Huebner Chevrolet #69 ZL1 Before and After

[whitetop]

The guy who restored the Huebner Chevrolet Last Zl1 built has been posting on FB. Very interesting.
Car was totaled in the early 80's and sat until 2003 when Randy restored it. Car is not completed yet and has not been yet seen in public. The only piece of outside sheetmetal saved was the drivers side door.

Randy has posted hundreds of pics on FB.Complete ownership history, etc

The cobweb stripes was painted on by famed painter Greg of Akron

[whitetop]

Pics

[whitetop]

More pics

[whitetop]

more pics

[William]

That makes 49 known to exist. Too bad the M22 trans was sold out of it years ago.

Car was built with 14 x 7 rally wheels. No idea why it is shown with XTs.

FB link?

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

I have been watching this closely, he even posted a detailed list of previous owners with phone numbers and home addresses..... yikes, even I don’t share that much!!

Ryan W31

[HawkX66]

The guy who restored the Huebner Chevrolet Last Zl1 built has been posting on FB. Very interesting.
Car was totaled in the early 80's and sat until 2003 when Randy restored it. Car is not completed yet and has not been yet seen in public. The only piece of outside sheetmetal saved was the drivers side door.

Randy has posted hundreds of pics on FB.Complete ownership history, etc

The cobweb stripes was painted on by famed painter Greg of Akron
What a shame. That was quite a hit. Re-bodied ZL1 isn't a ZL1 anymore IMO though. It's a new Camaro with a transplanted ZL1 drive train assuming that was saved and installed. Age old argument I know...
Either way, it's going to be beautiful for what it is when completed.

[whitetop]

more pics back in the day

[whitetop]

That makes 49 known to exist. Too bad the M22 trans was sold out of it years ago.

Car was built with rally wheels. No idea why it is shown with XTs.

FB link?

Randy found the original trans. Said the current owner stopped talking to him after he posted all the pics. Guess he did not want people to see the before pics

[William]

That it was wadded up was the worst kept secret in the hobby. Several people saw it-one of them bought the trans. I have a letter from a previous owner describing the damage.

[whitetop]

I have a FB page covering the history of cars in my area which includes Huebner Chevrolet.

Randy has 3 or so threads about the car on my page. Lot of Hipo cars in my area came from Huebner

He also posted it on 70's muscle cars and street machines page on FB

https://www.facebook.com/groups/WheelingCarCultureScene/

[HawkX66]

Do I see Z28 emblems in a few of the original pics?

[whitetop]

Do I see Z28 emblems in a few of the original pics?


Yes, Randy stalled them for the 2nd or third owner in 1979

[muscle_collector]

I love the huge meats on the back of it and the white big block beside it. that's the way I had my trans am setup back in the 70's. what I wouldn't give to go back and relive those days.

[GMC_Typhoon]

I don't see how fixing a mangled wreck is a rebody, unless they used a different body. Shit gets wrecked, it gets fixed.

[Igosplut]

Since the car was mostly destroyed, and the rebuild is common knowledge, I don't see the problem. It is what it is.

[GMC_Typhoon]

Did they fix the existing body? If so it's just a rebuilt wreck. Not a Vin swap.

[1967 4K]

It’s not a rebody, it’s just a repaired wreck vehicle.

[Igosplut]

It's a matter of opinion how much of a original body used makes it one or the other. The car was clearly mostly unusable, so do you try to make something out of it, or call it gone?

[Igosplut]

Swapping VIN/Trim tag, and firewall does not a car make. But in the case of wrecked body's, the fact it was public knowledge, I don't see the problem.

[Crush]

So how did car get so smashed? Was anyone killed?

[whitetop]

So how did car get so smashed? Was anyone killed?

Owner took it out and it got a little wild. No one killed but driver and passenger spent some time in a hospital-2 weeks..no serious injuries.

[Vern B]

Most cars that were raced have floors, inner and outer quarters, trunk, front fenders, door skins, possibly hood, trunk lid and tail panel replaced. That’s just a normal part of a full restoration.

If the firewall, trim and vin tags were moved it’s a rebody, if those things weren’t moved, I’d consider it a repair. Value is truly in the eyes of the beholder in this case.

Sounds like there’s no hiding anything with this car

[Igosplut]

Value or worth is another thing altogether.....

[L72copocamaro]

Not going to please everyone, but at least a piece of history is preserved.

[Charley Lillard]

Still optioned very nicely.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Seems unfair to say much without more facts/details as extra efforts may have been taken repairing the existing structure before new body panels added to specifically not rebody the car?
Are the tags undisturbed or ever removed/reattached?
:hmmm:
~ Pete

.

[HawkX66]

I was basing my comments on this sentence from the first post. " The only piece of outside sheet metal saved was the drivers side door." I took that to mean that was the only piece of the original car saved which apparently was not the case.

[whitetop]

Randy said the firewall/cowl, door jambs, front floor pan etc was unhurt etc and new sheetmetal was added where necessary. Tags/ vin numbers were not removed or spliced in.

I said "OUTSIDE" sheetmetal drivers door was only piece saved/reused. Drivers side door is still bolted to original firewall/cowl door pillar

As other said an extensive repair.

[Charley Lillard]

Can I have it ?

[Sean]

I have seen some pretty bad carcasses resurrected compared to this one. What is really the difference is it was rusted out and several panels were replaced? NOTHING. What can you expect from a car that is 50 years old? Can I have it?

[HawkX66]

Randy said the firewall/cowl, door jambs, front floor pan etc was unhurt etc and new sheetmetal was added where necessary. Tags/ vin numbers were not removed or spliced in.

I said "OUTSIDE" sheetmetal drivers door was only piece saved/reused. Drivers side door is still bolted to original firewall/cowl door pillar

As other said an extensive repair.
Understood and agree...

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Awesome info and great to hear much more than the cowl was retained also tags never removed an important detail too!
Reusing original complete cowl + rails and structure instead of clipping the car is certainly a more difficult repair w/ a rollover and kudos to those who took the time also not going the easier/quicker/cheaper way of slipping another body under the tags.
Personal opinion - untouched examples obviously have more value but if above details true & cowl + main structure saved w/ undisturbed tags/stampings, the identity seems intact & car not a rebody also unfair if lumped in w/ examples that are exactly that?
:beers:
~ Pete


.

[PeteLeathersac]

'
:beers:
.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Subject w/ Z-stripes or another Huebner car?
:hmmm:
~ Pete

.

[Dave Rifkin]

'

Subject w/ Z-stripes or another Huebner car?
:hmmm:
~ Pete

.

My guess is that's a different car; notice the Z/28 emblems in the grille and on the fender.

[olredalert]

----As well as the hood!...….Bill S

[69z2x4]

69 Z28 with 302 motor was a nhra F/Stock..

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Good info and expected it was another Huebner car but thought the pic may as well be here anyway.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[camarojoe]

Cool Huebner piece I recently found.

[SS427]

An awesome photo of the #69 ZL1 Camaro posted on FB in the Huebner Chevrolet showroom. Thanks to Randy Doll and Jim Stubbings for posting the photo. Very cool shot.

[FTC]

What a shame. That was quite a hit. Re-bodied ZL1 isn't a ZL1 anymore IMO though. It's a new Camaro with a transplanted ZL1 drive train assuming that was saved and installed. Age old argument I know...
Either way, it's going to be beautiful for what it is when completed.

As already mentioned in this thread, the VIN tag and partial VIN panels (firewall and cowl), along with front floors, hinge pillars, etc....are all original which would, in most people's eyes negate this being "rebody",....but also the way I look at it, a 55 year old car, if still around that may have seen time as a daily driver, weekend cruiser, part time racer, whatever, ..in that time might have been involve in a few accidents between multiple owners, needing a 3/4 nose here, and perhaps a door there,...may have had quarter skins and floors replaced due to rust and rot,.....maybe even roof work if it was a vinyl top car that rotted out.

Replacing all those crunched panels in my eyes is no worse then replacing rotted and dented panels that get replaced in many major restorations.

[66cayne]

An awesome photo of the #69 ZL1 Camaro posted on FB in the Huebner Chevrolet showroom. Thanks to Randy Doll and Jim Stubbings for posting the photo. Very cool shot.

What is going on in that showroom? A 59 Caddy and 69 Camaro. Some sort of anniversary party?

[DW31S]

What is going on in that showroom? A 59 Caddy and 69 Camaro. Some sort of anniversary party?

I don’t know, but I see exactly one person looking at the Camaro…

[SuperNovaSS]

I don’t know, but I see exactly one person looking at the Camaro…

I see two. One looking at the window sticker and one under the hood.

Jason

[169indy]

^ Three you count the guy sitting with the glasses crunching the Numbers to try and afford the monthly payments to GMAC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

I’d love that 65-68 Saab 96 you can see outside, especially if the 2-stroker!
Cool pic Rick, thanks for posting it.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[L72copocamaro]

I don't know about most peoples eyes, but to me; cosmetic replacement is one thing, structural replacement is another. That said, I'd be very happy to own it and enjoy it for whatever it is.

[FTC]

I don’t know, but I see exactly one person looking at the Camaro…
If you look closely, that's because it seems like everyone in that picture behind the Camaro are in line for something,....heading what looks like, out the door or at least toward the door.

[bergy]

A bunch of “car guys”. Donuts are a priority!

[MN 70L78]

Great info/history on the car!
I'm amazed how you guys find these old pictures and newspaper articles.

[396 SS/RS]

Great info/history on the car!
I'm amazed how you guys find these old pictures and newspaper articles. Agree 100%. IMO, as long as the main body structure is original it's still a ZL1.

[JoeC]

this is said to be ZL-1 #69 racing with a 396 in it

[DW31S]

I see two. One looking at the window sticker and one under the hood.

Jason

You are correct sir…I missed the guy looking at the mill…duh! LOL

[iluv69s]

'
:beers:
.

I know this is an old post, but apparently based on this ad, the number of Zl-1’s was well known, even in 1969? This car is the last car and a May car.. Wonder when ad was made and how they knew.

I seem to recall that the number was always believed to be 50 and then Bill P got ahold of or found a second list from Vince P with another 19 VINs. ??? Is my memory incorrect?

[iluv69s]

So I decided to do some research on my own. This is Hooper’s 69 reference book.

So according to the book, in 1981 Vince Piggins and no one else remembered or knew that 69 zL-1’s were actually built.
But based on the ad, Huebner Chevrolet and everyone that read it knew the correct number in 1969? Wonder when the sales ad was made.

Something weird about this story ?

[JoeC]

It was big news in the drag racing community when Chevy built the ZL-1 Camaros for drag racing.

50 cars were required for Super Stock racing so some thought only 50 were built.

The MOPAR racers said that 50 were not built and they protested it.

Vinnce Piggins and others had to collect info to prove the 50 car minimum was met.


I have seen other numbers in the old ads and articles

A lot of what Vinnce Piggins did was done behind the scenes

this guy selling #12 thought it was 52

52 was also used in a 1969 Speed and Supercar article

[William]

Don’t know about weird, but something about that was unknown for many years.

Three years ago I had the privilege of speaking with Jerry Huffman. The family dealership, Huffmans' Chevrolet, was known as a performance dealership despite being located in Farmington IL, population just over 2,000. The location was near a mine that employed many young guys, making good money. They were well-known at Chevrolet Central Office and were one of the few dealerships allocated a Z-16 Chevelle. Jerry stated that their contact at Central Office, Barney Krass, contacted them Spring of 1969. Chevrolet had decided to end the COPO at 69 units and were soliciting dealerships to place additional orders. The dealership placed orders for two cars, Silver [#66] and Orange [#67] both 4-speeds. Sixteen other dealers also placed ZL-1 Camaro orders at that time.

It wasn’t fate that 69 1969 ZL-1 Camaros were built. Huebner Chevrolet also heard the plan.

I always wondered how that was allowed to happen. Huffmans’ Chevrolet was located 60 miles E of Gibb Chevrolet in La Harpe, IL. At the time of Huffman’s orders, there were 37 unsold ZL-1 Camaros in stock at Gibb Chevrolet. I asked Jerry about that. He said they were acquainted with Gibb and aware of his ZL-1 order but assumed the cars had been sold.

#66 & #67 were delivered late in May. #67 sold first, and quickly became a PIA with multiple engine failures requiring warranty repair and eventually a new engine. Sometime later it was traded in at a different dealership, ZL-1 engine missing. Huffman’s’ re-acquired it, installed the engine from #66 and sold it. It was subsequently destroyed in an accident.

#66 received a small-block and was sold. Survives today, in mostly original condition. Incredibly, the original blocks for both cars still exist.

Might sound like a yarn, but there is reason to believe it. There is a 31-day gap in ZL-1 Camaro production. The last Gibb car, #52, was final assembled on or about March 27, 1969. #53 was final assembled on or about April 26, 1969. The body numbers for those cars are much higher of course, but in another odd wrinkle, #51 was built prior to the last Gibb order despite being ordered much later [as was #54]. It was ordered by Brooks Chevrolet for Lamar Walden, possibly one of the few ‘insiders’ at Chevy.

BTW #3 was the first ZL-1 Camaro ordered, body #211785. Legend has it that Berger Chevrolet ordered 2 COPO 9561 Camaros, later changed one order to COPO 9560. Body #211786 is an L72 COPO.

[fsc66]

July 18, 1969

[fsc66]

Oct 11, 1969

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

Here’s a Private Seller Ad from 10/70 w/ the 52 # noted, hope this Drafted lad made it home.:flag:
I had the Ad at hand as I was going to post it over in the current NY thread, anyone know which car this ZL1 likely was?
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[William]

#212 area code is Manhattan NYC.

Only one known to have been in NY is #12, mis-identified as #52. 3 months old?

[Bill Pritchard]

3 months old?

Probably sat at a dealer until mid-1970 when this guy bought it :dunno:

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

21 reported as this mid March ‘69 Newspaper article w/ great last line…Chicago Dealer…:hmmm:
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[iluv69s]

‘

21 reported as this mid March ‘69 Newspaper article w/ great last line…Chicago Dealer…:hmmm:
:beers:
~ Pete

.

21 could have been the running count at that time period in 69.

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

What’s the earliest known date ZL1’s were first seen at any Dealership or elsewhere after leaving the factory?
Sorry if old news but love to hear more on this if anyone w/ details to share.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[Carleen]

Thats the experimental Z/427 for 1970 Zl1

[EZ Nova]

‘

What’s the earliest known date ZL1’s were first seen at any Dealership or elsewhere after leaving the factory?
Sorry if old news but love to hear more on this if anyone w/ details to share.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

Umm, that ROGER DEAN add with the DARK 1969 ZL1 Vette with auto?????

In the corvette ZL1 thread I think it was Larry Cain years ago mentioned seeing a BLUE 1969 ZL1 vette.

So this would add/verify that there was more then the 2/3 Zl1 vettes. They known Yellow and White, plus the orange, NOW A BLUE.

[Carleen]

Thats the Experimental ZL1 Corvette

[William]

‘

What’s the earliest known date ZL1’s were first seen at any Dealership or elsewhere after leaving the factory?
Sorry if old news but love to hear more on this if anyone w/ details to share.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

#1 & #2 were delivered to Gibb Chevrolet December 31, 1968. By the end of March, all 50 had been received. Shortly afterwards, Gibb received a GMAC invoice for $289,000.

[Formula455SD]

Wheels resemble what GM offered on the '79 Camaro Berlinetta.


270765

[JoeC]

The Yellow Z-427 was Bill Mitchell's personal car and also used as a show car

custom built but Chevy with a Zl-1 engine

[Mr70]

Where did Fred Gibb store all 50 ZL-1 camaros at?

[mssl72]

Why does the picture that has the word "April" on it say 1967 Chevy Camaro Z-427?

[Kurt S]

It was used in a calendar.

[Kurt S]

The Yellow Z-427 was Bill Mitchell's personal car and also used as a show car

custom built but Chevy with a Zl-1 engine
Note that it had a normal license plate on it, not a M-plate.

[William]

Where did Fred Gibb store all 50 ZL-1 camaros at?

Great question!

This is from an interview [MCR Aug 2011] with Bob Lionberger, the Gibbs’ son in law and dealership employee.

“With more than 40 ZL-1s on hand, theft was a problem. In April 1969 we had our first incident. All of the ZL-1s were stored outside at the west end of the building. I’m not sure what the exact number was, but I think we had six or seven carburetors stolen off the cars as well as parts stolen out of the building. That was when Fred decided we needed a fence. It was about 10 feet high with angled barbed wire posts at the top and had a huge gate in the front. However, until the fence was completed, we had to park all 40 cars inside the shop every night and pull them back out in the morning.”

[iluv69s]

‘

What’s the earliest known date ZL1’s were first seen at any Dealership or elsewhere after leaving the factory?
Sorry if old news but love to hear more on this if anyone w/ details to share.
:beers:
~ Pete

.


It’s pretty wild that the number of ZL-1s was well known in mid March, prior to end of their production… and then seems the number was lost or forgotten historically and believed to be 50 for years.

And the fact that they were shopping the 37 returned Gibb cars and taking orders for other cars makes me wonder how did they decided on exactly 69 total? I always assumed that is how many ended up being ordered. But obviously, based on the old ads and William’s great info and insight, there was a cap on production at 69.

Cool that one dealer had a ZL-1 Camaro and vette.

Thanks all and SYC..always great info. here!

[Pro Stock John]

iluv there is a list of vins.

[lycan]

Great question!

This is from an interview [MCR Aug 2011] with Bob Lionberger, the Gibbs’ son in law and dealership employee.

“With more than 40 ZL-1s on hand, theft was a problem. In April 1969 we had our first incident. All of the ZL-1s were stored outside at the west end of the building. I’m not sure what the exact number was, but I think we had six or seven carburetors stolen off the cars as well as parts stolen out of the building. That was when Fred decided we needed a fence. It was about 10 feet high with angled barbed wire posts at the top and had a huge gate in the front. However, until the fence was completed, we had to park all 40 cars inside the shop every night and pull them back out in the morning.”


... this must have taken some time! As we know, the ZL-1s were (are) notoriously hard to "start".

[JoeC]

This could be the fence that was mentioned.

This is a photo of ZL-1 #1 in about 1971 when it was run by Fred and Jim Hayter

The back lot of Gibb Chevrolet

[JoeC]

This is the ZL-1 powered Corvette show car

The Z-427 and the Corvette were built with a lot of custom details

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

Great updates also pics!
To confirm, are you guys saying the Z-427 also Experimental ‘Vette in the 03/69 Roger Dean Ad both for sure had their Alloy lumps added/neither was a Factory Aluminum Engine car?:hmmm:
Love the ZL1 #1 pics Joe posted above, here’s another great shot of it I had saved, note decal differences + non-painted lower lenses also no front spoiler.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[Carleen]

https://www.motortrend.com/features/1507-1969-aero-coupe-show-car-bill-mitchells-play-toy/

[Carleen]

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=17408.0

[lycan]

Umm, that ROGER DEAN add with the DARK 1969 ZL1 Vette with auto?????

In the corvette ZL1 thread I think it was Larry Cain years ago mentioned seeing a BLUE 1969 ZL1 vette.

So this would add/verify that there was more then the 2/3 Zl1 vettes. They known Yellow and White, plus the orange, NOW A BLUE.
GM documents list the exact number of RPO (regular production) 1969 ZL-1 vettes as: 2


The white car has been ruled-out as one of the "2" regular production cars ... it was built too early, before the first/pilot production ZL-1 vette was built.


Of course, this "official number" (2) does not include: mules, prototypes, dealer conversions, or any cars converted or "hand built" (after production) with OTC ZL-1 engines.

[JoeC]

one article states the "1969 Aero Coupe" was originally a 1968 small block Corvette. It was custom built by Chevy Eng with a Zl-1 engine with L-88 hood and 427 emblems, and a lot of other mods.

In 1970 it was rebuilt and renamed the "1970 Scirocco" It had a flat hood and "ZL-1" emblem or decal on the fender. It is said to be 454 cu in aluminum engine with a prototype Rochester Fuel Injection system.

In 1974. was rebuilt and renamed again as the "1974 Mulsanne" was used as a show car and Can Am pace car.

[JoeC]

https://carstyling.ru/en/car/1974_chevrolet_mulsanne_showcar/

[EZ Nova]

GM documents list the exact number of RPO (regular production) 1969 ZL-1 vettes as: 2


The white car has been ruled-out as one of the "2" regular production cars ... it was built too early, before the first/pilot production ZL-1 vette was built.


Of course, this "official number" (2) does not include: mules, prototypes, dealer conversions, or any cars converted or "hand built" (after production) with OTC ZL-1 engines.

Ok, do you have colors of these "official" ZL1's? We all agree on Roger's Yellow being legit, but your saying the EX Kevin Saydum WHITE is a fake?

http://corvettes-musclecars.com/gallery2/v/al_corvette/1969+Corvette+ZL-1+427-430HP/

And what about the orange GULF/ John Mayer/ YENKO involved convert??

[lycan]

Ok, do you have colors of these "official" ZL1's? We all agree on Roger's Yellow being legit, but your saying the EX Kevin Saydum WHITE is a fake?

http://corvettes-musclecars.com/gallery2/v/al_corvette/1969+Corvette+ZL-1+427-430HP/

And what about the orange GULF/ John Mayer/ YENKO involved convert??
The yellow & orange cars are, far and away, the two most likely candidates for the 2 RPO (regular production) 1969 ZL-1 corvettes.


Unfortunately, no known Chevrolet documents list the VIN numbers of the 2 RPO cars.

[olredalert]

This could be the fence that was mentioned.

This is a photo of ZL-1 #1 in about 1971 when it was run by Fred and Jim Hayter

The back lot of Gibb Chevrolet

----I can understand the theft problems with that corn field right behind the lot. Thieves probably came thru the corn field and had a "field day"....Bill S

[1903USMCUnertl]

The yellow & orange cars are, far and away, the two most likely candidates for the 2 RPO (regular production) 1969 ZL-1 corvettes.


Unfortunately, no known Chevrolet documents list the VIN numbers of the 2 RPO cars.



When the orange car was being auctioned there were quite a few discussions on the various Corvette forums....Lots of really fascinating reading on the ZL1 program!

The yellow car is really the only car I believe is beyond question at this time.

Sadly the building it was retail delivered from (Hechler) was recently torn down to make way for a car wash. At one point back in early 2000's there was some discussion about having the yellow car brought up and displayed at then Patrick Chevrolet (Hechler building) but unfortunately nothing became of it.

Little known Chevy trivia....Hechler is the only dealer to have had both types of 1969 ZL1 cars.

[lycan]

When the orange car was being auctioned there were quite a few discussions on the various Corvette forums....Lots of really fascinating reading on the ZL1 program!

The yellow car is really the only car I believe is beyond question at this time.

Sadly the building it was retail delivered from (Hechler) was recently torn down to make way for a car wash. At one point back in early 2000's there was some discussion about having the yellow car brought up and displayed at then Patrick Chevrolet (Hechler building) but unfortunately nothing became of it.

Little known Chevy trivia....Hechler is the only dealer to have had both types of 1969 ZL1 cars.
For a very long time, i've found it funny (ironic? or sad?) that we know the VINs of the 69 Camaro ZL-1 COPO cars (thanks to the efforts of my friends Bill Porterfield and Bill Glowacki, also Fred Gibb, Vince Piggins, and many others) ... but we still don't know the VINs of the 2 Corvette ZL-1 RPO cars! (with any real certainty)

[mssl72]

It was used in a calendar.

That much I figured. I'm wondering why it was calling a clearly 1969 Camaro, a 1967 Camaro?

[Keith Seymore]

Note that it had a normal license plate on it, not a M-plate.

That tells me it has a normal (saleable) VIN.

Cars with an experimental VIN (or property tag/no VIN) would only be able to use an M plate.

K

[Kurt S]

It tells me something different. :)
Normal plates went on all the lease cars, pool cars, etc. Having a normal plate meant that it wasn't assigned to a department for development, etc. And met crash and emissions. Obviously, they weren't that rigorous with the rules back then.

Depends on the department. All our M-plate cars had normal VIN's. We got production cars and then put prototype parts on them.

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

Back to the total ZL1’s built known/reported circa 69/70, this 08/69 Lafferty Ad below notes 67 cars…close but not bang on like the Huebner Ad.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[Thomas]

The ad states "Camero"...
Too funny...

[JoeC]

I believe this is ZL-1 #23

I have photos of it before it was restored and it had white Z/28 style stripes on it with thin blue lines on the white

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

I expected the Lafferty Ad was #23, were any other ZL1’s known sold there?
These two links are still alive from when Steve S. restored the car…
https://www.69zl1.com/
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=74302
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[JoeC]

Interesting time line dates on #23

In the 1991 letter from Fred Gibb , he states the car was received by Gibb Chevrolet on March 13, 1969 then returned to Chevy on May 24, 1969

Lafferty Ad is dated Aug 1969

The info sheet on the car states Lafferty sold it on Aug. 10, 1970

[JoeC]

Here is something I had in my ZL-1 file on the orange ZL-1 Corvette TH400

unless this tank sticker is fake, it appears to show it was ordered as a ZL-1

[olredalert]

Here is something I had in my ZL-1 file on the orange ZL-1 Corvette TH400

unless this tank sticker is fake, it appears to show it was ordered as a ZL-1

----Well,,,At least to me, that answers the question of weather or not the orange car is a real ZL-1....!....Bill S

[markinnaples]

Is that the tank sticker for the orange ZL-1 with the Gulf Research stickers from around the Pittsburgh area?

[Dusk Blue Z]

Date received is 8/11/22 ???

[JoeC]

Is that the tank sticker for the orange ZL-1 with the Gulf Research stickers from around the Pittsburgh area?


this was the one with the Gulf decals that has since be restored to original

[markinnaples]

Thanks Joe. I saw that car at a few car shows in Pittsburgh when I lived there. Such a cool Corvette and the guy did seem genuine about the provenance of it.

[lycan]

Date received is 8/11/22 ???
November 22, 1968

[JoeC]

the Orange ZL-1 was around for many years with some racing history then was restored and sold for over $3M

In the articles about the cars history, it was said to be certified as a ZL-1

[olredalert]

----One year at Corvette Carlisle the owner had aa room at our hotel and we talked quite a bit. He was a really nice guy and very accomodating to all my questions. I have never thought for a moment that the car wasn't what it was purported to be!....Bill S

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

07/69 Salt Lake City Utah Ad w/ 50 built noted.
Would this be Craig Cazier’s ZL-1 campaigned as ‘Action West’?
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[JoeC]

here is a ZL-1 article where Dick Harrell said 52 cars built

Someone may have told him 52 early on

The 52 number was used in some ads

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

Straying further off track, below is Craig Cazier’s car from Draglist where it notes ‘Real ZL-1 Camaro’.
Anyone know anything of this Salt Lake Utah racer and car, same one as the Capitol Chev Ad above or another also which ZL-1(s) specifically?
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[William]

Do not know which one it is. If I had to guess, #19 or #21 both Dusk Blue 4-speeds.

[lycan]

Can i just say ... this guy William ^^ knows a thing or two about ZL-1s :wink:

[JoeC]

Craig Cazier’s Action West Camaro

had to be 1970 or later for Pro Stock

[x44d80]

The information I have on the Actiion West Camaro, which I affectionately call the 70th ZL1, N666604, was given to me when I interviewed Click Bamberger over 34 years ago at his residence. He said the Camaro was invoiced through Dick Harrell to Capital Chevrolet in SLC, Utah. He said the sticker price was $7,200.00.
I interviewed Ron Stokes, a district manager for Chevrolet in the Northwest and he remembered the car being shuffled from dealer to dealer due to the price . Rex Parmain, team mechanic said the car disappeared from the dealership for three days before it was sold, was joy ridden by salesman and caught rod bolt and broke three pistons.They found the damage when they tore the motor down for a blueprint and found a gouge in the block and 3 pistons replaced.
I interviewed Craig Cazier's ex-wife who said the car was never street driven, came to shop, they went into the hood, came out the trunk, stripped everything for racing Pro-stock.. It was painted Tangerine Metallic by Stan Robles, a painter for George Barris. They took the prepped car to Pomona for the 1st ever Pro Stock event, quailified 18th in the 32 car field, won round one, broke in 2nd round. The car was match raced in the West till sold in 1971 or 1972. I emailed Vickie Harrell and she was very receptive to give me information on what she had about the car until she found out who owned the car now and cut off all dialogue.
The car went through several owners, finally stripped of parts, cut up, dumped and abandoned. I chased it down, dragged the poor carcass home. My memories of the car was when I saw if parked at F. G Ferre and sons Speed Shop in SLC, then at a friends garage. When I saw it I said it has to be a Z28 due to the disc brakes, but he said no, its a 427 because of the 427 crayon marks in the fender extensions.
Now for the downer part. Ive got letters from Fred Gibb, Ed Cunnen and Chevrolet, saying no, it could be a dealer prepped car, but not a factory ZL1. No papers,protecta-plate etc,,. Its got a factory punched T.I ignition hole in the firewall, welded n10 exhaust plate on the frame, the X44D80 trim tag..
Theres a bit more information on past owners names, a few pictures, etc.
Regards, Brent

[McCune]

I believe the guy who ordered the Bamberger ZL1 lives in my city of St.George Utah. I heard that when the car showed up and Bamberger seen the plan Jane Camaro, he didn't want the car. The sales guy had to scramble to move the very expensive car.

[JoeC]

Interesting story on the Action West Camaro

did you get a NCRS shipping data report on it showing what dealer it was shipped to?

What color and interior is on the trim tag?

do you still have it?

[William]

Yup, it's a story for sure.

N666604 was final-assembled on or about July 7, 1969.

It was submitted to the CRG data base October 2001, noted as COPO 9561. Was a stripped body at that time, originally orange X44D80. Sold new at Capitol Chev.

That it was raced with a ZL-1 engine does not mean it was built with COPO 9560. Bill Jenkins, Jim Liberman, Dave Arnold, famously raced retrofitted ZL-1 powered '69 Camaros. I have examined many old Camaro drag cars with plenty of owner-added holes for racing equipment.

Ironic, I recently examined an in-process ZL-1 Camaro restoration with the TI hole welded shut. Or, at least it wasn't there...

[x44d80]

Yes, I have it, its on a rotisserie. Its got a black interior. I purchased new quarters, hood, fenders from GM years ago, great doors from a member here. For a 604 mile car you would no believe how much sheet metal damage a low mile race car gets. When I retrieved it, the front frame with the bbc mounts, a-arms, BBC x-member, steering box and a few other steering parts were left behind. I have some other parts that I will post for sale that post date the car to get things like calipers, master cylinder etc. etc. Regards, Brent

[x44d80]

Thanks William. I will post the picture of T.I hole. Yes, there was many holes added to the car. Regards, Brent

[Mike]

The engine bay jambs in the Action West photo (post #116) look like they are Dusk Blue or Green, definitely not orange. It sounds like you've done a lot of research but are you sure it's the same car?

[x44d80]

Its the same car. Ive got a photo copy of the title of next owner who match raced it with the vin. Also a photo of when a friend of mine owned it in his garage stripping off the orange paint to paint it. Best Regards, Brent

[x44d80]

This is a couple of pics of the T.I. harness hole in the firewall. Years ago I talked with Rex Parmain who said he pulled the ignition out when they were prepping the car and replaced it with a aftermarket ignition. He said he had it on a shelf and I tried to buy it but he said he was going to install it in a Corvette he owned. Looking at the other photo at the Autorama at the old Salt Palace I cannot tell if its a Mallory YL distributor. It does have yellow ignition wires.

[Mike]

Do you know what ever happened to the ZL-1 motor that was in it? Or have you ever tried to track it down?

[JoeC]

There was a post on ZL-1 #9 drag car called "ZuLu-One' I was asking questions on it and
George Ebling replied

" it was originally a Dick Harrell car that he sold to Tom Rose, from Warren OH. Tom raced it for a while, then sold it back to Dick.
Tom was a Buick racer.
Tom never drove his cars, always had drivers, good drivers
the ‘69 was named “Great Scat”. The ramp trucks were probably white GMC’s. He also had both a black and red ‘67 GS’s, a ‘68 white GS convertible named “Salvation Jane”, a white “
‘70 GS named “Little Joe” a 71 GS I can’t remember if it had a name, and a Buick powered Opel GT Flop top that ran 9.0’s.
if memory serves correctly he only ran ZuLu-One one or two years. Always claimed he didn’t like the constant maintenance

I thought this was very interesting because in one of the photos of "ZuLu-One" there are 2 ramp trucks. On the other ramp truck is a red Buick that looks like a 1969 GS.

[William]

The pic on the left is one of the pics you posted of the alleged K66 piercing.

Next to it is a photo of the same area on a 1969 Camaro. The circled hole is for one of the firewall pad retainers, in the same place on all 1969 Camaros.

Maybe it's me, but I see enough differences to question your photo. Can we get a pic of the entire left side of the firewall?

[PeteLeathersac]

‘

08/71 Newspaper article w/ Craig Cazier’s Action West ZL1 Camaro as postings above.
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[duskblue]

A few more pics of the action west car ,the for sale add from capitol chevrolet .It took a while to sell.