From Within GM Camaro-Again At Risk.

[70 copo]

From my contacts at Tech... The next refresh for Camaro has been placed on hold indefinitely.

All current design and engineering focus has shifted to Electric and driverless vehicles.

Mary Barra has told senior staff that sales must improve "or the car is gone".

As of now no new Product identified for Lansing Grand River Assembly after 2022

[BCreekDave]

I think the 2019 version is going to kill it. Not an inspired design at all.
I think they are going like Ford to drop all conventional car designs in favor of CUV's-SUV's and hybrids-electric vehicles.

[rlw68]

Yea my neighbors Tesla model S will smoke my Z in the 0-60mph but it aint nearly as fun to drive :) imho. He pays a LOT more property tax every year too lol.

[Postsedan]

Sad

Dan

[70 copo]

I think the 2019 version is going to kill it. Not an inspired design at all.
I think they are going like Ford to drop all conventional car designs in favor of CUV's-SUV's and hybrids-electric vehicles.

History repeats.

Back in 96 the same thing happened. The bean counters managed the decline of the car starting in 1996 when the same “at risk” talk started. The 1998 refresh gave the car a Sebring front end look to match the Celica look out back.

They created the conditions for failure.

[markinnaples]

The cycle of life at GM; once the bean counters take over, everything gets drilled down to the sales and profits. Just the way things go I guess.

[Steve Shauger]

The Mustang seems to be selling quite nicely, so there is a market. With information like this getting out it will help kill a product. Yes there will be loyalist who will campaign to keep it, but this is just a bad strategy. :thumbsdown:


For clarification this was not directed towards the original poster. As far as aesthetics, the Mustang is a much more appealing car to me.

[seventieshow]

"The Mustang seems to be selling quite nicely, so there is a market..."

But that market is just so large and the Camaro is more expensive and the people I know, and myself, are not fans of the styling. The front end on the 2019 car, the SS in particular, is just plain ugly to me. A shame, because the Alpha platform and the cars performance is impressive.

[carnut4life]

I've been a GM guy my whole life but the 5th and 6th gen Camaro's are by far the least attractive of the new late model pony cars imo. When word of the 6th generation Camaro came around I was really hoping the design queues would resemble the 2nd gen Camaro instead of the 1st gens again but was sadly disappointed. I've long thought the 2nd gen cars had a much better chance to have a successful retro design created in their likeness but it looks like that will never happen.

[70 copo]

GM actually cut $2000 dollars off of the car to make it more competitive on cost against the Mustang, but since GM has no advertising budget for the car few know about it.

[Crush]

I bought the 5th gen when it first came out 2ss inferno orange 426 hp fun car sold it to buy a ZL1. Ended not doing that but waited and bought a 15 Z28 this year. Unbeliable car w NA 427! Love driving it. Might be the last Z for a while.

[442w30]

I've been a GM guy my whole life but the 5th and 6th gen Camaro's are by far the least attractive of the new late model pony cars imo.

There's a good chance you're not the target market.

Look what happened to the Corvette – it was the first Vette in ages to not be designed for the gold chain set. Chevrolet styled it for a demographic that will not statistically die in 10 years. That's why it looks like a Transformer.

And that was spearheaded by the revived Camaro 10 years ago.

But I'm not down on the idea that the Camaro is going to suffer a fate at the feet of bean counters. It didn't help Chevrolet's reputation that the Camaro was MIA for several years, and I think the Camaro's current reputation is so strong that it would be a folly to mess with a good thing. If Chevrolet needs extra product capacity (as it did when the Camaro was discontinued the first time), GM will find a way without compromising the Camaro's existence. And since the Camaro's platform is shared with other GM vehicles, the economies of scale would suffer if it was discontinued.

Nope, not falling for the doom and gloom just yet.

[Big Block Bill]

The Mustang seems to be selling quite nicely, so there is a market. With information like this getting out it will help kill a product. Yes there will be loyalist who will campaign to keep it, but this is just a bad strategy. :thumbsdown:


For clarification this was not directed towards the original poster. As far as aesthetics, the Mustang is a much more appealing car to me.

I have been a Chevrolet Guy my whole life as a Master Certified ASE Technician (40 years) When looking for another "Toy" I looked at a new Loaded, 2018 ZL-1 Camaro ($67,500.00 out the door after deep discounts) a new 2018 Scat-Pack Shaker Hood Challenger ($47,500 out the door / but dated styling) and ended up with a Loaded 2019 Black Mustang GT California Special with the 3:55 Gear and the new 10 Speed Automatic ($50,000.00 out the door after an "X" Plan employee discount through a Friend's Wife. Let me tell you it WILL make you a believer! With 460 Horsepower & 11.80 1/4 times out of the box from the factory, and styling to look like a 1968 Shelby GT-500, it puts a smile on my Face everytime I get behind the wheel.

Like I posted before when I first got it, my oldest Son said I must have went over to the "Dark Side" or hit my Head REALLY Hard recently. I have taken a LOT of Flack from a LOT of people for buying a FORD, Go test drive one and you will see what I mean. The 10 Speed is Un-believable with the Active Exhaust and the 3:55 Gear option. It is the best option currently available in my opinion for the money.

Bill

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The cycle of life at GM; once the bean counters take over, everything gets drilled down to the sales and profits. Just the way things go I guess.

Hate to see it go - again, but remember GM is in business to make money and while they prob make some profit on the Camaro the impact on overall company profit is very likely dilutive from a percentage basis. So, coming from a 'beancounter', I'm surprised it lasted this long - simply because GM expects contribution margin percentage from a model they really don't invest in.... It's simple math, unfortunately.

[427TJ]

I have been a Chevrolet Guy my whole life as a Master Certified ASE Technician (40 years) When looking for another "Toy" I looked at a new Loaded, 2018 ZL-1 Camaro ($67,500.00 out the door after deep discounts) a new 2018 Scat-Pack Shaker Hood Challenger ($47,500 out the door / but dated styling) and ended up with a Loaded 2019 Black Mustang GT California Special with the 3:55 Gear and the new 10 Speed Automatic ($50,000.00 out the door after an "X" Plan employee discount through a Friend's Wife. Let me tell you it WILL make you a believer! With 460 Horsepower & 11.80 1/4 times out of the box from the factory, and styling to look like a 1968 Shelby GT-500, it puts a smile on my Face everytime I get behind the wheel.

Like I posted before when I first got it, my oldest Son said I must have went over to the "Dark Side" or hit my Head REALLY Hard recently. I have taken a LOT of Flack from a LOT of people for buying a FORD, Go test drive one and you will see what I mean. The 10 Speed is Un-believable with the Active Exhaust and the 3:55 Gear option. It is the best option currently available in my opinion for the money.

Bill

Similar revelation back in 1987 when I bought an LX 5.0! Bang for the buck! Just under 13K and, for 1987, a blast to drive. I had been all-Chevy before that.

[camarojoe]

I could never understand how they could expect to sell a car they have never advertised, even a little bit.

[JRC99]

Chevy's advertising is simply awful. Come to think of it, Ford's isn't very good either. I think Dodge is the only one I've seen advertising their performance cars. Must be why I see so many Challengers and Chargers.

[lowmile]

I'm dyed in the wool GM guy. But IMO the Camaro is a very distant third in design appeal. They should have called these guys for help, They started with the same car and at least took a decent swing at it.

[rlw68]

From my contacts at Tech... The next refresh for Camaro has been placed on hold indefinitely.

All current design and engineering focus has shifted to Electric and driverless vehicles.

Mary Barra has told senior staff that sales must improve "or the car is gone".

As of now no new Product identified for Lansing Grand River Assembly after 2022

That could apply to anything in the GM line though. Just business at some point. However maybe not for the Camaro...

https://stanfordmag.org/contents/what-drives-mary-barra


Aint gonna happen, imho :)

[70 copo]

I Hope you are right. Perhaps the text message received by the engineer from his boss was a prank?

"Stop all work on "F" refresh. Project is mothballed until further notice"

Again, I hope you are right.

I am telling everybody I know to go out and buy a new Camaro.

[camarojoe]

I Hope you are right. Perhaps the text message received by the engineer from his boss was a prank?

"Stop all work on "F" refresh. Project is mothballed until further notice"

Again, I hope you are right.

I am telling everybody I know to go out and buy a new Camaro.


Do they even refer to current Camaros as "F" bodies? Maybe the F now stands for failure... or fugly.

[70 copo]

"F" now identifies the car line within the body style. Gen 5 was built on the Zeta platform. Gen 6 is built on the Alpha platform.

[1967Z28]

The performance capabilities of the Camaro are very good. The styling of the car is terrible and the pricing is just too high. Who wants to shell out that kind of money for something you can't get excited about looking at?

[markinnaples]

Honestly, I don't get the hate for the Sixth Gen. I have a 2017 Camaro and I truly think the body style is a beautiful as almost any previous gen as well as almost any other car out there. The proportions are almost perfect. Again, my opinion, but I love it.

[cook_dw]

2016-2018 6th gen for ok imo. 2019 updates were terrible.. hate to say it but the new mustangs have the styling and the performance. Dodge & GM just have performance. I actually liked the LS versions of the 4th gen better than the 5th & 6th gens..

[Steve Shauger]

It was stated in a previous post, why spend all the development dollars improving the car, and not have a marketing plan or budget. I don't remember seeing a TV ad for a Camaro in years. I guess the Camaro is supposed to sell it self. I can't see them letting the Mustang go it alone, and the ride, handling and drivetrain in the latest Camaro is phenomenal. Maybe it's the marketing that Ford has done on the Mustang which makes it so appealing.

[L78racer]

Would anyone consider owning an electric production Camaro? GM is going that direction. Do they need 'new' model names for that content?- thus ceasing the Camaro.
Would a rebirth of the Firebird as an electric be marketable?

[seventieshow]

"Would a rebirth of the Firebird as an electric be marketable?..." I don't know but but I couldn't think of a better name for an electric/hybrid car.

[rlw68]

It was stated in a previous post, why spend all the development dollars improving the car, and not have a marketing plan or budget. I don't remember seeing a TV ad for a Camaro in years. I guess the Camaro is supposed to sell it self. I can't see them letting the Mustang go it alone, and the ride, handling and drivetrain in the latest Camaro is phenomenal. Maybe it's the marketing that Ford has done on the Mustang which makes it so appealing.


They were able to create a 50th Hot Wheels but not a 50th Z/28 :confused2: ...'Nuff said.

[cook_dw]

Would anyone consider owning an electric production Camaro? GM is going that direction. Do they need 'new' model names for that content?- thus ceasing the Camaro.
Would a rebirth of the Firebird as an electric be marketable?


They are testing the reaction & interest with this..


https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2018/oct/sema/1029-e-copo.html


https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=151565

[Charley Lillard]

A electric car would be fine with me if it made power like gas cars are. Full torque at 0 rpm.

[cook_dw]

9’s in the 1/4.

[BCreekDave]

9’s in the 1/4.

And 9 minutes in the mile....ran out of battery in the 1/4!

[cook_dw]

Purpose built. Doesn’t need to go past 1/4.. :wink:

[70 copo]

The GM shift in policy is reported on here:

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/413399-overnight-energy-gm-pushes-for-national-electric-car-mandate

[69LM1]

Looks like GM is announcing that Oshawa is shuttering.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/general-motors-to-shut-down-all-operations-in-oshawa-1.4191946#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=Whl7hcM

While the union does not have complete details of the overall announcement we have been informed that, as of now, there is no product allocated to the Oshawa Assembly Plant past December 2019

But, they also said:

An announcement of no product allocation would not necessarily mean a closure.

Then they go on to:

The indications are that the closure may be part of a global restructuring of the company and that there could be other plant closures around the world, sources said.

It’s not clear whether other GM jobs in Markham, Ingersoll and St. Catharines could be affected as well.

A spokesperson for GM said in an email Sunday night that the company had no news or comment to share and would not comment on “speculation.”



/Rich

[70 copo]

It's now public... Cruze, Volt, and Impala are gone. :(

[Charley Lillard]

How many on this site bought a current Cruze, Volt or Impala ?

[70 copo]

Lordstown -home to the Cruze

Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly Plant - Home of the Volt and Impala

Oshawa- home to the Cadillac XTS and Chevrolet Impala

[Mr70]

I hit one with my truck last year.Had no idea I did till the owner notified me.

[70 copo]

Impala sold 43,900 units in 2018
Camaro sold 39,800 units in 2018

Perhaps the better question is how many people on this site own a newer Camaro?

I am told Mary likes the Camaro brand and its legacy. She is the one and only reason the ax did not fall here and now.

[70 copo]

Everything built on the Alpha Platform needs to start selling or it could be next.

[Mr70]

With the Oshawa plant now closing,is there going to be a mad rush to get VVS Documentation from them more than ever before?

[GotGrunt]

With the Oshawa plant now closing,is there going to be a mad rush to get VVS Documentation from them more than ever before?

AFAIK, VVS is a separate entity and not owned by GM of Canada. They actually stopped using the GM of Canada logo on their letterhead a few years ago.

[JayR]

Initially, VVS was in the GM Canada head office building on Colonel Sam Drive in Oshawa. A few years ago they moved to a building next door. It was at that time they became known as Vintage Vehicle Services. As mentioned, they are a separate entity and, hopefully, will not be affected by the Oshawa plant closure.

Bob

[JRSully]

Anybody drive one of the newer Impala's.? with the V6, it flies and is quiet as heck. A LOT of car for the money

[1967Z28]

How many on this site bought a current Cruze, Volt or Impala ?

I have a 2015 Cruze, not the latest one, but it is a good car.

[442w30]

I rented the old-gen Cruze when I moved to Cali, and it was such a nice beater that I looked at a new-gen one for 2017. Unfortunately, couldn't get a stick with sunroof so I went with Mazda.

Overall, sedan sales are in the crapper across the board in the U.S. Everyone wants crossovers and SUVs. This is the reality of our world at the moment.

[KingKoser06]

Unfortunately, it's just typical GM doing GM things. Personally, I am just now starting to like 5th Gen Camaros, but as for the next redesigns after, no thanks. I feel like the Mustang, Challenger and other late model muscle cars just have more to offer than the Camaro. Sad about the Impala though. Yeah its FWD, but still had some sharp angles in the right color.

Just my two cents,

Alex

[markinnaples]

I have a 2017 Camaro RS convertible that, IMHO, is one of the prettiest designs GM has ever made. The proportions are just right in my eyes, and except for it being a little short on torque, the power is pretty good at 335hp. BUT, it's definitely got a couple issues. The first is the 8 speed auto is pretty vague when trying to find a gear and it bucks pretty good on down shifts, but the biggest gripe I have is the interior. Pretty decent design, but the quality quite frankly sux pretty bad. The plastic is hard and scratches if you look at it wrong, and the seat bolsters are already starting to get worn and pull apart with less than 30K miles. Ridiculous for a car with a sticker of $37K. Honestly, I think they need to fire everyone who works in the interior department and start from scratch. In this day and age, there is no excuse for using 1970's plastic in a new car.

[Astock]

I sold my 2007 zo6 w/2,800 miles. Couldn't take how cheap the car felt. Great engine though. Hated the 1 to 4...ridiculous!
Our friends that live up the street bought a new Camaro after someone rear ended her M3. We have 25mph S turns between our houses, and she always complained how wide the Camaro felt, and called it a cartoon car. The Vette felt wide too.
They hit a home run with the 1st gen Camaro because of it's size. Make a smaller, more proportionate high performance car like a 911, S4, M3-M5,STI...
And put a little build quality in the interior.

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/RZpkgHBB/BBQ9VrJ.png (https://postimages.org/)

[danachevroletfor1967]

I think that chart says it all. Auto manufacturers are not going to keep on building vehicles that fewer and fewer people buy.

[GotGrunt]

I can’t tell you how many new Chargers I see on the road every single day. FCA must be doing something right.

[70 copo]

It is not that the sedans are gone, they are being literally replaced right in front of our eyes. If you sit in a sedan or a coupe today you are treated to a near claustrophobic driving experience, I term it as I cant see SH*T. Why?

Safety regulations heavily applied to cars and not SUV's or light trucks- that's why.

These same regulations that do not apply to the SUV the same way which allows the loop hole production of so called "crossovers" which has nearly entirely replaced the market for cars in general.

The Manufacturers know well that the progressive media demonized the SUV in general starting about 15 years ago so they simply began making a version of the SUV based on an automobile chassis. In technical terms these vehicles are Mini SUV's, compact SUV's and mid size SUV's.

So you sit in a so called "crossover" you sit higher, you can usually see all around your vehicle and feel more in control of the driving situation and all wheel drive then makes the vehicle highly attractive.

So, If a Camaro was reborn as a sport crossover - sales would explode. :) :)

The end game is autonomous vehicles and ride sharing and the complete end of automobile ownership.

The transformation of the car from an extension of who you are socially to the branding of an appliance ownership experience is sadly nearly complete.

My 2 cents after getting opinions from people on the inside... just sayin' :)

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/MKFp58hn/BBQhB3X.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/jj5VFWPK/BBQgoU8.png (https://postimg.cc/LJr0q8x0)

[L78M22Rag]

If a Camaro was reborn as a sport crossover - a lot of us would bit** and complain about the horror of it, but I kinda agree... sales might just explode.

[novadude]

Anybody drive one of the newer Impala's.? with the V6, it flies and is quiet as heck. A LOT of car for the money

I love 'em! It's my "go to" in the rental car parking lots. We bought my wife a 2016 Lacrosse (essentially the same car, just more upscale) and it has been great.

[70 copo]

If a Camaro was reborn as a sport crossover - a lot of us would bit** and complain about the horror of it, but I kinda agree... sales might just explode.

The link below is 100% sarcasm...but there is a tinge of truth to it. Warning... you might laugh!



https://autowise.com/2019-camaro-crossover-confirmed/

[70 copo]

The buzzards are circling now.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/06/camaro-rurmored-to-be-put-out-to-pasture-after-2023/

[70 copo]

More buzzards...

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1123780_7th-generation-chevrolet-camaro-reportedly-cancelled-nameplate-to-die