View Full Version : To feel bad? Was just trying to help!
Long story short. Helped a good friend of mine not get stung on buying a copo car that was claimed to be #s matching the whole ball of wax. Went with him checked it out, very nice car but was cloned, fake paper work, trim tag, motor etc.
I did not say anything to the seller made several notes. After we left I told him run it is not what he says showed him why and what was done. Saved him 185k. So after a day the seller calls my buddy asking him what is up he tells him going to pass and his reasons why.
The guy goes ballistic on him!!! Saying I was full of u know what, it is real and if he finds out we say otherwise he is going to sue us and we are taking money out of his pocket.
Never experienced anything like that before. Anyone ever have this happen? Are we not suppose to do the right thing?
L_e_e
10-17-2018, 04:28 PM
Tell the seller to post all the info and pictures proving its a real deal car on this site if he has nothing to worry about.
mockingbird812
10-17-2018, 06:08 PM
Long story short. Helped a good friend of mine not get stung on buying a copo car that was claimed to be #s matching the whole ball of wax. Went with him checked it out, very nice car but was cloned, fake paper work, trim tag, motor etc.
I did not say anything to the seller made several notes. After we left I told him run it is not what he says showed him why and what was done. Saved him 185k. So after a day the seller calls my buddy asking him what is up he tells him going to pass and his reasons why.
The guy goes ballistic on him!!! Saying I was full of u know what, it is real and if he finds out we say otherwise he is going to sue us and we are taking money out of his pocket.
Never experienced anything like that before. Anyone ever have this happen? Are we not suppose to do the right thing?
His strong reaction could be a result that he paid up for the car when he originally bought it thinking it was real and your detective work just burst his bubble.
Steve Shauger
10-17-2018, 06:37 PM
He has recourse unless he was the one who cloned it. He should have a friend like you with him if he in fact bought it as real. Based on what you've disclosed it's a fake throughout and you won't be the last guy who informs him. If the owner truly wanted to get to the truth he would have someone authenticate or post some pics on this site. Congrats on helping your friend. :beers:
SS427
10-17-2018, 08:51 PM
Happens to me a lot. I inspect many LS6 cars and a vast majority of them are fake. The owners often times go crazy on me even though I prove what I detect. The worst ones are when the buyer hires me AFTER he has bought the car and then will not accept my findings and I become the A-hole. Yes, a LOT of people who are greedy and dishonest have ruined this hobby.
70 copo
10-17-2018, 09:02 PM
Long story short. Helped a good friend of mine not get stung on buying a copo car that was claimed to be #s matching the whole ball of wax. Went with him checked it out, very nice car but was cloned, fake paper work, trim tag, motor etc.
I did not say anything to the seller made several notes. After we left I told him run it is not what he says showed him why and what was done. Saved him 185k. So after a day the seller calls my buddy asking him what is up he tells him going to pass and his reasons why.
The guy goes ballistic on him!!! Saying I was full of u know what, it is real and if he finds out we say otherwise he is going to sue us and we are taking money out of his pocket.
Never experienced anything like that before. Anyone ever have this happen? Are we not suppose to do the right thing?
This is a pretty small hobby for the real cars. If you do not mind please cut us in on the city where the seller lives. Just the city :)
WILMASBOYL78
10-17-2018, 09:29 PM
Measure twice...cut once.
Nice job!
-wilma
Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. I would never claim I am an expert by no means and I have relied on many of you for help on stuff I have purchased. I have helped out many guys just because I love the cars and never expected a dime. He either knew or was scammed buy the previous person.
I had asked some questions of who did the resto and it was oh some guy up on the east coast. That was a red flag, the block was decked, asked if it had a picture of a before it was and of course I will have to find it. Radiator was out of 67 Camaro. Car is north of Dallas, car is a garnet red 69 camaro.
Mr. Chevy
10-18-2018, 02:20 AM
Sue, Sue Sue.... Everyone is so sue happy. Sue for what? You guys did nothing wrong. "Taking money out of his pocket" What a joke that is also...
Laugh at the seller and tell him he is full of crap.
Rich
novadude
10-18-2018, 12:36 PM
How can a seller threaten legal action against a person who decides that they do not want to purchase an item the seller has offered for sale? People are really nuts!
YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY
10-18-2018, 03:25 PM
How can a seller threaten legal action against a person who decides that they do not want to purchase an item the seller has offered for sale? People are really nuts!
Sounds like healthcare insurance.... :D
442w30
10-18-2018, 03:26 PM
Yes, a LOT of people who are greedy and dishonest have ruined this hobby.
Yet plenty of people still don't understand why rebodies are bad juju.
68l30
10-18-2018, 04:27 PM
Yet plenty of people still don't understand why rebodies are bad juju.
I was following the recent FB discussion.....Some will never understand it.
BIG
MYSTERYCHEVELLE
10-18-2018, 05:46 PM
Rick Nelson: I feel ya buddy. We've both experienced this often. I evaluate 66 and 67 SS 's all throughout the year. Sometimes for buyers. Sometimes for sellers. Sometimes for both. I very often have to deliver bad news to the owner., the car is not numbers matching. Or the trim tag or vin tag is repro. Deck Pad restamped., etc etc etc. or sometimes just simply explaining the car's value is nowhere what they think!!
I have had experienced everything in terms of response to bad news and usually the strong reactions are a result of so many buyers., currently buying or previously bought... Not having had the car authenticated. They realize how dumb or naive they were to just believe it was what they were told :( it's a hard pill to swallow. and they Get Defensive.
A car doesn't have to be a RARE One of Ten or a Copo or Yenko or anything special to have someone evaluate it. Or for it to have been tampered with. We all work hard for our money and if you are about to spend that money, why wouldn't you hire someone to possibly save you from making a financial mistake? People seem to do more Research prior to buying their new flat screen tv than they do on a $60,000 plus car 🤔🤔
I also try to give sellers some slack, even well respected collectors sometimes are selling cars they purchased 15 or 20 years ago that are fakes and they didn't even know it because they didn't do their due dilligence. Again, it's not always the current owner that is to blame for selling a fake, so you have to just do YOUR Homework.
Deep Breaths !!
SS427
10-18-2018, 07:10 PM
I inspected two for a very well known race car team owner and with a huge car collection. In less than 15 minutes I determined that both his LS5 and LS6 converts were fake and VERY obvious fakes. Not only was he very unhappy, I never got paid and he sold one of those cars at a later auction as real and then recommended to another guy to call me to get my feelings on another car that was at the same auction. Really?????? Sometimes you just cannot win.
njsteve
10-18-2018, 07:23 PM
I inspected two for a very well known race car team owner and with a huge car collection. In less than 15 minutes I determined that both his LS5 and LS6 converts were fake and VERY obvious fakes. Not only was he very unhappy, I never got paid and he sold one of those cars at a later auction as real and then recommended to another guy to call me to get my feelings on another car that was at the same auction. Really?????? Sometimes you just cannot win.
In the future you should tell them that a condition of the examination process is that you are paid in advance. Or at the very least inform them beforehand that if you don't get payment for your services, the results of the examination are no longer confidential and can be released to the public - kind of like attorney client privilege - the privilege is no longer in effect if the client doesn't pay the bill. That should shake their wallet loose if they are angry about finding out they have a fake and still want to misrepresent the car at a later auction.
novadude
10-18-2018, 07:55 PM
.....even well respected collectors sometimes are selling cars they purchased 15 or 20 years ago that are fakes and they didn't even know it....
This is an interesting point. "fakes" are not new in this hobby. I recall many Malibus getting cloned into SS396 cars even 25-30 years ago. The difference is that there is much more at stake now ($$$$) and shady sellers are getting better at all the little details that separate real from fake.
Charley Lillard
10-18-2018, 10:32 PM
I inspected two for a very well known race car team owner and with a huge car collection. In less than 15 minutes I determined that both his LS5 and LS6 converts were fake and VERY obvious fakes. Not only was he very unhappy, I never got paid and he sold one of those cars at a later auction as real and then recommended to another guy to call me to get my feelings on another car that was at the same auction. Really?????? Sometimes you just cannot win.
Who was it that did not pay you and sold it as real ?
R68GTO
10-19-2018, 12:34 AM
Are we not suppose to do the right thing?
Quote above from the OP.....You are supposed to do the right thing - I appreciate you and others are willing to help people out, whether you do so for a fee or not. I've been a muscle car enthusiast since high school (early '80's). I bought my GTO in 2006 and that experience is the basis for my opinion here. The seller misrepresented the car in many ways and me, just having basic knowledge on the subject and a general "trust" in people made the deal. Once I had the car and started hanging out on the Performance Years Board, I was exposed to people that truly knew the ins and outs of GTO's. Just by reading posts, and communicating with knowledgeable folks, I came to realize all the stuff that wasn't "right" on my car. I recently sold the car after 12 years of ownership and took a bath on it because I represented the car honestly. I told the prospective buyer that the VIN stamp on the engine was a re-stamp, among other key things.
Reflecting on that experience, I can't imagine in any way that I would have learned all the stuff I needed to know prior to owning the car. It takes a lot of time and research, and who is really going to do that when you don't even know what car you will end up buying for sure. I could have done a better job than I did, so I just chalked it up to my own stupidity. The stuff I've learned on this board and from the people I've met is staggering to me. No way I could have or would have done that prior to actually purchasing the car. This is why the service you offer is so important....for most people, it's their 1st time and they need the help. That's my 2 cents.
bashton
10-19-2018, 12:39 AM
Welcome to my world! Do you know how many cars that have been presented to me with no proof of being what is represented have owners that go crazy when I say they need to provide proof and docs to qualify to be in the show....
The stories I could tell...
You did the right thing and tell the seller to pound sand.
To me the world is black and white. No ifs or in between either. I was taught to tell the truth even if it sucks no matter how bad it is. The seller ended up calling me yesterday. Wanting to know how I came bout my conclusions and evidence. I explained myself sent him information as well. After a 25 minute conversation he said what should I do now? I told him well you could sell it as a nice clone or try and go back on the people who represented it to you and lied.
olredalert
10-19-2018, 03:03 PM
----I can only guess how mad I would have been in his place. I have done many, many un-official surveys and its tough to do. It sounds as if there was an apology in there somewhere?......Bill S
PeteLeathersac
10-19-2018, 04:16 PM
'
Nicely played Sean and the truth is never wrong, whether someone likes it or not.
Sorry for the seller if duped by others but like your friend did, he should have reached out to someone more knowledgeable.
Best move now is break the cycle and post the Vin so we here also others can Google up the truth whenever this subject vehicle comes up again.
:beers:
~ Pete
.
BCreekDave
10-19-2018, 04:38 PM
Welcome to my world! Do you know how many cars that have been presented to me with no proof of being what is represented have owners that go crazy when I say they need to provide proof and docs to qualify to be in the show....
The stories I could tell...
You did the right thing and tell the seller to pound sand.
Bob, what docs are usually required? Is there a list or web site?
'
Nicely played Sean and the truth is never wrong, whether someone likes it or not.
Sorry for the seller if duped by others but like your friend did, he should have reached out to someone more knowledgeable.
Best move now is break the cycle and post the Vin so we here also others can Google up the truth whenever this subject vehicle comes up again.
:beers:
~ Pete
.
I felt bad for him. I completely understand why he was upset and I told him I was not trying to take money out of his pocket. He said I understand I am just in shock. I asked him to keep in contact and if I can help him I will. I will see if he minds if I post up the vin and pics. Sean
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