Cragar ss 15 X 4 5-4.75 direct bolt pattern on Ebay

[Bernhard]

Ebay

Cragar ss

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cragar-S-S-Wheels-15x4-Gasser/323257492420?hash=item4b43a5e3c4:g:fHsAAOSwjB9a-sjD


I was not able to post in the Ebay section
Sorry

[chevyman0429]

Nice!

[Rumbleguts396]

Sold!!! Anyone from this forum?

[big gear head]

$600 for those? I wonder what mine would bring? The prices that some of this stuff brings today amazes me.

[Mr70]

Fair price for the vintage rounded spoke,direct drill lug,(Not Uni-Lug) and GM 4-3/4 bolt pattern.

[bbbentley]

Fair price for the vintage rounded spoke,direct drill lug,(Not Uni-Lug) and GM 4-3/4 bolt pattern.

How much does unilug affect price?

[Mr70]

It depends on the buyer,the wheel size and the condition of the chrome plating too.
They make Uni-lug,and also expensive special order direct drill Cragars S/S today,but both with flat spoke,(not the vintage rounded spoke),which is the biggest price factor for a purist.And those buyers normally want direct drill wheels.
Finding a good clean direct drill,rounded spoke with GM bolt pattern,in the size you specifically want,is not easy today.
I think that selling price is fair.

[GrumpyJeff]

I know they are very desirable, but $600 for those ??? if any thing,I guess I don't feel as foolish for paying $1600 for a "mint" pair of direct fit GM pattern.

[Rumbleguts396]

They were listed $600 OBO. Wonder how close to asking price they sold for.

[John Brown]

They were listed $600 OBO. Wonder how close to asking price they sold for.

If they sold for less than asking, the $600 would have had a slash through it, so I'm saying they sold for full boat. Makes me wish I had bought the set of 15 x 4's and 15 x 8's I saw at a swap meet few weeks ago for $400 asking. I was holding out for some that looked better, but the ebay pair were no nicer than than the ones I passed on. Live and learn.

[NorCam]

I paid big dough for a nice set of 15"x4" direct bolt rims from another member here last fall and matched those with a set of NOS 8" rears. Now I found another set of wheels and tires I am going to use on my car so may sell these ones complete with rubber on them if I can find somebody that wants a full mounted set with Pro Tracs. Big bucks invested in these but definitely one of the nicer sets around.

https://preview.ibb.co/cfaALd/IMG_9444.jpg (https://ibb.co/gHNqLd)

https://preview.ibb.co/hYun0d/IMG_9445.jpg (https://ibb.co/dRzy6J)

https://preview.ibb.co/hztamJ/IMG_9449.jpg (https://ibb.co/cqE4fd)

https://preview.ibb.co/j36H0d/IMG_9450.jpg (https://ibb.co/bTrT6J)

https://preview.ibb.co/eAfGty/IMG_9451.jpg (https://ibb.co/gqzn0d)

[cook_dw]

I paid big dough for a nice set of 15"x4" direct bolt rims from another member here last fall and matched those with a set of NOS 8" rears. Now I found another set of wheels and tires I am going to use on my car so may sell these ones complete with rubber on them if I can find somebody that wants a full mounted set with Pro Tracs. Big bucks invested in these but definitely one of the nicer sets around.

https://preview.ibb.co/cfaALd/IMG_9444.jpg (https://ibb.co/gHNqLd)

https://preview.ibb.co/hYun0d/IMG_9445.jpg (https://ibb.co/dRzy6J)

https://preview.ibb.co/hztamJ/IMG_9449.jpg (https://ibb.co/cqE4fd)

https://preview.ibb.co/j36H0d/IMG_9450.jpg (https://ibb.co/bTrT6J)

https://preview.ibb.co/eAfGty/IMG_9451.jpg (https://ibb.co/gqzn0d)



Deal!!! Ill trade you a couple "Big Bucks" for those wheels & tires..

https://www.dollartree.com/assets/product_images_2016/styles/xlarge/247441.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41FAT%2BMr7oL.jpg




I'll pm you my shipping address..

[NorCam]

Can't do it...allergic to Chocolate. :biggthumpup:

[Bernhard]

Finding a nice set of Cragar ss direct bolt round spoke wheels has been one of the hardest parts to locate for my build.
If it was not such a critical part of my build I would have opted for another wheel style.
I have even contacted Cragar directly to ask if they would consider making the original round spoke rim.
The rep was very supportive of the idea and had asked for the changes in the past when tooling required repair.
For some reason they would not make the change.
How many would pay a premium for new original style Cragar ss wheels?

[NorCam]

Why buy new ones when good originals are available. If you need a set Bernhard, mine will fit your Olds and they're only a quick ship away from Alberta. :)

[mike1971]

I can vouch for the Fronts that Graeme has, probably the nicest set I’ve seen other than the NOS set I have. No disappointments on those he has for sale. ����

[big gear head]

Can someone please post some pictures of the originals, current and any other variations of these wheels so that I can see what the difference is?

[bbbentley]

Can someone please post some pictures of the originals, current and any other variations of these wheels so that I can see what the difference is?

There is some info regarding old vs newer style of round spoke SS Cragar 4.0 inch by PxTx (Paul ) and Whitetop. I’ll see if I can find it.

[Bernhard]

I have two sets of 15 x 4 direct bolt Cragar SS wheels.
One set is driver quality the other set needs to be re Chromed
I’m leaning toward 69 date coded wheels that I will have re-chromed.

[Bernhard]

https://claremont-ca.showmethead.com/ad/gallery/18923233/

Here is a early set of Cragar SS 15 X 4 rims

This is how I would describe the rim in the link
Direct bolt
Round spoke
Round spoke with narrow outer rim
No bead lock



Differences to look for:
Center section differences
Round spoke with a wide outer rim
Round spoke with a narrow outer rim

Direct bolt
uni-lug

Bead locks
No bead locks

Todays wheels have :

Uni-lug
or
Direct bolt acorn nut

Flat spoke center
Flat spoke center narrow outer rim

I think there might be differences in the rim itself

I would recommend doing a thread search on the forum, there has been some very good and detailed threads on this topic.

[BillD]

I have two sets of 15 x 4 direct bolt Cragar SS wheels.
One set is driver quality the other set needs to be re Chromed
I’m leaning toward 69 date coded wheels that I will have re-chromed.

Be careful with the re-chroming. If the wheels getting the re-chrome have pits in them chances are you are not going to be happy with the outcome. You really have to have a good set to start with. Peeling chrome is OK.

[1967 4K]

This discussion about the 15x4’s and difference in the first style and second style of the original wheels was on the site here about a years or so ago with good pics showing the two wheels. I have the second style 15x4’s on my car now. When I bought them they were okay driver quality. I searched for ever before finding a chrome shop that would replate them.
I’d post pics here but it would be easier for me to find the cure for the common cold than figure out how to post a pic! I’ve got a lot of money in mine so if you can find a nice set for 6 or 7 hundred you better get em.
1967 4K

[Bernhard]

Be careful with the re-chroming. If the wheels getting the re-chrome have pits in them chances are you are not going to be happy with the outcome. You really have to have a good set to start with. Peeling chrome is OK.

Thanks for the reply, I agree the core wheel has to be a pit free clean original.

[NorCam]

Be careful with the re-chroming. If the wheels getting the re-chrome have pits in them chances are you are not going to be happy with the outcome. You really have to have a good set to start with. Peeling chrome is OK.

Bill knows all about this as he found a company in California that re-plated a set of wheels for him. I don't believe this service comes with a guarantee that the castings won't break when they are separated for plating if I recall correctly?

https://www.yenko.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100963&stc=1&d=1506940220 https://www.yenko.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100964&stc=1&d=1506940220

[cook_dw]

https://www.cosmichrome.com/spray-chrome/

[Bernhard]

I’m going with a shop that will plate the wheel together
I like this process better it might not produce as durable a finish in the space between the center section and rim
But I feel more comfortable with this method as the car will be raced.
I think one could lower the risk of the chrome failing in this area by sealing this space with a clear type of sealer or clear coat paint

[whitetop]

I’m going with a shop that will plate the wheel together


Can't be done ... center section is aluminum and outer rim is steel of course.

[big gear head]

How was the aluminum center attached to the steel wheel?

[NorCam]

Aluminum cores are pressed into outer steel hoop then welded in with (5 ea) 2" beads between 2 dissimilar metals as seen here on the back side of this NOS rim. Welds need to be broken to separate the hoop and then both pieces would need chemical stripping before being re-plated in this process. Expensive and I was told there are only a couple who will do this work now days. I was also told that if the aluminum core break or cracks when being removed from the outer hoop, the wheel is garbage.

Click the image for high res shot.

https://preview.ibb.co/fnVBFo/Backside.jpg (https://ibb.co/gCOno8)

[whitetop]

Aluminum cores are pressed into outer steel hoop then welded in with (5 ea) 2" beads between 2 dissimilar metals as seen here on the back side of this NOS rim.


It is not 2 dissimilar metals. You cannot weld aluminum to steel. There is a steel tab molded inside the end of each aluminum 5 spoke or I should say the aluminum is poured-molded around the steel tab leaving a portion of the steel tab sticking out at each end of the spoke-that portionof the steel tab is welded to the rim.

[bbbentley]

Aluminum cores are pressed into outer steel hoop then welded in with (5 ea) 2" beads between 2 dissimilar metals as seen here on the back side of this NOS rim. Welds need to be broken to separate the hoop and then both pieces would need chemical stripping before being re-plated in this process. Expensive and I was told there are only a couple who will do this work now days. I was also told that if the aluminum core break or cracks when being removed from the outer hoop, the wheel is garbage.

Click the image for high res shot.

https://preview.ibb.co/fnVBFo/Backside.jpg (https://ibb.co/gCOno8)

Are you trying to say that this is how the wheels were made? I mean, plating 2 parts separate and, then, putting them together? I find that hard to believe? I am pretty sure they were chromed in one step as a complete wheel?

[PxTx]

Nope, two separate parts. Still made that way today. Call them and ask.

[whitetop]

Are you trying to say that this is how the wheels were made? I mean, plating 2 parts separate and, then, putting them together? I find that hard to believe? I am pretty sure they were chromed in one step as a complete wheel?


See my comment above regarding steel tabs. Yep plated then weled together.

[DW31S]

I'll vouch for Graeme's stuff....NOS 8" are tough to find....as are MINT 4". No driver quality here.... these are for "when only the best will do". I've heard horror stories about rechroming old Cragars, and I've heard stories that ended well. To do it right, they need to be separated. If not, all bets are off.....the seam where the spider and hoop meet will definitely chip/peel if you (can find a shop that will) rechrome the wheel as one unit.

[big gear head]

Thanks guys for the explanation of how they were put together. It doesn't seem like they would be very strong like that, but they obviously are. I guess I'll just leave mine like they are and not try to get them re chromed.

I saw these on craigslist a few days ago. Cragars with 3 bar spinners. I don't know if they are worth anything, and it doesn't say what size they are. Looks like they might be the early style wheels with direct bolt pattern. https://evansville.craigslist.org/wto/d/cragar-wheels/6586624817.html

[bbbentley]

:scholar::scholar::scholar::scholar::scholar::scho lar:Thanks for the education all 3 or 4 of yous! That is why I love this “online car club”. I learn new things everyday, here.

[NorCam]

Never knew about the steel tab cast into the centers but that makes better sense to me now. Thanks for the lesson Whitetop. I'm no welder but always thought steel and aluminum could be Tig welded together? :dunno:

I guess there is a new rod called Aluma Steel that allows that to be done now but that's still above my pay grade. I can barely Mig 2 pieces of steel together myself. :)

[big gear head]

I've been a TIG welder for more than 30 years. I was DOD aircraft certified for about 10 years and I've welded most materials that can be welded. I was wondering how the Cragar wheels were welded together, and now I know. Steel and aluminum still can not be welded together. There is a guy who has been working on a process to do this, I think in Australia, but as far as I know it's still not perfected, and it's very expensive. He's trying to develop it for the auto manufacturers where it would be very useful. As far as I can tell the Alumi Steel rod is just a brazing rod that allows steel to be TIG brazed to aluminum. Welding is where the parent metal is melted along with the filler and both flow together. From what I can see with the Alumi Steel rod only the rod is being melted and it flows onto the surface of the parent metal, which is brazing.

[whitetop]

The other major probem with rechroming old Cragars is finding the right color chrome. Due to EPA the old Cragar white hexavelant chrome is getting hard to find..

Most of the chrome today has a blue or brown cast and the wheels come out looking horrible.

[Bernhard]

Can't be done ... center section is aluminum and outer rim is steel of course.

A member on this board had a set done and they turned out very nice.
There is no guarantee because the chrome cannot fully plate in the seam.
I do not have a issue with this as I rather not cut the rims apart, and I plan on treating the area so that it will not rust or start pealing.

The shop has done many sets so yes it can be done its just not ideal.









.

[PxTx]

I'm interested to know what company will chrome the wheels without cutting them apart and the cost.

I recently sent some Keystone wheels to be cut up, had the offset changed, rechromes and put back together. Will post up pics and total cost when I have them back.

[Bernhard]

The other major probem with rechroming old Cragars is finding the right color chrome. Due to EPA the old Cragar white hexavelant chrome is getting hard to find..

Most of the chrome today has a blue or brown cast and the wheels come out looking horrible.

Its not ideal from a purest point of view, but I don't think it looks horrible its just different.
Back in the 80's the blue or brown tint chrome was a sign of quality "show chrome".

[Bernhard]

I'm interested to know what company will chrome the wheels without cutting them apart and the cost.

I recently sent some Keystone wheels to be cut up, had the offset changed, rechromes and put back together. Will post up pics and total cost when I have them back.

This is the shop one of the members used to have a set done.
I personally think the wheels turned out very nice and would be happy with this level of restoration.
http://www.atlaschrome.com/

You will have to call for pricing 15 X 4 with out pits and no cap $325 US each "NO Guarantee"

[1967 4K]

I used Atlas in Houston TX. Three years ago the price was 250.00each. They did a good job and the turn around was a reasonable time. There’s no guarantee and one of them had a small flake up area where the spoke met the rim start about a year later. They replated that wheel at a reduced price of 150.00.
Like I said earlier it’s not cheap if you want a set of old school Cragars.
Richard

[1967 4K]

Bernhard what kind of “stuff” do you plan on putting in the gap between the spoke and rim. I haven’t done that yet and was thinking clear Lacquer. What you think?

[Bernhard]

Hi Richard
The price has gone up since you had your rims re-chromed.
I was going to look into a clear sealer that they use on gas fittings in labs.
I also thought about using a clear coat that is water resistant.
I don't know how water resistant clear lacquer is, when I was in trade school I was told that lacqure absorbed water.

[1967 4K]

Good non R caps are getting hard to come by also. I got a set of four NOS non R’s from a local guy recently.

[Bernhard]

Good non R caps are getting hard to come by also. I got a set of four NOS non R’s from a local guy recently.

Nice
I picked up some very nice originals off of ebay.

[Bernhard]

The product I was thinking about using is similar to this sealer.
http://www.sashco.com/products/lexel/

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/626235O/3mtm-crystal-clear-sealant-230.pdf

https://conspecmaterials.com/shop/sealants/polyurethane-sealants/3m-230-crystal-clear-sealant/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yCVpNT2eMI

I would test any product before using it to seal my rims.

[Starship]

For your viewing pleasure. I separated this set in preparation for re-chroming. It looked as if they were re-chromed in one piece at one time with bad results.

[Bernhard]

Thanks for posting.

How was the center section removed?
How do you ensure the wheel is true before re-welding?
Metal is lost from the mounting tab's when it is cut free from the rim.
I also assume more mounting tab metal is lost during weld area prep for re-welding, (the removal of chrome plating from the tabs and rim to allow re-welding).
How do you compensate for loss in mounting tab material?

The above questions are not intended to be negative. They are to clarify the process and what is required to preform this level of wheel restoration.

Thanks
Bernhard

[scuncio]

If you're very judicious when you remove the weld I don't see an issue (FYI I am a degreed materials engineer). Obviously the quality of the weld is important, and I would be building a fixture to ensure the lug plane and rim edge were as parallel as possible.

[Bernhard]

If you're very judicious when you remove the weld I don't see an issue (FYI I am a degreed materials engineer). Obviously the quality of the weld is important, and I would be building a fixture to ensure the lug plane and rim edge were as parallel as possible.

I have seen some cut the wheels apart on the lathe. What would you consider a good method to use to separate the rim from the center section?
What about using a cutoff wheel with a light touch?

[whitetop]

I had a professional wheel shop do mine. They cut the wheel apart by using a lathe then built up metal back via tig welding onto the remaining steel tab what was lost in the lathe process and then lathed that down to a factory tab would have looked before welding back together.

They used a jig the center the wheel to make usre it was round and also no side play etc.

Thanks for posting.

How was the center section removed?
How do you ensure the wheel is true before re-welding?
Metal is lost from the mounting tab's when it is cut free from the rim.
I also assume more mounting tab metal is lost during weld area prep for re-welding, (the removal of chrome plating from the tabs and rim to allow re-welding).
How do you compensate for loss in mounting tab material?

The above questions are not intended to be negative. They are to clarify the process and what is required to preform this level of wheel restoration.

Thanks
Bernhard

[Bernhard]

I had a professional wheel shop do mine. They cut the wheel apart by using a lathe then built up metal back via tig welding onto the remaining steel tab what was lost in the lathe process and then lathed that down to a factory tab would have looked before welding back together.

They used a jig the center the wheel to make usre it was round and also no side play etc.

Is the shop still doing Cragar rims?
Cost?