69 copo

[wrench]

Have not looked at it yet but found a first week of Nov. 69 Camaro that has X-44 on what looks to be an unaltered cowl tag. Guy sent me pics and it has power disc brakes, cowl hood and a BB heater box. Been sitting for 15 years. Any chance this could be a COPO? I am going to look but need information on what to look for. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

[William]

Yes, good chance. Things to check out:

C BE axle code, stamped on front of rh axle tube
built with ZL2, not just the hood
curved-neck 4 core radiator
BB motor mount brackets

[R68GTO]

Sent you a PM

[bbbentley]

Som of a gun! Cool beans! Also take along your vin list of COPO,Yenko, ZL1 s. Look for exhaust plate left rear frame rail, 427 crayon marked on inner front fender extensions. Single fuel line. Take lots of pics of firewall area and study or post here. Upper radiator shroud bracket.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

...found a first week of Nov. 69 Camaro that has X-44

Does that mean it was Body Date Nov. of 1969
or
69 Camaro - Nov. 1968 Body Date

Does the VIN predate this one = N578xxx

My study data is showing COPO production basically from Jan 69 - Oct 69.
Either way November is a bit Early - or a bit Late.

The earliest cars are suggested to mostly have all been Yenko Cars. And that would also include 9737 Sports Car Package on the car - to possibly verify also.

Definitely go inspect car regardless - these rules of thumb should probably always have room for updates and evidence revisions.

I compiled a whole list of specifics to check.
Would you like me to share it here ?
Its right much info.

[wrench]

First week nov 1969 body numbers reset on cowl tag. Some copo's were built in nov 69. Vin starts with 70

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

That definitely sounds better than the Nov 1968 alternative !

I think you are definitely onto something.
Good Luck !

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Chassis:
Should have power front discs [racers would delete them sometimes]

COPO-specific 12 bolt posi BE code axle.

HD rear five-leaf springs

All had dual exhausts and should have the hanger plate tack-welded to the LH rear frame rail.
2" by 5" plate with two threaded holes in it welded to the drivers side of the rear frame rail right outboard of the shock.


Body:
All had the ducted hood with factory wiring through hole above fuse box junction.

Cowl Induction relay on the firewall, up and to the right of the heater box. shiny silver relay

Cowl induction throttle arm

Single 3/8" Fuel line - no return line and the retaining clips should have NO provision for a return line.


Residual pressure valve in the brake line on the sub frame under the drivers seat.

4-speed must have Muncie-specific speedo cable routing.

Length of the clutch Z-bar. 9-1/2" is Big Block. 9" is small block, or I6.

No CID badging holes on front fenders by marker lights

Camaro on Fenders , Blue Bowtie in Grille and on Rear Body Panel

Standard grill

If the car has a tach, should be 7k Total with 6k Redline

Cooling:
HD radiator with 90º upper hose connection.
Curved Outlet Top Driver side

BigBlock Heater Core Cover - outlets in middle of Box

Big Block motor mount perches

Big block springs in the front and rear.


COPO option 9737 Sport Car Pkg
140 mph Speedo
Center Dash Fuel Gauge
13/16" front sway bar
15" wheels - usually Rally
*after May 69 - In Dash Tacho

COPO option 9511 -
Special HD gears in Special HD housing = 4.56 and 4.88
Sometimes supplied inside of a BE Axle as an assembly line substitute .
I didn't record the proposed proper codes for this - sorry
- from the shoulder - maybe BT and BX ?

[wrench]

Thanks, all good information I will take this list and go look

[R68GTO]

First week nov 1969 body numbers reset on cowl tag. Some copo's were built in nov 69. Vin starts with 70

FWIW, my 09D COPO has a VIN of N690***.

[1971ls6]

Dont forget no chrome around headlights , taillight verticle chrome, pedals, wheel lips, gills, drip rail, unless it’s a double Copo 9737.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

X44 and no style trim is hand-in-hand ... but I am going to add all that to my data so it covers everything for everybody in the future when i copy and paste it.

The things i listed above are the main core factors for making determination.

Of course, i wouldn't pass one up if a few trim pieces had been added over the years. :smile:

9737 would not bring any exterior body trim onto the car.

X11 COPO variant would bring style trim.

RS COPO variant might also bring style trim, not 100% sure on that.
Will try to find out.

Will add all this to my data in a secondary sub-section.

Some restored COPO's and Yenko's get a few extra pieces of trim by owner preference.
Have seen it , and don't mind it. I like it and would prefer it myself.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Yes on RS and style trim package.

Another note - RS COPO would kick the code into being X11 also.
If i understand it correctly.

[Unreal]

Great information about what to look for in a COPO. However, most would apply to any big block, although the only big block with X11 or X44 would be a COPO. This is good information for unrestored possible COPOs, I would not use it to confirm restored COPO. As an example, my X11 Yenko replica has every one of the items you cite, and it is clearly not a real COPO.

Minor point on the 9737, Center fuel gauge would only be used with in-dash tach. If the car was ordered without the optional tach, (in the earlier period when it was optional) the fuel guage would be in the right pod of the instrument panel (standard placement)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thanks UnReal.
The credit for this list mostly all goes to You , William , Bentley and 1 or 2 other fellows whose names escape me at the moment.

I combed through the COPO section archives looking for the most relevant threads. Basically logging only the factoids that had been re-confirmed numerous times over , by numerous guys in the know.

It should get folks going in the right directions on previous unknown finds.
This is for the lucky guys with the lucky fresh found prospects.

Still has a little more room for more polishing.
Need more exact info about Muncie BB speedo cable hole and its routing.
And whether those differ from sbc.
Definite 4.56 and 4.88 COPO HD Axle codes

Didn't include the full list on everything. It gets really huge.
Early / Late ,
every X variant
Yenko stuff ,
on and on ......
Edited this listing mostly just for a Late X44 COPO , and the basics.


Its too much of a list to drop in one shot without being overwhelming to most casual readers.

When its more polished - could drop it ALL somewhere on the Forum
- IF - they wanted it all posted in 1 spot.



And Best of Luck to Wrench on this X44 prospect ! :flag:
you better hustle your azz over there and see this thing !

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Maybe to be more clear
of course i did the list for myself, first and foremost.
But i don't mind sharing .

[Kurt S]

It should all be covered here: http://www.camaros.org/diffs69.shtml, though with less words.

[1971ls6]

CRG is to camaro what Ncrs is to corvettes, except the people are more down to earth

[Mr70]

So true.

[m22mike]

CRG is to camaro what Ncrs is to corvettes, except the people are more down to earth



AND...most of the Camaro questions I see here and on some other sight, the answers can most always be found at CRG.
If you are new to 1st gen's spend some day's exploring the CRG, might take some time to learn to navigate there but worth it.
Also the 1st Gen Camaro assy process is a must read.


http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml


Mike

[firstgenaddict]

AND...most of the Camaro questions I see here and on some other sight, the answers can most always be found at CRG.
If you are new to 1st gen's spend some day's exploring the CRG, might take some time to learn to navigate there but worth it.
Also the 1st Gen Camaro assy process is a must read.


http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml


Mike

THIS IS YOUR FRIEND LEARN IT AND KNOW IT BACK AND FORTH... it will help immensely when determining if a car is or is not original.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Knowledge is Wisdom
Wisdom is Power

I went through a ton of related archived threads in COPO section.
Back all the way to around 2004 .

The common theme - through and through -
Most all the guys just wanted to know -on the spot- what to do.

Maybe after they found their $2500 COPO - they went through the abundance of CRG.
It is massive. And invaluable.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Hello Wrench ,
What did you find out about this car ?