1970 454 COPO Camaro?

[396/425blr]

Were any 1970 454/450 Camaro's ever made through COPO? If not, I wonder why? Seems like it would go down the same route as a 69 427/425.

[BCreekDave]

One made. Wasn't a COPO or an RPO but was made on the assembly line. More of a engineering special sent to Smokey Yunick.
The 1970 AIM has many pages for the LS6 option, but was cancelled. Note that there weren't any LS6 Corvettes either. Oy Chevelles and a few Montes and El Caminos.

[William]

One made. Wasn't a COPO or an RPO but was made on the assembly line. More of a engineering special sent to Smokey Yunick.
The 1970 AIM has many pages for the LS6 option, but was cancelled. Note that there weren't any LS6 Corvettes either. Oy Chevelles and a few Montes and El Caminos.

Today that car has an LS6 engine. Many unsubstantiated claims have been made about it. When purchased at the auction it was a disassembled body w/o VIN tag. The FMVSS VIN label on the door indicated it was built as a 6 cylinder.

You be the judge.

[Tracker1]

One made. Wasn't a COPO or an RPO but was made on the assembly line. More of a engineering special sent to Smokey Yunick.
The 1970 AIM has many pages for the LS6 option, but was cancelled. Note that there weren't any LS6 Corvettes either. Oy Chevelles and a few Montes and El Caminos.

LS6 Montes? None ever documented.

[BCreekDave]

LS6 Montes? None ever documented.

My mistake then. Thought I saw a post where there were two that were made.
Also correct on the 454 Camaro having a 6 cylinder VIN. Some mystery surrounding that one. Anecdotal evidence.

[70 copo]

There are many ways to display this car today. While Yunick had it he built the car in several configurations.

Rumored are LS-6, Small Block with a Cross Ram, COPO Spoiler, etc... .

The car left Chevrolet at Norwood as a base 6 cylinder as part of the assembly pilot production build.

Car then made it's way to Yunick's garage and then decades later was sold at auction as a disassembled tub with the front end loose and no drive train.

[BCreekDave]

Also was fitted with a JL-8 setup and a pretty cool flat hood cold air setup. Rumor was John Delorean, GM of Chevy at the time would not permit a raised hood cowl induction setup.

[69LM1]

This was always one of my fav 1970 Camaros. Wonder where it wound up?

70 Dick Harrell 454 LS6 Camaro

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/yenkopictures/SCR8/tn_DSCF1730.jpg

Although not a GM made car, it was still cool...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxvSzMSGKl8

Rich

[Charley Lillard]

It's part of the Brother's Collection.

[The Boss]

So where is the Yunick car now?

[70 copo]

So where is the Yunick car now?

David Tom had it last I tracked it.

[The Boss]

This one? https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0513-154227/1970-chevrolet-camaro/

[William]

So where is the Yunick car now?

Yunick had more than one 2nd Gen Camaro. In his book he mentions building a '72 Camaro for AJ Foyt. He sold it a few years later. The '70 was not mentioned at all.

[70 copo]

This one? https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0513-154227/1970-chevrolet-camaro/


Exactly. That's the car that sold at the Yunick Auction and was later restored with the equipment listing as specified in the mecum auction.

[69LM1]

From when I was into the Monte Carlos heavy and the FGMC site, there were two urban legends that could never be proven, one was a LS6 Monte, and the other was a 4 speed Monte LS5. All known Monte LS5 (SS) were autos. There were approx. 600 non SS 402 (396) 4 speeds made. From what I remember anyway.

Kind of like the 70 SS396 L78 auto that no ones ever proven.... :) (beats dead horse)

Rich

[William]

There is a photo of the body shell as purchased from Smokey Yunick in the March/April 1995 Camaro Enthusiast.

No roll cage, unmodified wheel wells. Front sheet metal is intact and appears untouched. Looks like he did nothing more than dismantle it.

[Tracker1]

Mmmmmmmmm, what about the '70 Dick Harrell Monte Carlo (Tim Pestinger in Ks owns it)?


LS6 Monte Carlo (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/2145383-post1.html)


Dick's wife's car - ordered as an LS5 and then an LS6 crate engine was swapped in after delivery. There are no 'COPO' Montes with LS6s from the factory, that's BS.

[70 copo]

From the Yunick Auction.

[70 copo]

Yunick had more than one 2nd Gen Camaro. In his book he mentions building a '72 Camaro for AJ Foyt. He sold it a few years later. The '70 was not mentioned at all.

BTW... The car I posted the image of on page one of this thread was Smokey and his Black and Gold 1970 Race car- that he had in his stable in addition to 1970 VIN 500001,- so nobody jumps to conclusions as to roll cages and modified quarter panels.

Smokey Actually had 2 1970 cars prior to the 1972.

[William]

My point all along.

Looks like he did nothing more than dismantle it.

[Kurt S]

I remember that it was sent to Smokey later in the year for a project that never happened.
The Mecum auction mentions lots of test parts - is there documentation that ties that testing to this car?

[70 copo]

According to David Tom:

"While I had the Chaparral, (#2 Camaro) I contacted Jim Hall several times. He confirmed that he went to the GM proving grounds to test a Camaro for aerodynamics. He said the test car was silver. During the test which was conducted because Jim was having trouble balancing the front and rear down force on the race car he was testing at Rattlesnake Raceway behind his shop in Midland Texas, Hall said that they used a 1970 Firebird rear spoiler center section and crafted two end sections to make a tall spoiler for the proving grounds test. This story is confirmed in one of the early Camaro books (I think it is "The Great Camaro" by Michael Lamm). Anyway, my Camaro has the holes that were made for that test, and I bought two of the three pieces of the prototype spoiler from Smokey's estate.


Tom continues:

"The car was sent initially to the GM proving Grounds (Chevrolet Engineering) and became a test bed for many of the racing options. It was then sent to Smokey Yunick and he was instructed to run tests on all of the various components for homogenization of 70 and 71 race cars. The FIA required that all sedan-based race cars to be eligible for FIA Groups I and II racing have the major components be certified as "production" items of Service replacement item available "over the counter".

"Yunick came in possession of the car as part of a load of GMC trucks he picked-up in Detroit. He told me what he was to do with the car. That was to run tests on the car on his 80-mile county road "test track" inland from his Daytona Beach, FL shop. He told me it was a "big block" car with all the high performance goodies. His tests were, as I discovered later, to get the 454 L-S6, four-wheel disk brake, M-22, cold air hood, and other special parts for the FIA approval to race such a car in the FIA Groups I & II sanctioned events such as IMSA and the Group II European championship. I have a copy of those papers. and I have all of those special parts, including the special four-wheel disc brake rear end with the emergency brakes still intact." The following all were purchased directly from Smokey Yunick or his estate:

1970 Camaro VIN 123870N500001 Body with parts listed below
Sub-Frame (2);
One with only the number 1 stamped into the sub-Frame rail and metal tag (unreadable)
One with the number 43070N1 stamped into the frame rail

All sheet metal, grill, glass, trim, radiator support, inner fenders, all interior trim except front seats, fuel tank

Steel hood with special fiberglass under hood plenum for cold ducted air from in front of radiator. Modified by Smokey Yunick to test his High/Low pressure theory of ducted air.

Clutch, brake, and acc. Pedals, floor shift, hole cut in floor with welded-in shifter riser. Steering column with no shifter mechanism

Door compliance tag with info: Mfg. date: Nov 1969, VIN 123870N500001

Complete dash panel, plastic, black, no A/C, no evidence of radio installation, had gold overspray on the black plastic, heater controls but no heater

Instrument panel cover #3972962 CAV #1

Radiator Harrison L-88 type: stamped: 3155316 68L, white sprayed stenciled “CHAPARRAL” on top, bottom, & inside

Tall Rear Spoiler COPO 9796 Center section No casting marks or numbers
End piece with grinding marks to fit and match with rear quarter panel of VIN 1 above

Complete Rear end “JL-8” following information on unit:

52 D 2 9 Z 06521-B CON 1
Large Trans-Am style lugs, emergency brakes, aluminum wheel centering hub extensions, 11 inch rotors ventilated, sway bar mounts, panhard bar mounts, finned aluminum rear cover with cooler fittings, with calipers installed

Right Caliper Delco Moraine inner ½ # 5452281 D1 outer ½ 5452284
Left Caliper Delco Moraine inner ½ 5452281 outer ½ 5452284 D 4 28

2 each 8 X 15 inch Minilite magnesium wheels modified to fit inside rear fenders with JL-8 rear.

Oil Cooler Harrison with shipping Box # C/0 EX 43264-160

Plastic front grill with markings: CAV 1 and part number in marker 3967175

Front disc brakes system Corvette style all components including spindles, rotors, calipers, pads, hoses, and fittings:

Spindles: Left G cast K 9 stamped Right J 2 cast, P602 stamped

Hub and rotor assemblies’ # E220 both sides GM 271

Calipers right: dual pin no markings Left Dual pin inner ½ # 5489589 outer ½ 452273 4 D 352


Springs Front: metal tag #0-322974 code S288 Load 1593 Rate 305 & 0-322974 code S288 Load1616 Rate 312

Springs rear: #33865 340#, 33866 300#, 33867 266#, (all spares) on car: two each with no numbers and de-arched

Driveshaft: stenciled with following info: 906022-45.82-MOD 56-8845 PENSKE all in yellow sprayed stencil and stamped: 28-30-?2-7400 (the question mark is probably a B therefore: 28-30-B2-7400

Lower “A”-arms: large A on bottom and 1 A 2 4 on inner lower lip stamped

Left interior Door panel black vinyl with following info: Paper tag glued to cardboard backing panel: part number 9814787, style 12487, Com 711, serial “PILOT”, tag #008,
Label 100, STD. PK, QUAN 1, LT QUAN **, “FOUNDATION”, Then bottom portion torn off.
Stamped into cardboard backing panel “8800085LFF 9 05

Right interior door panel: Stamped into cardboard inner panel: “8800082 R FF 9 05

Interior plastic trim panels;
Left C panel interior 8800404 LH (Fisher Body logo” S REV 10
Right C panel interior 8800403 RH, Fisher Body icon, S, REV 10

Interior quarter trim panel black:
Left, 8800411 Fisher Body logo, S Rev 9
Right 8800410 Fisher Body Logo

Taillights and housings, with all lenses and rubber seals intact. Both units are black plastic with silver paint applied on the reflective surface. Each has a paper sticker glued to the inside of the housing reading:
Right side: Guide Lamp Division Anderson, Indiana Part No. 911304 (3772-02) With two boxes to be checked one reading “Hand Made which is checked and the other reading Production Tools which is not checked, followed by the words “Does (Not) Fit Contour Gauge and then a line for the craft to write 3 of pieces indicating 5 pcs, followed by a line for “Date” with written info of “10-16-69 and then the name of craft written-in “SIBER”
Left side is the same except Part number is: 911303 (3773-01) and the craft’s name is “Sibery”

The Clutch pressure plate and bell housing are all aftermarket, although I did get a GM belhousing as part of the acquisition Part # 460486 GM 2


M-22 Transmission Part number cast: 3925661 US Patent 3088336 General Motors Corporation, Stamp: “22” in large type then “POT01C”, No VIN, Painted in Red Oxide, Large course input shaft, large output shaft, and bracket for Competition shifter (Hurst Competition Plus shifter acquired at same time.


LS-6 454 cid 450 HP engine complete from intake to pan. Except on pulleys and accessories: Casting # 3963512 HI PEF PASS, Date code L 3 9. Pad # stamping is unclear but appears possibly to contain: 1 or 18 or 19 or Z 18 or Z 19. The number 1 is the only clear stamping on the upper block face.

One other stamping on front of block beside timing cover to the right is a “0” or “O”

Other casting identification: CONV 1 on upper rear
HIPER PASS on rear
6T on bottom side near oil pan boss
“GM 6” on rear
HI PERF PASS 6 with “K” near oil filter
F 8 PASS HI PERF under timing cover

Heads:

One has the following:

GM1T HI PERF date code K 28 9
Stamped 1522 on outside front face

The other has the following:

GM5T HI PERF date code L 6 9
Stamped 1522 on front outside face

Aluminum Intake # 3963569 no date code

One set of custom-built headers with 4 individual tubes into 4 horizontal tubes exiting under floor into a single collector into what appears to have been chambered exhaust."

[70 copo]

In summary: The story says that Chevrolet first used this car as a test subject at the proving grounds, and then provided the car to Yunick to continue the same tests.

If I am understanding you guys you are saying that in reality no testing occurred while the car was in Yunick's possession and the car was simply taken apart then?

[William]

Quoting from the March/April 1995 Camaro Enthusiast:

"David is in the process of rebuilding this Camaro back to stock condition as it was shipped to Smokey Yunick before it was dismantled for race purposes."

"He said that he had old shell sitting in the back of his shop. I asked if he would sell it to make a replica of his '70 Trans-Am race car."

"I had this historic car that I was planning to build as a replica race car..."

"He then disassembled the car to make a race car out of it. The Camaro sat in an open shed and in a lot until I bought it in 1989."

Jim Hall is quoted as saying the Chevy test car was silver. The Yunick '70 body was paint code 17, Shadow Gray.

Same car, two very different oral histories. Which story best aligns with the photos of the 1970 Camaro body purchased at Yunicks' shop?

You be the judge.

[70 copo]

. Which story best aligns with the photos of the 1970 Camaro body purchased at Yunicks' shop?

The story that has supporting documentation I suppose. Also the story in Camaro Enthusiast is incomplete as drive train components and FIA documents were purchased separately that were officially endorsed by the Yunick sale as haring been used on the car.

As an aside, the Black and Gold race car that got built in 1970 at Yunick's shop was raced by Suede Savage.

[70 copo]

More:

[70 copo]

Admittedly Shadow Grey looks silverish.... Kinda like Evening Orchid can resemble Cortez Silver.

Here is the car as restored. Not taking sides here-just presenting the car "as is".

[William]

I have the 1970 FIA docs also. They were prepared by Chevrolet and did not specifically apply to individual cars. Has nothing to do with this or any car.

There two stories here, from the same source. Believe the one you want.

I think the body tag says it all.

[70 copo]

There are many ways to display this car today. While Yunick had it he built the car in several configurations.

Rumored are LS-6, Small Block with a Cross Ram, COPO Spoiler, etc... .

The car left Chevrolet at Norwood as a base 6 cylinder as part of the assembly pilot production build.

Car then made it's way to Yunick's garage and then decades later was sold at auction as a disassembled tub with the front end loose and no drive train.

This is what I believe. It is pretty simple.

[Charley Lillard]

I have the 1970 FIA docs also. They were prepared by Chevrolet and did not specifically apply to individual cars. Has nothing to do with this or any car.

There two stories here, from the same source. Believe the one you want.

I think the body tag says it all.
Is that the orig. body tag ?

[70 copo]

It looks questionable.

[70 copo]

It is a fact that VIN N100002 did not have a body tag.

[iluv69s]

Do not like the cowl tag at all...looks like rivets never punched also???

Any opinions?

[Kurt S]

I asked him - David made up the tag. There was no tag originally.

He also tells the story like all the parts were with the car, but they weren't. It's possible those parts are for the car, but that's not a given.

There are many ways to display this car today. While Yunick had it he built the car in several configurations.

Rumored are LS-6, Small Block with a Cross Ram, COPO Spoiler, etc... .

The car left Chevrolet at Norwood as a base 6 cylinder as part of the assembly pilot production build.

Car then made it's way to Yunick's garage and then decades later was sold at auction as a disassembled tub with the front end loose and no drive train.
I agree with this except I'm not seeing the evidence of different configurations. Chevrolet reputedly sent it with a BB and he tested it that way.

This car was always a bit of conjecture, IMO. I don't think there's work orders that solidly tell a story, so it's pieced together (both the story and the car).

[70 copo]

The breaking point on the car for me was when a guy tried to convince David Tom that there was a Small Block with a Crossram- installed at Norwood- with the car being pushed down the line. That's total BS, but soon the configuration content timeline blurred to include the factory where the car was discussed as some sort of performance factory pilot project.

The car applied to attend the 2013 Norwood Gathering but the retirees rejected the car.

[70 copo]

The CrossRam story was introduced to the hobby by a guy from Tacoma WA, in 2007 over at Nasty Z..a guy with only 3 posts on the board.

I was giving the car the benefit of the doubt until the story got totally ridiculous.

[Kurt S]

Yikes!