They're still out there (COPO) hiding in plain sight.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

My buddy just snagged this 1969 COPO. Car was sitting on a side street in Philly for almost 3 weeks with no takers. He bought it just thinking it was a standard old Camaro race car until a closer inspection revealed what it really was. Before the orange paint, car was painted red white and blue and was called the "Northeast Gutter Slut". We are trying to find old pictures and history of this car. Car ran at Atco and on the streets of Philly for many years. Any help is appreciated.

-Matt

[Fast67VelleN2O]

More pics.

[Steve Shauger]

Wow, an amazing find. Congratulations and what a fantastic Christmas present . Wonder what dealership it sold at I'd send off for that info immediately. ..:beers:

[chevyman0429]

Wow talk about hitting the mother load! Any chance the original drive trains still with the car? Not knowing camaro all that well what’s the sure sign that it’s a copo! I know the BE is pretty significant but what’s the other signs?

[Xplantdad]

How cool is that!! Congrats....:beers:

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Wow talk about hitting the mother load! Any chance the original drive trains still with the car? Not knowing camaro all that well what’s the sure sign that it’s a copo! I know the BE is pretty significant but what’s the other signs?

Engine and transmission are not original to the car. Car was a factory 4 speed. The BE rear, factory cowl induction X44 D80 car, brake block, exhaust bracket, and a few other small tell tale signs make it what it is.

[cheveslakr]

Barn find plewey!! How about side-street find!!
I'd be oh so tempted to just clean that up a little, get it mechanically sound and have some fun. When are you gonna get the chance to run around in a real COPO and not be gunshy? Fun fun fun!
I thought about googling "northeast gutter slut" but was a little afraid where it'd take me.

[Copo_Cartel]

I had already received photos of the car from a potential buyer and the asking price was 50k...seeing what that car needs and what it will cost to restore without Motor, Transmission and Documentation...you will be upside down when it comes to value...post restoration.

[scuncio]

Cool find, I would be sending off the NCRS dealer query, might get you somewhere. Did Rob find this?

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Cool find, I would be sending off the NCRS dealer query, might get you somewhere. Did Rob find this?

No, my buddy John did.

-Matt

[Charley Lillard]

I had already received photos of the car from a potential buyer and the asking price was 50k...seeing what that car needs and what it will cost to restore without Motor, Transmission and Documentation...you will be upside down when it comes to value...post restoration.


Are you saying the seller knew it was a COPO ?

[scuncio]

No, my buddy John did.

-Matt

Gotcha. Must be a happy guy.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Are you saying the seller knew it was a COPO ?

The guy who owned it and had it on the trailer on a side street in Philly just thought it was an old race car. It was purchased as just an old race car. Wasn't until he got it home, and with the help of a buddy, figured out it was a copo. Car isn't for sale at the moment as far as I know, but who knows who takes pics and tries to see if they can have it sold before selling it is even talked about.

[nugeusa1]

Charlie, from what I understand neither the seller or the buyer knew it was a copo but the buyer found out after he got it home and priced it to a good friend. his friend clued him in that it was a copo instead of taking advantage of a buddy (that's a stand up guy in my opinion-a real friend)

[Charley Lillard]

I don't understand how it was priced at 50K. Without knowing it was a COPO I don't see anyone pricing it anywhere near that high.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

I don't understand how it was priced at 50K. Without knowing it was a COPO I don't see anyone pricing it anywhere near that high.

I don't understand what's hard to understand here. No one knew it was a COPO until it was brought home. Not sure how it was priced at 50k if the car hasn't been offered for sale since its been purchased. Like I said before, maybe someone tried to middle man the car at 50k at some point once it was found to be a COPO. Not sure who but all we want is help with race history.

[scuncio]

Cool...I take it you’re the knowledgeable buddy who decided not to take advantage of a friend. That’s good of you.

[nugeusa1]

no it wasn't me. a buddy of mine told me the story. He knows the gentleman who helped out the buyer. I don't know of anyone trying to flip this car or any thing about the money . just about a friend helping out a friend. I just think there should be more people in this world like him though. Merry Christmas to all!!!

[iluv69s]

Dam...way cool ! Good thing I did not see this one for sale! I stop at every old Camaro I see.. for sale or not! Thanks for posting Matt !!

[jl8z28]

Sammy might know the car it was found in his area and Rob Rictor he did a lot of drag racing in that area

[cook_dw]

Cool find. Be curious to know what date BE it has. I would restore to original day 2 race trim. :3gears:

[firstgenaddict]

The date appears to have been obliterated when the link brackets were welded to the housing.

[cook_dw]

My thought was if the bracket could be removed then the “day” MIGHT be untouched. There are 3 possible dates as far as I know. Might be a 4th.

[MosportGreen66]

Great find! If that car could talk...

Congrats on the COPO Matt. Can’t wait to see more

[Copo_Cartel]

Are you saying the seller knew it was a COPO ?

Yep...I was told the seller knew it was a Copo...the photos I got are mostly the photos that are posted here on the first page. The potential buyer is a member here and sent me the photos in the last 3 days

[TMagda]

I had the same question as Charlie, but now I think I get it. Some random middle man took the pictures and drummed up an offer of $50k. Is that correct? Really cool find. Love old race cars, COPO or not. Spent some time at Atco in the '70's with my 69 Camaro bracket racing and it was great fun.

[krateboy]

I had a friend who has recently passed away. His name was Fred Crown, from NE Philadelphia. He had a '69 Camaro years ago that he drag raced called the "Gutter Snipe". If you want I can try to get more info from his family. Saw the provocative name and wondered if it is the same car?

[Stefano]

Congrats, nice score. Keep us posted.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

I had a friend who has recently passed away. His name was Fred Crown, from NE Philadelphia. He had a '69 Camaro years ago that he drag raced called the "Gutter Snipe". If you want I can try to get more info from his family. Saw the provocative name and wondered if it is the same car?

Yes we heard this as well. Tried to get in touch on a Facebook but didnt know that he passed. Any help would be appreciated.

[flyingn]

interesting. NE Philly is my neighborhood. What part of Philly?

[GotGrunt]

I had already received photos of the car from a potential buyer and the asking price was 50k...seeing what that car needs and what it will cost to restore without Motor, Transmission and Documentation...you will be upside down when it comes to value...post restoration.

Question for the COPO experts... without a numbers matching block, POP, or other factory/dealer documentation, will the “tell tale signs” be enough to bring COPO money, especially after a costly restoration?

[Copo_Cartel]

IMHO ...after your restoration.... with quality parts and quality restoration the end value in today’s current market is $125K. Restorations usually take 18 months. Hope this helps. I enjoy the hunt for parts , and the entire process. If needed I can help with sources.

[bergy]

"COPO" money is a pretty broad range. The best cars have known ownership history, factory/dealer documents, and expert inspection certifications. Original drivetrain is a huge factor.

Even without factory/dealer documentation, this car could bring decent money (IMO) if the owner is willing to get it inspected/certified, and track down the ownership history. Old photos showing it at the track would be a plus. Get delivering dealer info and also check for 9737 attributes.

[GotGrunt]

"COPO" money is a pretty broad range. The best cars have known ownership history, factory/dealer documents, and expert inspection certifications. Original drivetrain is a huge factor.

Even without factory/dealer documentation, this car could bring decent money (IMO) if the owner is willing to get it inspected/certified, and track down the ownership history. Old photos showing it at the track would be a plus. Get delivering dealer info and also check for 9737 attributes.

The reason I ask is because if this was a 1970 Chevelle ex-race car in similar condition with a CRW rear in it, a single fuel line, big block steering shaft, and ZL2 firewall piercing but was missing the original motor/trans and did not have a build sheet or other documentation, you’d have a hard time selling it as an LS6 down the road. Let’s just say you hit a dead end with the ownership history or tracking down the original block, then what?

I’m not doubting what this car is, just playing devil’s advocate and also want to educate myself on the general consensus in case I come across something like this in the future. Pretty much all the tell tale signs that the car is a COPO could have been added at any point after the car left the factory, and the X44D80 on the trim tag is not limited to COPOs.

Feel free to correct me if I’m off base here...

[Steve Shauger]

The reason I ask is because if this was a 1970 Chevelle ex-race car in similar condition with a CRW rear in it, a single fuel line, big block steering shaft, and ZL2 firewall piercing but was missing the original motor/trans and did not have a build sheet or other documentation, you’d have a hard time selling it as an LS6 down the road. Let’s just say you hit a dead end with the ownership history or tracking down the original block, then what?

I’m not doubting what this car is, just playing devil’s advocate here and also want to educate myself on the general consensus in case I come across something like this in the future. Pretty much all the tell tale signs that the car is a COPO could have been added at any point after the car left the factory, and from what I’ve read, the X44D80 on the trim tag is not limited to COPO cars.


The original poster summed up the identifying points in first post; rear, piercings. throttle arm, dual exhaust plate, ...etc


Next helpful hint is if dealer was a know sell COPO's.

[Copo_Cartel]

First of all....compare the 07A trim tag /body # to other known 07A cars as well as vin #’s. There are so many tell tale signs ...and if you know your way around a 69 Camaro and are mechanic savvy then you will know if it’s been monkeyed with. Hard to fool the old wrench guys.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

interesting. NE Philly is my neighborhood. What part of Philly?

Sitting right off Keystone Street in Tacony section of Philly.

[GotGrunt]

The original poster summed up the identifying points in first post; rear, piercings. throttle arm, dual exhaust plate, ...etc


Next helpful hint is if dealer was a know sell COPO's.

First of all....compare the 07A trim tag /body # to other known 07A cars as well as vin #’s. There are so many tell tale signs ...and if you know your way around a 69 Camaro and are mechanic savvy then you will know if it’s been monkeyed with. Hard to fool the old wrench guys.

I know, but my question was if the tell tale signs are enough to prove the pedigree. I guess they are?

[Tracker1]

Just re-iterating what Copo Cartel has already said, it's the undisturbed combo of things on this car that make it obvious...so obvious I do not know how any self-respecting Philly Camaro guy didn't spot the signs.

Cowl induction wiring holes in firewalls, BE rearends and D80 trim tags are certainly to be questioned on a restored car sitting in the line-up in a tent at Barrett-Jackson. A used up race car on a side street in Philadelphia? Nobody's adding such things to it - they've been there from the beginning. In the absence of documentation, that's how you tell. The BJ car you walk away from, this car you pay for it, hook it up to the trailer get it the heck home.

Not to overstate the obvious, but MacNeish (or equivalent) has to look at this car NOW for certification. If the new owner waits until it is restored bright and shiny they are too, too late because of what you've already said Grunt - anybody could've put it all there.

[Copo_Cartel]

With the photos provided...based on this particular car...I would say it is a used up COPO race car. And I am sure you will document the 2 hidden vins. Now ...get your VISUAL certification prior to turning a wrench. Btw...well said Tracker1

[Jonesy]

X44D80 tag is a real good indicator combined with the accelerator cowl bracket and BE rear make this one pretty easy to detect.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Thanks guys, there'a already a phone call into MacNeish (waiting on a return call) and the NCRS is sent. Just trying to track down some history and photos now.

[Copo_Cartel]

Marilyn is great at the NCRS... generally I pay the $90 and get it back the same day worst case scenario she calls me the very next day but it is always less than 24 hours . If you pay the lesser amount she always has it to you within a week

[R68GTO]

Thanks guys, there'a already a phone call into MacNeish (waiting on a return call) and the NCRS is sent. Just trying to track down some history and photos now.

Good luck Matt - great find there! I just went through this process 10 months ago. Good advice on this site helped me through it - it really was a lot of fun tracking down each owner. The people side of it has been, and will likely continue to be the best part - the rest is just parts......very cool parts, but just parts nonetheless!

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Looks like NCRS didn't have the dealer name listed.

[yellow69RSZ]

Very cool, congrats!!!

[dykstra]

Way cool!!

[Nasblu]

Looks like NCRS didn't have the dealer name listed.

Zone #41 Dealer# 82 is Branine Chevrolet in Kansas.

[scuncio]

Branine was in Mulvane, KS and was a Yenko/performance dealer.

[Tracker1]

Cliff Gottlob's 67 L88 Convertible

[Tracker1]

Kevin Suydam's Dick Harrell '68 427 Conversion

[Tracker1]

YS-8023 and YS- 8019

[Tracker1]

Kevin Suydam's Deuce

[Tracker1]

So yeah, to put it mildly, a performance-oriented dealership - your car kept good company.

They were at :

1014 North 2nd Avenue
Mulvane, Kansas
67110

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

That's awesome!! Wonder how it got from Kansas to Philly??

[fsc66]

See attached ad from 1960:

[Copo_Cartel]

That's awesome!! Wonder how it got from Kansas to Philly??

One dragstrip at a time Marlin...Lol. That is a long journey but it is a race car. That’s great news . Congrats on the selling dealer.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

....or a military guy.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Being confirmed as shipped to Branine, obviously this wasn't a Yenko car (unless they were doing the Jack Douglass thing) but is it know if Branine did deliver any '69 Yenko Camaros and/or Chevelles?:hmmm:
This HAMB link has a few names of guys from Branine that may be worth seeking out in case they remember the car...
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/members/buzrod.89836/
Also, here's an 03/18 Mecum link w/ a Branine delivered LS6...
https://www.mecum.com/lots/KM0318-323815/1970-chevrolet-chevelle-ls6/

:beers:
~ Pete


.

[Edgemontvillage]

Cool find, it does reinforce they're still out there!

[6667ss138]

Mulvane is my old home town. I know many of the old drag racers in the area. I will ask around. Yes, Branine sold many hi performance cars including Yenko cars back in the day if I remember correctly. I've got a drag racing buddy that has lived there his whole life that will definitely know, I will ask him. Don't forget, last I checked Kansas DMV still offers complete title history back to original selling dealer including a copy of the MSO. Good luck!!

[EZ Nova]

I'm glad it was found and being saved. But one must look at what there going to do with it and what's it really worth?

The "Tin Soldier" '69 COPO with a lot of born with and known and documented history was for say for $92,000 back a couple tears ago. So this car without documentation and the born with would be what, say $90,000 in today's market. Maybe restore it over say 5/7 years and enjoy it while doing a bit here and there. Or restore it to it's racing history sort like the Soldier.

[William]

Restoring it will destroy what remains of the originality. Clean up the hack workmanship [like the fuel line...] and enjoy as is.

[DW31S]

Great find! Nobody likes old race cars than me so I say get it up on it’s feet and go burn some rubber! I just was sent a real clear vintage picture of my Camaro at E-Town in 1969 that I had not yet seen.....so I know all about the excitement of a hidden gem!

[camarojoe]

People worry too much about "what's it worth"... It's a real car and a brand new find...Someone found a COPO, sitting in plain site.. that's awesome. It's not always about how much you can re-sell it for.

[Tracker1]

i just hooked up with Don Branine Jr. on facebook - his Dad ordered in a LeMans Blue 69 COPO TO RACE in AHRA .... called it Killer Camaro...he's going to look through his Dads pictures and he is pretty sure they exist. His Dad is in assissted living now. Cool if same car.

[MosportGreen66]

I’m with Joe and Matt on this one. I don’t like the undertones of this thread at all.

Cliff notes - forget about value, restoration, cost of either. Not your problem and not the purpose of the thread. Second - who cares about someone on the internet offering money for a car that’s not for sale? Move on... Matt shared his friend’s find. We are privileged to see hard evidence in photos in as-found condition! If this thing wound up in the hands of a protouring guy we’d all cry bloody murder.

Matt, congrats again. Please continue to share pics. This is turning out to be one heck of a find with a story at the cusp of evolving.

Dan

[6667ss138]

Branine's advertising slogan used to be "cars like eggs are cheaper in the country"
I talked to my buddy today and he said yes, Branine definitely sold Yenko/COPO cars back in the day. I was almost positive they did.

[Steve Shauger]

I am appreciative that Matt posted this COPO on the site. There were too many tell tale signs to deny that this was a COPO, and I'm alway skeptical!!!. Love the color and would like to learn more about its racing history. To me it's like hitting the lottery and a amazing find. A big congratulations to the new owner!!!!:beers:

[scuncio]

Me too, textbook signs for anyone who has chased these cars for years.

[nugeusa1]

ive had 4 copo and three of the four still had 427 in the fender extentions written upside down, you might check that out. congrats, you found a treasure!!!

[GrumpyJeff]

People worry too much about "what's it worth"... It's a real car and a brand new find...Someone found a COPO, sitting in plain site.. that's awesome. It's not always about how much you can re-sell it for.

I've always thought they are way more fun, when you don't think about what or how much they could be worth

[EZ Nova]

Guys I wasn't knocking the car and not saying it shouldn't have been saved. It was directed buy the "for sale for $50,000 post for this.


That's all.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

First photo received today.

[72-SS-L48]

Awesome Matt!

[Fast67VelleN2O]

So before it was like this, it was called Vitale's Toy. If anyone comes across a photo of a car that says that, please let me know.

[DW31S]

Matt, there are a couple vintage Camaro race car groups on FB you might try. An excellent, never-before-seen vintage photo of my Camaro just showed up over the weekend. I’ll take a look when I get a chance. There are lots of vintage race car photos out there.....I look in the backgrounds of the photos as you never know what might be there.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Matt, there are a couple vintage Camaro race car groups on FB you might try. An excellent, never-before-seen vintage photo of my Camaro just showed up over the weekend. I’ll take a look when I get a chance. There are lots of vintage race car photos out there.....I look in the backgrounds of the photos as you never know what might be there.

I belong to the Vintage Camaro drag photo group and looked for about an hour last night and only made it to the beginning of November. Great group. I saw the photo that you posted there.

[Rumbleguts396]

This is a very exciting thread. Big Thanks to Matt for taking us along for the ride. I feel like I’m watching this amazing car tell it’s story/history in real time. Happy New Year to all !!
Rob

[ZiggyL78]

That's awesome!! Wonder how it got from Kansas to Philly??

Trailer? ;)

[69VN]

Wow I seen this car in exactly the same condition as when your friend bought it! Back in the summer I had seen that it was parked under a car port less than 2 blocks from the place where it had the for sale sign on it and wondered if the person owning it would ever think of selling it. Well it turns out I never took the opportunity to go and knock on that door. Was just hoping I'd catch him some day in front of the house and maybe ask if I could see it up close. I noticed at the time that it had a shabby red paint job, wheel tubs and a crazy racing hood but seriously didn't think much more. Sometimes you never know. A tremendous find right in my neck of the woods! Congrats!

Sal

[Stihl]

Matt, congrats. Deep down everyone would love to score a COPO that had been lost to history yet was out in public view every day. Are you going to restore it as a factory car or in race trim?

[Dayton]

Wonder how it got from Kansas to Philly?? 1/4 mile at a time

[luv2sixty9]

I heard rumors that the born with engine / trans were going to be reunited with the car and that the original owner still had same sitting around. That would be so cool!!

[69LM1]

Wow! Now that's a cool story!
/Rich

[Fast67VelleN2O]

Just a quick update. Jerry certified the car this past week.

[BirdBrain]

I passively read the COPO boards here. I'm a firebird guy so please excuse my ignorance, LOL.

I believe I may have spotted a COPO with a vin not in the registry. Are there known 69 COPO's from the missing Yenko list? I didn't want to go on a documentation goose chase so I've not pursued the car or the motor (they have two different owners).

I ran the NCRS and the car was sold from Joseph Chev in Cincinnati. Vin ends with N639XXX, a guy named Howard sold the motor on eBay 10 years ago...

[iluv69s]

I passively read the COPO boards here. I'm a firebird guy so please excuse my ignorance, LOL.

I believe I may have spotted a COPO with a vin not in the registry. Are there known 69 COPO's from the missing Yenko list? I didn't want to go on a documentation goose chase so I've not pursued the car or the motor (they have two different owners).

I ran the NCRS and the car was sold from Joseph Chev in Cincinnati. Vin ends with N639XXX, a guy named Howard sold the motor on eBay 10 years ago...

Experts can correct me if I am wrong. The yenko list is different than the COPO list. The Yenko list was made from original log books from Yenko Chevrolet. The list is probably 98% as the log books were hand written and a few errors, etc have been noted.
The COPO list is a list of cars that have been located and information submitted about these cars. Apparently there were somewhere around 1000 COPOs built but, there is no all inclusive list of COPO cars. Probably most, but atleast hundreds are unknown and there is no list that has them all.
The best thing to do is gather info and take pics and post here. The experts will tell you if it is real. Do you believe it is a Yenko or only a COPO ? The Yenkos were COPOs in 1969 that certain options were added to by Yenko Chev.
But keep quiet of car’s location because there are also some unscrupulous buyers out there.