NCRS report

[x33rs]

I bought a 72 Chevelle in 1987 at the Charlotte Auto Fair. I've owned the car ever since. Never really cared about it's origins or previous owners, I've just simply enjoyed the car for the last 30-something years.

So, I'm getting ready to paint it soon. I've always known it was a special order paint car, no codes on the cowl tag. Never really cared what it might have been until now. I've noticed a couple areas that still have what looks like Carolina Blue paint. I kind of figured the car likely came out of the Carolinas, just never cared enough to investigate.

Now that I'm getting ready to paint the car, curiosity got the better of me. I sent away for the NCRS report and sure enough it says code 503 zone 16. Sold new at Modern Chevrolet Company out of Winston Salem, North Carolina. Whatayaknow, lol. Chances are the Carolina Blue I found is probably the original color.

Just thought I'd share :beers:

[luv2sixty9]

Sweet, nice rare color. I would paint it back to CB, I luv it!

[x33rs]

I was on the fence about that, now I have to think really hard about it, lol.

I believe the PPG code is 6137 which is actually a color that ford used in 2003, which they called robin egg blue and sometimes desert sky blue. I'll have to see about crossing that number over to BASF as that's the product I like to use here.

It's been hugger orange for so long I am going to have a hard time with this decision.

[x33rs]

I google earthed Modern Chevrolet in Winston Salem and they are still in business. However when I zoom in I don't see a single Carolina Blue color in the entire lot :grin: I guess that ship has sailed.

[x33rs]

Dad wants orange, wife hates the orange, and my son likes both. Aaaaaa

Okay I need a vote from the car nuts here.

[Rumbleguts396]

Happy Wife, Happy Life. Make sure whatever you decide Mama is Happy !!!! ROB

[carnut4life]

I like orange too but I'd go with the Carolina Blue if that's the original color. NC is one of the few states that still offers a complete title history, including the MSO from GM if you're interested in tracking down the history of the car. Last one I got was 10 or 11 bucks. Best of luck either way.

[John]

...

… Carolina Blue :scholar:

[Xplantdad]

Paint it the Carolina blue! :)

[RPOLS3]

Blue

[1967Z28]

Definitely the Carolina Blue.

[L89DRMR]

Blue

[Billohio]

Blue and get the wife her favorite coffee drink lol

[lowmile]

Blue

[x33rs]

I like orange too but I'd go with the Carolina Blue if that's the original color. NC is one of the few states that still offers a complete title history, including the MSO from GM if you're interested in tracking down the history of the car. Last one I got was 10 or 11 bucks. Best of luck either way.

Yes I'd be interested. Haven't the slightest clue how to go about it though. Pointers welcome.

[x33rs]

Wow, the overwhelming response is blue. I'm surprised. I didn't think it would be a popular color. Very interesting so many people lean towards that.

[x77-69z28]

Carolina Blue if original.
Buddy

[carnut4life]

x33rs, You should be able to print a title history application off the NC DMV page, I believe it's a two page document. You'll have to pick a reason for your search, I always check the statistical/research box and have never had an issue getting a title history. I believe for a couple bucks extra you can even get a notarized copy. I've done this 3 or 4 times in the last 15 years and usually get 15-20 pages of info on each car. Best of luck.

[Carolina Dreamin']

Carolina Blue :smile:

[wheelhop]

Carolina Blue gets my vote!

[Blown32]

Definitely Carolina Blue!

[John]

…. It will be Sweeeeet :scholar:


http://i37.servimg.com/u/f37/10/07/74/51/als_7010.jpg

https://www.chevellestuff.net/1972/chevelle/gallery/more/carolina_blue_black.jpg

...

[x33rs]

x33rs, You should be able to print a title history application off the NC DMV page, I believe it's a two page document. You'll have to pick a reason for your search, I always check the statistical/research box and have never had an issue getting a title history. I believe for a couple bucks extra you can even get a notarized copy. I've done this 3 or 4 times in the last 15 years and usually get 15-20 pages of info on each car. Best of luck.

Thanks,
I'll get after that this week and see what it turns up. :beers:

[x33rs]

…. It will be Sweeeeet :scholar:


http://i37.servimg.com/u/f37/10/07/74/51/als_7010.jpg

https://www.chevellestuff.net/1972/chevelle/gallery/more/carolina_blue_black.jpg

...

Ha, where do you find this stuff. That looks better than I thought it would. I really like vinyl tops and I think that definitely helps break it up. Mine doesn't have a vinyl top so a lot more blue.

[JKZ27]

Carolina Blue!


Modern Chevrolet operates Classic Muscle, IIRC.

[427TJ]

Carolina Blue, done right, will win over the wife!

[x33rs]

Wow, are all you guys closet Carolina sports fans? :grin:

I've never seen this many people in support of this color. I don't even recall seeing a car at any of the major car events this color, in decades.

I sure would like to see this color in person.

[resto4u]

Yes, carolina blue. The best part is you get a copy of the original MSO with the dealer information.

[x33rs]

I sent off the paperwork last week. Anxious to see what comes back. An MSO would be cool. Wish I was that lucky with the Z. I'll update when I see something. Thanks to everyone, and please don't be shy, if you like orange better just say so, I'm not sensitive either way and honestly still on the fence. :biggthumpup:

[Mr70]

I vote for... :tongue:

i4h4BE3Uvxc

[PeteLeathersac]

'

If any interest, there's an older style Modern Chev Winston Emblem on Etsy.
Not sure why the Dutch link only but item noted as in the US...
https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/listing/695656417/modern-chevrolet-dealership-badge?ref=related-3

:beers:
~ Pete

.

[x33rs]

Thanks Pete. Yes I'd be interested in things like this. I was wondering about possible license plate frames or emblems but searches I tried never turned up anything. I suck at computers by the way so take that for what it's worth, lol. I'll pursue this and see if I can get somewhere. Much appreciated :beers:

[Xplantdad]

Pete is great at stuff like this, Larry!

[x33rs]

Thanks Bruce, you guys are great.

I got my wife on it and she researched it as she is always skeptical of adds like that. Turns out the guy is in Los Angeles selling it. Only $10 plus $3 to ship. So I figured for $13 I'll take the chance, if I'm out $13 then oh well. If it shows up that's even better.

Looks like mild pitting but it's restorable. It'll be going on the decklid :biggthumpup:

[x33rs]

Emblem showed up today, just as described.

Gotta give a big thanks to Pete for the heads up. Pete, next time you're in Arizona lunch is on me :beers:

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Nice to hear everything came together smoothly, amazing timing really also cheap fun!
Looking forward to the Emblem mounted on the Trunk lid picture!
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[x33rs]

For those that have requested info from the North Carolina DMV, do you have a rough estimate of a time frame before you saw anything?

I know it's only been a little over 2 weeks, and there was a holiday mixed in there, so I'm not in a hurry, just curious what to expect.

Thanks.

[carnut4life]

I've ordered 3 or 4 in the past 15 years and don't remember any of them taking more than a few weeks so I would be really surprised if it doesn't arrive in the next week. Can't wait to hear what happens and hope there is some useful information in it for you Larry.

[x33rs]

Been a hair over 4 weeks and they haven't even cashed the check yet :hmmm:

[x33rs]

Check still isn't cashed so I decided to call today. Didn't get anywhere with that. After listening to a recording and options for 5 minutes I finally get to the title department and make the phone ring. They just pick it up and hang up on you.

So I tried again, going through the whole process again. Same deal. Finally get the phone to ring about 5 times, they pick it up and hang up on you.

So I guess this is going to be a dead end. I'll likely just stop payment on the check and forget about it because after this amount of time they should have at least cashed the check by now.

Oh well, thanks for the lead anyway.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Not being a large amount, why not leave the cheque rolling for now hoping all eventually gets processed?
Fair enough if 6 months or more but like mom said, patience is a virtue and good things often come to those who wait.:scholar:
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[x33rs]

You're probably right. I don't really care about the money. I'll just let it roll a while. I did also try contact via email through the link they provide on the website, but no response.

[carnut4life]

Last one I got was in May of 2017, maybe the law has changed and they stopped offering the service? I'm with Pete though, I'd let it ride and keep my fingers crossed. Best of luck.

[x33rs]

It's still listed on there website as being offered, which is where I printed off the form per instructions, filled it out and mailed it. Oddly they didn't have an on line option for this to simplify things so no paypal or credit card could be used. But anyway, if it's no longer available now, which wouldn't surprise me, then they simply haven't updated their website yet.

[x33rs]

Last one I got was in May of 2017, maybe the law has changed and they stopped offering the service? I'm with Pete though, I'd let it ride and keep my fingers crossed. Best of luck.

How long did it take to get yours?

[carnut4life]

I thought it only took a few weeks but I sold the car last year so I can't compare the date on the packet with the date I bought the car. I'll check my bank statements when I get home in a few days and see if that helps me narrow it down. If I figure it out I'll let you know.

[x33rs]

Just an update for anyone interested.

I got a response through the email contact info on the North Carolina DMV website. She said nothing comes up on the vin alone in their records and then asked what make and model of car it is. She also asked why I was looking for this information.

Based on these questions I assume she has not received what I mailed in.

So anyway I replied, gave her the information on the car and verified she has the correct vin, and told her why I was seeking information and that if they do find something and needed another check sent to just let me know and I would send one right out.

We'll see where this goes....

[bobm67]

Just an update for anyone interested.

I got a response through the email contact info on the North Carolina DMV website. She said nothing comes up on the vin alone in their records and then asked what make and model of car it is. She also asked why I was looking for this information.

Based on these questions I assume she has not received what I mailed in.

So anyway I replied, gave her the information on the car and verified she has the correct vin, and told her why I was seeking information and that if they do find something and needed another check sent to just let me know and I would send one right out.

We'll see where this goes....

I've sent too NCDMV a few times, I us MV 605A form and #5 for use in research activities and statistical reports. It takes about 3 weeks, and you get MSO and copy of all titles they have. Hope this helps.
Good luck
Bob

[the427king]

I sent titled owner form to North Carolina for a few dollars and within 2 weeks received about 80 pages back!! It detailed all the owners and even had many bill of sale copies and it even documented the mileage .....my car had 24 !! Owners including 5 or 6 in one year. Everything from owner 1 to 24 w North Carolina info ....priceless info and service for about the price of a Starbucks coffee..south Carolina and others do the same I'm told.

[resto4u]

When i did mine, it took only about two weeks. It might be that they are missing records or how far they go back. My request was for my 73 Z28, and that was done about 2005. Don't give up!

[x33rs]

I received another email reply from the NCDMV. Libby says she has sent the request to the archives department to have the information researched. Fingers crossed.

[sixt9rsx33]

Go heels!!!! Carolina blue!

[x33rs]

LOL :biggthumpup:

I'm interested to see what comes back. She said give it 5-10 days and I should know something by then.

[x33rs]

Well not so good news. I was told they do have information on my car but because my name isn't affiliated with it in North Carolina (I bought it and took it back to Ohio and titled it) They won't release any information due to the privacy act.

I explained to her I was told North Carolina was one of the few states that still offered this information after answering the questionnaire on the back of the form that specifically stated for research use only, and that I was mainly interested in the possibility of receiving the dealer MSO paperwork, and not information on previous owners. But I doubt that will go anywhere.

Looks like another dead end for me.

[x33rs]

Libby went on to tell me the only other paperwork they would have is the Manufacture Certificate of Origin which doesn't list anything specific other than the HP and the weight of the vehicle, she says it has no other information on it.
So there is no dealer MSO or large folder of paperwork, nothing that would verify how the car was optioned or the original color.

Looks like I'm just going to take pictures of what I find to document the original color and that's as good as it's going to get.

[resto4u]

You are being given inaccurate information. the MSO manufacture statement of origin and manufacture cert of origin are the same thing. And they do list the original shipped to dealer name.

[x33rs]

It may just list the dealer name, but I know what that is already thanks to the NCRS report. That's what started the whole vin search thing when I found out the car was sold new in North Carolina. Others had mentioned how lenient the Carolinas have been about releasing prior owner information and that a dealer MSO may also be included. I was under the impression the MSO may also show options or possibly some hand written remarks about color since the car was special ordered.

Well since that time I've found that North Carolina no longer shares prior vehicle owner information thanks to the privacy act. And I'm told by Libby at the NCDMV the MSO or MCO will only show the HP and weight of the vehicle anyway, all of which I know. I asked if I could at least buy that document and forget the list of prior owners, honoring the privacy act. I have not heard back.

I was mainly hoping I might be able to document the special order color of the car. That's really what I was after. So I'll do that the old fashion way and document everything on camera as I dig deeper.

The whole process has been a long one. Mailing in the forms with the check got no where. It was never returned to sender so I don't think it got lost, and the check was never cashed. I assume they tossed it.

Next I tried calling, only to go through 5-10 minutes of recordings, finally getting the phone to ring for assistance, only then to have someone actually pick up the line and hang up. I tried that a few times with the same results.

Then, I resorted to sending an email. That is finally how I eventually got through to someone, explained the situation, and after weeks of waiting, I'm told they simply no longer provide this information. Thought that was odd when they still offer the forms to mail in specifically for this.

So unless some miracle happens and Libby offers some form of paperwork, I think it's a dead end.

Some good came of this though. The NCRS gave me the original dealer of Modern Chevrolet, and thanks to some of you I bought a dealer emblem for the deck lid. So pretty cool stuff.

[x33rs]

I was just informed by Libby that they will not furnish the MSO or MCO because I am not the original owner of the car.

North Carolina must have some new rules in play.

[X66 714]

There's nothing on the front side that would say anything about the first owner. See if they'll sent the front side only.
Maybe you need to get a lawyer involved. I've actually thought about that with MVD Phoenix..Joe

[x33rs]

Thanks Joe,

Actually I don't even know what info the MSO would provide or what's on it. According to Libby there is nothing critical that tells anything about the car, just the HP and the weight of the vehicle.

I don't think I want to go down the lawyer route, I don't want it that badly if there is no other prudent information on it. I know what the car is, I was just hoping maybe a piece of paper might have chicken scratch on it about the color since several here hinted at that.

I think we talked about that deal with the Phoenix DMV when I was trying to find history on our 69 Z. Turned out because our Z wasn't registered for 35 years it was purged from the system (any car not registered more than 10 years in AZ) So supposedly they have no record of the Z ever existing. I had to create a completely new registration, pay a fee, and wait 3 days for them to accomplish it making sure there were no leans on the vehicle and that it wasn't stolen. For the life of me I can't figure out how they can do that on a car that supposedly doesn't exist to them anymore, and yet can't provide me with anything about it. Even the Camaro guru's in town that have owned or seen every 69 Z around here has never seen this one. I can't even get an NCRS report on the darn thing so I pretty much gave up on that one.

I'm interested in how things proceed with yours. Sounds like you are still pursuing it.

I'd like to know more about MSO's and what's on them if anyone cares to share so I can decide if I want to keep chasing this.

[X66 714]

Here's a picture of a MSO...Joe

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9540.msg69301#msg69301

[x33rs]

Thanks for that Joe. Doesn't appear to have anything on there that would make it worth the time to pursue. I don't even see an owners name on there that would be any concern for the DMV, so I guess they just don't want to mess with it. Kind of odd they are saving it for the original owner. After 47 years I don't think he's coming for it LOL.

[resto4u]

The privacy laws that were passed, were federal. Then each state decided how they were going to inturpit and follow the law. And states added there own laws to close loopholes or liabilities that the federal law did not address. So they either changed some laws or the person doesn't want to do or know their job.

[x33rs]

The privacy laws that were passed, were federal. Then each state decided how they were going to inturpit and follow the law. And states added there own laws to close loopholes or liabilities that the federal law did not address. So they either changed some laws or the person doesn't want to do or know their job.

I'm hoping it's the first scenario and the laws are just keeping this from happening, because if it's the second scenario I'm SOL and that's disappointing knowing something could be done in that instance. Libby is the only person I've even been able to have contact with after weeks of trying snail mail, phone calls and emails. She is the only one that bothered to respond. So I feel my chances of getting someone else are about as good as winning the lottery.

[COPO]

MSO can be an important document for verifying original engine size. Value difference between a 350 Chevelle and a 454 is quite a bit for say a 1970 model before the days that the VIN was able to identify engine size. In the absence of other documents, the MSO can be valuable.

[x33rs]

I was never one to get googly eyed over paper work. So much of that stuff is faked now I quit putting a bunch of stock in it.

It's a big reason why I stick to buying cars that can be verified with vin and data plate, and both of those are pretty easy to spot if they've been tampered with.

It's why I'm not too worried with the chevelle as the engine is in the vin, or my Z that is an X33. My Formula designation is in the vin and the super cobra jet is the same way along with the gear code on the data plate that verifies super status. What's nice about the Pontiacs and the Fords is that Marti Reports and PHS's are available to tell you exactly what they are. But Chevrolets I'm a little more careful about what I buy. The Z for instance, if it were a Van Nuys car, or a real early Norwood without the X code I would of passed on it.

Not that I wouldn't mind having the MSO on the Chevelle, I most certainly would. But at this point I'm not so sure it's going to happen.

[x33rs]

I just wanted to update this since some new information came to light.

I sent in for that paperwork way back at the beginning of July 2019. Out of the blue (pun intended) my phone rings. It's a lady on the other end stating she's with the North Carolina DMV. I actually didn't think much of it at first and was wondering why they were calling me.

She informed me she is in the process of pulling paperwork, with a couple more documents to find and then she was going to send it all to me. She even said she still had my check that they had not cashed yet, lol. She apologized for the delay.

I was shocked after being told by another lady at the NCDMV that they don't do this anymore and she wasn't very forthcoming about any details. I don't think she would have given me the time of day if I had asked for it.

So about 3 weeks later an envelope shows up full of papers. Basically what she sent are copies of titles and transfers from previous owners. Names and addresses are legible with dates and that's about it.
The only data I can verify with this stuff is that I at least know the mileage is real. The last time it changed hands in 83 before I acquired the car in 87 was the first time the mileage was actually documented on the title with a little over 40k miles. Other than that there isn't much information on the paperwork, but thought I'd let others know that North Carolina is still offering this.

[Igosplut]

Amazing how one state will give you that info, and others (that have it) will not release any (what they consider) private names, addresses, etc, and make such a big deal out of it.

[x33rs]

Amazing how one state will give you that info, and others (that have it) will not release any (what they consider) private names, addresses, etc, and make such a big deal out of it.

Yeah, I was actually shocked I got anything at all and even more surprised the names and addresses weren't blotted out.

[914JPW]

Does South Carolina do it too? I NCRS says that my Chevelle was delivered new to Central Chevrolet Company Inc. in Columbia South Carolina.

[x33rs]

Does South Carolina do it too? I NCRS says that my Chevelle was delivered new to Central Chevrolet Company Inc. in Columbia South Carolina.

I don't know but I'm sure someone here does. Might be worth a try.

I will say though, as in my case, it's very dependent on who you talk to at the DMV. I had one lady tell me no way no how, they don't do that anymore, only to have another lady call me 7 months later and tell me it's being processed. So for what ever reason, not everyone at the NCDMV is on the same page.

[resto4u]

I am glad they finally came though for you. How many years back did they give you? And it may have been brought in from some other state. If this is the case, it is usually noted what state it came from into north carolina.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

So cool they came through in the end also good thing you didn't cancel the cheque.
Best of luck backtracking past owner names and looking forward to future updates!
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[x33rs]

Thanks Resto, was certainly a surprise after all that time passed, but glad they did.

They went back to the original owner, which picked up the car just a few days after the dealer received it, Modern Chevrolet in Winston Salem, NC. He had the car 4 years and traded it back in. A lady bought the car from there and oddly it traded hands a couple of times after that and stayed on the same street with a different box number. The last owner bought the car in 1983 and kept it for 4 years until I purchased the car in 1987. The whole time the car stayed in North Carolina, and in the same town for most of it's early life. When I found the car it was at the Charolotte Auto Fair. I took it back home to Cincinnati where I was living at the time and it proceeded to lead a cushy life. Brought it to Arizona with me when I moved.

[the427king]

Yeah, I was actually shocked I got anything at all and even more surprised the names and addresses weren't blotted out

Yes,I did a NC search too, but had to swear and sign in 3 places that Id never release names or contact the people on the paperwork. I suspect if you tried and got a nasty ex owner who likes his privacy you may have potential legal problems.

[x33rs]

'

So cool they came through in the end also good thing you didn't cancel the cheque.
Best of luck backtracking past owner names and looking forward to future updates!
:beers:
~ Pete

.

I haven't went back to read if that was you that suggested to not cancel the check and let it ride, so if it was I have to say thanks for that :biggthumpup:

Glad I took that advice and let it ride.