Month Car Shipped Reports?

[rlw68]

I have a question about the "Month Car Shipped Report" where the NCRS document service data comes from. Does the original Chevrolet report contain the option codes or not?

An image from just one microfiche page would be the definitive answer :confused2:

https://www.chevymuscledocs.com/


With permission granted by the General Motors Heritage Center, the National Corvette Restorers Society is pleased to announce that it can now offer certain information contained in 1965 through 1972 (with some limited data) Camaro, Chevelle and Nova Month Car Shipped Reports.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Being 'Monthly Shipping Reports' are exactly what GM Canada Vintage Services gleans Vin specific 'as shipped' RPO's also other info to prepare their 'Vintage Vehicle' packages, it wouldn't be surprising if the answer is YES.
Doubtful they'll ever release the US info but if a large fraud case, a court could demand RPO info for a specific Vin?:hmmm:

Keep in mind, GM Canada has Vin specific RPO info available for most;
- Canada built 60's/70's cars shipped new to Canadian dealers.
- US Built 60's/70's cars shipped new to Canadian dealers.
- Canada built 60's/70's cars shipped new to US dealers also other countries.
- '77 and up GM product built in the US & Canada regardless of where shipped new.

:beers:
~ Pete

.

[firstgenaddict]

The reports must contain some more unique identifying alpha numeric codes BECAUSE the NCRS will confirm that a tank sheet or window sticker belongs to certain cars based upon DEALER ORDER NUMBERS and other unique identifiers.

[rlw68]

The reports must contain some more unique identifying alpha numeric codes BECAUSE the NCRS will confirm that a tank sheet or window sticker belongs to certain cars based upon DEALER ORDER NUMBERS and other unique identifiers.

Exactly. Some details were posted on the CRG website in the Original dealer info for 1st gens is available (http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=11724.msg94479#msg94479) discussion, reply #42

Sorry, I removed this from an earlier post after finding more information about the reports. I'm off on a 'fiching trip!

:smirk:

[Kurt S]

No, it only has the VIN, the order #, the dealer, and the date. That's it.

[rlw68]

No, it only has the VIN, the order #, the dealer, and the date. That's it.

Can you show us one of the pages from this report? The Canadian ones are easy to find.

[firstgenaddict]

On Corvette Order Copies there is not a VIN - however there is a VIN in the shipping reports which lines up with the order number and then the vette sheets have IDENT NUMBER, which apparently is also on the shipping report, how an ident number would be represented on a Camaro or other line I have no clue...

For the NCRS Document confirmation service - My understanding is that you email a high res photo of the TANK SHEET OR WINDOW STICKER to the NCRS and they will confirm if it is authentic, I understand they use those numbers in their determination.

[rlw68]

Nice summary from a CRG post by John Hinkley (johnz) (http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4795.msg31241#msg31241)


The body number on the cowl tag was assigned when the plant accepted a dealer order for production; the dealer order number (which was pre-printed on the dealer's order blanks) didn't serve any direct purpose on the line in production, although it followed the car on all the Chevrolet paperwork (Broadcast Copy, window sticker, Car Shipper, etc.). The body number on the cowl tag showed up as the "Ident Number" in the top row on the Broadcast Copy, and also showed up in the upper right corner of the window sticker and Car Shipper. In the scheduling computer, that number tied the unit back to the specs on the Dealer Order.
This is a really magic number! The way NCRS keeps it 'secret' and used GM data to create their document validation service is really shady, in my opinion. It costs another $100 and offered only for members Corettes. Might be a cash cow?? Revenue for non profit organizations is public information


Document Service revenue for 2018 was $89,221
Document Service revenue for 2017 was $101,860
Document Service revenue for 2016 was $99,037
Document Service revenue for 2015 was $118,282

(Source: Corvette Restorer-Fall 2019 and Fall 2017 issues)


“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
~ Eric Hoffer


:bs:

[Kurt S]

They sunk a lot of time and money into making the dealer data available. I don't know that any other group that would have been able to do that.

[rlw68]

They sunk a lot of time and money into making the dealer data available. I don't know that any other group that would have been able to do that.

The GM Media Archives has been quite capable of managing and providing access to significantly larger amounts of information. It really seems absurd to me that the NCRS got exclusive access to these shipping records instead. Do you know how much it cost them or what year it was? From what I've seen the expense had been recouped at least 10 fold.

The NCRS decided what information to hold back and use for their own purposes. Perhaps the rest of us poor cousins were lucky to get reports at all, even though it was ~5 years later. We will likely never get the order# that is also stamped on the trim tags. Unlike all of the Corvettes I expect the majority of muscle cars dont have build sheets on the gas tanks to be 'validated'. The recent discussions about clones like now infamous LS-6 wannabe (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=157405) is what got me looking into this to begin with.

I had no idea until now that the order# is also on the monthly shipping reports. Maybe everyone knows this and I am just late to the party as usual.

:crazy:

[Mr70]

...The recent discussions about clones like this now infamous L78 (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=157405)
That's a factory Black LS-5.

[Kurt S]

You don't know from whence you speak. The NCRS got the access through the GM Archives. The Archives could not take it on. There's data on a couple of million Camaros, plus the other models - it was a huge undertaking.

Finally, 50 years later, there is dealer info and production date available.
And you're upset cause one number, that is only used on a couple pieces of documentation in some years, isn't given out. And that data could be easily be use to fake documents. I'd make the same call.

[rlw68]

You don't know from whence you speak. The NCRS got the access through the GM Archives. The Archives could not take it on. There's data on a couple of million Camaros, plus the other models - it was a huge undertaking.

Finally, 50 years later, there is dealer info and production date available.
And you're upset cause one number, that is only used on a couple pieces of documentation in some years, isn't given out. And that data could be easily be use to fake documents. I'd make the same call.

I can accept condescending replies if the information provided is complete and accurate.

It was just my opinion that GM Media Archives could also provide these reports, given they already have a very large Vehicle Invoices (http://www.gmmediaarchive.com/?page=1) service in place. The service is outsourced to Allied Vaughn (http://www.alliedvaughn.com/content-managment/) I have 30 years of experience in IT, all C++/C# software development and relational databases from when Oracle was v4. Working with a few million records of unstructured data the norm. There is nothing magical about it. The NCRS is not experienced in data management as they wrote in this post (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1400377&postcount=16) and in the Corvette Restorer v37/4.

The number I am 'upset' and whining about is the order# that is on the shipping report. It is not accurate or complete whence you state that its only on a few documents. For the 1969 Camaro the order# is the body number on the trim tag. I assume its the same for other Fisher body cars.

However the difference is Fisher did not build Corvettte bodies. The NCRS decision to withhold information is all about fake Corvette documents and nothing more. I can appreciate that especially if their tank sticker is commonly available. For the other vehicles like my '69 Camaro build sheets are very rare. Plus we already know the order# without any paperwork. This is not the same situation at all. Including the order# on our NCRS report would match the trim tag to the VIN. At this point in the game I think it would do more good than harm.


:eek2:

[rlw68]

You don't know from whence you speak.


:no:

[Keith Seymore]

For the 1969 Camaro the order# is the body number on the trim tag. I assume its the same for other Fisher body cars.



The order number does not appear on Pontiac Motor Division Fisher body trim tags.

The service is outsourced to Allied Vaughn (http://www.alliedvaughn.com/content-managment/) I have 30 years of experience in IT, all C++/C# software development and relational databases from when Oracle was v4. Working with a few million records of unstructured data the norm. There is nothing magical about it. The NCRS is not experienced in data management as they wrote in this post (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1400377&postcount=16) and in the Corvette Restorer v37/4.

Have you ever had any conversation with Jim Mattison from PHS about digitizing those records?

K

[Kurt S]

The 69 order # is on the trim tag. That's discussed here http://www.camaros.org/bodynumbering.shtml. Since it's on the trim tag, I didn't even consider it an issue.
I was talking about 67-68 order #'s.
Pretty easy - if it's that upsetting, don't use the NCRS service. :)

[rlw68]

The order number does not appear on Pontiac Motor Division Fisher body trim tags.

Have you ever had any conversation with Jim Mattison from PHS about digitizing those records?

Hi Keith, sorry my statement about the tags was too 'General'. I was referring to just Chevrolet Fisher bodies. Its interesting however that the '69 Camaro and Firebirds were assembled on the same line. It is my understanding that the Camaro body# on the trim tag started at ~100000 and the Firebird maybe around ~500000 for that year. So whats the number on the 'bird??

I've never met Jim M. It appears that his company was contracted to located the missing Chevy records (Corvette Forum post) (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c1-and-c2-corvettes/441147-any-one-else-heard-rumors-about-phs-for-chevrolet.html#post4723499) There was also a LOT of discussion about it right here on sYc (https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=71841) Some shipping records of course were eventually found and I believe he was the one who located them. But its another eight years later or so before the NCRS offered a service for their members Corvettes. During that time GM takes PHS to court over the ownership of the Pontiac records but it took a Court of Appeals decision (http://publicdocs.courts.mi.gov/Opinions/Final/COA/20080807_C275702_44_275702.OPN.PDF) to get them back.


Its quite the drama.


:headbang:

[rlw68]

The 69 order # is on the trim tag. That's discussed here http://www.camaros.org/bodynumbering.shtml. Since it's on the trim tag, I didn't even consider it an issue.
I was talking about 67-68 order #'s.
Pretty easy - if it's that upsetting, don't use the NCRS service. :)

You told me that I dont know what I am talking about. That apparently wasnt enough so then added misleading information about the order# so further discredit anything I posted. So now I'm still stupid because the number is on the '69 trim tag already and if I dont agree with the NCRS withholding information, too bad.

It seems like you just wait for any post that has the word 'Camaro' and jump in to show everyone how much you know. But all I see are these short snarky replies that contribute very little.


:smirk:

[rlw68]

Here's a page from a 1967 Chevrolet monthly shipping report. The information provided on the Chevy Muscle Docs (https://www.chevymuscledocs.com/) is shown. The other data was not made available.

Also interesting is the page number 271. There are fifty records per page which suggests the report has ~13550 cars at this point. Perhaps this report includes all vehicles for the St Louis plant that month.

150555

I expect these shipping records also vary by year. Sometime in 1968 or 1969 the computer systems were updated. This is also seen in some of the other paper records.

:test: