor pans quarters,trunk pan ,And rear frame rails.
But have the numbers engine ,rear and trans.
It has sat for years outside. Now if I pulled the trigger and started a restoration on it
I couldn't say it was all original, But I sure wouldn't call it a re body ? Feel free to chime in with opinions

[scuncio]

When you start with a firewall, you end up with a rebody. It's pretty subjective, but in this case, starting with virtually nothing except tags and a firewall makes it tough to say you've restored the original car and not recreated it. Semantics, maybe....

And just to be clear I'm glad cars like these are getting saved. I also think it's important for a future buyer to understand the history.

[69biscayne]

So how many owners does it take to go from:

"this is a rebody with NOS and reproduction parts and a donor car" To:
"this car is a survivor"

Steve

[Lee Stewart]

So how many owners does it take to go from:

"this is a rebody with NOS and reproduction parts and a donor car" To:
"this car is a survivor"

Steve

Once that statement has been made - that person is breaking the law and can be held accountable if he represents the rebodied car as a survivor in his effort to sell the car. He is liable for fraud.

If you owned a rebodied car and want to call it a survivor - go right ahead. You can call it anything you want because it's your possession.

[Lee Stewart]

When you start with a firewall, you end up with a rebody. It's pretty subjective, but in this case, starting with virtually nothing except tags and a firewall makes it tough to say you've restored the original car and not recreated it. Semantics, maybe....

And just to be clear I'm glad cars like these are getting saved. I also think it's important for a future buyer to understand the history.

No semantics involved. If you start with a firewall and drive train and add all the necessary metal parts to restore it back to what was once on a dealers showroom floor - that is a restored car. That is how the law looks at it . . . . sort of

But you can get into trouble in specific cases which one I will give an example: You bought the firewall with VIN tag of a 1967 L71 427 Corvette. You have to provide a frame and engine for the car. While the car is in the body shop being restored the police do a surprise raid on the shop because they suspect the shop of shady practises. They inspect your car. It now has 3 different VINs: Firewall, Engine and Frame. What they will do is have the DMV issue a new VIN and destroy the Chevrolet VIN located on the firewall and there is nothing you can do to prevent this. You now will have when finished a 1967 L71 427 Corvette with the VIN of NYS6543 (New York State+6543th car that the DMV has issued it's own VIN for). This exact thing happened in Syracuse New York.

But if you bring in a donor car and transfer (legally) the VIN tag from the firewall car to the donor car - that is a rebody. The same holds true for taking a donor car, cutting out the firewall and replacing it with what you purchased from the seller in the original post of this thread.

[L16pilot]

"At what point do you or don't you call it a re body?"

I've been involved in discussions on this topic more times than I care to remember and honestly believe there will never be a clear consensus. What is clear is the legality issues state to state and whether fraud/misrepresentation is committed for the purpose of profit.

Personally, I would rather buy a car that had been rebodied with a donor assembled in a GM factory with GM sheetmetal by GM employees in the year the car was produced....as long as it was disclosed fully it is a rebody...rather than a rusted out hulk pieced together using Taiwanese sheetmetal stamped two years ago and billed simply as a full restoration...but maybe that's just me.

I also find it interesting that in the world of aviation, every P-51/Spitfire airworthy today does not have the original engine, has had the majority of it's airframe replaced...at least once, and are often completely recreated around a data tag.....and no one cares.

[Billohio]

I had a new neighbor stop recently. He seen one of my cars out. He works for the Ohio Highway patrol and is in the stolen car division. He said they also look out for vin tags and stuff on craigslist and ebay in ohio. He had good stories. Recently they had an old mustang that was bought out of state and it was a shell. guy had it inspected and they found the title was off a cadillac. They looked deeper and the current owner said well I didnt pay the 2500 on the title I paid 8000. The car had been on the wall of a restaurant in maybe virginia and they talked to that guy and he said he sold it for parts to a guy with no title. They found out he sold it for like 10k to the middle man who faked the title. So they told the current owner and they said why would he lose money selling it to you. Then he confessed he really paid 12500! So he is now in trouble along with the guy he bought it from. And the car had no readable VIN and headed to the crusher! He said they had an old Corvette they crushed too. He was involved with the fake Z16 that was here too

[ZiggyL78]

Well.On a positive note.The rear is in nice shape:)

[Lee Stewart]

If you would like to learn more about VIN Fraud you can access this link. It has Federal and 7 States (OH, CA, PA, GA, VT, NY & WI) laws which cover VIN Fraud

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraud.shtml

[iluv69s]

My Zl-1 had only the original roof, windshield supports, trunk hinge area, cowl/door jamb areas and rockers worth saving. All the original stamped dates were on those parts. Car coud have been rebodied way easier than fixed, but I chose to fix. A real 69 Z-28 was donated to get an original tunnel, firewall, etc. All GM sheetmetal was then used to fix outer portions of car. So is this car really a rebody?

Assuming someone keeps this 68 firewall and does not touch VIN, cowl tags, numbers, etc. and replaces all other parts, would this be a rebody?


BTW, I hear my ZL-1 ended up getting rebodied anyway after I sold it...

[Lee Stewart]

My Zl-1 had only the original roof, windshield supports, trunk hinge area, cowl/door jamb areas and rockers worth saving. All the original stamped dates were on those parts. Car coud have been rebodied way easier than fixed, but I chose to fix. A real 69 Z-28 was donated to get an original tunnel, firewall, etc. All GM sheetmetal was then used to fix outer portions of car. So is this car really a rebody?

As long as you used the original Cowl Tag then no it was not a rebody

Assuming someone keeps this 68 firewall and does not touch VIN, cowl tags, numbers, etc. and replaces all other parts, would this be a rebody?

No - just an extensive restoration. A rebody is when you take a Cowl Tag and place in on a donor car which replaces the donor car's Cowl Tag. You then destroy the donor car's Cowl Tag (and title) and notify both the Police and DMV (if this procedure is legal in your state - in some states it isn't) what you have done so they can keep their records straight. You have to have clear titles to the Cowl Tag "car" and the donor car.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Sorry but gotta say not everyone here would agree to the above Rebody or not statements, myself included.
As much as outright tag-jumping from one body to the other is surely a rebody, those built from sections of more than one car may also be considered rebody cars too...regardless of original tags being reused whether removed/reaffixed or left untouched/attached to any grafted sections used.
Sorry again but there's no simple yes/no answer and each situation often very unique depending on what's been done, admitted/obscured.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[scuncio]

I have to agree with Andy - I'd be pretty pissed if I bought a car described as an "extensive restoration" that had started as a firewall and tags. Semantics maybe....

[DW31S]

My Zl-1 had only the original roof, windshield supports, trunk hinge area, cowl/door jamb areas and rockers worth saving. All the original stamped dates were on those parts. Car coud have been rebodied way easier than fixed, but I chose to fix. A real 69 Z-28 was donated to get an original tunnel, firewall, etc. All GM sheetmetal was then used to fix outer portions of car. So is this car really a rebody?

Assuming someone keeps this 68 firewall and does not touch VIN, cowl tags, numbers, etc. and replaces all other parts, would this be a rebody?


BTW, I hear my ZL-1 ended up getting rebodied anyway after I sold it...
Why?

[Starship]

At least the original documented bumper guards are there.