Driving Project 69 Chevelle L78

[sixt9rsx33]

I just bought this driving project Garnet red bench seat four speed car. No tach, no gauges, no ps a stripper. The car came with the original engine running in the car, build sheet, wrong tranny. I got the NCRS shipping data report and it matches the build sheet. (I only have a partial build sheet) the options are listed but not the vin. So I am under the car today scraped off the gunk off the axle tube and am expecting to find a KK code rear end like what is on the build sheet but nope. I find a CF 3:31 code perfectly dated to the car. So my question is this. Were there mistakes on the build sheet, or were axle tubes mis labeled at times? I have not driven the car yet to "feel" if the car has a 4:10 vs. 3.31. I guess someone could had flipped out the rear end and the date just by coincidence matched the build of the car? I hope to have it on the road in a few weeks. I am not going to restore it just drive and enjoy a "beater". Probably just sell it after playing with it?

Thanks

[NorCam]

Can we see a few pics of what you got there?

[SS69chevelle]

it is possible that the portion of build sheet you have actually belongs to another chevelle that was on the assembly line near that one. additional details might be needed to make any serious assessment. I can check my list and see if I have any info and I would like to add yours if you don't mind. I can be reached via PM or my email [email protected]. take care, andy

[sixt9rsx33]

Can we see a few pics of what you got there?

Sure I will post some tomorrow

[sixt9rsx33]

it is possible that the portion of build sheet you have actually belongs to another chevelle that was on the assembly line near that one. additional details might be needed to make any serious assessment. I can check my list and see if I have any info and I would like to add yours if you don't mind. I can be reached via PM or my email [email protected]. take care, andy

I sent you an email

[scuncio]

I can't say I have ever seen that but anything's possible.

[scuncio]

Did you happen to buy this car? If so, I like it!

1969 L78 Chevelle (http://ebay.to/2t2TnB8)

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/mOcAAOSwXetZPHBB/s-l1600.jpg

[sixt9rsx33]

That is the beater

[sixt9rsx33]

That is the beater
I know there were some questions about the stamp but I got comfortable with it via a friend, a pic of a similar stamp on Chevelle stuff, and the known fonts at Tonawanda. The car has been sitting for 30 years, two owners and crusty. Has original quarters, door panels, headliner, alternator, VR, horn relay, horns, starter. Mileage shows 47K, but hard to tell. Engine runs really well for how it all looks. Between my buddy and I we have several used parts we will put on it and let it go. Won't worry about rain or parking lots in this beater. One of the shocks is frozen and the car is tilted over. Will get those few things corrected. Per the NCRS shipping report, Monument Chevy is the dealer the car went to and that is the same as on the build sheet. Car's production is 5/12/69.

[Big Block Bill]

Another one Saved!
Way to go.
Congratulations.

Bill

[Mr70]

Based on what I've seen in the auction,I believe you have the correct buildsheet and someone changed the rearend housing & added the correct 4.10 gear.Plus the way the seller phrased it,screams the same,asing "A" & not "The".
...A 12 bolt posi rear (4.10 gears) is still in the car and documented on the build sheet to be correct.

[RPOLS3]

Anyone ever figure out what the deal was with the fore/aft axle placement relative to the rear wheel well openings? Where the pictures just distorted?

[sixt9rsx33]

Anyone ever figure out what the deal was with the fore/aft axle placement relative to the rear wheel well openings? Where the pictures just distorted?

That is a great question that I struggled with prior to purchase. The right side shock is frozen in a fully extended position so the car is racked badly to the left. While the car was in the shop the right rear tire went flat basically leveling out the car. Once the car was level the wheel placement looked correct. But I did want to measure it to confirm.

[sixt9rsx33]

Based on what I've seen in the auction,I believe you have the correct buildsheet and someone changed the rearend housing & added the correct 4.10 gear.Plus the way the seller phrased it,screams the same,asing "A" & not "The".
...A 12 bolt posi rear (4.10 gears) is still in the car and documented on the build sheet to be correct.

The seller was a Mopar guy and really had very limited GM knowledge so not sure his word phrasing was on purpose, but could had been. I know that when I scraped off years of gunk to find the axle coding it had been a long time since anyone was looking for that code. Seller told me he counted the wheel rotations to the driveshaft rotations to assume a 4.10. We are going to pull the rear end cover and see if the gears are date coded.
Will keep digging and see what this old crusty thing turns out to be....:3gears:

[sixt9rsx33]

Here are pictures from today

[sixt9rsx33]

More pics

[sixt9rsx33]

More pics

[sixt9rsx33]

Few stamp pics, clearly the D is different than the rest of the stamp but also look at the 1. And no 9? Bad day at the plant? Not sure but clearly a different stamp. I am going to soak a blue rag with evap o rust and remove the rust so the broach marks are more visible. I can see some but need a little evap o rust.

[cook_dw]

Legit stamp IMO.

[firstgenaddict]

Yea I agree on the stamp... if you pull the engine apart take pics of the gasket marks on the deck...

FWIW a KK rear end is WAY more valuable than a CF... double or triple, however L78 with 4.10 is brutal.

[wheelhop]

car was built on my birthday

[Postsedan]

Yeah, but your waaaaaaay older than that :D

Dan

[wheelhop]

Youre not far behind

[sixt9rsx33]

Yea I agree on the stamp... if you pull the engine apart take pics of the gasket marks on the deck...

FWIW a KK rear end is WAY more valuable than a CF... double or triple, however L78 with 4.10 is brutal.

I agree James, but my Gold Z has a 4.10 rear and it is just not reasonable to drive except around town. On the interstate it is a joke and at 60 miles per hour it is screaming and I am getting dusted by all the other traffic. So will be interesting to drive the car with a 3.31. A 3.73 is not as bad.

[sixt9rsx33]

Based on what I've seen in the auction,I believe you have the correct buildsheet and someone changed the rearend housing & added the correct 4.10 gear.Plus the way the seller phrased it,screams the same,asing "A" & not "The".
...A 12 bolt posi rear (4.10 gears) is still in the car and documented on the build sheet to be correct.

I believe now that the car has 3.31 gears per the stamp on the axle tube. So what is weird to me is the the build sheet has KK, and the rear end is CF with a axle tube stamp of 0412 that is right in line with all the other stamps of the 052 build on the Trim Tag. If the axle tube stamp was not in line with the build of the car it would obvious it was flipped out. Perhaps the original owner early had the rear end changed?
Thoughts?

[Viz]

Not an answer to your axle question, but on my 69 that I bought new, and still have, I ordered the K85 63 amp alternator. It's on the build sheet too, but the car came through with a 37 amp alternator. I didn't discover that until a few years later. I suppose there are other stories about mismatched parts vs build sheets.

Viz

[Mr70]

I believe now that the car has 3.31 gears per the stamp on the axle tube. So what is weird to me is the the build sheet has KK, and the rear end is CF with a axle tube stamp of 0412 that is right in line with all the other stamps of the 052 build on the Trim Tag. If the axle tube stamp was not in line with the build of the car it would obvious it was flipped out. Perhaps the original owner early had the rear end changed?
Thoughts?

Anything was possible,but unless you have a signed affidavit or any other docs stating this car was built with a 3.31,it will be believed that it is not the original born with rearend housing,based on the accompanying buildsheet showing 4.10.
People have been looking for correctly dated replacement components for their cars since these cars rolled out off the assembly line,and still are today for this very reason.

[ssl78]

What trans does the build sheet say it came with M20 M21 or M22 that would be a clue of what gear originally came in the car

[Mr70]

I don't think that will help John,as all three 4 spd. transmissions behind this Chevelle could've received a 3.31,3.55,3.73 or 4.10 gear back then from the factory.
I suspect someone swapped in the rear axle tube afterwards,who didn't have access to that partial buildsheet,or if they did,they weren't savvy to noticing the G80 & G84 notation of 4.

[sixt9rsx33]

[QUOTE=Mr70;1366286]

I agree, I think someone swapped out the rear end, but many years ago. The car per the seller has not moved in 30 years. The last inspection sticker on the front window is 1987. The amount of gunk that I had to scrape off the axle tube had been there a long time. I am guessing that someone got the car with the 4.10's and said...oh hell no I can't drive this thing with this gear and put a new rear end in the car. I say this because the date of the rear end is consistent with all the other date codes of the other parts on the car. Or under the more unlikely scenario the car was born with a 3.31. I am guessing, seeing that the car still has the original engine the 3.31 may have been in the car for a long time. Not saying that an original engine can't remain with a 4.10 but perhaps the 3.31 helped along the way??
So I drove the car for the first time yesterday. It runs like a bat out of hell even with the 3.31 gears. I was amazed how well it ran. Did not drive well though!! Front end needs work but shifted well and started right up.

Lawrence

[sixt9rsx33]

Can I fit a 275 60 R 15 under the quarters on a 69 Chevelle? Right now the car has old 255's on all four corners.

Thanks

Lawrence

[Mr70]

Absolutely..although the backspacing on your rims is what's really important.
I run this same tire on the back of my '70 with a 4-1/2" backspaced rim with no problem.

[sixt9rsx33]

I should had been more descriptive. I am using the typical 15x 7 Rawlley wheel. Not sure of the backspace g on this wheel.

[Mr70]

If it's got the usual 3-1/4" backspacing,you might in jeopardy of hitting the top of the wheel moulding mounting lip.

[novadude]

I should had been more descriptive. I am using the typical 15x 7 Rawlley wheel. Not sure of the backspace g on this wheel.

The typical 70s monte carlo common rally wheel has a 4.25" backspace (1/4" offset).

[sixt9rsx33]

The typical 70s monte carlo common rally wheel has a 4.25" backspace (1/4" offset).

That is what is on the car the FW coded wheels.
Should I stick with the 255's with this setup?

[sixt9rsx33]

The car has a 67 Muncie in place with no speedometer cable installed. Can I put a 67 Chevelle speedo cable in place and it fit? A 67 speedo location is on the driver side and a 69 on the passenger side of the transmission.
Thanks

[sixt9rsx33]

I cleaned the ole Chevelle up today, pulled the seat belts from under the back seat and installed the front belts. The rear belts should had been soaked in a bucket of oxy clean but that is for the guy that restored this ole girl. I drove the car 8.5 miles and it drove ok. Tightened up the steering box drives much better but the tires are shot.

[firstgenaddict]

FWIW on the broadcast sheet the wheels show as YA's with 52 Paint and no stripe...

Other 69 broadcasts I have seen do not have a body color in the wheel box when YA's are indicated.

[sixt9rsx33]

I have been racking up the miles on this car. Really fun to drive, and different driving experience with the full frame as compared to the uni-body cars. I still have not pulled the rear end cover but I believe I have changed my mind now that I have put over 100 miles on the car. I believe the 3.31 gears are in the car. The engine just does not seem to be revving that high at 60 mph like it should if it had 4.10 gears in it?

[Bob Jenkins]

maybe someone changed the rear end back in 1970's during the gas shortage.....I know in my L78 Camaro, they pulled the big block and and put in a built 283 during that time.

[bbbentley]

[QUOTE=Bob Jenkins, ... Camaro, they pulled the big block and and put in a built 283 during that time.[/QUOTE]

Funny, I pulled the 396 out of my Camaro in 1982 and put in a 283. Not because of the gas shortage, but I was getting married and wanted to keep the car. Made it my daily till...well that is another story best left for not H-hacking a post.

[sixt9rsx33]

Tracked down the second owner of the Chevelle and had a great call with him Sunday afternoon.
Paul bought the car Feb 1972 and sold the car Feb 2016 after 44 years of ownership. Paul bought the car with 25,000 miles and enjoyed the car as a driver. He and his wife drove the car all over New England including Montreal. In the mid 70’s he had the engine rebuilt by Davidson Chevy in Medford MA. He confirmed the engine was original and he never replaced the rear end during his ownership. Paul changed the tranny to a Turbo 400 with a Pontiac shifter and face plate in the late 70’s. Car came with this weird face plate with other parts in a box in the trunk....funny wondered why the shifter plate was there? Including the 70’s vintage radio that Paul had put in the glove box because it would not fit the in the dash. Glad he did not cut it up. Paul painted the car in the late 70’s and the single stage paint is still on the car.
The pictures below are of the car after several years of hibernation in his garage, and when he sold it Feb 2016.

[sixt9rsx33]

Few more pics

[sixt9rsx33]

Paul had a minor accident in the late 70’s and had a 68 Chevelle driver fender installed. He painted the car “Cadillac Red”. The drivers door was replaced too due to a tree falling on the door. It was replaced with a junkyard door from a 69 Chevelle. Funny when I was looking at the car and I saw these body panels painted a different color. Always wondered the back story.

[scuncio]

Cool pics, car cleaned up pretty nicely.

[markinnaples]

Wow, 44 years, that's amazing.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Great car.... drive the wheels off of it!

[sixt9rsx33]

Great car.... drive the wheels off of it!

Thanks. That is what I am going to do.