Isn't there something sketchy with this car?

[442w30]

https://www.mecum.com/lots/LN1019-388104/1967-chevrolet-ss-427/

[mssl72]

Lots of sketchy chatter on the Impala SS427 message board a while back. Supposedly no '67 L72 full size cars were ever built. :dunno:

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Past SYC thread...
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=118829

:beers:
~ Pete

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[big gear head]

Back around 1985 there was a '67 Impala SS with a L72 and a 4 speed for sale at a gas station in Louisville. I could have bought it for $1200. The engine had fresh paint on it, so probably not original to the car. I wish I could go back and buy it now.

[fsc66]

It’s a clone, there were no 1967 Full Size Cars built with an L72. GM records show 0.

Paul

[PeteLeathersac]

'

'None built for retail sale' may be a better statement considering John Z's '67 L72 Engineering Test car w/ 'Special Order' tag as quote below from this past thread...
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=106778&page=5
:beers:
~ Pete



I had one when I worked at Chevrolet Engineering - tagged it for employee purchase the day it arrived in the Company Car Fleet garage; L-72 4-speed SS427, special-ordered by Engineering for Chassis Development. It hit the 3,000-mile mark in December, and I bought it and drove it home just before Christmas; sold it in Flint a couple of years later.

Removed the "Special Order" tag from the left side front fender reinforcement and put it in my rollaway just before I sold it, still have the tag - photo below. There may not have been any L-72 SS427's built on dealer order for retail sale, but there was at least one built for Engineering; I bought several sets of rear tires for it in the two years I owned it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

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[JEFF GHILANI]

Yes, we thoroughly debunked this car on the SS427 site in 2015. The car is a comedy of errors. Very very easy to prove false.

Unfortunately, the Hemmings cover article made a lot of people believe it is real.

[camarojoe]

So how did it get a gold award at MCACN with a 992 out of 1000?

[JEFF GHILANI]

We spent some time discussing that as well. Even Alan Colvin at one point seemed to find the car interesting. Perhaps at MCACN the car was being judged for restoration quality and correctness in terms of how it should be built with it's claimed options rather than authenticated to those options? Keep in mind the scarcity of available late 60s Impala experts on the order of detail that we encounter with Chevelles and Camaros.

We got into a big discussion about this car because this type of thing is so important to the integrity of the hobby, but it lasted months because the owner just didn't want to accept what we were saying and showing.

I'm tempted to post some detail pictures of the car and show you guys what all the fuss is about.

[mssl72]

I say post 'em up!

[TAR6569]

Does MCACN keep copies of the old completed judging forms? Wonder if they would have the ones from this car and could they be posted for us to see.

Ron Mroz normally helps judge the fullsize at the show but couldn't make it that year. Wonder who the other judges were besides Bill Braun. Don't you have to have credentials of some sort to be a judge at that show?

[aawtech]

Does MCACN keep copies of the old completed judging forms? Wonder if they would have the ones from this car and could they be posted for us to see.

Ron Mroz normally helps judge the fullsize at the show but couldn't make it that year. Wonder who the other judges were besides Bill Braun. Don't you have to have credentials of some sort to be a judge at that show?

Warren, Ron was out of town that year (with his daughter as I recall). This car NEVER would have flown with him as he is a 67 guy. There are so may things bogus about this car, I don't know where to start, but you already know what they are as we have discussed them. Car is a total fabrication. Surprised Dana is running it again as it was vetted out many years ago at one or two of their events. BJ contacted me about the car when it was asked to be run through their auction. I sent them a list of items on the car and they politely declined unless the person would agree that is was a recreation, which they would not.

[300deluxeL79]

remember this discussion on the old SS427 site, soooo much wrong with this car, TT denoted TH400 trans, frame had the 400 crossmember mounts, no 4D on the tag, tach redline was messed with, very amateur attempt at changing the casting number... owner was a real piece of work, would not take CLONE as an answer.

[camarojoe]

So who judged it a 992?

[Bill Pritchard]

remember this discussion on the old SS427 site, soooo much wrong with this car, TT denoted TH400 trans, frame had the 400 crossmember mounts, no 4D on the tag, tach redline was messed with, very amateur attempt at changing the casting number... owner was a real piece of work, would not take CLONE as an answer.

Yep, I remember all that, too. Very unfortunate that it got judged at MCACN.

[Nova Pete]

wow I just spent 90 minutes reading all the past sites and posts about this car.


Very nice to read the experts advice on such a car. Seems to be a real FAKE!
Imposture if you will..

[camarojoe]

Sold for $107,500.

[SS427]

Somebody is going to be very pissed when they sober up!

[bashton]

So how did it get a gold award at MCACN with a 992 out of 1000?

VERY simple answer; this car was judged at MCACN as a DAY 2 car, NOT Concours Stock. Day 2 allows period correct replacement parts, including engines, trans etc etc.

I think in the transition between the several auction sellers this car has seen, the owners represented it to imply it was Concours judged and not Day 2. You'll see that none of the previous sellers offered to show the MCACN certifications, as they clearly say Day 2.

This is also the reason we changed the terminology for our modified cars to Blue, Red and White ribbon instead of Bronze/Silver and Gold, as some sellers would state their car was judged Gold at MCACN, and potential buyers would incorrectly assume it was Concours Stock.

Bottom line, as always, is that buyers need to do their due diligence.

Bashton

[bashton]

Does MCACN keep copies of the old completed judging forms? Wonder if they would have the ones from this car and could they be posted for us to see.

Ron Mroz normally helps judge the fullsize at the show but couldn't make it that year. Wonder who the other judges were besides Bill Braun. Don't you have to have credentials of some sort to be a judge at that show?

No, we record the score and keep that in our registry. Original sheets are always given to the owner. As I recall, Dru D. was involved, since it was a Day 2 car, NOT Concours Stock.

Please see my previous post as to how this car scored a Gold.

Bashton

[TAR6569]

VERY simple answer; this car was judged at MCACN as a DAY 2 car, NOT Concours Stock. Day 2 allows period correct replacement parts, including engines, trans etc etc.

I think in the transition between the several auction sellers this car has seen, the owners represented it to imply it was Concours judged and not Day 2. You'll see that none of the previous sellers offered to show the MCACN certifications, as they clearly say Day 2.

This is also the reason we changed the terminology for our modified cars to Blue, Red and White ribbon instead of Bronze/Silver and Gold, as some sellers would state their car was judged Gold at MCACN, and potential buyers would incorrectly assume it was Concours Stock.

Bottom line, as always, is that buyers need to do their due diligence.

Bashton

Thanks for the reply. I always thought the owner restored to "factory stock" as I've never seen it advertised as a day 2 car.

"And Bill did the restoration right, too, scoring a total of 992 points out of a possible 1,000 at the Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals in nearby Chicago at the car’s first show outing. To top it off, the chief judge, noted 1960s Chevrolet authority Bill Braun, hand-wrote a note on the judging sheets saying that the three judges agreed that the L-72 is the correct engine for the car. While it’s not the definitive paperwork Bill needs, it certainly supports the case for authenticity."

In this HMM article, it says the 3 MCACN judges were checking to see if the engine was correct. As I recall, the handwritten note had something to do with the engine pad numbers looking ok. Are these numbers typically judged in the day 2 class to see if the engine is correct for the car?

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/one-of-1967-chevrolet-impala-ss-427/

[camarojoe]

^A very good question.