70 Z/28 Fair offer

[wiiildcat]

My buddy asked me if I was interested in his 70 Z. I'm a mopar fan but cool old cars are cool old cars lol. Asked him what he wanted and got the make me an offer spew.
70 date code 350 out of a caprice, m21 hugger orange, super solid with paint flaking. Runs and drives like it should, better than I would have thought. Dont want to rip him off but dont really need it either. Was thinking of offering him around 18 or so, am I out of line?

[Crush]

Man I like it and would buy it for 18 if all metal is solid. But I will let experts weigh in.

[southernfriedcj]

I think he could get low 20's - 25k if he tried CL or Ebay, depending of how bad the paint looks in person.

If it was local for 18k I would be on my way over to check it out. I'd love to have a driver quality '70 Z/28 at a great price.

[wiiildcat]

I think he could get low 20's - 25k if he tried CL or Ebay, depending of how bad the paint looks in person.

If it was local for 18k I would be on my way over to check it out. I'd love to have a driver quality '70 Z/28 at a great price.

So 18 not insulting him then.

[L78steve]

If you dont really want it then you have to bid with your heart.
Someone who really wants it will always pay more.
Offer the 18, he can always say no.
But if you flip it for a profit that isn't nice if he is a friend.

[70 Forest Green Zee]

Looks like a fairly nice car if you can buy for 18K but FYI, just so you know several things in the interior are not from a 1970 Z28. Steering wheel is not from 1970, the 1970 steering wheel was a 1 year only item, upper door panels are not from a 1970 Z28, and the seat belt warning light in the center of the dash is not from 1970. that didn't appear until 73 or 74. Just thought you may want to know before you make a decision on whether or not to buy.

[BCreekDave]

I like the color, but it is a bit "red" for Hugger orange. For 18K unless the body is terrible its hard to go wrong. Wonder if it is a real COPO spoiler car? The build date is late enough for one. Originally a vinyl top car.

[Billohio]

Looks solid for 18.

[wiiildcat]

I like the color, but it is a bit "red" for Hugger orange. For 18K unless the body is terrible its hard to go wrong. Wonder if it is a real COPO spoiler car? The build date is late enough for one. Originally a vinyl top car.

It is kinda reddish in real life also, but it has to be repainted, some is coming up in big pieces . The door jams look more hugger.

[wiiildcat]

Looks like a fairly nice car if you can buy for 18K but FYI, just so you know several things in the interior are not from a 1970 Z28. Steering wheel is not from 1970, the 1970 steering wheel was a 1 year only item, upper door panels are not from a 1970 Z28, and the seat belt warning light in the center of the dash is not from 1970. that didn't appear until 73 or 74. Just thought you may want to know before you make a decision on whether or not to buy.

thanks for the info, have no idea whats supposed to be on one of these. None of it bothers me but nice to know if I decide to take it on.

[L16pilot]

From the pics, the car looks straight with nice alignment and gaps. Any under hood photos? Good luck if you decide to buy and keep us posted.

[CamarosRus]

Not original engine
How long might list be of misc wrong/missing pieces
Most owners want a paint job not flaking off $$$$$$$$$$$
Buy that car for $18K plus decent/good paint youre into
it ?????? How much WITH OUT born with eng.........you
could easily be under water.....

[69LM1]

Id say 18 is a good fair price for both of you even with the issues it has.

Its a real z, not a rust bucket from what it seems, desirable color and a 4 speed. Autos seem kiss of death in these cars.

Phil probably has a better eye than me, but I like the set to that rear spoiler. Look for a built sheet! (COPO) or pull an end cap and look for an AO Smith stamping.

My .02

Rich

[wiiildcat]

Great info and suggestions. Going to ponder on the purchase and talk to my paint an body buddy see how deep Im going to be in paint and such. Thanks for all the feed back. For the eng. shot all I have is this. He did tell me it has a 69 Z intake on it now, but he has a 70 intake for it.

[wiiildcat]

also, there is a splash of green on the cowl area that had me wondering???

[L16pilot]

The under hood pic is revealing. 26" radiator with the small radiator cover and shroud and small opening in the radiator support. Pass fender is later 74-? which is pretty common for later NOS items. Can't be sure about the drivers' side, but I'd be willing to bet it's not original either without the W/W bottle mount. Normally, I'd guess fenders and rad support were replaced due to rust, but with the small 21" radiator cover and shroud, it could have been due to a front end collision. Again, not knowing the history, it's only speculation.

[L16pilot]

Hmmm...I'm rethinking the probability of front end damage. Driver's inner fender looks correct for the '70, but you'd really need to check the inner fender front extension. If it has a round indent depression approx. 5" or so diameter, but no hole in the middle, it's a 70 and would be correct for the June build date. If it has a hole in the center of the depression, it's likely 71-73

[wiiildcat]

Man you guys are good! So if I buy it, just paint an spruce it up then drive the wheel's off it, and enjoy it. Do not try to make it correct because it's just not that kind of car. The thing drives excellent, tight crisp not a hot rod but respectable.

[southernfriedcj]

Man, I never find good deals on cool cars. I did just steal two Unimogs though.

[scott s]

seat belts are not 70 either i believe..

[Billohio]

How can you tell on passenger fender date, the oval recessed area on the inside edge?

[L16pilot]

The indent was created as a punch-out for the 75 air cleaner duct (photo below) and from what I understand, entered production in late '74. Regardless of 74 or 75, it is long after the 70 model year ceased production.

[L78steve]

We know who to ask for 2nd Gen. info.

[L16pilot]

"We know who to ask for 2nd Gen. info."

I learn something new every day and am blessed to have patient and very knowledgeable friends in the hobby that that know more about 2nd Gens that I ever hope to...so thank you Joey G, Mike S, Scott K, Rick G, Ron L, Dino G, Jon H, Tom P and Chuck. they're the best of the best.

[CamarosRus]

Assuming car had front end collision damage with misc non 70' replacement parts....hard to understand why interior is cobbled together with wrong year parts also......

Obviously it's a buyer's call at how he values this "driver" 70-Z28....

Depending upon the cost of new paint and whatever else you change or improve....you know have a $$$$ ????? driver that's worth how much to the next guy.

[Billohio]

I have a set of nos fenders i will have to see what i have

[x77-69z28]

I got an nos fender with my 70Z project, and it has the oval indent. Now I have to figure out what I did with the original one!
Buddy

[L16pilot]

Buddy - Tom Petrasek is in Huntington, NY has a beautifully restored Cranberry Red 70Z and it scored really well in Legends. If you'd like someone local to you that knows 70 Z28s, I can put you in touch with him.

[L16pilot]

Just to add to the data pool, here's a photo of an 06A 74 Z28 showing the passenger fender indent.

[ronzz572]

I got an nos fender with my 70Z project, and it has the oval indent. Now I have to figure out what I did with the original one!
Buddy

Just to add a little more information on the NOS fenders, they can be modified very easily to make correct. Weld in, fill the indent. Also there are a few holes to deal with. They need filled in also near the battery area. And add 2 holes drilled in mid way back for air conditioning bracket mounting. All OEM fenders got them. I don't have a picture to post. Maybe Chuck or Steve can share some pictures.The drivers fenders on the inner front can added on to mount the washer bottle. Usually a cut off from the original.

[Charley Lillard]

My 02C 74 Z28 without the indent.

[70 copo]

That's correct. The indent was a mid year design change. Early cars did not have it.

[JRSully]

Tom Petrasek is a good friend of mine (we live in same town here on LI). his 70 Z is truly perfect. If anybody needs anything (pics, info) let me know and Ill reach out

[Crush]

Tom Petrasek is a good friend of mine (we live in same town here on LI). his 70 Z is truly perfect. If anybody needs anything (pics, info) let me know and Ill reach out

Was that car for sale at one point?

[JRSully]

don't believe so, has had it for a long time

[69ss]

Agree

[MN 70L78]

Does it still have the original Trans & 12 bolt rear axle? Axle tube should be stamped COZ or COO.
The car looks like a nice driver quality car but has several incorrect things to being a correct car. If those items don't matter to you and just want a car to have fun then $18K is in the ball park (provided it doesn't have any rust issues) I wouldn't pay more than that. Some of the incorrect items can be changed/corrected over time. My guess is the 3 piece spoiler was added when car was repainted.

The changes on 2nd design front fenders can be welded up & corrected if you're getting the car repainted, only if you're concerned about being correct.

The small opening in radiator support should be opened up for better cooling.

[Jonesy]

My 03C 1974 z/28 with the indent. Original 33K mile car

[GM Powertrain]

Solid, driver quality car but enough discrepancies that in my humble opinion it appears to be more like a solid $15,000 purchase.

[MN 70L78]

That sure helps narrow down the date between late Feb or Early March on when the change over was for Indent on RH fender!

[L16pilot]

"That sure helps narrow down the date between late Feb or Early March on when the change over was for Indent on RH fender!"

Agreed Scott...what amazes me more is the indent so early in production for an assembly (air cleaner intake) that didn't show up until the 75 model year.

[wiiildcat]

I think I am going to pass, my heart just isn't in it. And whose idea was it at GM to make you put it in reverse to get the dang key out? Was kind of embarrassing at the gas station lol.

[southernfriedcj]

I think I am going to pass, my heart just isn't in it. And whose idea was it at GM to make you put it in reverse to get the dang key out? Was kind of embarrassing at the gas station lol.

Dang, I'd be all over that car at 18k. I did a regional CL search last night on '70 Camaros and a total POS non Z28 has an ask in the high teens.

edit: I don't have any room in the garage, but does you buddy like Jeeps?

[Crush]

Dang, I'd be all over that car at 18k. I did a regional CL search last night on '70 Camaros and a total POS non Z28 has an ask in the high teens.

edit: I don't have any room in the garage, but does you buddy like Jeeps?

Pm sent

[BCreekDave]

"That sure helps narrow down the date between late Feb or Early March on when the change over was for Indent on RH fender!"

Agreed Scott...what amazes me more is the indent so early in production for an assembly (air cleaner intake) that didn't show up until the 75 model year.

Sometimes they do these things based around tooling rebuild cycles. The inner part of the inner fender may have been needing maintenance and this change may have been planned for quite awhile. The tool went down and that was the best time to do it. Maybe the air cleaner part wasn't ready in 74 so that delayed the final install.

Whats kind of weird is the requirement for the indent. It probably would have been just as functional with just a blanked oval hole in the flat panel. The punch tooling for the die most likely did not locate from the indent. More likely it was in the prog die that locates from other features in the strip anyway.

[70 copo]

Grabbing the air from the fender area was needed due to the catalytic converter.

Consistent warm up control was desired and attempted with THERMAC, stove pipes from the exhaust Manifolds and other smog junk during the tune for emissions era starting about 1971 during the corporate run up to the Catalyst era.

Converter technology was technically ready at GM in 1971 however Lead had to be phased out of fuel first since lead is a converter bed poison so the government set unleaded fuel as a phase in for 1974 which cleared the way for the converter in 1975.

With the converter actually installed in 1975 reliable warm up became the key to maintaining the efficiency gain that the converter provided so that is why we see the funny ducting from the fenders to the carbs in that era.

[Kurt S]

$18K seems like a deal for a nice driver.

Btw, the consistent warm-up was required for catalyst light-off. They were probably failing the cold start part of the emissions test and trying to limit variables - back before they really could analyze & understand the combustion process.

That's also why catalysts kept moving closer and closer to the engine - they are now within inches.

[70 copo]

Perhaps one of the best road tests of the period before the term "Lemon's of 1972" were coined - was the Car and Driver road test of the 1971 Camaro Z-28 published in May of 1971. Tune for emissions was in full swing and Performance was affected so much on the subject test car that GM was asked to comment, where they admitted to C&D that the engines were leaned out for emissions when new.

[Ricks72Z28]

Interesting, I need to look at the Firebirds and see if they had that indent also...

[wiiildcat]

Thanks for all the help and info. Another buddy of his bought the car.