View Full Version : New (very old building) shop
Finally came up with a solution for my workshop. I have posted in the past about building a work shop. I was really dreading the experience, partly because I am in a historic district and was really struggling with how to build and not make it look way out of place. I bought the building next door to our house a couple years ago, and let the local Red Cross office there for free. I also bought the two lots on the other side of that building (used to be a Sinclair station there years ago) and was planning to build on those two lots. But, like I sais, I was not looking forward to it, and there were some space considerations as well.
Anyway, to make a long story short (may be a little late for that), there is a commercial warehouse building about 120 yards from out back door; built in 1928. Pretty rough, and right down by the rail road tracks. But, it has three huge doors 13 foot ceiling on most of it, and 16 foot ceiling on the lower level. Over 5000 square feet, so lots of room. It is not clear span, but the supporting posts are far enough apart, it wont be hard to drive cars around. May be able to get some pics this weekend. The lower level is about 1500 feet, all new concrete floor. Plenty of room for a lift, and still put another car next to it. Owner is going to let me move in that part of the building right away. He just needs to remove two car hauler type trailers that are there now. I agreed to give him 6 mos to move everything else out of the rest of the building. I can sell the Red Cross building and the lots and pay for this building, so almost a wash.
So, ASAP I plan to install my Aamco two post. I already have my first project lined up; taking two cars to make one. Will start another thread about that one. It isn't what anyone thinks of when they thing muscle cars, but in a way will involve one of the very first muscle cars, predating the GTO by about 7 years.
L78M22Rag
03-01-2018, 06:30 AM
Hey, congrats on your new old building! Given its vintage and being located in a historic area... I’m guessing it likely has a great character! Looking forward to seeing this unfold.
m22mike
03-01-2018, 10:40 AM
Cool Lynn, looking forward to seeing some photos.
Mike
mockingbird812
03-01-2018, 11:05 AM
Can’t wait Lynn 😎
Xplantdad
03-01-2018, 12:07 PM
Cool stuff for sure!
Keith Seymore
03-01-2018, 12:07 PM
Cool Lynn, looking forward to seeing some photos.
Mike
x2.
K
Jonesy
03-01-2018, 06:12 PM
No pics? :dunno:
Ryan1969Chevelle
03-01-2018, 06:34 PM
By memory this is the place you wanted but thought was not going to happen?
Ryan
Will take some pics this weekend. Pretty rough old building, but will suit my needs.
Ryan: No, my first choice is tied up at least through August. I really don't think it will ever happen on that building. It is almost as big as this one, and is clear span, but has some other issues. If, by some miracle, it becomes available for a decent price, I can always make a play for it and sell this one. We will see.
Promised some pictures. Some are not loading. Says they are too large. I thought I dummied them all down. The wooden door is on the west wall. That is the same wall Sherri is staning by on the outside. That wall is over 50 foot long. You can see that they blocked it in with cinder blocks, but left the old wooden sliding door on the inside. Also took a few pics of the original windows on that West wall.
The West end is the area I plan to make my initial work space. That West wall runs at an angle. The other three walls are square to each other. North wall is 105 feet, North wall is 105 feet, and the South wall is about 130 feet. That gives you an idea of the angle of the West wall. The work space is 22 feet at the narrowest part (North) and 45 feet at the widest part (South). Hope I got all the directions correct.
Will try to post some more in a bit.
This is where I plan to work for now. Floor is in very nice shape. It is on the West end, and sits lower than the rest of the flooring. The East 1/3 is all new concrete flooring as well. The middle is wood flooring. Old planks with OSB sitting on top. It is very sturdy and level, and they have been driving cars and trucks on it for years. Took a couple of shots of the supporting beams and stones that are setting on hard pack and bed rock. You only have to go down about a foot to hit bedrock here. Same as at my house. I had to use a hammer drill and drill about 100 holes in some rock to be able to chip it out with a pick ax, so that we could plant a tree a couple years ago. Six foot deep hole by 6 foot wide. I wanted shade the next summer. Tree (Shawnee Brave Cypress) is 30 foot high now.
Also took a pic of the old RR ties that are about 5 feet from the back (West) side of the building. The train still runs, but the new tracks are about 50 yards to the West now. I am not sure what year they moved the train tracks, but these were apparently still in use in 1936, as I pulled out two 1936 dated nails from a couple of ties further down this line. The old tracks have mostly been pulled, but remain out at the street. They just left them and put asphalt right over them.
Will post some exterior pics next.
The East end and part of the South wall are partially earth sheltered. I looked at the building last Mon. morning right after a weekend of almost 3 inches of rain, and there was not water intrusion, so it is sealed up relatively well. I plan to do some more dirt work to make sure water is being diverted away from the building.
I think the first few pics are of that East wall, which is about 50 foot.
Then the South wall, which is the long one, about 125 foot. All the windows have bars mortered in. There are 8 skylights. Guy I am buying it from had a commercial roofing company. He used to have his office in this building. The roof and skylights are in good shape.
Sadly, the North wall is just tin, instead of brick. I am thinking I may wall off that West end so that all I need to heat is that small area. There is some insulation on parts of the North wall, but not much. The thought of trying to heat the whole 5000+ foot building with a tin North wall does not appeal to me.
L78M22Rag
03-04-2018, 12:35 AM
Lots of character in that stone, brick work and the interior timbers... great potential!
Congrats
luzl78
03-04-2018, 01:28 AM
that building is awesome! i would have all the muscle car guys you know and then some park outside and in and get an awesome group shots of all the cars.also rent space for all the muscle cars that need storage.
Xplantdad
03-04-2018, 02:47 AM
Neat stuff so far, Lynn!
The Boss
03-04-2018, 11:57 AM
Very cool - best of luck with the new shop.
Tenney
03-04-2018, 03:50 PM
Lotta cool texture in there, Lynn!
SS427
03-04-2018, 03:55 PM
That is pretty cool!
Spooky
03-05-2018, 01:26 AM
Congrats! Wish ya luck!!! They do fill up quick
Tracker1
03-05-2018, 02:35 AM
That is a great space Lynn - character oozes out of that place.
Ryan1969Chevelle
03-05-2018, 11:49 AM
Love the new/old building!!
I assume winters are not as intensely cold as up here? May be easier to keep warm....
Ryan
We see zero F from time to time, but overall, not nearly what you are used to Ryan.
markinnaples
03-05-2018, 01:18 PM
Such a cool building and as stated, it oozes character. Put several hot rods in the shop and in front and you have awesome pics from the 1930's to the 1960's.
Finally found some time to do some work on the workshop. Besides my time constraints, I was waiting until the seller got all of his stuff out. Part of the deal was he could take up to six months to vacate. He got out a little early. Left my camera down there yesterday so can't post any new photos.
However, that big post right in the middle of my workspace is now gone. My brother cam and helped on Sat and Sun. We built temp supports, removed the post, and threaded in two 18 x 2 x 28 foot LVL beams, screwed together. It was a challenge getting beams that weigh 324 pounds a piece 16 foot into the air, keeping it up there while building the end supports and getting it all attached safely. We actually raised the middle part of that roofing over an inch from what it was while resting on the center post.
Space is 45 by 35 by 23 (actually a bit larger, but rounded it down. This pic is looking South at the small door (10 x 10). That South wall is 35'. The East boundary of my work area is 45 foot, so the shop area is 45 deep. The large door is 12 x 12 and faces North. Plan is to expand that door to 20 x 12 and install an insulated rollup. Ceiling slopes from a high of 17 foot down to about 14 foot so lots of head room. Plan to wall off the East boundary of the work space so I can HVAC just that area. Don't want to HVAC the whole 5200 feet. I mean, I like my cars, but hey they don't need air conditioning.
Sherri and I unloaded our new Aamco 7k pound two post lift Friday evening using nothing but pry bars, floor jacks and wood blocks. She said it was easier than expected. Did I tell you I am married to an angel? It is setting up at the front of the workspace right now. There is no rebar in this concrete, so I need to pour a couple of really thick reinforced pads to mount the lift. Will start busting out concrete on Wed nite.
Have a full day tomorrow, but will do my best to get some pics up by the evening.
Lynn
That space has great character. Looking forward to seeing it completed.
Hard to tell how large those LVL beams are when looking up 17 feet. Each one is 18 inches thick.
Quite the trick to get those put in there and supported on each end. They each weighed 324 pounds. Had to put temp supports up to hold the roof while we removed the old center post.
scuncio
08-16-2018, 12:17 AM
How did you lift those into place? Awesome looking shop BtW.
Thanks Tony
You want the short story or the long story?
Short story is we slid one onto the scissor lift. I crawled under the beam, drove it to where the old post was threading it through my temp posts (had less than 1/4 inch to spare on each side of the lift between my temp posts). Capacity is 500 pounds. I weigh 170 and each beam, after trimming to fit, weighed in at 302 and some change, so pretty close to capacity. Up it went until we got it close enough to wrap six ratchet straps around the old beam and the new beam. Cinched it up a bit, then muscled it upright and cinched it up tight. Put on temp metal straps to keep it there, ran a few screws just to keep it from sliding sideways, and did the same thing with the second one.
The whole project took about 10 hours, which included 3 trips to the hardware store.
Be glad to give you the long story, but most guys would get bored reading that much. Plus, given the nature of the work, I took zero progress pics. Just too busy getting it done to take pics.
67ssonly
08-16-2018, 01:17 AM
I have to say that place looks amazing.Angeis are nice to have on your side
scuncio
08-16-2018, 01:40 AM
Wow Lynn, that's pushing the envelope alright. Sounds like something I would try!
Thanks Tony
You want the short story or the long story?
Short story is we slid one onto the scissor lift. I crawled under the beam, drove it to where the old post was threading it through my temp posts (had less than 1/4 inch to spare on each side of the lift between my temp posts). Capacity is 500 pounds. I weigh 170 and each beam, after trimming to fit, weighed in at 302 and some change, so pretty close to capacity. Up it went until we got it close enough to wrap six ratchet straps around the old beam and the new beam. Cinched it up a bit, then muscled it upright and cinched it up tight. Put on temp metal straps to keep it there, ran a few screws just to keep it from sliding sideways, and did the same thing with the second one.
The whole project took about 10 hours, which included 3 trips to the hardware store.
Be glad to give you the long story, but most guys would get bored reading that much. Plus, given the nature of the work, I took zero progress pics. Just too busy getting it done to take pics.
Canuck
08-16-2018, 04:16 PM
Nice work,I can relate to building work and improvising.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll49/paulolds/shop114_zpssgblj4dx.jpg (http://s285.photobucket.com/user/paulolds/media/shop114_zpssgblj4dx.jpg.html)
Yea, nothing is plumb or level. Originally this was a three sided building where coal was stored after being delivered by rail. That is why the North side is corrugated metal.
Of course, I have seen the Taj Mahal bathroom you guys did on your place. Don't expect anything close to that on my build. My building doesn't even have hot water right now.
Haven't posted here in a while. Bummed by the red tape. Decided to go ahead with the things I can do without a permit.
Busted out a bunch of concrete last weekend, and poured concrete yesterday; got things cleaned up today. Concrete work went well, and I now have two nice pads to instll the lift. Have to wait 30 days to install my two post lift (used Ammco), but it is ready. Now, need to install a non-load bearing wall on the lower third. Talked to the City building inspector, and he says I don't need a permit to erect an interior non load bearing wall. Using a stem wall, so I can wash the floor with a hose without hitting sheet rock. Will post some pics of the latest work, and what is planned.
A12pilot
12-23-2018, 12:41 PM
Man, live it, Lynn! There is soooooo much potential there!:shocked:
Looking forward to the updates. That’s the one beauty of the county I live in. Our builder asked us to have the septic permit ready before we started construction. So, down to the courthouse we went. After a 30 minute conversation with the county clerk, sheriff, and mayor...they asked what they could help us with. So, I say we need a permit to put in our septic system. They replied, “There is no permit, just a final inspection.” To which I replied, “Our builder needs a permit to start construction!” So the clerk looked at us and said! “Do you want a septic system?” I replied, “Yes.” To which she replied, “Then it’s permitted. Have a nice day.”:dunno::blush::shocked:
Good times.....:wink:
Cheers:beers:
Dave
As stated above, poured some new concrete last Friday.
Part of the new pour was a couple of 5 x 5 pads for the lift. The existing concrete was thick enough, but not reinforced. Poured these pads a foot thick, with 5/8 rebar. Lots of soil compaction to make certain they never settle. Thought I had to wait 30 days to start lift install, but turns out I just need to wait 30 days before using the lift. Install can start after four days.
So, with my angel of a wife helping me, we got one upright set up today. Didn't take long at all once I figured out the plan. I drilled for the anchor bolts, but could not bolt it down today as we are awaiting shims. I did drill all six anchor holes, using the base plate as the template. Didn't have the shop vac or air blower to blow out the holes. We decided to leave the gantry crain hooked up to it until the shims get there. Once we get shims, we will anchor this one, then move on the the left upright.
Added a couple of pictures of the excavated holes for the lift pads, and the big one I had to fill in where I removed the pillar.
Haven't posted in a while. Ran into some really weird issues, and will update later.
For now, I just got my permit to allow me to (among other things) enlarge the garage door opening for the shop area. It is currently 12 x 12. I want it 16 wide. Not sure if the height matters that much to me. I will never pull an RV in there. I have a 14 x 13 at the other end of the building for storage.
My life would be easier if I could go 16 x 10 instead of 16 x 12. Any big reason not to go 16 x 10?
mockingbird812
12-19-2019, 02:47 PM
Progress is progress. My only input for the height of the door is this: When I built my shop in AZ back in '04, I purposely built a door that would accommodate an RV (14' tall x ~10'? wide) even tho I had no intention of ever having one myself. Purely for resale reasons. Well, I sold the place ('15) and was able to tout that feature as a selling point. Sounds like you have another door that would accommodate a tall RV so this may be a moot point.
Keep yr updates coming Lynn...…….way cool project!!
Jonesy
12-19-2019, 03:13 PM
i have 10 high x18 wide on my garage. They are nice to have that wide for backing trailers etc.
I personally think 10' height is good in for most situations.
HawkX66
12-20-2019, 01:12 PM
You might not want to get an RV in there, but what about an enclosed car trailer?
Good point Dave. I doubt I will ever need to pull one in. I could just back up to the door and unload it into the shop. How tall is a typical one car car hauler?
Looked at this one: https://www.trailersplus.com/Oklahoma/Tulsa/Enclosed-Car-Haulers/trailer/4RAVS2422LC051698/
Overall height is only 9 foot. I do not ever anticipate having to pull in anything bigger. If it is bigger, it will have to go in the other end of the shop, where I have a 13 foot high door.
muscle_collector
12-20-2019, 09:17 PM
I would suggest getting one with the "V" front to cut down on wind drag. plus you get extra room for storing the spare tire etc...
I am not planning to buy an enclosed trailer. Just wanted to see if it would fit in my new doorway.
Measured today, and using the two 16 LVL beams I have, I can go 10' 4" without having to remove the old header, which will make this go a lot easier for me. Thanks for the comments.
Promise to add some more updates soon. I am working feverishly to get as much done as possible before Jan. 23. I am having reverse total joint replacement on my left shoulder. Once that one is healed, I need total joint replacement in the right shoulder. Sucks getting old.
Promised more updates on the shop. Not sure how to update this. So much has happened, and thankfully, I changed directions on this. You will see why.
Have to explain the layout of the building. It is 45 feet wide. The East end is square. The West end is not. The South wall runs about 125 feet, and the North wall about 105 feet. So, for you math guys, it is a left trapezoid with one wall perpendicular to the two parallel walls.
I had planned on using just the West end as a two bay work space with one lift and a flat bay area. Would have been about 1400 feet, albeit in a bit of an odd shape.
The floor was already concrete with virtually no cracks, except around the pole I removed making it a clear span area. The flooring just to the east is the original wood floor (building was used for coal storage in the 1920’s). 2 x 12 joists on 16 inch centers with 2 x 6 flooring planks. Previous owner was driving cars on it, so it was plenty strong. But, I wanted to wall off my work shop area so that I could heat it in the winter. I can stand the summer heat, but not the winter cold. The only ventilation for the crawl space was out to the shop area. You can see the crawl space in the first three pics below. First one is looking East from the North end of my work area. The building has no crawl space ventilation on either side. Well, not DESIGNED ventilation; but plenty of air gaps in the tin siding on the North. It was VERY damp under the wood floor. I mean really damp. I bought a bunch of steel grates to place strategically in the floor and was getting ready to wall that area off. Then I got greedy. Wouldn’t MORE shop space be better? Of course it would. So, the next plan was to remove about 1/3 of that wood floor. I planned to concrete it on the same level as the work area, so that I could store welding equipment, gantry crane etc. and be able to roll them over to the work area.
At first, I started pulling nails one at a time. Screw that, get the circular saw, and cut each floor board even with one side of the joist, and just use it as leverage to pull up the floor boards. Fortunately, one of my brothers was able to come over that Saturday and help. After removing about a third of that third of the floor, I noticed something black on the ground under the joists. I poked it with a pry bar, and found it to be a puddle of water. Talk about damp. No, not damp; wet. After removing enough of the flooring and joists that I could access the puddle, I stuck my pry bar all the way in. Didn’t hit bottom. Had my brother hand me a 6 foot piece of conduit; stuck it in. Still didn’t hit bottom. WTH??
We had uncovered a freakin artesian well. Pics below. No wonder it was always so damp under there. Went to Ace and bought a sump pump with float. Pumped it as dry as I could. Two nights later, we got ½ inch of rain. Thought I would go down to the shop and see if there was a couple more feet of water in the well. It was full again, after just ½ inch of rain. I have still not cleaned the well out completely (may find Jimmy Hoffa in there). There are pieces of wood at the bottom that are water logged. No telling what we will find when we finally clean it out. Hoping it was a wishing well. Photos of the well were taken about a week after we removed the flooring on that third. The well is bigger than it looks in pictures. It is 36 inches in diameter.
We have since discovered that this building was NOT the first structure on this site. However, it is apparent, they had no building codes to speak of in 1919, or someone just didn't pay attention. They built this building right over an existing well. I have discovered remnants of at least two footings from previous structures. We are less than 60 yards from the rail road tracks, which have been in the same place since before the land run in 1889. So, this may have been used as a spring fed water source for the trains. More to come.
mssl72
12-23-2019, 05:59 AM
Wow, that's cool!! I hope you get somebody local to metal detect the dirt before you pour concrete. You never know!
We dug up whiskey bottles, old Coke and Pepsi Bottles, a steam kettle, 5 pistons (approx 5 inch bore) and myriad other odds and ends. Did not sweep with a metal detector.
scuncio
12-23-2019, 02:30 PM
That is insane! Do you think your building had been previously configured to allow access to that well? I can't imagine they would have just built a new structure over that.
Pretty sure they build right over it. Those joists are typical 2 x 12 from 1919. Slightly thicker than a modern 2 x 12. Very straight grain Douglas Fir with zero knots. I will take a pic of an end cut. You would not believe how many rings per inch. Old growth wood. You would think they would all be rotted from that moist environment, but there was only about 5 % rot.
m22mike
12-23-2019, 05:32 PM
Those very tight and small rings are defiantly 1st growth timber. I have a few scraps of 1st growth doug fir 4x6's. Interesting.
Mike
mockingbird812
12-23-2019, 06:38 PM
What a treasure trove of coolness! I know this throws a wrench into progress, but what a cool side story for your neat building. Keep us posted Lynn!!!
njsteve
12-23-2019, 09:33 PM
You know, of course, that every horror movie starts with the finding of one of these wells...
I love these kinds of movies!
Keep posting updates...
if you aren't too scared !
m22mike
12-23-2019, 09:50 PM
Be cautiuos Lynn, Nessie might be in that well....:naughty:
Zedder
12-23-2019, 10:32 PM
Very cool Lynn...I’m tired just thinking about all of that work!
A12pilot
12-24-2019, 12:36 AM
Your own a well!?!??!!:eek2: Man, I’m jealous! “Hey Lynn, what’s going over there?” “Oh, nothing. Just drinking some water out of my OWN WELL!!l”:eek2::eek2::eek2::smile::smile: Not many people can say that!
Do you think this could be the Money Pit they’ve been looking for on Oak Island but can’t seem to find? Maybe they just need to look further South!:bs:
Progress forward!!!
Cheers:beers:
Dave
firstgenaddict
12-31-2019, 01:17 AM
The train tracks directly beside the building were in all likely hood a siding not the main line.
Having had rail service and having looked at buildings from the early 1900's with rail, they were not directly on the main line, there were switches and siding tracks.
FWIW
https://www.okc.gov/departments/utilities/about-us/okc-water-history
OKC Water history... after the LAND RUN in 1889 there was ONE WELL and you had to bring your own bucket.
The town purchased 14 wells and pipes in 1908 but they went dry in the summer... so they started planning the first lake in 1910 and opened in 1919.
May have been part of the original water system... or just a private well.
PERSONALLY I think the whole thing is cooler than the other side of the pillow... I just love old brick buildings.
I am going to try and slowly bring this thread up to date. Most pictures were taken with my phone or Sherri's phone, so I spent some time last weekend transferring to my computer. I think the last picture I posted was of the newly discovered well.
I had already shown where I broke out some of the old concrete which had no rebar, poured new pads with 5/8 rebar every foot it two directions, and had to fill in the massive crater from when I removed a support post. Seems like a lifetime ago when we took out the post and put in two 28 foot long LVL timbers to create a clean clear span work area. What caused the crater? The concrete under the post was 18 inches thick. Even without rebar, it was pretty stout. I broke it down as far as I could with a 10 pound slege. Had to pull the last chunk out with my gantry crane. Here it is in the back of my El Camino. I am guessing 1200 pounds, give or take.
I ended up hoisting it out of the El Camino, then winching it up onto my trailer to haul to the free dirt and rock dump.
You can see from the first picture that we removed about 1/3 of the wood flooring. I took no steps to salvage any of the flooring planks. The nails were really long, hard, and partially rusty from the moist environment. So, I just sawed down the joist lines creating 16 inch boards out of that 100 year old 2 x 6 douglas fir flooring which had no knots. I felt bad throwing it all away, but pulling nails one at a time was just too time consuming. We removed that first third of flooring and the underlying joists in less than a day.
Originally, I was just going to remove that one third, build a wall, and leave the rest. But, when I found the well, it was too close to where I needed the wall. We decided to remove it all, and concrete the whole area, creating additional work spaces.
I have some great friends here in Guthrie that REALLY wanted the flooring. They are restoring an old barn. You cannot find wood like this anywhere at any price. No knots, very heavy, with as many as 40 rings to an inch. I told them I had a couple of young bucks who work cheap on Sundays, and my friends agree to pay them to pull it out, one nail at a time. Took them three sundays to get it all. You can see the progress after one Sunday. Those 2 x 12 joists are still in place in the middle third section. Set my progress back three weeks, but I was glad to see the wood get repurposed.
For some reason, when I transfer photos from my phone to the computer, they end up flipped 90 degrees. Even when I flip and save they still come out wrong, so I apologize if you have to lean your head hard to the left to see the pics.
What do you know, the pics stayed right side up.
And James is correct. The RR tracks that are just a foot behind our building are part of a spur that came off the main tracks. The main train tracks are still in the same place today as they were in the 1800's. Even the depot is still there. Very cool old building that a young couple is renovating. One of the best steak houses in the State is now in that depot.
There is still a spur that operates a few hundred miles to the South. That is where the local lumber yard has the train bring in lumber.
m22mike
01-04-2020, 12:55 AM
How are you going to seal up the well Lynn ? The floor joists are awesome.
Mike
After getting the flooring removed (finally) I started dragging dirt out with my little tractor.
That's when this happened.
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=154656
I got to split my first tractor. Actually, went pretty well with a crain and a floor jack. Easier than pulling a car transmission to replace a clutch.
BTW, tractor has performed flawlessly since. Good thing; we really needed it in the next chapter.
ZLP955
01-04-2020, 05:36 AM
Very cool feature, that well. A local restaurant here was doing renovations a few years back and they found an old convict-built well under the floor. Owner decided to make a feature of it, so they installed lighting down the well-shaft and put a load-bearing glass lid over it. Always draws newcomers and regulars alike for a peek down there.
Going to back up just a bit here. When we got the building, there was a large mezzanine that was open on two sides and had this large sliding red wood door. We removed the door (I saved it and all of the antique hardware because it looks really cool) and dismantled the whole mezzanine. It was a nasty dirty job. I looked like Al Jolson in black face when we were done. Didn't think I would ever get cleaned up. At least we got it done in one day.
You can see the sliding door in one pic and just the lower part of the mezzanine in the other.
I was undecided on what to do. At first I was just going to wall off that lower level and use it as my work space. Here I am shoring up some of the floor supports. The floor joists were in pretty good shape, but the stone suppors (mostly sand stone) had deteriorated over time, allowing them to sag quite a bit.
Fortunately, I decided to remove part of the wood flooring.
That brings us up to speed to March of 2019. That is when we removed the first third and discovered the well.
mockingbird812
01-10-2020, 01:56 PM
Doing it right Lynn! Groty work.....someone’s got to do it!!!!:wink:
The next two months were really interesting. I was starting to question my sanity for getting into this project. It there is an artesian well that fills up after just ½ inch of rain, that means there is a LOT of ground water. Pouring concrete over swampy land is a disaster waiting to happen. It gets worse. May was one of the wettest months in Guthrie history. Fortunately, our building was just above the area that flooded. We are just East of the RR tracks, close to the train depot. The depot and our building were safe. Everything West of the tracks flooded. Some buildings had 4 feet of water.
My warehouse is less than 100 feet from the RR tracks. These pics were taken from just the other side of the RR tracks, so about 125 feet from our warehouse.
All the rain didn’t help us at all. We ended up with standing water everywhere in that floor. Oddly, the lower floor that was already concreted showed no signs of moisture. The underground spring apparently crested right where the wood floor had been. During the heavy rains, the power was out, so no sump pump was going. Here you can see the results.
Pretty discouraged at this point. On a side note, all of the support columns were leaning several degrees. Fortunately, the pilasters under neath each one had a lot of extra surface area. We repurposed some of the old floor joists to reinforce each of the support posts. We did that before the heavy rains, so the ground was wet and soft, but you could still walk on it.
At first, we just cut a few shallow trenches by hand to get some of the water flowing to the drain pipe or the well. You can see evidence of some of those hand cut trenches in the pics above. I just needed to get some water moving out of there. It was either that, or stock it with fish.
Crush
01-11-2020, 04:48 PM
Subscribed!
Got the sump pump going again, and started pumping out water. The hand dug trenches and sump pump helped start drying it out a bit.
The plan was perforated drain pipe. Sherri and I eventually trenched for 380 feet of perforated drain pipe. I started with a trench down the South side of the building, to give an exit path for the water. I had to hand dig a trench down the side of the building (no room for a trencher or mini excavator) and bore a 6 inch hole in a 13 inch thick retaining wall to shed all the water. I spent 10 hours breaking out asphalt, concrete and digging clay on Memorial Day. You can see the pipe laying in the trench in the first pic below.
In the second pic below, you can see where I cut out some of the existing slab so I could run the pipe outside that South door and down the side of the building. I have it circled.
While busting out concrete and digging, I ran into an old footer for what must have been a previous structure on the site. I had to saw cut that footer and chip the pieces out one dime size piece of concrete at a time; took two days to get deep enough. I can only saw cut 4 inches deep at a time. So, I would run a bunch of cuts, chip it out the best I could, and cut some more, until I was down a full 26 inches below grade. As soon as I got that path cleared to the pipe out the side of the building, more water started migrating out the side. At this point, I am not sure if this is going to keep me young, or make an old man out of me.
Between the trenches and the sump pump, the groud was drying out pretty well. Still muddy; but I was able to get my little tractor in there with a box blade and start pulling out dirt and rocks.
Crush
01-12-2020, 12:52 PM
Got the sump pump going again, and started pumping out water. The hand dug trenches and sump pump helped start drying it out a bit.
The plan was perforated drain pipe. Sherri and I eventually trenched for 380 feet of perforated drain pipe. I started with a trench down the South side of the building, to give an exit path for the water. I had to hand dig a trench down the side of the building (no room for a trencher or mini excavator) and bore a 6 inch hole in a 13 inch thick retaining wall to shed all the water. I spent 10 hours breaking out asphalt, concrete and digging clay on Memorial Day. You can see the pipe laying in the trench in the first pic below.
In the second pic below, you can see where I cut out some of the existing slab so I could run the pipe outside that South door and down the side of the building. I have it circled.
While busting out concrete and digging, I ran into an old footer for what must have been a previous structure on the site. I had to saw cut that footer and chip the pieces out one dime size piece of concrete at a time; took two days to get deep enough. I can only saw cut 4 inches deep at a time. So, I would run a bunch of cuts, chip it out the best I could, and cut some more, until I was down a full 26 inches below grade. As soon as I got that path cleared to the pipe out the side of the building, more water started migrating out the side. At this point, I am not sure if this is going to keep me young, or make an old man out of me.
My back is sore just looking at the pics! Well done!
Finally dried out enough by late June that I could trench. Time to rent a trencher.
What a beast. Pull start motor that tended to kick back from time to time.
Because the ground was so soggy, I had to lay boards on top for the trencher to ride on. We saved the worst section for last; right by the well. I was about 1/3 of the way through, when one of the boards slipped out. The trencher immediately sunk into the wet clay about a foot on that side. It was hopelessly stuck…. Well almost. It was 9 p.m. on Sat. nite. I had been trenching since 8 a.m. Well, to be fair, I picked the trencher up at 8. Probably didn’t start using that “spawn of satan” machine for another hour or so. The trencher was tilted about 30 degrees in the mud. Trying to get it out under its own power was futile. I dug down under the sunken track, and was able to insert a 2x8 under it; Still would not pull out on its own. So, I tied several ratchet straps to it, hooked it up to the tractor that was over on concrete flooring, and gave Sherri some quick tractor driving lessons. With Sherri pulling, and me giving it all the gas and pulling for all I am worth, after three attempts, we got it moving. It took me nearly an hour at the car wash and about 25 quarters to get all the mud off of it. I finished up about midnight; had to have the trencher back to the rental place at 8 a.m. Sunday morning. How bad to I want this shop?
Sorry, but no pics of this disaster. We were both too engaged in surviving the day to stop and take pics.
All the trenches had standing water. But, they were all draining into the pipe I had laid next to the building, so we were on the right track. The next two weekends were all about lining the trenches with landscape fabric, putting in a base of 1.5 inch gravel, laying the perforated pipe, connecting all the pipes, covering with gravel, then closing in the fabric, filling with dirt, then hand tamping it all down. I also installed a permanent automatic sump pump in the well, and plumbed two inch PVC into the drainage pipes. The pump comes on about once every 15 minutes for maybe 6 seconds at a time. The drain pipe going down the South side of the building to the West of the building drained constantly (not a drip mind you, a slow continuous pouring of water 24 – 7) and the place started drying out. We got a couple more heavy rains. Sadly, there was one area that would still collect water. So, I hand dug one more trench in that area, dug up some of the previously installed pipes, and connected it all together. We had in excess of 380 foot of perforated drain pipe in all. After the next heavy rain, I was really anxious when I went down to check on things. Finally, the entire dirt floor area was dry, even after a heavy rain. There was hope.
You can see from this shot that when the PO had the upper floor poured, they trucked in loads of sand for a base. The “solution” to keeping the sand in place was to place a lot of boards between the upper floor and the old wooden floor. MUCH of the sand had migrated out, going down under the wood floor.
We needed a retaining wall if I wanted a concrete floor on that lower level. Also, those two brick supports under the two wooden support posts were crumbling. If you look closely, you can see that we used some of the old floor joists to shore up the tilted wooden posts. The floor joists were probably overkill for this, but they were free. They are about 2 to 2.5 times as dense and heavy as modern wood, and there are no knots.
Look at the pic below. The floor joists are the darker wood. They are dead plumb. You can see how tilted the old posts are. Fortunately, the concrete pilasters at the base of each pillar (original to the building) are large enough to accommodate the extra wood.
In the second pic, I have removed the crumbling brick bases that went between the pillar and the wooden posts. I built temporary supports for that part of the building during the process. I sawed off the bottom of each post. I did not take pics, but I build new supports out of 4 inch steel posts (1/4 inch thick walls) welded to steel plates on each end. When we poured the retaining wall, we encased all the steel in concrete.
Wow quite the project. Have enjoyed following along.
napa68
01-17-2020, 03:33 PM
Don't get discouraged! While my recent project is not near the same magnitude as yours, the fight between weather and contractors had me wondering WTF am I doing? It seems as it is a real struggle to spend real money sometimes.
Looks like the building will have some real character when it's done. That's something you will never get from a pole shed!
Tim
We built a frame to hold a concrete retaining wall using ¾ inch plywood and a bunch of 2x4 stiff backs. After hand tamping a ton of 1 inch gravel in the bottom, I lined it with a boat load of 5/8 rebar. You can see some of the framework below, but I did not get a pic of the completed form. I ran a string line across and made certain it was dead level before forming. I had 2 x 4 and 2 x 6 struts running to 2 x 4 stakes. There was a strut every 16 inches.
We rented a pumper and pumped in 9.5 yards of concrete. The wall is 45 feet long, 18 inches thick, and about 24 inches high. If you do the math, you will see that doesn’t even come close to requiring 9.5 yards. Where did all the extra concrete go? We pumped it under the existing upper slab.
This job went really fast. Gotta love the pumper. Beat the hell out of wheeling it in.
That wall will be the base for a non load bearing wall between the upper and lower levels. Even though “J” bolts were not required for an interior non load bearing wall, I put a bunch in there. Upper level is just for storage. That way, I only need to heat the lower level. Getting that wall in was a real turning point for me. I was finally believing we could get this done.
I had one small area that bowed out maybe a half inch. No one notices but me.
wheelhop
01-18-2020, 12:56 AM
Nice job. I certainly think that under-pinned section (depending on the re-bar pattern used) would be able to support a heavy load. While you're at it put in a concrete underground tornado shelter in time for spring twisters!
m22mike
01-18-2020, 01:16 AM
Looks great Lynn :biggthumpup:
By September, things were looking pretty good. I used a 50+ pound tamper to pound in the ground over all of the trenches. I ran some conduit into the well so I could run an extension cord in there for the sump pump. As stated earlier, the sump pump is plumbed into the drainage system, so I wouldn’t need an external hose running across the floor. There is ALWAYS water coming out of the drain to the West of the building.
When I dug the last trench, and plumbed it into the other drainage pipe, I put a little floor drain in right where it all comes together. I went ahead and concreted around that floor drain. I am putting up a sign over it to indicate “no waste” as it drains to a waterway. You can see that 2x2 pad with the drain in one of the pictures below.
Sherri and I built a 6 foot by 6 foot frame around the well. The top of that frame is perfectly level, and the plan was to pour concrete right up to it. After the slab was poured, then I would take care of concreting around the well. I normally do my own concrete work, but a 45 x 25 slab was more than I am equipped to do. Sherri pleaded with me to hire it out, and I have to tell you, it didn’t take much convincing. Both of my shoulders are worn out. I have no cartilage in either one. Doing all this work with shoulder joints that are bone on bone is taking a toll. I still wasn’t willing to give up control of the work around the well. I did some research on man hole covers, and decided to treat it the same as if it were a giant man hole.
I contracted with a local firm. I talked to an acquaintance that owns the largest independent auto repair shop in the area. He had to relocate a few years ago because of new road construction. They took his old building by Eminent Domain. I looked at the floor in his new shop, and was impressed with the quality. So I hired the same guys he used.
I bought a roll of fabric underlay. This is the thick woven geotextile you see them placing under the gravel base on new interstate highways. I also bought a roll of 15 mil vapor barrier, along with the necessary tape to seal the joints in the vapor barrier. If we ever get 10 inches of rain again, I wanted the vapor barrier to force the water down into my drainage system, rather than have it wick up through the concrete .
I had them excavate (there wasn’t a LOT of dirt left to come out) to a uniform depth of 8 inches. Then they laid down the woven geo textile; then 3 inches of gravel. Compact the gravel. Then lay on the vapor barrier and seal every joint with tape. Finally, re-mesh, and pour concrete 5 inches thick. It was kind of a pain, but they did a good job. You can see a flap of the green vapor barrier sticking out from under that little 2 x 2 pad I poured around the drain. They had to join that part to the main part. They also had to extend the vapor barrier under my 6 x 6 frame. If you look closely, there are no external stakes on that frame. The closest stake is at least 4 inches inboard. I suspended the whole thing from the inside, so they could tuck enough of the vapor barrier underneath, and I could tape to it when I did the concrete inside. I did not want this system to fail. Even if the sump pump were to fail, there is a safety outlet for water to get into the drainage system before it gets to the top of the well.
Finally, in October, the new floor was poured. Took a lot of prep to get it here.
Pretty darn level for being a fairly large area without being able to drive pins. I specified no pins, as they would compromise the vapor barrier. New floor is 45 wide, 25 deep.
It is very level for 20 feet, then a gentle 5 foot slope to the existing floor on the lower level. Space for the gantry crane, welders, sandblast cabinet, grinder, etc. Even have room to park a couple of cars well out of the work area. That way, if I run into a snag on one car, I can roll it over to the side, and still use the lift and flats on other projects.
Still needed to contend with that big 6 foot by 6 foot square hole in the floor with a well in it.
What I had at this point was a new concreted work area that abutted the existing concrete work areal. The old area is all clear span, thanks to the massive double 18 inch LVL beam that we installed and an even larger cable supported beam set up that was done some time before WWII (the big one, as Archie Bunker would say). The first pic below shows how they replaced two (2) support posts with the cable tie system. That would be interesting to watch.
To go clear span on the entire work area would have required new construction to the point of meeting all modern building codes. I don’t believe we even had a modern building code when this was built in 1919; and I sure wasn’t willing to try to bring this structure up to modern standards. May as well bull doze it and start over.
I posted the pic of the couble 18 inch LVLs a while back, but here is a reminder.
m22mike
02-02-2020, 07:36 PM
The cable beam is very cool :biggthumpup:
This chapter involves getting a manhole cover installed over my well. I believed that filling in the well and concreting over it would have resulted in a disaster. Instead, we kept the well and integrated in into our drainage system. I wanted to be able to service the permanent sump pump. I can’t tell you how many hours I spent staring at the darn thing. Even today I find it creepy and cool at the same time. Measured it about 100 times. My plans were dictated by the largest manhole cover I could find. Believe it or not, there is a foundry right here in OK that does both cast iron and composite. I definitely wanted composite, so that lifting the cover would be a one man operation. I also wanted LARGE so that I wouldn’t need to engineer a tapered cone system over the existing well. The stones come almost to the surface. A cone would have dictated removing many of the stones to get it to the correct height. If I left all the stones, then I only needed to engineer a concrete ring. Much easier.
I chose this one: https://www.ejco.com/rest/product/getproductdrawing/?region=americas&partNumber=COM380180A01&waterProduct=false
Pretty sure that link will not work if you are not logged in on the site. Converted the PDF to a jpg, and included a pic of the specs.
It was kind of funny when the delivery guy brought the manhole cover and frame the my law office. I had borrowed my son's Suburban to take it home, as it was too big to go into Sherri's Lexus RX 350. The driver asked me: "Why in the world does a lawyer need a manhole cover? We have a bet going at the loading doc. I bet none of them bet I was covering up an anitque well with it INSIDE a building.
After the floor was poured we were left with my 6 x 6 frame around the well. It took a while to get all the vapor barrier pulled through after removing the wooden frame. I am pretty certain that even a 500 year flood rain would not get the water this high at this point, as we have so much perforated pipe under the concrete, I can’t see it getting overwhelmed. In addition, the permanent sump pump would be pulling out water as needed. Ground water can be really weird though, so I wanted every precaution possible. We packed gravel in and hand tamped it with my super heavy home made tamper, then taped a 6 x 6 patch on to the existing vapor barrier (with a giant round hole in the middle for the well). I then made two rings out of Masonite; one larger than the other. I also made four rings out of 5/8 rebar to go inside the Masonite forms. That was a challenge without a bender. Used a vice mounted to my 400 pound steel work bench to bend the rings. I had to mortar a few bricks and stones in place before placing the rings and rebar. I then tied all four pieces of rebar together with short pieces in about 8 places so they would be evenly spaced around the finished ring.
Here is what we ended up with. The spec sheet on the manhole cover indicated it was 5 and 1/16” high from the base of the frame to the top of the cover. Either I measured wrong, or the spec sheet was wrong. The top of the cover ended up being about an 1/8 inch above the grade of my floor. Oh well, not much taper as you will see in the finished concrete. Still very easy to drive over. I think I am safe, as it is rated to support 50,000 pounds. Not planning on driving any tanks in there.
Now I had a nice clean, reinforced ring to attach the frame to. Then it was just a matter of pouring concrete.
Here is the cover ring attached with tapcon screws. You can see the 5/8 rebar we placed and connected. I didn’t have chairs for the rebar, so we just held it up with rakes until a little over half of the concrete was poured.
I needed almost a yard of concrete. That is about my cut off for deciding between redimix delivery and mixing it myself. But, I decided I wanted to do it on a Sunday, and no delivery available. So, off to Ace Hardware for a pallet of concrete.
I mixed 46 bags in a wheel barrow with a shovel. Only took a couple of hours. Sherri kept the bags coming off the trailer while I mixed and dumped. She also kept pulling up the rebar to get it closer to the top. It doesn't reinforce much sitting on the bottom.
Although I was done pouring after a couple of hours, this stuff took forever to set up. I was down there at 11:30 pm finishing it off.
markinnaples
02-03-2020, 12:44 PM
Finished product looks great, nice job.
scuncio
02-04-2020, 02:43 AM
Amazing work, looks awesome.
A12pilot
02-04-2020, 11:11 AM
Looks great, Lynn! Man, I had to mix a few bags of the redimix stuff making a pad for the split A/C system for Kelly’s tack room. What a pain. And mine didn’t seem to turn out quite as nice as yours.:hmmm: Actually, the Freemasons showed up and after the laughter ceased, they took my membership card.:blush::eek2:
Looking good!
Cheers:beers:
Dave
Well, I THOUGHT I would have all kinds of time to update on my workshop after my shoulder surgery. Oh well. Kept finding things to keep me busy.
I have this very cumbersome 12 x 12 sliding door to my work space area, where I have the two post lift. It is a giant pain (literally) to open and close. The part of the wall that I have circled in the first pic is completely rotted out behind the corrugated tin. So, I decided to open that up, frame out for a roll up door, rebuild the wall, reinforce with OSB, and then install some siding. Got my permit, and started to work.
The next few pics show how bad that wall was. In the third and fourth pics, you can see I had already started removing some of those bricks that were added at some point. I managed to smash BOTH of my thumbs. As i write this three months later, neither is completely healed yet. Those bricks came out really easily. 30 inches down I ran into another old footer. At least there is something solid under there.
The rest of the South wall (left of the door) was deteriorating something fierce. The brick stem wall was crumbling, and the bottom 1 to 2 feet of the 2x6 studs was all rotting away. Here are some before pics. If you think you could just reach down there and pull out some bricks, well you would be correct.
I needed to build a frame for a 16 foot wide roll up door. I also needed to support that part of the roof while I was doing so. So, I built a temporary wall with 2x6s with stiff backs on them. Then, to keep that wall from racking, screwed OSB to it. I placed some of the old floor joists (100 year old Douglas fir with no knots) on the floor to spread out the load and screwed a 2x6 to the ceiling for a temporary top plate.
This all went up real fast using a scissor lift and a buddy who helped me for a couple of hours. Also put up a couple of shoring posts under the existing door frame just for insurance.
Oops; forgot the pics of the South wall to the East of the door opening.
Next, I needed to pour some substantial footings to support the walls just outside of the roll up door frame.
I had to break out some serious concrete. Whoever poured the old floor, just poured it 5 inches thick. However, by the door way, some of the concrete was 11 inches thick. I cut it up the best I could with my concrete saw, but it only cuts 5 inches deep. I got out the 10 pound sledge and hit that first piece of slab 35 times (yes, I counted… I was going to quit at 100) before I saw the first little crack. No wonder I am feeling old.
Got the concrete all busted out at the East end of the door way. On the West end, it was just a matter of removing the crappy brick job someone did many years ago. Those bricks were not original to the building, so done some time after 1922.
Started digging down for my footers. I wanted to go minimum of 30 x 30 x 30. I was a little apprehensive given all the ground water that was under that old wood floor. I was prepared to put in ANOTHER drainage system, especially considering how unusually wet we were last year. To my surprise, I never hit water. Finally, something went right. Dug down 30 inches on the East side of the door way. Removed bricks on the West side until I hit an old footer at about 2 feet. I don’t know how wide it is, because I didn’t care to excavate just out of curiosity. I was already tired of digging. Whatever it is, it is wider than 30 inches, so I figured it was plenty strong to hold the new footer. I drilled a few holes with a 5/8 masonry bit and hammered rebar in those holes to tie the two pieces of concrete together.
First two pics are of the East end of the door before digging, but after removing the slab.
The rest of the pics are of the holes, rebar and poured footers. I talked the local concrete guys into delivering 1.5 yards on New Years eve morning. Met the driver at 7:30 and were done pouring by 8. Its great when they can just back up the truck and start dumping. As you can see, I wet stabbed three ¾ x 16 anchor bolts for my bottom sill plate to bolt to.
At this point I am getting a little nervous. I haven't even ordered the door yet, it is New Year's day, there is a two week lead time on the door, and I am having major shoulder surgery on the 23rd.
Poured mini stem walls a couple days later and attached sill plates. I had to open up an area for my door header, but couldn't knock out the whole wall West of the door or critters (and thieves) would have free reign of the shop, and I already had a bunch of stuff in there.
I bought two 16 inch by 2 LVL timbers 20 foot long to build my header. A bit of overkill, bit I hate saggy buildings. Besides, my labor on this deal far exceeds the extra $180 bucks for going double.
In these pics you can see my sill plates are in place. On the West side of the door, I am still working around part of the existing wall that will come out. This way, I can still close up the shop during construction. The roll up door is going to be in the inside of the wall, and the old sliding door is on the outside, so they don't interfere with each other.
Pics.
The shaded part of the concrete will all get busted out and a new approach poured.
Before we started on the frame, I spent a good 4 hours tuck pointing that vertical wall. I would not be able to get to that mortar once the framing was up.
Next, I had to figure out how to get two 18 foot 16x2 LVLs up there. First, I put screwed a 2x8 to the bottom of the old header (well, as much as I could… that header did not extend all the way across; it came up short on the West end.
We were able to set the LVLs on top of the scissor lift, get them hoisted all the way up, then put jacks underneath to push them up tight. I secured them temporarily with some 10 inch timber screws from above, along with a few steel straps just to be sure they wouldn’t fall.
After securing a 2x6 on the bottom of the LVLs, I quickly used three floor jacks with temporary posts to get the header up really tight. We then started building the king studs on the sill plates. Four 2x8s is for sure over kill, but why not?
After the door way was framed out, I removed the temporary wall. Here it is framed up. Now I could take measurements and order the door.
You can see that the two outside vertical studs don’t to under the LVLs. The one on the left goes up to an existing steel beam. The one on the right goes up to the wood beam that is under the steel beam. I didn’t want to attempt taking that beam down, so made the decision that a 10 foot high door was good enough for me.
At the other end, in the storage area, I still have a 12 foot tall door, just in case I want something really tall in there.
SuperNovaSS
03-23-2020, 03:00 AM
Lynn,
You are an animal and I mean that in a good way! Keep up the good work and the updates. It keeps me and likely many others motivated.
Jason
Now it was time to tackle that broken down wall East of the door way. I had to build another temp wall to hold the roof up, so I could cut off the rotted parts of the studs, and rebuild the brick stem wall. No building codes in 1922 to speak of, so there were NO anchors in this wall holing the bottom sill plate in. Not that it would have mattered. After I cut the bottoms of the studs off with a sawzall and removed the bottom row of tin, we just broomed off the sill plate. It was dust.
My good buddy Joe did the masonry work for me. I am comfortable doing brick flower beds, and tuck pointing. This was more serious.
I already posted some of the before pics of this stem wall. Here are pics of the progress.
Joe is just a prince of a guy. He works full time as an OKC Police officer. I believe he is on 8 days straight and then off 6 (don't hold me to that... but seems about right). He used to do a ton of masonry work, but has tailed off. Much easier just doing private security detail these days. He isn't as old as me, but is starting to feel the results of manual labor. But, he definitely isn't a millenial either (Millenials think manual labor was a Spanish war hero).
We were in a rush to get this done before my door got here and before my surgery. The weather would not cooperate. We got half done, but he had no more days off. The next Sunday we were expecting above freezing temps again, and Joe, great guy that he is, took off work a half day to finish the job. Then he got mad at me for paying him too much. Deal with it buddy.
Anyway, I got the wall rebuilt. There was no way to install proper anchors in that brick wall, as we only tore off the top 3 or 4 courses, down to where it was solid. So, when I put the pressure treated sill plate on, I just screwed tapcons through the sill plate and into the brick, at least one screw between each set of studs, and sometimes two. I was a little nervous when the City inspector came out to inspect my framing. He liked my 3/4 inch anchors in the NEW stem wall, and then asked about anchors in the old. I told him the building was built in 1922, there was no requirement for anchors at the time, and because I wasn't doing new construction, I did not have to comply with modern building code. Fortunately, he agreed. he gave me a few things to do on the "honor" system before I covered up around the doof frame with OSB. Good thing, as it was the 21st. Surgery was scheduled for the 23rd. I still had to go pick up the door at the truck terminal.
Got the door picked up on the 21st. Left right after the inspector left. One of the projects the inspector gave me was to nail metal strapping from the sill plate all the way up over the door header. Had to run to the home center on Tuesday the 21st, and luckily they had what I was looking for.
Jan. 22. Started nailing the metal strapping. Fortunately, I got help from my brother and my good friend Greg, along with his wife Sherryl. Greg has a fork lift. No way I am getting that door up there without a fork lift. It weighs over 500 pounds. Greg planned on showing up at 2 with the fork lift. It was crunch time (and both of my shoulders were doing a lot of "crunching" by now... after all, there is no cartelage in either one).
My brother came over in the morning, and he and I started putting up the OSB on the inside frame around the door opening. Meanwhile Sherri is uncrating the door. I should have downloaded instructions so I could read them before hand. Oh well.
Just as we were getting the supports mounted to the header, Greg shows up with the fork lift. He is a magician. Got it right up there on the first try, centered perfectly. From there it is just a matter of bolting everything in place. Greg had the fork lift back on the trailer and was headed home in about an hour.
I still haven't put the weather stripping on, and still haven't removed that little bit of dilapidated wall on the West end of the door way. From the outside, you can't even tell I have a roll up door yet. Still have to take the old one off, and remove that wall. But, I am not going to do that until we have some good weather. Boy, was I ready for a few days off when I had my surgery... the next day.
Crush
03-23-2020, 01:13 PM
Lynn
I thoroughly enjoy your updates and have huge respect for the preservation and restoration of an old building. I live in a house built in 1846 and know every inch of it and can tell multiple stories for hours about it. I always tell people it needed lots of TLC= “Tons of Lumber and Cash” and thousands of trips to Home Depot, hardware store, bank, chiropractor and ER and they have all been well worth it. I compare it often to the love of our vehicles!
Lynn- where did you get your building skills? Self taught?
Thanks for sharing and if I lived closer I would definitely be helping!
Thanks. Our home was built in 1902... as a Livery Stable. Always a challenge.
Mostly self taught. One of my brothers has been in construction his whole life, and he usually has answers when I am not sure.
Well, I see I haven't posted in forever.
Been too busy, but have taken some pics and will update soon.
Getting close to putting up siding on the North wall (other three walls are brick).
Lumber prices have gone through the roof. I was thinking of using Smartside, but being wood based composite, those prices are up as well. So now, Hardie planks are almost the same cost.
With the Hardie, you never have to worry about rot. The down side? Stuff is really hard on saw blades, and the dust is horrible. I will never work with it again without wearing a respirator.
So, if you had to put up 2400 sf of siding, which product would you choose?
RPOLS3
08-31-2020, 06:24 PM
Well, I see I haven't posted in forever.
So, if you had to put up 2400 sf of siding, which product would you choose?
Hardie - for the reasons you mentioned.
Crush
08-31-2020, 07:57 PM
My house is Hardie and it’s 8 years old. I did all the trim in composite as well. house was built in 1846 and I didn’t want all the upkeep of lap. It has held up well structurally and the color will need repaint in a year or 2
Looking forward to further updates and pictures. It's quite a unique project.
Charley Lillard
09-01-2020, 07:49 PM
We have Hardie Plank that we put up probably 28 years ago. Still holding up fine.
Nobody has Smartside? They have a 50 year warranty on the stuff, and it is a lot easier to work with. I won't be around, unless I live to 117. Sherri will put it on the market as soon as I croak.
Would sure like to hear from someone who has Smartside on their building.
napa68
09-02-2020, 01:35 AM
My house is Hardie and it’s 8 years old. I did all the trim in composite as well. house was built in 1846 and I didn’t want all the upkeep of lap. It has held up well structurally and the color will need repaint in a year or 2
.........and it looks killer!
Donnie
09-24-2020, 08:31 PM
Went with Hardie.
we need pics!
I know. I have been sleeping like 4 and 5 hours a nite lately. REALLY busy on three fronts, and that doesn't include time with family, which we always put first.
Holy Crap. I haven't posted pics since March!!! Slacker.
Well, can give you a short "update" from last spring. You have to understand that the day after we put up the 16 foot rollup door, I had complete reverse shoulder joint replacement on my left shoulder. So, for a while, not much was going on.
First couple of shots are from the North, showing the new door from the outside. You can see, there isn't much concrete in front of it. What was under it was actually pitched in toward the building. I had not planned on busting all of it out, but didn't want a lot of water intrusion, so I made the necessary cuts with that hellish concrete wet saw (easy for a young man to handle, I am certain; me... not so much), then busted it all out. Some of it was 12 inches thick. Thank God they didn't put rebar in it. I hit that first piece with a 10 pound sledge about 30 times before I got a crack. I know, sounding like a broken record, but it was thick.
Next pic shows where we poured the new approach. I have #5 rebar every 10 inches going two ways. Hope I never have to break this out!
Final few pics are of the short driveway. We poured it on a really hot day. It started setting up way too quickly, but we got it finished up OK. My helper is only 43 (my oldest son's age). He said of all the things I have taught him, concrete work is his least favorite.
Seems every time I load pics from my phone to the computer, the orientation is wrong.
mockingbird812
09-25-2020, 12:09 AM
Looks GREAT Lynn. Thanks for the update and hope your surgery went well!!!
It did. I am having the right shoulder done in Nov.
Xplantdad
09-25-2020, 12:44 AM
It did. I am having the right shoulder done in Nov.
Here's the two pics flipped
174728
174729
Last pic was of the wet cement on the approach.
Here it is a few days later. You can see that I had started forming for the next segment. I wanted a sidewalk the entire length of this North wall. Because I opted to not put in a ramp between the upper (warehouse) area and the lower (workshop) area, I figured I might need to move an engine block or other heavy item from the warehouse to the work shop. So, a nice wide (54 inches) sidewalk was in order. Besides, this way, when it comes time to side, I figured I could just drive the scissor lift down the sidewalk.
Well, I fubared that one.
Let's try again.
Hopefully HERE is a pic of the approach after it dried; along with the framing for the first part of the sidewalk.
Of all the concrete work I have done over the years, I consider this walk to be my biggest failure. It was too hot, I ordered too stiff a mix, and just could not get it skreeded as smoothly as I like before troweling. Still has trowel marks in it. Oh well, at least it is just a workshop and not my residence.
Apparently, it is still smooth enough to ride a bike on. That's one of my twin grandsons. I remember posting on here when they were born. Can't believe they are seven years old already.
luzl78
10-06-2020, 01:46 AM
How much is concrete per yard in Oklahoma?
This is where it really gets interesting. You saw earlier where I had to cut off the bottoms of all the studs (after building a temporary wall to hold the roof up) and have a mason rebuild the brook stem wall.
I was thinking I would be doing the same thing with the next two thirds of the wall. I was wrong.
This middle section was even less stable than the West 1/3 of the wall. Even before removing tin, there were sections I could swing in and out about 6 to 8 inches. I knew the studs were rotten; I didn't know how bad the stem wall was.
There was a small bathroom in this area. I decided to demo the whole thing. Poor construction, and not enough room for a deep sink. Sorry, did not take pics of the bathroom area before and after. Good news is demo is fast and relatively easy. Bad news? It was mostly what was holding things up on that part of the wall.
First pic is the toilet flange. You can see how bad the wood is on the wall. Most of the studs had already been sistered; and not very well.
Second pic is just outside where the toilet flange is. You can see the brick stem wall down there.... about a foot below grade. There was nothing bigger than a tooth pick left from the bottom sill plate it was so rotten. A few studs were just sistered directly onto the stem wall with no sill plate. At first I thought about just getting more brick and building it up even higher. But, the farther East we went the farther below grade the stem wall was, so that ruled out just building it up.
Time to get creative. Stay tuned.
Below that brick stem wall is a huge concrete footer. I don't know how deep, but at least another two foot below the brick. So, I decided the brick wasn't even that important. After sawing off the bottoms of all the studs, and removing some more tin (for room to work) we just hit each brick with a baby sledge; if it moved we took it out. When we got down to all solid brick, we just built an 18 inch wide form around it that was two inches taller than the inside slab. I made it the exact same height as the retaining wall that we put between the warehouse side and the workspace side. I drilled four 5/8 holes in the retaining wall and ran 5/8 rebar (#5 to you guys who know the lingo) out of that wall and into what would be the new concrete stem wall. We ran the rebar x 4 the entire length. Also tied into the concrete that is the drive under the east 12 x 12 door). That concrete is over 10 inches thick, and I didn't want to try busting it out.
First pic shows my second temporary wall (covers the middle third). Second pic I call three sisters. It is where someone had tried to sister studs.... twice. But they were still rotted. You can't put wood below grade and expect it to survive.
Next few pics are of the wall right after it was poured. For only the second time ever, I under estimated the amount of concrete. Had to make a run to the hardware store and buy 8 more bags to mix by hand. Ugh. I hate mixing concrete in a wheel barrel.
Last pic shows where I cut out the hideous concrete around the old toilet flange. It was horribly uneven. And besides, I needed a place to bring city water into the building. Did I ever tell you about my water supply? I really can't remember. Well, it is just a pex line running from a building four lots over through a chain link fence, then through a hole punched in my South wall (drilled really, not punched... the wall is solid brick and mortar, 19 inches thick) then snaking around to the shop over to the bathroom. We send the guy $20 every few months so we have water. Well, I got the City to put in a water meter and run City water to the North side of my building... but that's another story.
Anyway, that gray pipe you see sticking up is 2 inch conduit for the new City water line to come through. I ran a 6 inch conduit for the sewer line. The old sewer line just ran on top of the dirt and was partially exposed. Nice.
Got that wall poured. Notice the giant stakes holding the forms in place. 18 inch thick concrete builds up a lot of pressure when you are pouring and poorly reinforced form walls are a disaster waiting to happen. So I made stakes out of 2x4. Really took a lot to pound them in this rocky soil. Several layers of gravel, some asphalt and who knows what else. Many of them, I had to put a 20 inch masonry bit on the hammer drill and drill down just to make a hole to get the stake started. I am thinking I need Super Dave to come visit for a weekend, so we can knock this out.
Notice the gap in the anchors near the east end. Decided to install a pedestrian door there. Until now, you could only get into the building via a garage door.
This gives you an idea how bad the rot was. I had to cut 8 feet off the bottom of the studs in this section.
Guess I misplaced the camera about this time, as I have very few pics from this point on.
We still had a sliding door in the 12 x 12 entrance. Really heavy. The roof sagged about 4 inches above that door. I jacked up one end and built a temp frame for the West end of that door. You can see where I have four 2x6's screwed together, with a latch to accept the door lock. Obviously, the building is VERY susceptible to a break in. Fortunately, you can throw a rock and hit the police station. I would go by from time to time and ask the local constabulary to keep an eye on the place with an extra patrol each night. So far, so good.
First pic is the door brace from the outside; second from the inside. Last pic is of the new stem wall with the form removed. Notice I left all the 2x4 stakes out in the drive area. Figured to use them to reinforce the sidewalk form for the next step.
I can't find very many pics of the new stem wall after removing the forms. Probably on Sherri's phone. Here is one showing just the edge. Speaking of edges, it will probably be "on edge" rotated 90 degrees. Almost always happens when I transfer from my phone. I get them oriented correctly on my computer, but when I post, they come out 90 degrees off. BTW, I never could have done this without that scissor lift. What a life saver.
Had to wait for the plumber to rough in the toilet flange and vent stack before pouring the sidewalk and the small piece of slab for the bathroom.
It was about this time that we had some 80 mph winds come through and blow off about 1/3 of my modified torch down bitumen roof. Fortunately, insurance picked up the tab. Replaced that part of the roof with TPO. Really nice product. Almost makes me wish the wind had taken off all of it.
Wow. A lot of work there. Nice job your doing. I saved my moms 1.5 garage when I started the trade, I remember how much work that was, your project is huge.
markinnaples
10-06-2020, 01:15 PM
Congrats on getting all of that done, it's going to be killer when it's done.
And that's a great story about the old water line, lol, just throwing the guy $20 every month or so. Hilarious.
Congrats on getting all of that done, it's going to be killer when it's done.
And that's a great story about the old water line, lol, just throwing the guy $20 every month or so. Hilarious.
I can't take credit for that one. It was that way when we bought it. The guy I bought it from owns the other building that has been supplying my water. I knew I was going to have to pay for a water meter and water line.
scuncio
10-06-2020, 01:55 PM
Looking good!
That little blue pex line sticking up out of the ground? That's my new water line. About 110 foot from the building.
The plumber had to dig through a lot of asphalt and gravel to get it to the building. Good thing I have my dump truck (the 49 Studebaker) as he needed a boat load of sand to bury the pipe in; couldn't put all the gravel and rocky soil back on it.
Making some serious progress now.
Got the 400 amp service meter and panel set in. Electrician pulled 500 nmn cables on Saturday. Each cable is one inch in diameter.
I have the bath, kitchenette, broom closet and utility closet all framed out. Did 2x6 construction with 3/4 plywood on top so I can store stuff up there.
Have water to the building, but waiting on the plumber to finish running everything inside.
Latest pics I have, but these are over a month old. I will have time to catch up on the thread with more pics, as I am having my second shoulder joint replacement surgery tomorrow. Had the left one done in Jan, so this is the right one. Not looking forward to doing everything left handed for the next 6 to 12 weeks. I was able to type a little after just a week last time. We will see how it goes.
Figured 2020 already sucks so bad, that I may as well have BOTH shoulders done in the same year. What a way to start and finish.
Here is the 12.5 foot door on the East end of the North wall.
scuncio
11-24-2020, 12:29 AM
Dream shop!
Nice progress.
I forgot how red the soil is out there in OK....
Zedder
11-24-2020, 01:26 AM
Nice Lynn!
I could not have done this without my angel of a wife helping me out every step along the way.
She has helped me trench for perforated drain lines, build forms for concrete, pour concrete, frame walls and every other part of this. I am married to an angel.
Too Many Projects
11-24-2020, 01:39 AM
Well, I just spent over an hour reading this whole "adventure". I must say, you are one determined man. I would have run away, crying, after the well discovery and rain.
I've had a few lemons thrown my way over the years and am just winding down on remodeling a 24x45 pole building for heat with insulation and an overhead door conversion from sliders and I feel like I had a walk in the park with my shop.
That building is very lucky you came along and saved it. It's going to be a very nice place to work on automobiles next summer for you.
Hope your surgery goes well tomorrow and you are able to get some semblance of normal routine back quickly.
scuncio
11-24-2020, 04:15 AM
Lynn, best of luck with your surgery.
Too Many Projects
11-24-2020, 11:45 AM
I could not have done this without my angel of a wife helping me out every step along the way.
She has helped me trench for perforated drain lines, build forms for concrete, pour concrete, frame walls and every other part of this. I am married to an angel.
Isn't it great being married to the right person ? I have her sister. My wife has spent hundreds of hours helping transform my building too. She drives the forklift (which is 56 yrs old and a manual trans) while I did high work on the truss mods for the overhead door, helped put up 48" wide x 6" deep wall insulation, ceiling tin, fed well over 150 bales of compressed ceiling insulation into the shredder/blower, etc, etc.
Xplantdad
11-24-2020, 02:33 PM
Hi Lynn, looks great! Hope the surgery goes well.
Hoping we can meet up next April, too!:headbang:
m22mike
11-24-2020, 03:09 PM
It has been a long haul with the building and shoulder restoration's. Hope you can start to have some quality car time in there ASAP :biggthumpup:
Mike
Been a long time since I updated this. Almost TWO FREAKIN YEARS!!!!
I really am still working on this shop. My museum project is taking about 20 hours a week for BOTH me and Sherri, so time is tight. See: publishingmuseum.org.
Last spring I built four little rooms on the warehouse side; small utility room for my water heater, a bathroom, kitchenette, and finally a broom closet.
I don’t even remember if I posted this, but I put in a non load bearing wall between the warehouse side and the shop side. Split almost evenly; 2700 feet each side. The warehouse side will get “smaller” as my son and his wife are taking about 800 feet creating a small wood working shop. It will be pretty well equipped with table saw, compound miter saw, band saw, lathe, spindle sander, scroll saw and two dust extraction units. I have plenty of spare breakers on the HUGE breaker box that a good friend GAVE me. I checked the price on line, and it would have cost me close to $3k. It was left over from a huge commercial job he handled (casino). He was retiring and said he would never use it.
Took me over a year to convince OG&E to provide 400 amp service with 3 phase, but finally got there. The four wires coming into the breaker box are each 1 inch in diameter.
Hired a great guy to do all my electrical, as I had to have a licensed electrician pull the permit. Took him 6 hours to get those wires pulled in and turn a 180 to get them to the top of the box.
He and I worked about 8 weekends getting power everywhere we needed.
Had to run city water. Someone at the City must like me, as they didn’t even charge me to set a meter!!!!
Pics are of the four little rooms. They look better now. Kitchenette has a beer fridge and a micorwave. Had a leftover piece of granite that I cut myself with a gas powered concrete saw. My son was giving me grief for using granite in a warehouse. I told him it was free; if he could get me a formica counter top cut to size for the same price, I would forego the granite.
More to come. Really getting close, so need to post some more updates of this adventure before I am ready for a grand opening.
Threw in a picture of one of the dated nails from the RR ties on the West side of the shop.
Remember the saga of the well, then the man hole cover?
Well, I still had some water intrusion issues as a result of the parking lot to the South sloping toward my shop. When it rained hard the water would rush in under the seal of the garage door.
I wish I had take a couple of before pics showing how I formed out a drainage system. But, you can see from these pics how the forms were down in the ground, with wood blocks place down the middle to hold the forms out (so the weight of the concrete wouldn’t push the forms in.
Sadly, non of the ready mix places would deliver concrete to anyone without a commercial account for about a year. So, I bought 62 80 pound bags and mixed it one bag at a time in a wheel barrow. Got it done in one afternoon.
This trough runs into a pipe that runs out the same wall as the sub floor drain. Yep, that means another trip to the rental place to get a 6 inch core bit and giant drill with water cooling. Drilled another six inch hole in that 13 inch thick retaining wall. I am getting too old for this chit.
I did clean up the edge with a concrete saw and spread a little gravel there.
But, no more water issues (well, a little, but new gutters on the South side cured that).
Lynn, always enjoy the updates on your shop. A labor of love for sure.
Too Many Projects
10-26-2022, 02:12 PM
The drain grate looks great !! That was a lot of work for a guy your age...:cool2:
I'll say to you what I often hear..."you do a lot of work people half your age can't/wont do".
Must be the era we come from with the same work ethic...:biggthumpup:
When I was a kid, mom used to make me sit still for punishment. I still hate sitting still. Probably why I never go fishing. I have two brothers that sail a LOT. After about 3 minutes on a sail boat, I am ready to head back to shore. Boring.
Sherri and I both put in a 35 – 40 hour week in the law practice and financial advisor practice. We are spending about 20 hours a week on the Museum, although now that the fundraiser is behind us, that is slowing down a bit… until the next cycle comes around. I have already drafted fundraising documents for next year’s event October 12, 2023. We set aside minimum of 10 hours a week for family.
On a good week, I can put in 25 plus hours on the workshop, depending on how much of the weekend I can devote to it. Typically, I am spending about 80 hours a week working on SOMETHING.
Personally, I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Crush
10-27-2022, 12:10 AM
When I was a kid, mom used to make me sit still for punishment. I still hate sitting still. Probably why I never go fishing. I have two brothers that sail a LOT. After about 3 minutes on a sail boat, I am ready to head back to shore. Boring.
Sherri and I both put in a 35 – 40 hour week in the law practice and financial advisor practice. We are spending about 20 hours a week on the Museum, although now that the fundraiser is behind us, that is slowing down a bit… until the next cycle comes around. I have already drafted fundraising documents for next year’s event October 12, 2023. We set aside minimum of 10 hours a week for family.
On a good week, I can put in 25 plus hours on the workshop, depending on how much of the weekend I can devote to it. Typically, I am spending about 80 hours a week working on SOMETHING.
Personally, I wouldn’t have it any other way.
My 92 year old mother, who still drives, says you have to keep moving to have longevity. She still has things scheduled for each day and is sharp as a tac. Sometimes there isn't enough time in the day....... GOT TO KEEP ON KEEPIN ON!!
dykstra
10-27-2022, 11:21 AM
Looking great Lynn!
After getting those rooms ready, I got the North wall in the warehouse side insulated and drywalled. Then my son came over and helped me drywall the dividing wall. We used 12 foot sheets, so it went up pretty quick. We were done in less than three hours. Good thing, as we had to be at his military retirement ceremony that Sat. afternoon.
I swear it took 10 times as long to drywall those four tiny rooms, just because of all the cuts, and small pieces.
Sorry if these pics end up sideways. Every time I download pics from my phone, then flip them on the computer, they flip again when posting on line. If these come out OK, then I will know to just leave them flipped 90 degrees on the computer. I am a bit tech challenged these days.
3 out of 4. Don't know why the 4th one flipped.
Xplantdad
10-27-2022, 09:44 PM
3 out of 4. Don't know why the 4th one flipped.
227195
After getting the dividing wall rocked on one side (the warehouse side), I wanted to get the other side spray foamed along with the inside of the North wall in the shop. But first I felt like I needed to get all the brick work squared away. There were a lot of loose bricks and a lot of crumbling mortar. Part of it is just age, but part is that the building had been victim to a fire before WWII. There had been some previous attempts to repoint the bricks, but it was not done very well at all. There is really only one way to do it right; you have to dig out ALL of the soft mortar, and tightly pack in new mortar. After paying a relative AND a professional mason to do the job, I decided to do it myself.
All of the pics in this post are AFTER the other guys had supposedly fixed it. All the white chalky mortar is so soft, you can dig it out with a fingernail. You can see in a couple of pictures, there is some new gray mortar next to the white stuff. The professional mason? He didn't do it, but had a couple "helpers" do that work. All they did was put mortar on a finger and push it into existing voids. They did not remove any of the old mortar. That wheel barrel? It is one of THREE full loads of old mortar that I dug out by hand in prep for new mortar.
On most of the lower section (where previous “repairs” had be performed) they had just taken mortar in hand and slathered it over all the bricks with voids between them. It was ugly. So, on that part, I used a hand held concrete grinder and ground down to the brick. Then I started digging out the mortar. Most of the mortar from that “repair” was really hard, so where it was stuck in the brick, I just left it. I only dug out what would come out with a screwdriver or paint scraper. Went through about 5 paint scrapers; and that screwdriver won’t likely ever drive a screw again. I kept sharpening it at the grinder.
Oops. Pics didn't attach.
Too Many Projects
10-30-2022, 04:51 PM
Sorry to see you had to re/do all this yourself to get it right. Seems to be the way many contractors work anymore.
I'm confidant your work will still be there when the building turns 200 yrs old...:biggthumpup:
Too Many Projects
10-30-2022, 05:41 PM
Ya'know, bringing this up again is like finding an old action/thriller novel a person read a year ago and forgot much of the details so.... ya just gotta go back and re-read the whole dang thang again...:laugh:
Crush
10-30-2022, 06:33 PM
What’s the saying? If you want something done right, do it yourself” sadly this is more often the case these days!
I have always said there are three ways to get things done:
1. Hire it done.
2. Do it yourself.
3. Tell your kids not to do it.
Of course, that is a bit tongue in cheek. Apparently, 1 and 3 are hit and miss as far as quality.
I did get the two non brick walls in the shop spray foamed last week, and, for a change, i am very happy with the result. Guy did a great job, and you could barely tell he had been in there. Went with closed cell. Will post pics when we get to that. I am way behind bringing this up to date.
I had so much fun with the manhole cover, I decided to do a mini version.
When I got the building, there was no city water. But, it was hooked into the city sanitary sewer system. The sewer line coming from the building was actually exposed. Hard to believe. I did not want to dig for a new sewer line, so I made the best of it. When we poured the footer for the north wall, I made sure to build it up a bit over the slab height. I put a six inch pipe built into the footer horizontally, to allow the new sewer line exiting the building to pass through. I had to cut out the old part of the slab where the toilet was for two reasons. 1. I wanted to relocate it, and 2, I needed the sewer line to go just a bit lower to make sure I could cover it with the sidewalk. I am looking for pictures of that work, and can't find any. But I know there are somewhere. Will post when I find them.
Because the sewer line was so high, and because by code you have to have a cleanout setup right by the building, the clean out was slightly above grade. And it was right by the pedestrian door. So, while my electrician (Tommy) was doing some work that didn't require my help, I built this little concrete area to protect my clean out.
Small enough job that I just mixed cement in a wheel barrel. I used a sprinkler system cover and box from one of the big box stores. Should have taken a pic of it with the lid on. It looks very nice, and no one can tell it covers up the sanitary sewer clean out.
Technically, I think I need to grind off the words "Sprinkler System" and mark it permanently as the sewer clean out, but the inspector didn't say anything about it.
Almost done with brick work in the shop side. I have about 3 hours to go. There is no way to get the lower half looking good, but I have at least plugged all the holes and there is no loose mortar.
These pics show new mortar. I have not washed the brick yet, so it will look a bit better cleaned up. No point in washing until I get done with drywall tape and bed, as that sanding will create a whole new layer of dust.
My son came over yesterday for a few hours and we got started on drywall.
67since67
10-31-2022, 02:26 AM
That brick wall is nice!!
Don't think I talked much about the electrical. 400 amp service.
Good friend of mine donated a huge panel. It was left over from a commercial job he did. Plenty of room for expansion. About a third of the breakers are "spare" for now. That will change when my son and his wife set up the woodworking shop in the warehouse side.
There is a separate box just for my welder circuit. I bought a Miller Dimensions 452 that can be reconfigured for 208 3 phase from one of the local Vo-Techs. Barely used. It can run two mig guns at the same time, as well as tig welding and stick welding. I figure it will handle more than I can throw at it.
The same friend that gave me the panel also hooked me up with Tommy, a guy who used to work for him. Great guy. Worked for me on weekends for just labor. You can see from his conduit work that he is really conscientious.
olredalert
10-31-2022, 03:56 PM
----Wow, Lynn! That's some very clean work there.....Bill S
I think Tommy is half artist and half electrician.
Everyone who looks at the conduit comments.
Crush
10-31-2022, 10:06 PM
It’s rare these days to see pride in one’s work! This guy gets it!
67since67
10-31-2022, 10:35 PM
That is artwork!! It's great that there are still those who take pride in their work these days!
From day one I have admired the plumbing done on the boiler that heats my attached garage and shop.
Very nice. Good to see craftsmanship survives.
Too Many Projects
11-01-2022, 01:43 AM
Yep, you definitely need to keep Tommy around and have him over once a month for steak dinner. I hope he is helping you with the museum too...:smile:
Your tuck pointing looks great too. Doesn't look like the same wall as earlier pics.
Like I said, got the foam insulation done last week. Not much to gripe about here. Guy did a good job, and cleaned up well.
Two inch closed cell, which provides and extra vapor barrier.
Have about two hours worth of tuck point work left on brick.
Got most of the North wall drywalled on Sat.
Yep, you definitely need to keep Tommy around and have him over once a month for steak dinner. I hope he is helping you with the museum too...:smile:
Your tuck pointing looks great too. Doesn't look like the same wall as earlier pics.
I have about 2 hours to go on brick work. This job nearly killed me (not literally). I think it was late June when I decided to do it myself. I spent a couple weeks just digging the old soft mortar out. Then I vacuumed all of the loose debris out of the joints. Poor shop vac.
In July temps started getting so high, there was no way for me to work during the day or even in the evening when I got home. So, for four straight weeks, I got up at 4 am EVERY friggin morning (when it was "just" in the 80s) and worked four hours; then headed to the house to clean up and go to the office. On weekends, I would work until about 11 or noon.
By the end of August I ended up with a respiratory condition from hell. No one could give me a reason; didn't seem to be any infection. So I had to lay off a few weeks. I did start wearing a mask when mixing mortar, as it is possible I just breathed in more dust than my system could expel.
Doing OK now. Will also wear a dust mask when I sand the first coat of drywall joint compound. Had a heart / lung scan done yesterday and am anxiously awaiting the results.
Too Many Projects
11-01-2022, 09:52 PM
Damn, Lynn, you were breathing old, dirty dust from the digging and vacuuming time too. Using a shop vac doesn't trap the fine particles, unless it has a HEPA filter bag in it. I started using one in my shop vac and noticed a big difference in air quality right away.
You be careful...:p
I hear ya on the heat. We had, yet again, the hottest summer on record with the most days at 100 ever too. We are NOT accustomed to that up here and we get humidity too, which makes getting anything done outside almost unbearable.
Yep, you definitely need to keep Tommy around and have him over once a month for steak dinner. I hope he is helping you with the museum too...
As a matter of fact, I did hire Tommy to do some work at the Museum in Sept and Oct.
Getting close now. Devil is in the details, right?
Caulking all the saw cuts and other concrete joints. No glamour here, that's for sure. As with paint work on a car, the prep is as important as the application.
I spent Wed. and Thursday evening digging out all the joints and vacuuming. Last night (Friday) my angel of a wife helped me mask both sides of every joint in the joint. I don't care how good you are with a caulk gun, if you are not a pro, you have to mask these joints or they won't look good when you are done.
Here is what the floor in the shop end looked like when we were done. The pics probably won't all fit on one post, so I will follow this up.
Had to put in 4 hours at the Museum this evening. Worked on filling all the joints and saw cuts from 8 a.m. to 4. p.m.
Boy am I sore. Pics tomorrow. Got the floor done. Need to scrub the walls, put all the weatherstripping on the roll up doors, then scrub the floor next weekend (after all the caulk cures), and I am READY to start working on cars in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Always enjoy your updates Lynn. You're right, time to work on some cars in there after your many years of hard work getting the shop ready for use.
Crush
12-11-2022, 10:23 AM
How many sq ft is that space? Looks great!
The building square foot it right at 5100. I have it walled off somewhere close to the mid point. Have not measured to see how many feet in the shop. I believe about 2500 to 2700.
Here are some pics of the finished joints. Hard to see them in most pics; which I guess is the goal, right?
Donnie
12-11-2022, 05:54 PM
Lynn, did you use a self leveling caulk
No. My buddy the floor expert recommended NP-1.
I followed this guys procedure with a couple of changes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBc2SXiEtd8&t=1058s
1. I did not use any fine sand to cover it. I don't care to have it sanded. I will be using a floor scrubber to keep the floor clean, so skipped the sand.
2. I had a hard time getting the exact amount of caulk in the joints, so slightly overfilled; then dry tooled with a plastic putty knife (NOT a curved caulking tool), wiping off the excess as I went along.
After dry tooling I DID go back over it using the 409 as a lubricant, and it REALLY smooths it nicely.
Haven’t done squat lately, as I have been down with Covid... for the second freakin time. I received both vaccinations and both recommended boosters. This one has been more difficult to cope with than the first go round, even though I was unvaccinated at that time (as it wasn’t even available yet). On top of that, I am scheduled for angioplasty and stints Monday morning. I do have the plumber coming next Friday to run the natural gas line, so I can fire up the overhead heater. Don’t know how much I will be able to work this week after the procedure.
Turning my attention to a security system. I am resurrecting an old thread to see if ideas have changed in the last year and a half.
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=166788&highlight=shop+security
Too Many Projects
02-05-2023, 03:59 PM
Haven’t done squat lately, as I have been down with Covid... for the second freakin time. I received both vaccinations and both recommended boosters. This one has been more difficult to cope with than the first go round, even though I was unvaccinated at that time (as it wasn’t even available yet). On top of that, I am scheduled for angioplasty and stints Monday morning. I do have the plumber coming next Friday to run the natural gas line, so I can fire up the overhead heater. Don’t know how much I will be able to work this week after the procedure.
Turning my attention to a security system. I am resurrecting an old thread to see if ideas have changed in the last year and a half.
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=166788&highlight=shop+security
Sorry to hear you are down with covid. Will they still go ahead with the operation with you down ?
Apparently so. As long as I am out of the quarantine stage. I guess there is still a chance they test me before the procedure. As of last Tuesday, they said it was still a go.
SS427
02-05-2023, 04:35 PM
Get better Lynn and good luck with your procedure.
Big Block Bill
02-05-2023, 04:49 PM
God Speed to a successful procedure and recovery Lynn.
Too Many Projects
02-05-2023, 05:19 PM
God Speed to a successful procedure and recovery Lynn.
X2...Exactly what I was going to "say".
scuncio
02-05-2023, 07:36 PM
Best of luck, and let us know if there’s anything we can do for you.
dykstra
02-05-2023, 07:41 PM
Best of luck Lynn. We will be thinking about you.
SPEEDYB
02-06-2023, 12:22 AM
Good luck to you Lynn.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Headed to bed. Up early in the morning. These things are pretty routine these days, so we aren't expecting any issues.
AnthonyS
02-06-2023, 04:23 AM
I'd like to echo everyone's well wishes too Lynn!
Anthony
Xplantdad
02-06-2023, 03:33 PM
Hey Lynn,
Hope you feel better soon. :beers:
Everything went well. I am home and feeling fine.
Apparently, I was at death’s door, and didn’t even realize it.
I was supposed to be on the table for 30 minutes. I was there 2.5 hours. Plaque build up on the right coronary artery was too restricted and calcified to get a balloon and stent in place. Had to go to plan B, which is to run a rotary cutter through the artery to remove the calcification. Image showed a blood clot at the entry!!! Good thing I had Covid last week and did almost nothing. Normally, I would have been down at the shop working on an the heavy stuff to get things done before the surgery. I was just one strenuous activity away from a heart attack. Doc said both sides were “over 90% blocked. No wonder I have been a little winded lately.
I was awake the whole time. Funny hearing the Doc, say: “This isn’t going to work. We have to do something else.” Good thing I was sedated.
Unknown to me, the nurse had given Sherri an update just before the two hour mark. The nurse indicated that I was going to need a second procedure. Turns out the left side was no trouble at all, so they finished me up yesterday.
Fortunately, they went in through my wrist, so I was able to come home yesterday evening. Just have to leave the bandage one all day today and watch for bleeding. Modern medicine rocks.
Probably should post this next section in the joke thread. True story. Sherri and I like to go by Braum’s (the local ice cream place) and get soft serve low fat frozen yogurt cones from time to time. Sherri had a group text going to keep the kiddos and other relatives in the loop. I am not good at texting. My fat thumbs tend to hit 2 or 3 keys at a time, so you never know what might print. On the way to Braum’s, this text ensued verbatim.
Lynn:
On our way home. Stopping a Braums for a come.
Rock (my 41 year old son... name is Rock, we call him Rock or Rocky):
I knew you liked Braum’s, but wow. Auto correct is not your friend
Lynn:
CONE.
...
Sami (31 year old step daughter.. Very religious):
Omg rock.
Xplantdad
02-07-2023, 02:42 PM
Glad to hear that your tune up went well! :worship:
Too Many Projects
02-07-2023, 07:33 PM
Damn, good to read you came out the other side all patched up.
They did all that thru your wrist ??!! How did they filter all the cuttings and grindings to prevent it from getting in the blood stream ?? That sounds like science fiction...
Isn't it just like a car that isn't running quite right? Go in to rebuild the carb and before you know it, the heads are off and the valves are getting re-ground...:biggthumpup:
Yes, all done through my wrist. My biggest wound looks like a mosquito bite.
I don't know how they filtered. I read that if they use an orbital cutter, it cuts into such fine pieces that your body filters it out. I have a follow up appt tomorrow morning.
I hate being this old. But, if I have to be this old, I am glad it is now and not 40 years ago. I would likely already be dead twice.
scuncio
02-14-2023, 02:30 AM
Glad to hear it.
Too Many Projects
02-14-2023, 11:47 AM
Yes, all done through my wrist. My biggest wound looks like a mosquito bite.
I don't know how they filtered. I read that if they use an orbital cutter, it cuts into such fine pieces that your body filters it out. I have a follow up appt tomorrow morning.
I hate being this old. But, if I have to be this old, I am glad it is now and not 40 years ago. I would likely already be dead twice.
I'm with you on "how the hell did I get this old"..:hmmm:
My brain still thinks I'm 40.
But I'm happy to still be here..:biggthumpup:
Hoping the followup is all good.
Haven't really done a lot since the surgery. I probably COULD, but I think Sherri feels better if I take it easy. Have gained about 10 pounds from sitting, eating and NOT doing any manual labor. SUMBITCH!!! That ends today.
I do have heat in the workshops side. All done to code and inspected. Spent this evening getting the floor ready for a good cleaning and sealing. Have a few more cracks to fill in the morning, then clean the rest of the day (lots of oil stains and paint to be removed, so the sealer will soak in. This sealer is supposed to penetrate up to four inches into the concrete, making is non porous.
CanCOPO
03-04-2023, 03:36 AM
Lol. Growing old. A privilege not everyone gets to enjoy.
Crush
03-04-2023, 12:42 PM
What brand of sealer are you using?
RadonSeal. Not worried about Radon; but like how deep it penetrates.
Too Many Projects
03-04-2023, 03:04 PM
Interesting web site. I may be ordering some of their concrete cleaner when it warms up. I can buy the sealer at the local Home Depot, but they don't sell the cleaner in stores, which seems odd.
Don't waste your money on the concrete cleaner. Didn't work well for me.
This project is just kicking my arse.
I was reading the label on the RadonSeal Standard. Said if the concrete had been power trowled, I would need to etch it first. So, bought four gallons of the power etch. Started on that Saturday, but four gallons only did half my workshop area (about 1350 feet). The etch did work well, and the surface was noticeably rougher, ready to receive the sealer. The sealer is a siliconate penetrating sealer.
Followed the directions with Sherri's help. Only thing I didn't do as directed was to "rinse". I wasn't sure if rinse it off meant a hose, but I wet mopped it off. What was left is a chalk looking residue. It is very hard. I went over it with a power floor scrubber using a white 20 inch scotch pad laced with diamond bits. The one pic where it looks like I am finally cutting through the white topping is a result of 10 - 12 passes. At this rate it will take me a good 40 hours to get this stuff off. I guess eventually, I will end up with nice shiny floors. I wrote to customer support this evening to see if they have any solutions for taking this stuff off. It is very hard. I suspect I did not "rinse" it thoroughly enough, leaving this residue.
Even then, the floor scrubber doesn't go right up to the edge of the floor; so that will have to be done by hand somehow. I have a Bosch concrete grinder, and am looking for an adapter so that I can mount a scotch pad. Anyone aware of such an adapter for a Bosch CSG15, five inch concrete grinder?
Grinder currently has a diamond cup wheel on it. Way to aggressive for this task.
Pics of the floor.
Too Many Projects
03-28-2023, 01:54 PM
Sorry to see this isn't turning out as you planned/wanted.
I am sure I will get through it. They think that it interacted with the etcher because I did not hose it off. I just mopped it off twice and didn't put anything on it to neutralize it.
Has to be mechanically cleaned off. Haven't had time to look for a scotch pad adapter for my concrete grinder.
Too Many Projects
03-28-2023, 09:02 PM
I know you will, Lynn. It's just another laborious, time consuming learning experience.
aka major PITA.....:frown:
The company says this is cosmetic only, and that I can go right over it with either epoxy or a polyurea product. That may be easier than trying to remove it. And, IF I want such a floor, now is the time.
flyingn
03-28-2023, 11:33 PM
The company says this is cosmetic only, and that I can go right over it with either epoxy or a polyurea product. That may be easier than trying to remove it. And, IF I want such a floor, now is the time.
That is what I was going to recommend. An epoxy sealer and you are done
Still making progress on the shop, and even working on cars quite a bit. The floor situation is what it is. I have a couple of floor cleaners that I fitted with aggressive scotchbrite pads and every time I go over it, it gets a little smoother. Should eventually be a polished finish.
I wasn't planning on purchasing a wheel balancer or tire mounting machine, but this pair came up for sale on the Public Surplus Auction site (along with some other useful things) in one lot, and I couldn't pass up the deal. Made in U.S.A.
Have not used the tire mounting machine yet, as it needs to be anchored to the floor, and I am still undecided as far as where to put it. Pretty sure it is going to go right about where I have it in this picture. I have tested all the functions, and everything works. No bad solenoids, no air leaks. The top arm is disassembled in this pic, but it only takes a couple of minutes to re-install. Kind of top heavy with it on there, so I am waiting until I get it anchored to re-install.
As for the wheel balancer; boy am I glad I got this thing. With 16 cars, seem I am always purchasing tires on line, then dragging them to the local repair shop for mount and balance. I have NEVER felt like they were getting balanced quite right. It doesn't matter how good the equipment is if the operator is a dim wit. My son just had new Michelins put on his Suburban, but was complaining of vibration on the highway. I balanced all four, and could not believe how out of balance some were. Same thing on my Yukon XL. Same thing on my old Biimmer. The BMW especially, as it has alloy wheels that will not accept hammer on wheel weights. I learned back in the 80s how to "fool" the computer balancers (used an old Hunter back then) and do a true two plane dynamic balance on such wheels. This new balancer has settings so that you don't have to fool it. The difference on my Bimmer was amazing, especially at 100 mph. Smooth as glass.
It is really nice NOT to be at the mercy of incompetent repair folks.
napa68
12-12-2023, 01:41 PM
If you do not have them, get yourself a set of pin plates. It mounts the wheel lug centric as opposed to hub centric. Older wheels are not always hub centric, and some newer wheels (or aftermarket) do not have a proper surface to mount the wheel. The balance job is only as good as how it's mounted to the balancer.
The tire equipment is some of the best money I have spent (only second to hoists)
Too Many Projects
12-12-2023, 02:02 PM
Happy for you that you got the tire equipment. I bought my old pair 10 years ago and have used the crap out of them. I was buying older wheels with junk tires at swap meets and having the tires dismounted at a local Walmart for a few dollars. Osha passed a law back then that they can't touch any tire more than 10 years old, as they may explode or come apart as the tech is handling them and cause an injury. I took 2 tires to them that were flat and the beads were already broken to remove and they still wouldn't slip them off the wheels. They claimed if they got caught doing that the Osha fine was thousands of dollars. Another controlling oversight of big brother gone awry. That was the turning point of me getting my own equipment. As you say, having the wheels properly balanced has been a big benefit of that purchase.
Ever start a "clean up" project that took about 10 times longer than expected? Of course you have. I have had this old Craftsman box for over 50 years. Bought the top box in 71 from a co-worker. Then bought the bottom box the next year. Used it professionally until I got out of law school in 1990. Can't believe all the crap (non tools... you know, the little parts you think you might need next week, or in my case next millennium) that I accumulated in that set.
In all this time, the sliders have never been removed and cleaned. I emptied every drawer, took it all apart, removed all the sliders and cleaned them up in the solvent tank. Lubed them all up with a good graphite grease, and finally got it back together Sunday afternoon. It is beat to hell, but all the drawers slide easily now. As you can see, I also put new wheels on it. One of the swivel casters had not ball bearings left. Didn't swivel too well.
BTW, the stickers were already on it when I acquired it. PO raced an L78 Nova. I think it was a 68 that he bought new when he returned home from Viet Nam. Could have been a 69. I picked up the 1977 vintage SO box because I thought they would look nice together in my 1919 shop.
And no, I still don't have all my tools back in the boxes. Should get there this weekend.
BTW, Mitch: "Osha passed a law back then that they can't touch any tire more than 10 years old, as they may explode or come apart as the tech is handling them and cause an injury."
That guy was full of crap. Probably just spewing the company policy. There is no such law. There is an industry standard against putting 10 plus year tires back in service. Shop would be exposing itself to some liability if you brought in old tires and they mount them. Or you brought in an old tire and they plugged it. There is no reason they can't dismount and discard an old tire. If that were REALLY the law, then how would one get new tires put on an old vehicle?
Too Many Projects
12-13-2023, 02:57 AM
BTW, Mitch: "Osha passed a law back then that they can't touch any tire more than 10 years old, as they may explode or come apart as the tech is handling them and cause an injury."
That guy was full of crap. Probably just spewing the company policy. There is no such law. There is an industry standard against putting 10 plus year tires back in service. Shop would be exposing itself to some liability if you brought in old tires and they mount them. Or you brought in an old tire and they plugged it. There is no reason they can't dismount and discard an old tire. If that were REALLY the law, then how would one get new tires put on an old vehicle?
Pretty much my thought at the time too, but I was turned down by a local tire store too with about the same story ?? But, that's OK, as I pursued getting my own and never looked back.
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