Were 1980s cars really that bad?

[black69]

Read this ad, and ask if you remember it the way it was written! I do remember the show more than the go back then when the 80s hit. I do remember how girls dug my brothers T top transam when I borrowed it when he was traveling out of the country (mom looked the other way). How good your stereo sounded would be more impressive than how fast the car was to some passengers.

A fast 1980 camaro? That would mess with my memories...

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/d/blue-dragon-camaro-disco/6212007097.html

[Mr70]

The hey day for Fantastic plastic on cars & high hair on us.

[Lee Stewart]

If you call all show and no go "that bad" then the answer is . . . yes

[bbbentley]

80's? That bad? Yes, emphatically yes! The cars were lousy, the times (what we got away with) was great!!!

[XXXGoldL34M20]

Best car from the 80's
Grand National or GNX
They were fast enough!

[markinnaples]

Great ad.

[danachevroletfor1967]

I still own my bought new in July, 1978 Z28. I loved it then and still love it now. It was a great handling car for that time. I think it was "Car and Driver" that did a comparison test back in 1978 and rated the 1978 Camaro Z28 ahead of the same year Corvette and Trans-Am for driving pleasure. When you floor the accelerator it will still throw you back in the seat; it just runs out of oomph at about 85 mph. A great cruising car. I wasn't very successful picking up chicks with it back in the day. I actually think it gets more attention now than it did back in the late 70's and thru the 80's. Ahh the memories.

[markinnaples]

danachevroletfor1967, got any pics of your '78?

[drdave69]

I agree with all. With the exception of the turbo Buicks, the Mustang GT and the late 80's turbo Trans Am the cars were generally crap. But, the decade was a whole lot of fun (of what I remember).

[carnut4life]

That ad was hilarious! My mom bought a near new bright blue 81 Z28 in the fall of 83 when I was 11 years old, I thought it was the coolest car I'd ever seen at that time..lol.. The car was pretty quick back then for what it was and handled like it was on rails but compared to the 60's and 70's muscle cars I've owned since then(70 Chevelle SS 396, 71 Monte SS 454, 71 &72 Ta's, 69 COPO Camaro) it was a slug. Looking back I find it ironic how similar the 80-81 Z28's were to the 70-72 TA's(functional hood scoop, fender vents and spoilers everywhere), to bad they didn't run them though.

I've owned Mom's Z28 for 19 years now and am in the process of having the car restored for her 70th birthday later this year so she can see it looking like new and drive it again while she's still healthy and know I'll keep it as long as I live. It's the slowest, least desirable, highest production car I've ever owned but every time I look at it, it reminds me of my Mom and Dad and I consider the car to be a dear family member, I'm sure most of the people on this site understand.

[The Boss]

I graduated high school in 81, college in 85 and ordered my first new car - an IROC in February of 1987.

With Apatite for Destruction playing on the Kenwood pullout I was living large. :D

[Lee Stewart]

https://s26.postimg.org/t0p2qjcyx/1984_Camaro_Ad-02.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/drz5crjad/)

[Billohio]

I had a new 84 trans am with the H.O. engine. What a joke. The 86 GN was a good car with bad paint. I got mine used with a few miles on it and it had already been repainted. I later traded it off and the guy that bought it blew it up

[earntaz]

Not an 80 -- but I bought a new 79' Z28 and it was nothing but problems. It was high optioned with everything except cruise control and the alum wheels. The t-top seals were replaced twice, the carpet was replaced (turned a green color), the carb was replaced, the hood was repainted (you could see primer under the paint), etc. etc. etc. The local Chevy dealership had a key to the car -- I just dropped it off when crap went bad. Sold it with 21K on it ... :no:

[scott s]

answer is yes,,,,yes,,,yes,,,

[x77-69z28]

Yes!!!!

[Lynn]

I believe the low water mark was 1976. Yes, most bread and butter cars into the 80's were crap. Computer controlled carbs? What a joke. Like trying to put wheels on a horse. One technology did not go well with the other. Pontiac gave it a go for as long as they could. At least they kept the Trans Am name afloat, trying to get some performance out of the smogger motor. Chevy made some progress starting with the 77 Z/28, but both of them were really fighting an uphill battle. Apparently Ford and Mopar had given up on muscle by 76-77.

Road & Track ran an article on the fastest cars (as in observed top speed) in America, 1976. They hinted that it might be a pick up (454 Chevy, as the truck was the only vehicle available with a big block in 1976). I will dig up the article to make sure I get the numbers correct, but I believe it went something like this:

Corvette 126 mph
Chevy Truck with 454 121 mph
Mopar with a 360 dual exhaust (can't remember if it was a Duster, or what, but midsize car) 112 mph.
And the "mighty" Ford Mustang II with the "high performance" 302 topped out at 105 mph. (crap, I had a 70 Opel Rallye with a 1.9 4 banger that would top 105!!!)
Seems there was a 5th car in there, but can't remember what it was.
What a bunch of slugs. I probably should not have listed mph numbers, as my fuzzy memory surely got some of them (maybe all of them) incorrect. If anyone is intersted, I can dig out the old rag and look it up.

Mind you, this bunch of turds is what fueled the first muscle car craze, and is reason that as early as 1977 guys were craving a bit of nostalgia in the form of a car with real power. That is when a lot of our cars started being cared for.... many for the first time.

[novadude]

Computer controlled carbs? What a joke.

A CCC Q-jet worked very well and required minimal maintenance. The "dancing needle" concept they incorporated was pretty ingenious, given the technology of the time (in development in the late 1970s, released in 1980-1981).

It's easy to bash the 1980s cars looking through a 2017 window, but many of the 60s muscle cars weren't all that great either.

Don't forget that the 325hp 396 was a slug with the little 198 deg @ 0.050 cam and .398 lift, stock, as-delivered 302 Camaros weren't exactly fast, etc. The 1984 HO 305 in the ad above could give either one of these cars a good run. A '79 Z28 responds to typical heads / cam / exhaust bolt-ons just like the 2 examples above.

[Mr70]

In 1983,I bought a brand new 1984 Z-28 H.O.305 with the stereo equalizer,thought it was fast as hell with a good sound.
Then soon traded it in for an 1986 Iroc Tuned Port 305.Thought it was much,much faster and sounded a lot better.
Then traded it in for a 1989 Iroc 5.7 Tuned Port w/4 wheel disc and what an incredible world of difference that car was.
Made the other two feel like pedal cars,and it's BOSE stereo w/Amp had a crisp clear sound that could reach the moon.

[danachevroletfor1967]

That ad was hilarious! My mom bought a near new bright blue 81 Z28 in the fall of 83 when I was 11 years old, I thought it was the coolest car I'd ever seen at that time..lol.. The car was pretty quick back then for what it was and handled like it was on rails but compared to the 60's and 70's muscle cars I've owned since then(70 Chevelle SS 396, 71 Monte SS 454, 71 &72 Ta's, 69 COPO Camaro) it was a slug. Looking back I find it ironic how similar the 80-81 Z28's were to the 70-72 TA's(functional hood scoop, fender vents and spoilers everywhere), to bad they didn't run them though.

I've owned Mom's Z28 for 19 years now and am in the process of having the car restored for her 70th birthday later this year so she can see it looking like new and drive it again while she's still healthy and know I'll keep it as long as I live. It's the slowest, least desirable, highest production car I've ever owned but every time I look at it, it reminds me of my Mom and Dad and I consider the car to be a dear family member, I'm sure most of the people on this site understand.

I understand completely.

[danachevroletfor1967]

danachevroletfor1967, got any pics of your '78?

I do have some. I purchased the car new in July, 1978. It was probably one of the last '78 Camaros made as it is a 06E car, assembled in Van Nuys. It is pretty much all original, but I did have an IROC style front air dam installed in Jan., 1979.

[Eck]

Nice car. Had a 77 z and stilll have a 85 z, these cars get a bad wrap they were not neck breakers in a standing start but good on the highway and pretty dependable. I have had a lot of 60's on up mostly camaro vette nova and Monte's exception a GTO.
All had there good and bad. Old ones were fast newer ones were quick is what I like say.lol.

[markinnaples]

Nice, love the color of your 1978 Z.

[Lynn]

A CCC Q-jet worked very well and required minimal maintenance. The "dancing needle" concept they incorporated was pretty ingenious, given the technology of the time (in development in the late 1970s, released in 1980-1981).

It's easy to bash the 1980s cars looking through a 2017 window, but many of the 60s muscle cars weren't all that great either.

Don't forget that the 325hp 396 was a slug with the little 198 deg @ 0.050 cam and .398 lift, stock, as-delivered 302 Camaros weren't exactly fast, etc. The 1984 HO 305 in the ad above could give either one of these cars a good run. A '79 Z28 responds to typical heads / cam / exhaust bolt-ons just like the 2 examples above.

We may just have to agree to disagree on that. Yes, the dancing needle was ingenious, and it worked well... for about 18 months. The it turned to crap. I owned a small four bay independent shop in the 80's. I rebuilt one or two A DAY for several years. Most shops at the time wouldn't touch them. I don't understand why they didn't just bite the bullet and go to computer controlled fuel injection. The cost difference wasn't that huge. The computer (first c in ccc) was the biggest cost involved. They were just clinging to the old technology

You are absolutley correct about late 70's Z and espcially into the 80's. No doubt, they could keep up with most of the 60's muscle as delivered with bias ply tires.

[NorCam]

I worked at a large GM dealership in 1983 and drove a lot of the new cars that year. Of the Vette's, Camaro's, Monte's and Hurst Olds that came out in 83, the Monte was my second favorite car to drive...right next to the Old's Tornado which was a wicked car.

I drove a few buick's including the GNX and drove the owners Vette quite a lot. I was an 18 year old car jockey at the time.

[flyingn]

not all 80's cars were bad!

[70-SS/RS-L78]

Once the fuel crises hit driving the Radical Big Block Camaro as a daily driver was a bad idea so that was put in the garage and I brought my 77 TA with leaky T-Tops, Then I went through a bunch of different musclecars cause you could buy them all day long for 500-$1000. Then I found a Loaded White 80 T-top Z28 and I enjoyed the hell out of driving it. It wasn't a race car it was just a daily driver and that I enjoyed driving. Then I went out one morning and it was gone.. I found this one about 9 months ago and I had to have it, I dig driving it with the AC on and the T-Tops off. I was thinking about doing a LS swap but the car is so original I feel bad about doing it.. Frank thats a nice GN.. I had a GNX for a while and what a blast that was to drive.
Mark
https://s5.postimg.org/7mcrfxmfr/81_Z28-2.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/xunw5b6j7/)

[The Boss]

That your son's GN Frank? Nice car!

I had a 77 Formula that I bought in the spring of 1984 and promptly blew the motor. That summer the 69 YS out of my neighbor's GTO went into it and it was a proper car then. That got totaled in September of 86 and I ordered my IROC in February. Thanks to a couple of the guys on this board, I have it again! :D

[L16pilot]

Mark - darned near twins.

I bought this 80Z a little over a year ago. Stupid original with 77k original miles and still wearing most of its' original paint. Th350 w/ 3.42 rear and very low options. I also have two 70 Zs and just wanted a "cushy cruiser. Well, it is very nice and comfy to drive and does handle quite well. Eric did the Rochester which made big difference in drivability and it scoots along well, but fast or quick it ain't. Still, I'm happy with it and is now my go-to local cruise in driver. I had a guy approach me a couple months ago at a local show...wanted to buy it bad. We didn't even talk price, I just told him I was having too much fun with it right now and not interested in selling.

[danachevroletfor1967]

Beautiful car. I still like those late 2nd gen Z28s.

[Mr70]

One of the most notable '79 camaro scenes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqEjG47WGHM

[JRSully]

a little detour on this thread. I had some of the BEST street racing in the 80's with the IROC's, 5.0 Mustangs an GNs squaring off all over the place here on LI. The races were usually pretty close and not stupid fast that you got into that much trouble. I had a brand new 88 5.0 stripper that was a rip to race, wish I still had it. It is now their turn in the collector spotlight, prices are climbing quickly for nice ones

[cook_dw]

http://www.allpar.com/photos/dodge/omni/GLH-S.jpg

[XXXGoldL34M20]

Outside owning a 1970 SS 396 I had a boat load of fun owning a 1981 Citation X-11 with an High output V6 and 4 speed trans, this thing boogied and I drove it all year round, with the front wheel drive it got by the snow just fine.
I ended up driving it to the scrap yard with nearly 300,000 KM on the odometer.
Lots of memories in this little hatchback that was a pocket rocket.

[novadude]

a little detour on this thread. I had some of the BEST street racing in the 80's with the IROC's, 5.0 Mustangs an GNs squaring off all over the place here on LI. The races were usually pretty close and not stupid fast that you got into that much trouble. I had a brand new 88 5.0 stripper that was a rip to race, wish I still had it. It is now their turn in the collector spotlight, prices are climbing quickly for nice ones

I had a '70 Nova SS clone daily driver back around 1990-1995 when I was in my late teens / early 20s. That was back in the day when kids still cruised the local hangouts, and we had a few places in Pittsburgh we'd go to street race. The Nova had a budget mild 350 that ran mid-14s. Lots of 5.0 and thirdgen F-bodies at the street races back in those days, and my Nova could easily beat up on the mostly stock ones.

It always made me happy to beat a rich kid in a new car with my home built junk that cost maybe $3k total (bought the Nova for $500 w/ a stock 230 ci). Of course I lost to some of the mildly modded 5.0L Mustangs too.

I had a '95 Mustang GT 5.0L in 2001-2005. Fun car.

[HawkX66]

Nah, the 80s had some fun iron after some tweaking...

80 Grand Prix that I put a 400 in with Keystones. Comfortable driver that sounded great. I wouldn't consider it fast though lol

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5695/31384356395_89ff84e33d.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PPk2K2)

My '84 Z28. Loved that car.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5450/30487645144_2049fb2a45_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Ns69Jd)

And my favorite late 70s, almost 80s car. We still have it.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5493/31165382262_5d217fa854_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PtYJmW)

[markinnaples]

Great thread. I graduated in 1984 and had a slug '78 Trans Am that I used to mess around with a couple of my buddies' rides which were a 1979 Capri 5.0 and 1979 Mustang GT. Stupid choices but lots of fun. Mine looked like this one but with Hurst Hatch T-tops.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/n6mehHlgcwE/maxresdefault.jpg

[black69]

Funny you say that about your 78 trans am. I thought my brother's car was the fastest thing when I was 18. And it handled like sticky glue. Maybe that is what really changed was for the first time, the cars started to handle way better, got a little flashier (velour interior was the sh-t back then), while getting slower. So thus, people were happy in the end with these other improvements distracting them. Maybe the early 80s were actually a - ok. Slow cars, but the other stuff made up for it.

Thank god, the 80s did come, to fix the 78 mustang nightmare body design. Ford will always have a hard time covering up that tattoo.

[markinnaples]

Agree, 2nd gen F-bodies handled really well, esp the WS6 TA's (a old buddy is restoring a 1979 black 400/4spd WS6) with the beautiful snowflake 15x8 rimes, but they (mine at least) was slow as molasses. Sounded good, looked good, but not fast compared to the hot stuff that was owned by the older guys around Pittsburgh at that time.

[427TJ]

I had two new 5.0 LX Mustangs, an '87 and a '90. Great bang for the buck.

[CC Rider]

For the times, an L98 IROC was pretty quick. The only options this one did not have were t-tops and the Bose Stereo. Otherwise, this was my first 'loaded' car.

[Lynn]

You were better off without the T tops.

[earntaz]

You were better off without the T tops.

I seem to remember if they had a high HP engine the T-Tops were not available ... TAZ

[The Boss]

In that year they were - 1987 right CC Rider?

[carnut4life]

Interesting thread to say the least. From what I've read T-Tops were available in a IROC every year the 350 option was available except 1990. Something to do with the weight and gas mileage averages if I remember correctly.

[CC Rider]

In that year they were - 1987 right CC Rider?

Yes, it was an '87.

I sold an 84 Z28 with t-tops to buy the 87. Night and day difference in rigidity of the body.

[HawkX66]

I sold an 84 Z28 with t-tops to buy the 87. Night and day difference in rigidity of the body.
This is true, but damned if those T-Tops weren't nice. I loved them. That is until some little puke in Carlsbad, CA decided one night that he liked mine more than me...

[CC Rider]

This is true, but damned if those T-Tops weren't nice. I loved them. That is until some little puke in Carlsbad, CA decided one night that he liked mine more than me...

On a sunny day, they would help the interior of the '84 stay warm during the winter.

[Xplantdad]

On a sunny day, they would help the interior of the '84 stay warm during the winter.



Says the guy who is always cold...even here in AZ ;)

[Chazman]

For the times, an L98 IROC was pretty quick. The only options this one did not have were t-tops and the Bose Stereo. Otherwise, this was my first 'loaded' car.


I special ordered this in 1989 and still own it. It's a 1989, G92, LB9, 5 speed, with N10 dual cats, oil cooler, Aussie BW 3.45 9 bolt and DX3 decal delete. I figure if you put it in a time machine and sent it back to 1969 it could hold it's own on the street in a straight line with most muscle cars of the day and annihilate anything from anywhere on a curvy road.



https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20246038_10210801809014403_3240833568928478377_n.j pg?oh=76b86d66592b7c58f2a3222c47c9f06d&oe=59FBC998

[Crush]

Very nice!!

[TMagda]

A buddy had a '83-'84 Z/28. We were going out one night and both hopped in. The doors closed at exactly the same time and the pressure pushed the windshield right out of the car.

I bought a '79 Trans Am brand new. Loved it. Still think its a great looking car and hope to get another soon. Amazing handling, for the time. However, it had to be the worst car car I ever owned. Bad paint, leaky t-tops, electrical problems, no power, awful gas mileage, slow, etc. But it was fun. It was really cheap due to the gas shortage in '79. Sold it after 6 months, the gas shortage had ended, for roughly $3,000 more than I paid for it. Almost like a Wrangler, you know its a bad car, but its a Wrangler!

[markinnaples]

...Almost like a Wrangler, you know its a bad car, but its a Wrangler!

I think that's the best line I've read in quite a while.

[The Boss]

I special ordered this in 1989 and still own it. It's a 1989, G92, LB9, 5 speed, with N10 dual cats, oil cooler, Aussie BW 3.45 9 bolt and DX3 decal delete. I figure if you put it in a time machine and sent it back to 1969 it could hold it's own on the street in a straight line with most muscle cars of the day and annihilate anything from anywhere on a curvy road.


You do know that most of that was due to tire technology right? ;)

My Pure Stock 71 GT-37 ran a 13.25 this weekend at Norwalk and still has more in it if the driver can get better - there is no way in stock form your IROC (or mine for that matter) will ever do that.

[whitetop]

Don't laugh.

A friend had a '88 or 89 Cavalier Z-24 5 speed. 140 hp stock. He put a cold air kit on it from K&N and some other mods from the gm catalog. I believe he changed the camshaft, did some headwork and exhaust mods and gearing.

That thing would get up and go.. of course it was probably a thousand lbs lighter than the comparable cars made today

[Chazman]

You do know that most of that was due to tire technology right? ;)

My Pure Stock 71 GT-37 ran a 13.25 this weekend at Norwalk and still has more in it if the driver can get better - there is no way in stock form your IROC (or mine for that matter) will ever do that.

I do. ;)

Also, I'd say Pure Stock cars are probably running a bit sharper than they did off the showroom floor.

[flyingn]

That your son's GN Frank? Nice car!

I :D

Yes it is.. Thanks!

[flyingn]

Outside owning a 1970 SS 396 I had a boat load of fun owning a 1981 Citation X-11 with an High output V6 and 4 speed trans, this thing boogied and I drove it all year round, with the front wheel drive it got by the snow just fine.
I ended up driving it to the scrap yard with nearly 300,000 KM on the odometer.
Lots of memories in this little hatchback that was a pocket rocket.

I had a rare beast Citation too. 1980 v6 coupe, 4 speed, tach/gauges, buckets and console. It was a blast

[flyingn]

of ALL the cars of the 80's THIS F body was far and away the fastest and best handling. Had the 1LE brakes and suspension.
http://i.imgur.com/qvOxyKRh.jpg

[Chazman]

I had a rare beast Citation too. 1980 v6 coupe, 4 speed, tach/gauges, buckets and console. It was a blast

I also had a 1980 Citation, a Club Coupe with V6 and 4 speed. No options other than FM radio and the 2.8L V8. No AC, bench seat, poverty caps - the lightest possible Citation with the biggest motor.

I had a new exhaust bent up for it, recurved the distributor, bumped up the timing and modified the air cleaner. I really wanted an X-11, though.

That sucker could chirp third. But it wasn't very reliable. I traded it in on an '84 GLH.

[earntaz]

of ALL the cars of the 80's THIS F body was far and away the fastest and best handling. Had the 1LE brakes and suspension.
http://i.imgur.com/qvOxyKRh.jpg

Those were fine looking Pontiacs ...

[ZAPPER68]

Interesting thread...as mentioned the ad is hilarious. Back in the day I was talked into buying an '80 Turbo Trans Am, WS6, T tops and 3 little amber lights (on the hood) to tell you the turbo was giving you the ride of your life. Not!

It handled as one would expect with the WS6 suspension but was the most gutless V8 car man had devised. The car would corner like it was on rails but was an absolute slug! Buyer beware...

[markinnaples]

of ALL the cars of the 80's THIS F body was far and away the fastest and best handling. Had the 1LE brakes and suspension.
http://i.imgur.com/qvOxyKRh.jpg

Always loved those 1989 TTA's; I had my Camaro out over last weekend and one of those pulled up next to me in traffic. Looked to be a DD and wasn't particularly clean, but I'd loved to have owned it.

[old5.0]

You do know that most of that was due to tire technology right? ;)

My Pure Stock 71 GT-37 ran a 13.25 this weekend at Norwalk and still has more in it if the driver can get better - there is no way in stock form your IROC (or mine for that matter) will ever do that.

Just out of curiosity, why is that? Understanding that there's a difference between Pure Stock and actual as-delivered-off-the-showroom-floor vehicles, a Pure Stock legal roller cam 5.0 will run low 13's, so what is it about the TPI Chevy that would keep it from doing that?

[Chazman]

Just out of curiosity, why is that? Understanding that there's a difference between Pure Stock and actual as-delivered-off-the-showroom-floor vehicles, a Pure Stock legal roller cam 5.0 will run low 13's, so what is it about the TPI Chevy that would keep it from doing that?


Off the top of my head, Pure Stock allows an added point and a half of compression, gear ratio changes, bigger exhaust, carb tuning, bigger tires, etc.

[old5.0]

Off the top of my head, Pure Stock allows an added point and a half of compression, gear ratio changes, bigger exhaust, carb tuning, bigger tires, etc.

That's my understanding as well. A roller cam 5 speed Fox coupe with those mods could crack 12s with a very good driver before the factory Goodyears become an insurmountable obstacle, so I'm curious as to why a TPI Camaro can't at least get in the bottom half of the 13s.

[Chazman]

That's my understanding as well. A roller cam 5 speed Fox coupe with those mods could crack 12s with a very good driver before the factory Goodyears become an insurmountable obstacle, so I'm curious as to why a TPI Camaro can't at least get in the bottom half of the 13s.

Here's a Motorweek road test of an '89 G92, dual cat, LB9, 5 speed with a 3.45 gear.

This is the fastest one I've ever remember seeing from the day and may not be representative of the typical production car - but they got a 13.9 second 1/4 mile.



https://youtu.be/aCL-odNmuGA

There were a number of free/cheap mods on the TPI back in the day, (similar to the 5.0 Mustang), which could REALLY wake it up.

[old5.0]

Here's a Motorweek road test of an '89 G92, dual cat, LB9, 5 speed with a 3.45 gear.

This is the fastest one I've ever remember seeing from the day and may not be representative of the typical production car - but they got a 13.9 second 1/4 mile.



https://youtu.be/aCL-odNmuGA

There were a number of free/cheap mods on the TPI back in the day, (similar to the 5.0 Mustang), which could REALLY wake it up.

Yeah, I remember back in the late 80's MCR testing a 350 Iroc and running a 14.2 or 14.1, and all that jibes with the fastest 5.0 road tests I remember from back then:

85: Autoweek, 85 GT 5 speed car with A/C, 14.38@92

86: Car Craft, 86 LX coupe, 5 speed, no A/C 14.33@97 (with 2.73 gears)

87: Cars Illustrated, 87 LX hatch, no A/C 5 Speed radio delete, 13.73@101(?)

I also recall SSDI going 14 flat at 100 mph in a stock 87 hatch with air and Hot Rod (maybe) going 13.9x in a stripper LX coupe.

I suppose you could argue that those results aren't typical, but you could make that argument about things like 12 second Hemi cars, as well. Depends on how they're optioned, maintained and driven. I've been messing around with these piles of junk for the better part of 30 years, and putting a near stock Fox into the 12's just isn't particularly difficult. I can't imagine what would make it so hard (or near impossible) on a 3rd Gen, but I don't know near as much about them.

[The Boss]

Off the top of my head, Pure Stock allows an added point and a half of compression, gear ratio changes, bigger exhaust, carb tuning, bigger tires, etc.

It does, but mine is pure stock - other than running a 3:73 rear gear (available) and playing with the weights & springs in the transmission governor to shift at 5200rpm, there are no tricks or changes from stock in my car.

My comparison above was intended to be stock vs stock & I maintain that although they may run with the older cars, the older cars will beat them on a strip (no way in the curves).

[Chazman]

It does, but mine is pure stock - other than running a 3:73 rear gear (available) and playing with the weights & springs in the transmission governor to shift at 5200rpm, there are no tricks or changes from stock in my car.

My comparison above was intended to be stock vs stock & I maintain that although they may run with the older cars, the older cars will beat them on a strip (no way in the curves).

I don't know, that depends. So many people are under the impression that cars of the era were all super fast like an LS6, 4 speed, Chevelle or Hemi 'Cuda or other "hero" cars. The fact of the matter was that the majority of "muscle cars" of the day were more or less of the milk toast variety and could barely run in the 15's.

But I get you point, Chris.

[Chazman]

Yeah, I remember back in the late 80's MCR testing a 350 Iroc and running a 14.2 or 14.1, and all that jibes with the fastest 5.0 road tests I remember from back then:

85: Autoweek, 85 GT 5 speed car with A/C, 14.38@92

86: Car Craft, 86 LX coupe, 5 speed, no A/C 14.33@97 (with 2.73 gears)

87: Cars Illustrated, 87 LX hatch, no A/C 5 Speed radio delete, 13.73@101(?)

I also recall SSDI going 14 flat at 100 mph in a stock 87 hatch with air and Hot Rod (maybe) going 13.9x in a stripper LX coupe.

I suppose you could argue that those results aren't typical, but you could make that argument about things like 12 second Hemi cars, as well. Depends on how they're optioned, maintained and driven. I've been messing around with these piles of junk for the better part of 30 years, and putting a near stock Fox into the 12's just isn't particularly difficult. I can't imagine what would make it so hard (or near impossible) on a 3rd Gen, but I don't know near as much about them.

My friend had a '92 B4C, (police package), 1LE, RS. It was a 5.7 automatic. It has to have been the fastest bone stock 3rd gen Camaro I've ever ridden in.

He took it to the track once. It was his first time. As he was getting in line a bunch of 4th gen guys saw him and started to laugh. All they could see were the RS badges and figured they'd witness another 17 second 1/4 mile. First run and first run of the owner's life - 13.6 seconds!

The 4th gen guys stopped laughing. :D

[HawkX66]

The 4th gen guys stopped laughing. :D I can't imagine it stopped them too quick. A bone stock 93 Z will do 13.9-14.1 in the 1/4. A Moroso filter kit, SLP air diverter in the throttle body, MSD 6AL, Blaster coil and strut tower brace took me to an easy and consistent 13.1 while still getting 25+ mpg on the highway. Imagine a cam, headers, head work and a tune.
Those B4Cs were nice. My 3rd gen '84 Z28 5 spd was a slug IMO It didn't matter. I still loved it and would love to have it back as long as I could take all the vacuum/emissions crap off the motor.

[old5.0]

My friend had a '92 B4C, (police package), 1LE, RS. It was a 5.7 automatic. It has to have been the fastest bone stock 3rd gen Camaro I've ever ridden in.

He took it to the track once. It was his first time. As he was getting in line a bunch of 4th gen guys saw him and started to laugh. All they could see were the RS badges and figured they'd witness another 17 second 1/4 mile. First run and first run of the owner's life - 13.6 seconds!

The 4th gen guys stopped laughing. :D

Back in 93, the father of the girl I was dating at the time bought a brand new 93 Z. Burgundy red stick car, and the very first 4th gen in town, and it caused quite a stir when he rumbled into Sonic that Friday night looking for his first victim. My 89 Mustang had a few mods and turned 12.60's on 8" cheaters so he knew better than to pick on me. Instead he chose another kid with a 92 Z28. It was a beautiful car, a Heritage edition or something like that. Black with red stripes, 350 and every option under the sun, as I recall. It was also stone stock.

We all loaded up and followed them to the spot, looking forward to the epic beatdown we were about to witness. It was epic, all right, just not the way we figured it would be. The 92 crushed the 93 by a car to a car and a half in three straight.


On the pure stock/PureStock/"pure stock" argument, I dunno. Lot of confusion. A 5-speed 5.0 without A/C can go mid-13's with nothing but a timing bump and throwing the intake silencer in the trash, assuming a very good driver. The limiter is the tire. Put one on 7-inch slicks, and it'll go 12.99 with not much besides the aforementioned timing bump, a good shifter and 4.30 gears, but I suppose we're getting in the weeds a little here.

Has anyone really explored the potential of the TPI 3rd Gen package in stock/Pure Stock/Day 2 condition? Be interesting to find out. I'm thinking they might surprise a few people.

[Astock]

Maybe a little off topic, but my 1988 CHP 5.0 coupe brought $45,000 in 1994. A doctor from Huntington Beach bought it from the owner of Steeda, Dario Orlando. Pretty good money in '94 for an 80's car.

[Chazman]

Has anyone really explored the potential of the TPI 3rd Gen package in stock/Pure Stock/Day 2 condition? Be interesting to find out. I'm thinking they might surprise a few people.


I'd be interested in hearing someone chime on this as well.

One thing for sure, the later 3rd gens, like '89-'92, with G92 and N10 are faster than most people expect. Free mods, like bumping timing, opening airboxes, etc., should make 13's possible.

[firstgenaddict]

I special ordered this in 1989 and still own it. It's a 1989, G92, LB9, 5 speed, with N10 dual cats, oil cooler, Aussie BW 3.45 9 bolt and DX3 decal delete. I figure if you put it in a time machine and sent it back to 1969 it could hold it's own on the street in a straight line with most muscle cars of the day and annihilate anything from anywhere on a curvy road.



https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20246038_10210801809014403_3240833568928478377_n.j pg?oh=76b86d66592b7c58f2a3222c47c9f06d&oe=59FBC998

One little option or lack thereof (C41-air conditioning delete) would have triggered the 1LE package---Fuel tank baffles - Corvette front bakes- deleted fog lamps- aluminum drive shaft - and made the total 1LE production 112.

[Chazman]

One little option or lack thereof (C41-air conditioning delete) would have triggered the 1LE package---Fuel tank baffles - Corvette front bakes- deleted fog lamps- aluminum drive shaft - and made the total 1LE production 112.

Actually, this was supposed to be 1LE number 112, the last one built for 1989 - it was ordered on the last week you could make a factory order, in fact IIRC the second to last day.

At the very last moment I decided that I should have AC because it was intended to be my DD and I was tired of showing up to work sweaty in my shirt and tie with the non-AC GLH I was driving.

Who knew 28 years later it would only have 11K miles?

BTW, as more of these '89-'92 cars are having their tanks dropped, it seems that fuel tank baffles were more common than once thought. Mine may have it, who knows.

[The Boss]

Many of the R7U and 1LE specific options first introduced in 87 (R7U cars) and 1988 with the introduction of the 1LE package became running changes in the line as they went forward - even the JG1 Aluminum Driveshaft was around ahead of that time, developed to help in weight reduction & CAFE regulations.

The one assembly that did not become mainstream were the front spindle, bearing, caliper and rotor assemblies derived from the corvette & C10 truck programs. Those remained 1LE (& TTA) specific.

[Chazman]

Many of the R7U and 1LE specific options first introduced in 87 (R7U cars) and 1988 with the introduction of the 1LE package became running changes in the line as they went forward - even the JG1 Aluminum Driveshaft was around ahead of that time, developed to help in weight reduction & CAFE regulations.

The one assembly that did not become mainstream were the front spindle, bearing, caliper and rotor assemblies derived from the corvette & C10 truck programs. Those remained 1LE (& TTA) specific.


One interesting thing I've noticed is, all B4C 1LEs I've seen, have the steel driveshaft and not the JG1.

[70zd28]

Back in December of 1990 I heard that Chevrolet lost the rights to the IROC name, I always wanted one and did not care for the 91's large rear spoiler. Wanted a blue 350 G92 car, local dealer ended up finding me one in Alberta. Still have the car, has only 6000 miles on it. Did not intend for it to have this low of mileage but life happened (kids, job changes, house renos etc).

I would not say the car was lightening fast but it ran great for the day. Early 90's ran it at the strip on a 92 degree day, poor traction but ran a14.5, fastest 5 litre Mustang GT ran a 15. Ran against a couple Buick GN on the street, they would have me by a car length in a 1/4 mile but after that I would pull ahead, in a 3 mile stretch they would be far behind. Had the car close to 140 mph and let off.

[The Boss]

Back in December of 1990 I heard that Chevrolet lost the rights to the IROC name, I always wanted one and did not care for the 91's large rear spoiler. Wanted a blue 350 G92 car, local dealer ended up finding me one in Alberta. Still have the car, has only 6000 miles on it. Did not intend for it to have this low of mileage but life happened (kids, job changes, house renos etc).

I would not say the car was lightening fast but it ran great for the day. Early 90's ran it at the strip on a 92 degree day, poor traction but ran a14.5, fastest 5 litre Mustang GT ran a 15. Ran against a couple Buick GN on the street, they would have me by a car length in a 1/4 mile but after that I would pull ahead, in a 3 mile stretch they would be far behind. Had the car close to 140 mph and let off.

Your GN memory is the same as mine, they had a speed limiter where we did not. I used to race one out of the toll booths at Route 128 outside Boston at least once a week - he'd have me off the line but it wouldn't be long till I was walking past him. ;)

Beautiful car BTW - worth quite a bit more now than when you bought it - low miles rule!!!

[firstgenaddict]

Of Course 87-up B2K Corvettes...
B2K = Callaway Twin Turbo - given their cost new they were a decent value last time I seriously looked at them... 5 years ago I found a Black over tan 88 B2K roadster with 25k miles for 25k.