Picked up a double shot of 69 Camaro the other day!

[dabigpud]

Good morning all,

New member to the site. I was advised by a fellow member from another thread to share some photos of my recent acquisition because my modern 'barn find" would be fun to share.

However, the more interesting story may be related to a completely separate issue (the one that brought me to this site to begin with). I invite anyone who is curious to check out the on-going details of that matter here:

http://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=124851

Any who, my story started a couple weeks ago here in Orange County, CA when my neighbor advised me that their long term friend whose husband passed away a couple years ago was ready to sell his two 1969 Camaros. I was warned in advance that the cars were taken apart, but hell I was interested nonetheless.

Not knowing what to expect, I was surprised to see that she had a genuine '69 Le Mans Blue Z/28 and a '69 Pace Car in dover white with the orange interior. Suffice to say, we struck a deal.

Although there is much that needs to be done to bring both cars back to speed, they both appear to have solid bodies. It also helps to know there are a ton of parts for both cars just "thrown" into a storage unit together. Oh joy!

I was pleased to know the blue Z/28 was an LA Van Nuys car. I did a little digging and determined the car is not in fact a true RS car (bummed, but expected that) after I removed the rear back up lights and saw the non-factory stamp cut out where the modification had been made.

Either way, I was still happy about the purchase. Hope you guys get a laugh after seeing the storage photos.

Ryan

[cook_dw]

Very cool.. Look like a couple great projects.. Any original drivetrain or docs with either car? Enjoy the journey and above all have fun with them.. That's what they were meant for.

[Caseys69]

Very nice find

[dabigpud]

Darrell,

I still need to verify a few more components, but the Z/28 (as I'm being told) has a matching numbers engine that is currently sitting at the mechanic's. Even though this hasn't been verified, I am told it was verified at some earlier date. I took the risk anyways because the price was so good.

In fact, I fully expect to restore the Z/28 (unsure on the status of what I'll do with the pace car for now) as I am listing my other fully restored '69 Z/28. The sale is being prompted by the fact that I just acquired my other dream car... fully restored, matching numbers, all original body panel, 4-speed '67 Shelby GT500.

See below for pictures of my other Camaro and the Shelby (still on its way to me).

[dabigpud]

Here's the Shelby...

[Billohio]

If they are both van nuys cars with original gas tanks they could have build sheets on the tanks. Neat finds

[bbbentley]

Not saying it is not a pace car. But drum brakes is not correct.

[dabigpud]

Bill,

Only the Z is an LA car. I have to verify if the tank sticker is still there. We haven’t had a chance to pull it out and inspect further.

Bbbentley,

Per the agreement we struck with the woman, we agreed to take everything car related in her garage and storage unit. We already verified that some parts, including a transmission we found were from a 66 Chevelle they used to own. So I don’t believe that rear end goes with the pace car even though it’s sitting right in front of it. Was just thinking the same thing the other day.

[Jonesy]

Yep that looks like a rear in front of the pacer, which would have drum brakes

[bbbentley]

Not saying it is not a pace car. But drum brakes is not correct.
see it now...getting old sucks:scholar::youguysrock:

[L78steve]

Not a real RS? Maybe the rear valance was replaced at some point in time.

[mr 707]

very nice find

[Lynn]

Nice find. That crushed hood is painful to look at.

Sent you a pm re: the other thread. Gave you my phone number. We need to talk.

[AdmiralityBlue]

Not a real RS? Maybe the rear valance was replaced at some point in time.

Yes-Agree. RS wheel/pass.mirror/bumper guards... was pretty easy to transform any 69 into an RS back in the day but doubtful changing the wheel?

[dabigpud]

Well to be honest, I haven't done enough digging. I guess there's always a chance it could still be a real R/S. But according to my lengthy review of Camaro.org, it doesn't seem to have the other tell-tale signs. Guess it helps I got a pace car included in the purchase as those all came as an RS/SS!

[dabigpud]

Made this first dent in the storage unit included in the sale. Just trying to sort through the mess!

[markjohnson]

Kinda off-topic but what are those those tuff looking wheels on the big red Ford?!

[dabigpud]

Mark,

Those are from a brand called Black Rhino and they are known as their “Armory” wheels. And those are 37” tires :)

[big gear head]

You probably haven't had a chance to check all of this stuff yet, but that 4 bolt big block is very interesting.

[The Boss]

Love the cars AND your TRUCK! Been looking for the right 97 myself.

[dabigpud]

Freddie,

Both appear to be 396 blocks. We have spent so much time clearing the storage unit that I haven’t had a chance to research the block numbers. Both look like they have the same stamp code of 3955272; but one says 3955272 T.

Haven’t verified any matching numbers etc. What I do know is that the matching numbers DZ302 motor for the Z28 is offsite at a mechanic’s. I’m hoping one of these two are the matching block for the pace car. Based on what I’ve read, the overwhelming majority of pace cars came with the small block 350, however, a 396 was also an option. I’m hoping that’s what we have here.

Ryan

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Great cars to find together in a deal like that .
Enough to make anyone really happy .

When its all sorted out it should get even more interesting than the thread on the missing Red 69.

Real interesting chain of events you have encountered.
Thanks for sharing with us .

Congrats and good wishes

[big gear head]

The 4 bolt block would be a L78 block. If you have a L78 pace car then that's real special.

[dabigpud]

Freddie,

I’m hoping so...I know it was relatively rare to have a big block in a pace car from the factory. Still looking into it but its looking good so far...the block is showing a casting date for April 69. Pace cars came out in February onward if I remember correctly.

Baron,

Thank you! I’ll try to keep you all updated on the progress.

[firstgenaddict]

BB pacers are rare however L78 Pacers are SUPER RARE...
L78 VERTS are EASY SIX FIGURE CARS.

[dabigpud]

BB pacers are rare however L78 Pacers are SUPER RARE...
L78 VERTS are EASY SIX FIGURE CARS.

Well...I'm not only shocked but ecstatic to report that the gods were in my favor this time.

Both the Z/28 and the Pace Car have matching numbers engines...

But the huuuuuuge news is that the Pace Car IS in fact an L78 396/375HP 4-speed car. I am floored!

[ZLP955]

Awesome news! Need more pics of these cars.

[R68GTO]

Congratulations on the find!

[The Boss]

Prior owner was an astute collector. Congratulations!

[ruralrte66]

OMG That is so cool. Thank you for sharing.

[fortim]

Congratulations, you sure knocked that ball out of the park! Looking forward to watching these cars come back to life.

[dabigpud]

Sharing some more photos from the progress this last week...Picking up more parts from the storage unit and the Z.

[dabigpud]

Making the final run.

[big gear head]

A L78 4 speed car, that's great!
I noticed this yesterday. You might be needing it for the pace car. http://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=149408

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Both the Z/28 and the Pace Car have matching numbers engines...

But the huuuuuuge news is that the Pace Car IS in fact an L78 396/375HP 4-speed car. I am floored!

Incredible amount of good fortune and planetary/galaxy alignment .
Whole lotta awesome in that pair .

:flag: a salutation of congratulations !

[enio45]

WOW - super great find - congrats - now you have your hands full with stuff to do!!

[scuncio]

Congrats, one of the Holy Grail Camaros for sure.

[JamesinHBCA]

A couple of great cars for sure. I am sure you will get all the numbers verified before spending "Holy Grail" type money on a resto.

As a LEO, I think you can understand exploring all options in an investigation, so don't take it personal if I ask a way out there "what if" question. What if the guy who owned these cars and the faked L89 in the other thread is the one who started the forgery on the L89 by gathering the right parts and getting the correct stamping way back when, before it was stolen? Then maybe he was going to do the same with these project cars.

Or perhaps it really is just an "Incredible amount of good fortune and planetary/galaxy alignment" in your favor.

[dabigpud]

A couple of great cars for sure. I am sure you will get all the numbers verified before spending "Holy Grail" type money on a resto.

As a LEO, I think you can understand exploring all options in an investigation, so don't take it personal if I ask a way out there "what if" question. What if the guy who owned these cars and the faked L89 in the other thread is the one who started the forgery on the L89 by gathering the right parts and getting the correct stamping way back when, before it was stolen? Then maybe he was going to do the same with these project cars.

Or perhaps it really is just an "Incredible amount of good fortune and planetary/galaxy alignment" in your favor.

James,

Oh I can assure you. We have absolutely discussed this as a likely scenario. But given the amount of documentation on these two cars, including a series of registration paperwork from the previous owners, it seems unlikely.

We too even thought it was too good to be true when we first discovered them. In the paperwork, I did also find paperwork regarding a loan he had taken out from a local bank for the pace car when he picked it up. The price he paid in the early 90's for that car definitely seem appropriate for that time.

Also, we have found some very compelling/damning information regarding the third stolen Camaro; with much of the thanks to some of the fellow members of this forum!

Our biggest obstacle unfortunately falls on the widow whom we purchased these other two from as she may no longer have enough documentation on their old car. But I have some resources out there that may help our cause.

Regarding the state of the current cars, we had to ask ourselves why he would have ever left them in such a state of repair. But, as we have been told, he was just fanatical about restoring his cars as much as he could by hand.

Even though we have quite extensive ownership history on the two we purchased, we definitely want to check all the boxes before moving further!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I did also find paperwork regarding a loan he had taken out from a local bank for the pace car when he picked it up. The price he paid in the early 90's for that car definitely seem appropriate for that time.

Others likely know more than i do regarding early 90's pricing trends on 69 Camaro's.
But i had both hands on the wheel and fingers firmly on the pulse searching out for an upscale-minty 69 RS/SS in 1987-88 span.

69 RS/SS X22 D80 Blk/Blk Deluxe - 375hp Iron Head - 4spd - Tach Gauges Console plus etc..., #'s ,
Mint restored bottom to top .
$8500

69 RS/Z28 X33 D80 was either Orange or White/Orange Dogbite - Endura - JL8 RWD - Cowl Induction - Tach Gauges Console plus etc.., #'s ,
Mint restored bottom to top .
$10,500

I was a serious candidate on the Black SS.
Shuffled my feet for half a day too long - lost out.

Thought the Z was too far overpriced.
Didn't even test drive it.
Sorry i cant remember if it was White w/ Orange stripes - or Orange w/ White stripes.

Same owner , both cars in same place at same time.
"Big John" Akes of High Point NC if anyone remembers him.

Prices kept climbing up through 92-93 , then things started leveling out / softening for a pretty good while.

I'm guessing 1992 price on that Pace-Vert in good used-unrestored condition was around 25-30k zone - full retail.

PS - ironically , the Faktry Black SS i missed , the guy who bought it immediately color changed it to GarnetRed as tribute to his former car in his high school days.
Just the opposite of what happened to the stolen Garnet car going to Black.

[ZLP955]

^ those were the days, alright.... (sighs)

[dabigpud]

Others likely know more than i do regarding early 90's pricing trends on 69 Camaro's.
But i had both hands on the wheel and fingers firmly on the pulse searching out for an upscale-minty 69 RS/SS in 1987-88 span.

69 RS/SS X22 D80 Blk/Blk Deluxe - 375hp Iron Head - 4spd - Tach Gauges Console plus etc..., #'s ,
Mint restored bottom to top .
$8500

69 RS/Z28 X33 D80 was either Orange or White/Orange Dogbite - Endura - JL8 RWD - Cowl Induction - Tach Gauges Console plus etc.., #'s ,
Mint restored bottom to top .
$10,500

I was a serious candidate on the Black SS.
Shuffled my feet for half a day too long - lost out.

Thought the Z was too far overpriced.
Didn't even test drive it.
Sorry i cant remember if it was White w/ Orange stripes - or Orange w/ White stripes.

Same owner , both cars in same place at same time.
"Big John" Akes of High Point NC if anyone remembers him.

Prices kept climbing up through 92-93 , then things started leveling out / softening for a pretty good while.

I'm guessing 1992 price on that Pace-Vert in good used-unrestored condition was around 25-30k zone - full retail.

PS - ironically , the Faktry Black SS i missed , the guy who bought it immediately color changed it to GarnetRed as tribute to his former car in his high school days.
Just the opposite of what happened to the stolen Garnet car going to Black.

Baron,

Good story. That sounds about right. Although I don't know what condition the pace car was in when he first got it, the price does seem appropriate for the time period at $16,500.

Pretty crazy when we think about where they once were and where they have come price-wise!

Ryan

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Pretty crazy when we think about where they once were and where they have come price-wise!


For Real !
That $8500 RS/SS in 1988 - would have brought $25,000+ just by 1992.
Prices were climbing so fast i was knocked right out of the Market.

[Lee Stewart]

And what was the cost to restore a car back during that time period? It sure wasn't $100,000+ like it is today.

[JKZ27]

And what was the cost to restore a car back during that time period? It sure wasn't $100,000+ like it is today.



X2.
However, There's a big difference between 1988 and 2018 restorations, right?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

You guys are right in most all respects, of course.

This is Pud's space and i apologize.
But one more bit on those last 2 cars I looked at -

After goose chasing for over a year - i had called it quits on the 69 Camaro quest , about 2 months earlier.

Taking an alternate route from Gboro to HighPoint to visit friends - spotted this pair in the driveway of a real nice house.
with For Sale signs.

They were absolutely the 2 nicest 69 Camaro's i had ever seen anywhere.
Was in total shock basically , but trying to look calm.
Frame-Off quality top to bottom , but not quite equal to Todays Concourse , to be on the safe side.

Would have needed another paycheck yet to get to 8500 and then be flat broke.
Lunchtime next day - made the call to pull the trigger on the Black Car.
Missed the Bus
Closed the Book :nonewfolder:

[Stihl]

Awesome find and awesome cars! The orange Camaro is beautiful as well.

[The Boss]

And what was the cost to restore a car back during that time period? It sure wasn't $100,000+ like it is today.

Not even close! The 70 Judge convertible I bought & sold in 1997 got restored in 99 and eventually showed up on e-bay about 7 or 8 years ago. I remember the conversation on the boards was that he must have been "buried" in the car because the restoration must have cost so much - he called me and we laughed. His restoration cost $38,000!

[dabigpud]

Started work right away on the L78 Pace Car...

Had the sub-frame powder coated and the rear end painted. Installed the rear and working on the sub-frame install next.

It's coming along!

[R68GTO]

You are not messing' around! Looks great, will be awesome when finished!

[Alss]

very cool find..there're still out there!!,not to be picky...but shouldn't it have a square torque arm on the rear?..67 only?..bracket mount on floor?

[Billohio]

thats a 67 only item

[Alss]

it's a 67 L-78 pace car.....or not having it due to being a convert?

[MosportGreen66]

it's a 67 L-78 pace car.....or not having it due to being a convert?

The pics above are a '69 Camaro Convert?

[Alss]

thought it was a 67 pacer..duh!

[Stefano]

Too many GM "A" bodies in the garage?