This should make you all Angry!

[RST]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-72-OLDSMOBILE-CUTLASS-442-W30-NEW-NOS-FACTORY-BUILD-SHEET-LINE-CARD-RARE/322876700637?epid=5009280101&hash=item4b2cf377dd:g:EjMAAOSwKJ9bRj3n:rk:23:pf:0

This should be against the law ……….. it creates opportunity for unscrupulous people to create forgeries adding to doubt for the real documentation that is out there. This is why its so important to have accurate ownership history, with additional documentation as well as original owner info and affidavit if possible.

[Mr70]

Ha!...look who the seller is.

[Niblet]

Whats wrong with this seller? is he not a good one?

[Copo_Cartel]

232 sold so far. That means those people wanted to create their own documents. B/S

[Mr70]

Niblet,it's The Parts Place.

[Niblet]

Niblet,it's The Parts Place.




Sorry I'm not sure what that is:hmmm:

[Steve Shauger]

Sorry I'm not sure what that is:hmmm:


You aren't naïve to the point being made? This vendor is providing reproduction GM documents (blank). The only use is for those buying is to attempt to make an Olds something it's not.

[Niblet]

You aren't naïve to the point being made? This vendor is providing reproduction GM documents (blank). The only use is for those buying is to attempt to make an Olds something it's not.

Steve, I understand this,,and I too don't like it, but what is "the Parts Place"?
is this some shady vendor that everyone but me knows about?
I searched and found nothing,,,,:hmmm:

[914JPW]

This parts place in DeKalb? The seller on eBay is listed in Geneva which is a half hour or so away.

https://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/

[Niblet]

https://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/

ahh ok Thanks,,I will stay away from this guy then

[914JPW]

That is actually a good place, that is why I was asking to confirm. They are just a little pricey sometimes.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Do they have the NOS machine to type in the codes for sale too?

BS! (But these have been for sale for years, lots of “W” machines on the market)

I have been told these sheets are identifiable but I haven’t been let in on the secret or I have forgotten....

Ryan W31

PS: my W Machine doesn’t have one of these yet...... I hope to find an original when I take the interior apart.

[x77-69z28]

The ad I am looking at says joparts as the seller. Is he one and the same as The Parts Place?
Buddy

[Rixls6]

The ad I am looking at says joparts as the seller. Is he one and the same as The Parts Place?
Buddy

Yes

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

My take on all the reproduction like docs that are widely available and offered by vendors and individuals. Window Stickers included., is simple. If it's purely for SHOW or NOSTALGIA purposes., than man up and have them look as authentic as can be, but stamp them "REPRODUCTION" but that won't ever happen because although there may be a few people who just want these things to DISPLAY at a car show., most are using them to fake and manipulate future naive buyers to thinking the car is more than it is.

Buyer Beware in every aspect of buying.

[WILMASBOYL78]

that kind of looks like the same design as Chevrolet versions...is it printed on a heavier stock?

[Burd]

It takes more that a pic of paper to fake a car. Lol do your homework.

[Diamond_Don]

Do they have the NOS machine to type in the codes for sale too?

BS! (But these have been for sale for years, lots of “W” machines on the market)

I have been told these sheets are identifiable but I haven’t been let in on the secret or I have forgotten....

Ryan W31

PS: my W Machine doesn’t have one of these yet...... I hope to find an original when I take the interior apart.

A real assembly line example should have a date on the side... as shown ??? The vertical orientation of this font may be more difficult to duplicate. Not sure.

[L78steve]

I learned something today. Did't realize they are one in the same.

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

For every person on this site who MIGHT know how to identify a REAL piece of authentic documentation. Build sheet. POP. Invoices. Window Stickers. There's thousands out there who have no clue!! So yes, do your homework but just as important., the word has to spread for people to do that homework. I often have guys who will say, I won't buy a car without documentation!!! Rah Rah Rah. ... even if it's numbers matching.... and they seem to lose the concept that EVERYTHING is Faked now days!! Aged Paperwork too. So, personally I stress, that authenticity of a car takes into consideration a whole bunch more than just verifying a stamping is original or that the car has documentation. It's not enough to just accept it as legit, you have to verify all of it and know the source of the verification is a leader in the hobby, not just BIG BLOCK RALPH who replies " looks good to me" I have guys that seem to do more homework on the new Flat Screen TV they are buying than the Much more expensive collector car.

Ok. Back to your regularly scheduled programming:)

[Damien]

Perhaps they have multiple accounts? I have bought off them in very recent history and they have a different user name to the one quoted here and have almost 200,000 in feedback, so it's not a recent thing.

[Pusher_Man]

For every person on this site who MIGHT know how to identify a REAL piece of authentic documentation. Build sheet. POP. Invoices. Window Stickers. There's thousands out there who have no clue!! So yes, do your homework but just as important., the word has to spread for people to do that homework. I often have guys who will say, I won't buy a car without documentation!!! Rah Rah Rah. ... even if it's numbers matching.... and they seem to lose the concept that EVERYTHING is Faked now days!! Aged Paperwork too. So, personally I stress, that authenticity of a car takes into consideration a whole bunch more than just verifying a stamping is original or that the car has documentation. It's not enough to just accept it as legit, you have to verify all of it and know the source of the verification is a leader in the hobby, not just BIG BLOCK RALPH who replies " looks good to me" I have guys that seem to do more homework on the new Flat Screen TV they are buying than the Much more expensive collector car.

Ok. Back to your regularly scheduled programming:)

Mike, you’re exactly right. When new guys like me (a few years ago) come into the hobby, there’s a lack of knowledge about who you can rely on, trust, etc. I got messed over bad by a self proclaimed Shelby “expert” and later had the inner Shelby circle day that I should have just had this guy or that guy do the inspection for me...yeah, well that’s easy to say when you actually KNOW all that!

[Burd]

We shouldn’t be building fake cars, tributes, recreations, clones, fakes. Now the tv shows are building them. It’s not the papers we need to get upset about, it’s the cars.

[RST]

We shouldn’t be building fake cars, tributes, recreations, clones, fakes. Now the tv shows are building them. It’s not the papers we need to get upset about, it’s the cars.

While I understand how you feel …. This may be taking it a bit far. Some people can’t afford an original car and a tribute or clone is what they can and still be able to enjoy the look of the car then always wanted …. Like a GT 350 Mustang etc. I think tribute cars and or clones …. Although I don’t care for them, honor the original cars and if someone is not intentionally trying to “Fake” a car for profit, etc, its fine to me.

[SS427]

Good point. A tribute car is one thing and sometimes neat to see when you might seldom otherwise get to see a real one. However, a car that uses tons of NOS parts, restamped drivetrain and reproduction paperwork (and not advertised or labeled as such) and disguised to look like the real thing is a whole other game. I do lots of inspections around the country every year on LS6's and really hate when I spend a clients money only to have call the seller on the table regarding his "tribute LS6" that he forgot to mention. They are all very good at playing dumb.

[Burd]

so if you can’t afford it make a fake one. Hmmm. Doesn’t sound rite.
Here’s the prob. I know a guy who made a 25th Anniversary fake TA. He sold it as a fake, but the new owner knows it’s a fake but isn’t saying that in his add, he’s selling it now. I walk by fake cars at the shows. A lot don’t know the Cobra kit is a fake, they stand and look at it likes it’s amazing. A doosh on Woodward had authentic plates on a Fauxbra, ( cobra kit car) I asked if it was real, his wife said feels real.

[RST]

Good point. A tribute car is one thing and sometimes neat to see when you might seldom otherwise get to see a real one. However, a car that uses tons of NOS parts, restamped drivetrain and reproduction paperwork (and not advertised or labeled as such) and disguised to look like the real thing is a whole other game. I do lots of inspections around the country every year on LS6's and really hate when I spend a clients money only to have call the seller on the table regarding his "tribute LS6" that he forgot to mention. They are all very good at playing dumb.


Totally agree 100%

[1971ls6]

I built mine for pure Stock and a ZL1 is the second best choice to be in the front of the pack.

Plus I can beat it to death and not worry about it. I have a window sticker and a time slip at the cruises, people love to see how expensive they were.

I feel if you are going to make a cloan, it needs to be correct down to the details, the orange plug wires, the TI box in the front header panel, just to name a few, this comes from my days in the Ncrs world. Correct bolts also make a difference, but the most important thing is to put the dam cowl seal on correctly and no caution sticker

[Burd]

At least with Pontiac you can phs a car for a high price, lol. Others you can’t find and paper trail on.
I recently saw a 77 T\A with Fisher T tops an a consignment place. I asked the owner if it was a PT car lol. He said why? I said, in 1978 fisher t tops finally came out, not 77. The owner failed to list it was a re- roof. Lmao
I worked with a goof that did a resto on a 65 Nova. He didn’t know it wasnt a factory rag top till 1/2 way through. He was ordering the seat covers, we just found the correct seats at the fairground swap, the guy at year one said they didn’t make a rag top in 65. :wink: lucky for him they did make a rag top earlier. But he had to finish the cloning butchery or whatever you call it, the recreation, Lol
People don’t tell, that’s the prob. It’s not the $20 pc of no’s lit that fakes it, it’s the fake car.

[Astock]

PHS is a deal. I would pay twice the price.

[kwhizz]

Look at the Black L-89 70 Nova...….. Enough said !!!!! Tribute cars are one thing.....Purpose built fake real cars are another...… That's why this site is so Important to protect the Pedigree of the "Real" cars !!!

[Burd]

It’s getting high. I did my car when it was $35.

[Steve Shauger]

Look at the Black L-89 70 Nova...….. Enough said !!!!! Tribute cars are one thing.....Purpose built fake real cars are another...… That's why this site is so Important to protect the Pedigree of the "Real" cars !!!


Absolutely Ken. What started this thread was the fact a company that sells reproduction parts would also sell documentation(yes blank) which could be used by those purchasing to make something into something its not. I prefer to do business with a company that chooses not to sell such items.


All reproduction documentation should have a watermark designating it as such....problem solved!


When clones are made to exacting degree to include restamping of components and reproduction documentation the line has been crossed.


I've seen too many cars morph into something they're not. We even had one enter our Vintage Certification in 2002 or so. It was represented as a 69 Camaro L89 convertible. The car had under 10K actual original miles, however it started life as a 327- 210hp powerglide car. The person who had the car cloned sold it as a clone, and made the purchaser sign a document acknowledging it was a clone. Well a few owners down the line it was sold as real. When a subsequent owner applied for Vintage Certification I did research as I do for all cars entering and uncovered information. I notified the owner but he came to the event with the car and tried to have it certified anyway and his entry was rejected. Beautiful car just wasn't as represented. It was discussed on this site and several others so the word got out.

[SS427]

What started this thread was the fact a company that sells reproduction parts would also sell documentation(yes blank) which could be used by those purchasing to make something into something its not. I prefer to do business with a company that chooses not to sell such items.

Like so many other hobbies, this one has become one that is all about money and making the most of it by what ever means possible even if that means creating something that never was and taking advantage of the unsuspecting. In one word, greed!

So many people sell cars that never were, parts that are restamped or reproduction and sold as NOS using original boxes, bullsh!t stories behind cars to hype them up so as to make more money, etc, etc. I have tried very hard to not fall into that trap and still look at it as a hobby and one to be enjoyed but it is really tough some days. The inspections I do are just one area that I constantly see fraud taking place and many of these people think nothing of it.

This is just one of the reasons why clones are never allowed in this shop. I do not want to be associated with them in any way. If our name ever came up with one it would black list us so we just stay away from them.

Same goes for paperwork or cowl tags. If you want to create paperwork or tags "for show purposes only" then mark it as such or keep a registry with VIN's that have them. If you have nothing to hide than don't try hiding it.

[kwhizz]

Like so many other hobbies, this one has become one that is all about money and making the most of it by what ever means possible even if that means creating something that never was and taking advantage of the unsuspecting. In one word, greed!

So many people sell cars that never were, parts that are restamped or reproduction and sold as NOS using original boxes, bullsh!t stories behind cars to hype them up so as to make more money, etc, etc. I have tried very hard to not fall into that trap and still look at it as a hobby and one to be enjoyed but it is really tough some days. The inspections I do are just one area that I constantly see fraud taking place and many of these people think nothing of it.

This is just one of the reasons why clones are never allowed in this shop. I do not want to be associated with them in any way. If our name ever came up with one it would black list us so we just stay away from them.

Same goes for paperwork or cowl tags. If you want to create paperwork or tags "for show purposes only" then mark it as such or keep a registry with VIN's that have them. If you have nothing to hide than don't try hiding it.


Rick = A businessman with strict ethical standards.... 👍

[PeteLeathersac]

Rick = A businessman with strict ethical standards.... 👍


Another largely shrinking minority, especially in the car world also much more uncommon now than most truly rare cars themselves.
Rick Rocks!:headbang:
:beers:
~ Pete


.

[John Brown]

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.