68 Firebird Ram Air 2..

[WILMASBOYL78]

I've been part of the discussion in the "for Sale' area about the 68 Ram Air GTO...had some more questions, but didn't want to hijack the car ad...so here goes.

From what I have read online the Ram Air 2 400 engine was available in the Firebird also...and a 4.30 rear was an option with the TH400 trans. I'm no expert on Pontiac stuff, but it would seem to me that these motors were probably under rated to begin with...and a 4.30 rear and the TH400, plus the Ram Air 2 motor must have made for a real running machine. I would imagine the usual hot rod items like headers, carb and dist mods along with tires and traction improvements would have made this combo hard to beat.

Does anyone have any performance stats or info from back in the day about this combo...seems to me it would give the L78 Camaros and Novas a good run for the money.

-wilma

[Lee Stewart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHWgosHeVJw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW7ueFNsioA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrvONgwd7v0

[NorCam]

Looks to me they could really hold their own on the strip with a mid 12 second run. Nice!

[Lee Stewart]

https://s26.postimg.org/6r5ghcga1/image.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/4zchmfwx1/)

https://s26.postimg.org/7upktb0x5/image.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/kyv55zsyt/)

https://s26.postimg.org/4p4z33iax/image.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/u7xbg41ut/)

https://s26.postimg.org/6uz9xllrd/image.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/c6e6ib7tx/)

HIGHLIGHTS

Late production build and 110 total made
1 of 98 M21 coupes built
Four owner California-built car
Current owner has kept since 2014
18 month subframe-off restoration completed in 2004 with under 600 miles since
Numbers matching, born with Ram Air II engine block, Ram Air II specific round port heads, and exhaust manifolds
M21 4-speed transmission
Engine was rebuilt to AMA specifications with an estimated 430 HP at the flywheel
3.90 Safe-T-Track rear
Dual exhaust
10.75 compression and original cam and valve specifications
Redline wide oval tires
Deluxe interior with bench seat, original dash and door panels
62,953 original miles
Correct rear, heads, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, carburetor and distributor
Verdoro Green with Black deluxe interior
Featured in Muscle Car Enthusiast September 2004 and Muscle Car Review June 2008
PHS documentation and owner history

This frame-off restored 1968 Pontiac Firebird Ram Air II is exceptionally rare. A late production example, it is one of a total of 110 built and one of 98 with the M21 close-ratio 4-speed. According to the Pontiac Historical Society, it is the one and only bench seat 4-speed Ram Air II ever built, making it a “One of One." Restored over 18 months between 2002 and 2004, it retains its factory-original matching-numbers WU L67 Ram Air II block, original RA II-specific round-port code 96 heads and matching exhaust manifolds. Rebuilt to AMA specifications, it maintains the correct 10.75:1 compression and original cam and valve specifications, generating an estimated 430 to 440 HP at the flywheel. It is as factory-equipped with the Muncie M21 4-speed transmission, 3.90:1 Safe-T-Track rear end, dual exhaust, Firestone Redline tires, Deluxe interior with extremely rare bench seat, tinted glass and AM radio. Despite its Plain-Jane appearance, this is a serious performer in the great Pontiac muscle tradition, capable of trailering the fiercest of its contemporaries. Featured in the September 2004 issue of Muscle Car Enthusiast and Muscle Car Review, June 2008, this four-owner ‘Bird has been with its present owner since 2014. Showing 62,000 original miles, it has been driven less than 600 miles since its restoration and remains in excellent condition. It is backed by PHS documentation, original Georgia license plate, ownership history, magazine articles including a May 1968 Super Stock and Drag Illustrated Magazine technical analysis. This car was special ordered as light as possible, with the highest horsepower available to Firebird owners in 1968. As one of only a very few left with original engine intact, it is also one of the most well known and documented Ram Air II cars in existence.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/AN1116-260975/1968-pontiac-firebird-ram-air-ii/

[StealthBird]

Very cool cars, very rare, very fast. These went into a sort of mythical status back in the 1980's when Jim and Frank Mino were kicking butt at Supercar Showdowns and Muscle Car Shootouts. At the time, most muscle car fans were unfamiliar with what a RAII was. It seemed like out of the clear blue, this mysterious little '68 Firebird was kicking the collective butts of Hemis and Chevelles, and there were accusations that it was really a stroker 400 or a disguised 455. Years later, as Mino's car maintained nearly the exact same ET's and MPH year after year (other makes and models mysteriously dipped into the 11's), Mino did a tear down to show that every single part in his engine was Pontiac. There was no deception, just excellent assembly, attention to detail, and of course the power of the RAII.

The 1969-1970 RAIV was a faster engine, but the 1968-1/2 RAII holds its weight and has become very collectible due to its rarity and sleeper image.

Mike

[frankk]

Don't think the Firebird would hold up to the L78. Back in the day the 351 Clevland and my brothers GTO 400 were no match for the L78 Chevelle.

[Astock]

Don't think the Firebird would hold up to the L78. Back in the day the 351 Clevland and my brothers GTO 400 were no match for the L78 Chevelle.

Never considered a stock 351 high perf. And the standard GTO 400 engine was comparable to a 396-325hp, 350 hp. The ra2 and 4 for Pontiac, was like the 375 hp hi perf 396.

[68 Vert]

Mino in '86... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4u9llY1h-4 For 40 years I've told my GF, now wife, that I would own one of these cars. Unfortunately, it will probably be a clone....

[Lee Stewart]

Don't think the Firebird would hold up to the L78. Back in the day the 351 Clevland and my brothers GTO 400 were no match for the L78 Chevelle.

Unlike the L78 396 which was just a big HP engine option the RAII was a package. For the Firebird the standard rear end was a 3.90 with a 4.33 as the only option. For the GTO it was the 4.33 only

The standard rear end for an L78 Chevelle, Camaro or Nova was 3.55

[Crush]

Would love to find one! My first car was a 68 firebird... not a RAII but it did have a 400!

[The Boss]

They don't often pop up - this one hasn't seen the light of day in decades.

[Crush]

They don't often pop up - this one hasn't seen the light of day in decades.

Very cool !! Is it yours?

[442w30]

Don't think the Firebird would hold up to the L78. Back in the day the 351 Clevland and my brothers GTO 400 were no match for the L78 Chevelle.

I'll pile on too – any L78 resting on its laurels will eventually eat crow.

[Tenney]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4408oyrkpFA

[Astock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4408oyrkpFA

Paul Suloff, from Akron days. Wonder if that's Brad Rising with the mic. I sold him my 1964 GTO for pure stock.
Thanks for posting the y-tube.

[The Boss]

Very cool !! Is it yours?

No, belongs to a long time friend.

Another Black one from Long Island popped up last year and is currently being finished - it's one of the few we've ever found with the optional rear gear.

[The Boss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4408oyrkpFA

That's a great video - I know all those guys (the Pontiac guys that is). :D

[Tenney]

Paul Suloff, from Akron days. Wonder if that's Brad Rising with the mic. I sold him my 1964 GTO for pure stock.
Thanks for posting the y-tube.

Paul was a Goodyear client when I was at JWT right around the time of this clip. Never had a chance to work w/him, though ...

[Tenney]

I know all those guys (the Pontiac guys that is). :D

Me, too - and they're still gettin' after it!

[njsteve]

I was at that Musclecar Nats race and the one in 1986. Those were the days.

Man, who are all those skinny kids? :-)

[The Boss]

I was at that Musclecar Nats race and the one in 1986. Those were the days.

Man, who are all those skinny kids? :-)

Jim Mino
Scott Tiemann
Dan Jensen

:D

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Local guy in Philadelphia has a real RAII 1968 Firebird convertible.

[The Boss]

Local guy in Philadelphia has a real RAII 1968 Firebird convertible.

Rick Mahoney - car was supposedly for sale at Carlisle before Rick bought it at the guys house. Happened to be looking at the car & realized it was a late build, called Jim to get the PHS on it to make sure it was a 400 car and Jim told him to make sure he bought it!

Here it is in Scott's shop and then getting loaded for last year's MCACN display with Rick's 69 TA Vert.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Rick Mahoney - car was supposedly for sale at Carlisle before Rick bought it at the guys house. Happened to be looking at the car & realized it was a late build, called Jim to get the PHS on it to make sure it was a 400 car and Jim told him to make sure he bought it!

Here it is in Scott's shop and then getting loaded for last year's MCACN display with Rick's 69 TA Vert.

This is another guy I know. Car isn't too well known amongst enthusiasts.

[Lee Stewart]

https://s26.postimg.org/rd2ls7re1/image.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/g0q0afip1/)

https://s26.postimg.org/52eqs8u3t/68_RAII.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/aql1j4yg5/)

https://s26.postimg.org/65yv47eqx/download_1.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/4qxafhdnp/)

[Crush]

Any 68's for sale that you know of?

[PhilS]

I recently bought the green Ram II in Lee Stewart's post and after driving it a bit I think the L78s are stronger. I love the round port Pontiacs but an L78 in an early Camaro is hard to beat.

[Charley Lillard]

Can I have it ?

[PhilS]

Yes of course, I'll price it very fairly.

[Tenney]

Rick Mahoney - car was supposedly for sale at Carlisle before Rick bought it at the guys house. Happened to be looking at the car & realized it was a late build, called Jim to get the PHS on it to make sure it was a 400 car and Jim told him to make sure he bought it!

Here it is in Scott's shop and then getting loaded for last year's MCACN display with Rick's 69 TA Vert.

Very cool! Looks like the Royal Swiss Cheese beside it ...?

[The Boss]

This is another guy I know. Car isn't too well known amongst enthusiasts.

Oh? That makes things interesting! Feel free to PM me the details.

I recently bought the green Ram II in Lee Stewart's post and after driving it a bit I think the L78s are stronger. I love the round port Pontiacs but an L78 in an early Camaro is hard to beat.

Phil, you bought Joe's duece? Very cool car with a great history - was it a package deal with his TA too?

[442w30]

Seems to me we will need to take an L78 and an L67 to the track for a comparison.

[PhilS]

I bought the car from the owner after Joe. I don't know where the TA went.

[PhilS]

That would be fun.

[L78racer]

I already did. I raced a couple of Ram Air II- one auto and one 4 spd with my L78/L89 4 spd and beat them both. Raced a '69 Firebird Ram Air IV 4 spd and beat that too. In the race with the black one my car had iron heads on the engine.

https://youtu.be/FaSBFtBa4xQ

[Crush]

Nice .. batting a 1,000!!

[Mr70]

Nice...Way to represent,L78racer. :burnout:

[442w30]

So who turned the fastest time?

[L78racer]

they did.

[442w30]

Phil, you need to come visit the Pure Stock Drags and see in person!

[PhilS]

I agree. I'm sure it's a great show.

[The Boss]

Once I get my GT-37 into the 12's I'll be there. Bucket list item for me.

[RJS]

I find this post so interesting, I always knew those Firebirds were special but not when I was a teenager. A guy around the block from me was selling one in 1975 or so and my buddy was trying to buy it. My buddy and him couldn't agree on price, the ask was $450 and the clutch was bad so my buddy would only go $400.
Anyone know of a Maroon 400 4 speed that came from Brooklyn???
Would love to find out if it was still alive and kicking.
Ron