Sotheby's auction at Hershey- Beware

[Verne_Frantz]

Concerning Lot #174 which is a '61 SS 409 car. I documented this car back in '92 when it was owned by Dale Armstrong. The VIN is correct as well as the body number but the tag has been modified to reflect the current Arbor Green on green colors. The car was originally Twilight Turquoise with a turquoise interior. I also noticed what appears to be some metal work behind the VIN tag. There is no mention of it having been Dale's car in the listing.
I'm concerned because I can't see why anyone would take that restored car completely apart to change to those colors. IT also has the original Shop Order GM tag on the cowl, making it one of one. But the question exists as to whether the tags have been removed from Dales car (along with the driveline and other options) and placed on a Green car. Someone needs to get under it and check the frame VIN derivitive.
I'm trying to contact someone at Sotheby's now.

This car should be pulled from the auction until some questions are answered.

Verne

PS: The car is scheduled to go through the auction this evening.

[Verne_Frantz]

The fact that it's a Shop Order car means that any combination of options could have been specified by the Exec who had it built. It always had AC (as Dale found it). This car is (was maybe) the only other '61 409 car in existence, other than the Dan Gurney car, that has its original engine.

I've been in contact with a rep at the auction and he will try to verify the frame VIN.

Verne

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Subject VIN 11837L155023

RM-Southebys Oct. 2017 Auction
Lot #174 link...
https://www.rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/HF17/Hershey/lots/r255-1961-chevrolet-impala-ss-409-sport-coupe/535012


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[Verne_Frantz]

Twilight Turquoise with Dale driving in '95
101154

[SuperNovaSS]

It even still has the same plate. Well done bringing this to light Verne.


Jason

[Tracker1]

Lucky to have you looking out for the early cars Verne with your extensive knowledge. Hopefully, it's been brought to light in time to save someone a lot of grief.

Of course, it begs the question - why would someone ruin such a spectacular car in the first place?

[luzl78]

Twilight Turquoise with Dale driving in '95
101154
I can't stop looking at this car...absolutely love this car and especially the color.

[Verne_Frantz]

Car was hammered sold for $105K.

[Charley Lillard]

"This car should be pulled from the auction until some questions are answered."
They can't just pull a car from a auction because someone says something isn't right. People spend alot of money to put a car in a auction. If they pulled a car everytime someone said something was fishy there would be a bunch of people saying something was fishy just to screwup someone elses auction.

[Verne_Frantz]

Maybe "pulling it" would be too strong of a reaction. When I told the auction person about the issue with the cowl tag, he said he'd look into it and if need be, revise the description of the car. They could have stated that there had been a color change and the tag was modified to reflect that, but nothing was said. Afterall, who the hell am I? I'm just some jerk who called in from nowhere with a story. He never bothered to call me back (as promised0 to let me know what they had discovered.

Here's the tracing of the tag that Dale sent to me before he restored the car.
101164

Here's the tag on the car now
101165

Verne

[mrays]

Dale's Tuxedo Black 62 Bel Air and 61 Impala SS were featured in the August 1995 issue of Super Chevy. Maybe it's just the lighting, but in the magazine the 61 looks more like Arbor Green than Twilight Turquoise. In the article they call it Jade Green and mention the special cowl tag. It was restored by Patrick's Classy Cars in Phoenix and completed in August of 1994. The tag change was probably done when the car was restored in '94 because in the pictures of the car in the magazine it appears to be the same color as it is now.

[Lynn]

Very hard to read that tracing Verne. I am sure it is more clear in person.

So the current tag is 905A, and the original tag was 915A?

[Verne_Frantz]

Yes Lynn, Close observation of the tracing confirms that the original tag was modified to reflect the new paint and trim codes. Everything else on the tag is exactly as the original tracing. The whole tag was not repro'd; just the trim & paint codes modified. Dale also hand wrote the information from the tag on the form I supplied him.
The original tag had an "8" stamped after the trim code right under the "18" of the style number. Enlarged, I can see where it was flattened out. You probably can't see that because the photo I posted had to be reduced to teeny weeny in order to post it on this new site software.

I'm working on a theory that Dale actually had the car restored Green/Green, perhaps because back then a Turquoise repro interior may not have been available. The other photo I posted from '95 was printed in a Car & Driver article about the car. There's no doubt it looks Turquoise, but in the article they mention it's Arbor Green!

The other twist is the fact that none of the repro tag makers back then had the correct fonts needed to make those changes. I don't believe Dale had that done. I believe the tag modification was done within the last few years. If the restorers are still available, perhaps they can shed some light on that issue.

I also discovered that the '61 409 block Dale put in the car is a replacement that he paid $10K for back then, so it is not the second '61 409 car in existence with its original block. The more I look into it, the more I learn (and share).

The bottom line is that the car is not restored as it was originally found (or built).

Verne