Gen 3 Nova's, GM TRUE performance car????

[EZ Nova]

I've been thinking about this for a while now. I really think GM had the Nova as THE PERFORMANCE car after the Corvette back in these years. Even to the point of not letting employees/dealers know? GM was behind there "pony" car Camaro. But for there street-raced straight line performance car, I think they we backing the Nova's.

My take on this is, other than 427 COPO's, your could get basically the same top of the line L78's. Both the Camaro and Chevelle could get the 396/325Hp motor, but Nova it wasn't available. Also BB 396 and A/C? Both Camaro and Chevelle could get 396's with A/C, yet the Nova again NOT AVAILABLE. So now add to the fact that a L78 4 sp Nova is lighter than a L78 Camaro, just seems that GM was looking to keep their compact lightweight Nova and there true street brawler? I know a number of guys that bought these new back in '69/'70. And I do believe that they were actually faster than a local COPO 427 Chevelle that was running around at the time too. I know of a couple L78 Nova's that ran well back then. Headers, curved distributor, jetted carb and 7" slick. These would run consistent mid 11's.

These guys always told me back in the day, very very few L78 Camaro's could run with them. Funny story. A good friend of mine bought and race a new '69 L78 Nova. After doing well running 11.60's he had enough money for a new paint job. See even though were Canadian, he painted it "Stars and Stripes" and was quite well know as "The Stars and Stripes" Nova. Well car is still local, but the owner is going to finish it one day, type of deal and won't sell it back. So he bought another '72. It has a 502 in it and it's getting the Stars and Stripe paint in the next 2 years. He says he doesn't recall loing to a OEM style Camaro.

Thoughts????

[L78_Nova]

I have heard many unconfirmed street race stories of my 70 L78 Nova from previous owners. Rumors persist that it was never beat by any other stock appearing musclecars at the time. Car was not super fast by any means (very low 13's) but worked well on the street.


Previous owner Had it set up with a 3.10? low gear T-10, 4.11 gears, Sintered iron disc and little sticky hoosiers. He would drop the clutch at full throttle from the lights and be pulling second gear across the intersection!


He also ran that car for three season in the local bracket race series. IT IS UTTERLY AMAZING THAT THE ORIGINAL ENGINE HAS SURVIVED.


I also own a mini tubbed 72 Nova with a 350, faceplated TKO 600, 4.33 gears and an adjustable slipper clutch. This car has run 11.64 at the track. It also surprises several cars on the street, some that should have it easily covered (like my buddies mid 10 second Camaro). On the street the launch is everything ! (but of course those days are ancient history when we were young and foolish).

[Keith Seymore]

I have heard many unconfirmed street race stories of my 70 L78 Nova from previous owners. Rumors persist that it was never beat by any other stock appearing musclecars at the time. Car was not super fast by any means (very low 13's) but worked well on the street.


Previous owner Had it set up with a 3.10? low gear T-10, 4.11 gears, Sintered iron disc and little sticky hoosiers. He would drop the clutch at full throttle from the lights and be pulling second gear across the intersection!


He also ran that car for three season in the local bracket race series. IT IS UTTERLY AMAZING THAT THE ORIGINAL ENGINE HAS SURVIVED.


I also own a mini tubbed 72 Nova with a 350, faceplated TKO 600, 4.33 gears and an adjustable slipper clutch. This car has run 11.64 at the track. It also surprises several cars on the street, some that should have it easily covered (like my buddies mid 10 second Camaro). On the street the launch is everything ! (but of course those days are ancient history when we were young and foolish).

Anything can be set up for a jaunt across the intersection.

We had a '69 GMC stepside, with a straight six bored to 305 cu in; a tripower setup with Pontiac progressive linkage, Hurst shifted 4 speed Saginaw with 3:11 low gear, and true duals (Dad created a dual outlet exhaust manifold).

Often, on the way home from work, he would run against a buddy with a small block powered pickup. That guy was pretty frustrated to get beat stoplight to stoplight by a straight six GMC on a regular basis.

K

[NorCam]

The small block Nova SS I recently bought was a pretty well known street car around the Cleveland area throughout the 70's and 80's. A few members here knew the car quite well and it was great hearing the anecdotes of the car running up against Hemi cars on the streets of Ohio back in the day. While not a 396 car, it was a small block car that was lightened with everything in the front end removed for weight loss. This included the inner fenders, firewall pad, complete heater core assembly, wipers and any vacuum lines with canister being shed. It then got a transplanted 327 with tunnel ram that was pretty stout. The car was tied together back then with vintage frame connectors, slapper bars and 8" slicks on Cragar's before the rear was outfit with 5:13 gears.

No wonder it was coined "A wickedly fast street car" back in the day. Here's a shot of it from back when the O/O built the car. Most of it survived intact and represents itself being well preserved today. As we speak it's getting it a minor makeover and drive train freshening.

https://image.ibb.co/bChCQU/IMG_1361.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/ku5ozp/IMG_1360.jpg

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/y8TchVf3/65.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The 1969 396/350 HP with 4 speed Nova SS has a curb weight of 3370 lbs.

https://i.postimg.cc/1t8FZDyD/45.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The 1966 327/350 HP with 4 speed Nova SS has a curb weight of 2899 lbs

[daverd]

I like the day 2 nova with tunnel ram

[x33rs]

A good friend of mine, whom I believe is a member here, has owned his 69 COPO Camaro since the early 70's (1972 I think) and when he bought it, it was already a street brawler with 5.13 gears, headers, slapper bars, cragars, but otherwise largely stock engine/trans.

I rode in the car many times, lived up the street from me throughout the 70's and 80's. All of us had pretty quick street cars, and plenty of others around on the streets as well, but that COPO was one of the quicker cars of that time. In the late 80's, the car still virtually unchanged, he got the bug to run it at the track after all those years. With the headers open and a pair of 28x9 slicks it went 12.20 at 114mph and was starting to lay over at the 1,000 foot mark. Kept his foot in it and ran it out the back door. Was the first and last time at the track.
Still owns the car today, leads a cushy life, with the only change being 4.56 gears to make it more streetable The car only has 20-something thousand original miles and still has it's original engine. I pestered him for a while after the gear change to go back to the track, lol. Car just got too collectable throughout the 90's and he drove it less and less.

[x33rs]

https://i.postimg.cc/y8TchVf3/65.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

The 1969 396/350 HP with 4 speed Nova SS has a curb weight of 3370 lbs.

https://i.postimg.cc/1t8FZDyD/45.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

The 1966 327/350 HP with 4 speed Nova SS has a curb weight of 2899 lbs

That's getting pretty light.

I weighed my 69 RS Z last year for giggles and it was 3423 lbs. Which is pretty darn light to me when comparing my 454 chevelle at 3,908 lbs, and my 70 RA Formula is 3600 lbs. All weighed at a certified NHRA scale with full tanks of gas. I think my sons fox body should come in around the 3100 mark, it will get scaled next time down.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Couldn't help but chime in where a Nova is concerned....

I raced a 70 L78 4 spd car back in the day...best times were probably mid 12's. Engine was basically stock...maybe a little better cam...kept the low profile intake..hurst super shifter...distributor was curved...little slapper bars...headers and Thrush mufflers. I used to borrow the slicks from a Camaro friend...we did swap the 3.55's for a 4.56 at one point, don't recall what that change did...and drove it home :smirk:

I don't remember any 11 second Novas...that's really moving in a car like that.

A couple of years back we ran our 70 L78 TH400 at the nostalgic drags at LV...that was my first trip down the 1320 since 1976 :blush:

car ran 13.9 at 100 mph....no slicks, headers with closed exhaust, 4.10 gear...60 ft time was 2.5 or 2.6 ...figured I lost it all out of the box. I have to tell you 100 mph in a 45 year old car was a little nerve racking....missed the first return opening and woke up for the second. If the car had some good tires and a better driver it would run near 13 seconds or a little better...you can't spend all day spinning the tires :drool:

[x33rs]

In the 70's and even 80's, an 11 second car on the street was extremely rare. If you had a 12 second car you pretty much ruled the roost, and even a 13 second car was nothing to sneeze at during that time frame.

There was one 11 second nova later on in the mid 90's that another friend of mine had. It was a 69 L78 auto. It had a real set of GM aluminum heads on it and a known history back to new but never could show definitively it was that way. Was a low mile car that sat for decades. Friend of mine had a front engine dragster he competed in local NHRA events so he had tons of experience racing and tuning. He freshened the L78, still stock internally, stock cam, intake/carb, no porting on anything, just a solid rebuild. Did have headers and 4.56 gears installed. Can't remember if he put any kind of converter in it. With a small slick on it and the headers opened, it made 3 passes. 11.92, 11.94, and 11.98. Remember that like yesterday but can't remember the mph. That was flying for a street car at that time. He never took the car back, street drove it for a couple years to local cruises, then sold it.

[Igosplut]

Done that.....https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g183/Igosplut/NE%20starting%20line073_zpspiheftd6.jpg (https://s56.photobucket.com/user/Igosplut/media/NE%20starting%20line073_zpspiheftd6.jpg.html)

[cwc]

I agree 100%,ofcourse i may be somewhat biased

[Mr. Chevy]

I always refer to the Novas as the "Bastard Step Children" of the Chevy family. No offense to anyone on the site here, but it seems like most prefer the Camaro, Chevelle or Corvettes. The Novas were way underrated I feel. I think they are a very cool musclecar that definitely would out run most others.

Just my biased .02

Rich

[9SECONDYENKO]

I always refer to the Novas as the "Bastard Step Children" of the Chevy family. No offense to anyone on the site here, but it seems like most prefer the Camaro, Chevelle or Corvettes. The Novas were way underrated I feel. I think they are a very cool musclecar that definitely would out run most others.

Just my biased .02

Rich

I hear that Rich I love my Nova`s

[EZ Nova]

Wow, I got more than I expected for the lowly Nova's.

FYI, I have 3 but 2 are the Gen 2 "BOX Nova's. Both a '66 and a '67. BOTH have SuperStock chassis done by Fj Smith. The '67 has leaf's roll bar removed and is now going to be a daily-driver style car with a 425Hp 427 PLUS some work. That same more ran 10.40 in my '69 SS396/350Hp car.

My '69 as stated above, SS396/350 4 sp Garnet Red black bench int sold at Chatham Motor Products. Old street racers as well. We all thought, and was told by the owner it had a 427 in it. At the time it had Zl-1 cam, headers, strip dom intake, reworked Holley 850 4.88, but the short block was actually a '72 402 4 bolt done to L78 specs. I seen the car on the street race a '78 Arrow with a 340 and nitrous. The driver missed EVERY gear (he has MS) and STILL put a fender on him. I bought it in '90 and drove it for a bit as is, but now had 4.56's. Around '95 we decided to make it a serious street racer. That when we found it it was the 402. Balance the short, ARP bolts C&A rings, ported the '70 LS6 head and put in a Comp 660 roller. That car RAN 10.47. Was booted for no roll bar. Parked it in '98 and parted some of it out.

NOW the car has a 785Hp '69 052 block ZL-1. Built T400 6000 Coan converter 4.88 with a 35 splined 12 bolt. Smith racecraft rear suspension. Painted like a '69 Yenko Nova CLONE. Will be out next year as is till I find a '69 Vette for the motor and trans.

[442w30]

Also BB 396 and A/C? Both Camaro and Chevelle could get 396's with A/C, yet the Nova again NOT AVAILABLE.

You mean to say a 396/350 was not available with AC on a Nova SS?

[Mr. Chevy]

You mean to say a 396/350 was not available with AC on a Nova SS?

That's affirmative..

Rich

[442w30]

Why would that be if the Camaro and Chevelle didn't have that restriction?

[Mr. Chevy]

I believe it had to do with room in the engine compartment, lack there of on Nova.

You could get A/C on the small block V8.

Rich

[442w30]

Don't the Camaro and Chevy II share the same subframe? Or not enough for them to be identical?

[novadude]

I believe it was Grumpy that said that he'd have rather focused on campaigning the Nova in the Late-1960s, but GM was pushing the Camaro for marketing reasons. His opinion was that the Nova made a much better drag car due to weight distribution.

Look at the overhang on a 1969 Camaro ahead of the front wheels, and compare that to a '69 Nova. The Nova in profile almost looks like an early-60s altered wheelbase car compared to the Camaro.

[racer67x]

I'm kinda partial towards tunnel rammed Nova's myself..lol https://i.imgur.com/RHhPJKQ.jpg?4

[Mr. Chevy]

Cool looking Nova. Love the Rally package.

Rich

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/y8TchVf3/65.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

The 1969 396/350 HP with 4 speed Nova SS has a curb weight of 3370 lbs.

https://i.postimg.cc/13ND64gd/jj.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

The 1969 396/350 HP with 4 speed Camaro SS has a curb weight of 3642 lbs

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I've been thinking about this for a while now. I really think GM had the Nova as THE PERFORMANCE car after the Corvette back in these years. Even to the point of not letting employees/dealers know? GM was behind there "pony" car Camaro. But for there street-raced straight line performance car, I think they we backing the Nova's.

My take on this is, other than 427 COPO's, your could get basically the same top of the line L78's. Both the Camaro and Chevelle could get the 396/325Hp motor, but Nova it wasn't available. Also BB 396 and A/C? Both Camaro and Chevelle could get 396's with A/C, yet the Nova again NOT AVAILABLE. So now add to the fact that a L78 4 sp Nova is lighter than a L78 Camaro, just seems that GM was looking to keep their compact lightweight Nova and there true street brawler? I know a number of guys that bought these new back in '69/'70. And I do believe that they were actually faster than a local COPO 427 Chevelle that was running around at the time too. I know of a couple L78 Nova's that ran well back then. Headers, curved distributor, jetted carb and 7" slick. These would run consistent mid 11's.

These guys always told me back in the day, very very few L78 Camaro's could run with them. Funny story. A good friend of mine bought and race a new '69 L78 Nova. After doing well running 11.60's he had enough money for a new paint job. See even though were Canadian, he painted it "Stars and Stripes" and was quite well know as "The Stars and Stripes" Nova. Well car is still local, but the owner is going to finish it one day, type of deal and won't sell it back. So he bought another '72. It has a 502 in it and it's getting the Stars and Stripe paint in the next 2 years. He says he doesn't recall loing to a OEM style Camaro.

Thoughts????

I disagree, IMHO. I believe the reduced amount of options was driven by cost. GM would have to invest a chunk of engineering time, production line changes, inventory, etc... for a very limited sales base. The cost/benefit simply wasn't there, so they added the BB in '68 with 1 mild and 1 wild to appeal to a limited buyer pool and then added the A/T to the L78 in '69 & '70 to increase the buyer pool and perhaps NHRA cert. The fact that the Nova is lighter than the Camaro with good geometry was not the driving force - if anything it was the limiting force which is why there's no L72 COPO Nova....

[NorCam]

FWIW, the original owner of my 69 Z (Kym Miller) ran consistent times with the Camaro in S/S JA and did so for 8 straight years finally winning a Championship in 78'. He then setup a 70 Nova for the same class and took the winning drive line out of the Camaro in 1979 and dropped it into the 70 Nova, but never got the car to run as fast as the Camaro. Exact drive line, same tires, same everything thinking the lighter car would run quicker? Well it just didn't, and he said it had to be wind resistance and/or weight distribution as the Camaro was better on the track??? Just an interesting set of events.

https://i.ibb.co/XsS87Bq/Kym-Nova-1979.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/b0vPf6/001-Kym-Miller-SS-Seattle.jpg

[earntaz]

I have had both ... but a Camaro is like a persons south end, everyone has one. Now on the other hand, a Nova ... just sayin' ... TAZ

[x33rs]

I have had both ... but a Camaro is like a persons south end, everyone has one. Now on the other hand, a Nova ... just sayin' ... TAZ

There's a good reason for that :laugh:

On a more serious note, I've owned 3 Novas and several Camaros. I like both, but like many others, I've always viewed the Nova as the economy pony car with some muscle mixed in if optioned right, but never considered it the flagship of the muscle car era for GM. The Camaro was obviously more popular then and still is today, but I'd own another Nova if the right one came along.

[earntaz]

There's a good reason for that :laugh:

On a more serious note, I've owned 3 Novas and several Camaros. I like both, but like many others, I've always viewed the Nova as the economy pony car with some muscle mixed in if optioned right, but never considered it the flagship of the muscle car era for GM. The Camaro was obviously more popular then and still is today, but I'd own another Nova if the right one came along.

Totally agree ...