4-30-20 day for the 430 CanAm aluminum big block Chevy

[JoeC]

4-30-20 day 430 CanAm aluminum big block Chevy

Even to this day, the 430 BB Chevy is not very well known. I see different info on these engines but from what I can tell, Chevy made the CanAm 430 from about 1968 to 1972.

The aluminum CanAm cast iron sleeve block used a large 4.440 in. bore siamese cyls design.
In 1968 it used a short stroke 3.47 in. crank to get 430 cu. in. and about 700hp on gas.

There was some info printed that the 430 Chevy was considered as a production engine for 1970 but was cancelled along with other 1970 engine options.

In 1969, it was available as a 430 cu in and also with 427 or 454 cranks to get a 465 or 495 cu in and over 750hp.

Chevy also built a Can Am block without the cast iron sleeves and they can go over 500 cu in.

Chevy engineering used the Can Am engine for research using the same siamese cyls design on the 400 cu in small block production engine.

The Alu engine block with no cast iron sleeves design was used in the Vega engine. They used a special cast iron coated piston to control wear.

The CanAm BB Chevy engine dominated CamAm racing late 60's to early 70's beating Ferrari, Porsche, and Ford, all who had more expensive exotic engines.

The 430 CamAm engine would rev like a 302 and was about the same weight installed.

Bill Grumpy Jenkins ran a CamAm engine in his 68 Camaro match racer and used that same 68 Camaro CanAm set-up to win the first ever Pro Stock race in 1970. Bill also ran the 430 in his 69 and 70 Camaro along with other engines.

A few other drag racers used the 430 Chevy.

here is a picture of Joe Frankel who ran one in a 69 Camaro back in the day and had "430 CanAm" painted on the door

[70 copo]

Since it is a Big Block perhaps a better RPM/REV comparison would be to the L-88 right?

[EZ Nova]

Joe, these deals got me thinking for many reasons:

1. Have a "052" ZL1 block, 074 and '198 intaked engine. I know that the "production" '69 ZL1's @ 427 inches with the way they left GM was around the 575Hp range. NOw my motor does surpass the 700Hp mark, but with the GM parts, it wasn't an easy job and did take some time to get there. I figure these 430 I know are smaller then mine, less compression and pretty sure heads DO NOT flow anywhere near as well as mine? They do have the injection and meth fuel I figure, just not sure that these 430 would go 700Hp?

2. I'm currently doing a aluminum 4.600 bore 3.75 stroke (GM L88 crank) motor for the street. I'm figuring that these old Can-Am motors were in the 12.5 to 1 range? So I'm thinking the compression being a point higher then mine is a 30Hp advantage for the CA motors over my 498. That should be taken care of by me running FULL rollerized valvetrain, better piston AND ring designs plus smaller better rings? I will guarantee that my 2019 designed heads, with raised ex ports, better chambers and intake runners, along with the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake, ported, will blow away the top end those CM motors had. And very doubtful that there running 730+ lift camshafts either?

With what we as a hobby know today. Formulas for weight/ET/MPH even Grumpys Pro Stock didn't make near 750Hp with the tunnelrams? I "almost" bought a Reynolds CA block block off a member here, IIRC it was 427King, and he talked me out of it due to the no steel bores.

One strange thing this has brought up. These old alum CA motors were ran hard in that era. Both blocks and heads were pushed. I find it perplexing that for there high-rev prolonged usage, there wasn't more carnage like the street guys seen? I'm sure there was some, but like you said, these motors were cleaning up in that series, so they must have lasted a full race, reving high and being pushed. Yet the street guys are pulling rocker studs with a couple 12 sec pulls???

[mockingbird812]

Great information Joe. Thanks!!:biggthumpup:

[JoeC]

Since it is a Big Block perhaps a better RPM/REV comparison would be to the L-88 right?

From reading about the 430 Chevy , there were a few comments that it " would rev like a small block" or "rev like a 302".

I think they were taking about the short stroke or de-stroked dimensions , large bore to short stroke dimensions.

To get the SCCA legal 302 cubic inches, Chevrolet used 327 block and 283 crank so a 4.00" bore and a 3.00" stroke which was considered a short stoke for the 4 in bore size

similar to the 430 Chevy, that had a large 4.440 in. bore and 3.47 in. stroke vs the 427 L88 Bore and Stroke 4.251 in. x 3.760 in

[JoeC]

Joe, these deals got me thinking for many reasons:

They do have the injection and meth fuel I figure, just not sure that these 430 would go 700Hp?

?

I'm not an expert on the 1970 NHRA rules but read that 1970 Pro Stock was run on 7 HP per pound so the 430 Chevy could run in a 3010 lb Camaro.

by 1971 they were going into the mid 9s in NHRA Pro Stock so were making pretty good power on gas with tunnel ram 2x4bbs

the online ET-MPH-HP calculator says " Your HP is 693.88 computed from your vehicle weight of 3010 pounds and ET of 9.50 seconds"

The 430 CamAm engines were making good power also here is a youtube vid
Dyno Testing - 1973 McLaren Can-Am Big Block Chevy
where it pulls 750hp

They don't say if its a 430, 465, or 495 cu in engine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=101&v=v6dMJ5L6G2c&feature=emb_logo

[WILMASBOYL78]

Don't forget those Buick Nail Head motors...lots of torque.

-wilma

[William]

I doubt any production ZL1 engine got near 575 hp. We worked with Bill Porterfield back in the '90s on a ZL1 dyno comparison. With a good tune up, open headers, no AIR pump, air cleaner or alternator it did 523 hp.

http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml

Camaro High Performance has rebuilt several. With racing oil and modern rings, they see 550+hp.

[RALLY]

4-30-20 day 430 CanAm aluminum big block Chevy

Even to this day, the 430 BB Chevy is not very well known. I see different info on these engines but from what I can tell, Chevy made the CanAm 430 from about 1968 to 1972.

The aluminum CanAm cast iron sleeve block used a large 4.440 in. bore siamese cyls design.
In 1968 it used a short stroke 3.47 in. crank to get 430 cu. in. and about 700hp on gas.

There was some info printed that the 430 Chevy was considered as a production engine for 1970 but was cancelled along with other 1970 engine options.

In 1969, it was available as a 430 cu in and also with 427 or 454 cranks to get a 465 or 495 cu in and over 750hp.

Chevy also built a Can Am block without the cast iron sleeves and they can go over 500 cu in.

Chevy engineering used the Can Am engine for research using the same siamese cyls design on the 400 cu in small block production engine.

The Alu engine block with no cast iron sleeves design was used in the Vega engine. They used a special cast iron coated piston to control wear.

The CanAm BB Chevy engine dominated CamAm racing late 60's to early 70's beating Ferrari, Porsche, and Ford, all who had more expensive exotic engines.

The 430 CamAm engine would rev like a 302 and was about the same weight installed.

Bill Grumpy Jenkins ran a CamAm engine in his 68 Camaro match racer and used that same 68 Camaro CanAm set-up to win the first ever Pro Stock race in 1970. Bill also ran the 430 in his 69 and 70 Camaro along with other engines.

A few other drag racers used the 430 Chevy.

here is a picture of Joe Frankel who ran one in a 69 Camaro back in the day and had "430 CanAm" painted on the door

I remember Bill Jenkins saying he switched to the CanAm Block because it was better than the ZL-1 Block. ZL-1 had bad core shift and blowby ring seal was bad. Jenkins just didnt like that Block period.

[dykstra]

Very cool!!

[Carleen]

430

[Carleen]

Farmer

[Carleen]

1968 EXP 0-326711 430 Can Am

[bugsy]

Anyone remember the 69 nova with the can-am engine in it at mecum harrisburg a few years ago. Supposedly had yenko documentation or connection with yenko.

[L78_Nova]

MCACN 2017 (Yenko sold and installed the engine according to the invoice)

[L78_Nova]

Sorry... Yenko sold engine, Jenkins competition installed.

[John Brown]

430 Lincoln engine, was also optional in a 1959 T-bird..... 3gears.gif

And with tri-power in a 58 Mercury.

jalopyjournal.com/mel-430-super-marauder (https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/mel-430-super-marauder-question.585081/)

.

[JoeC]

the 430 Chevy engine delivered a great victory for the 1st gen Camaros

Bill Jenkins running his two year old 68 Camaro in the first ever Pro Stock final round in 1970

He made three 9 second passes and beat the 70 Sox and Martin Hemi Cuda in the final

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/rmM9shQW/Can-Am-ZL-1001.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[EZ Nova]

I wonder how that Nova ran back then??? Grumpy prepped ZL1 in that car would have been one hell of a sleeper.

[RALLY]

the 430 Chevy engine delivered a great victory for the 1st gen Camaros

Bill Jenkins running his two year old 68 Camaro in the first ever Pro Stock final round in 1970

He made three 9 second passes and beat the 70 Sox and Martin Hemi Cuda in the final

Great seeing Bill Jenkins putting that Hemi on the trailer. Love It.

[bugsy]

Sorry... Yenko sold engine, Jenkins competition installed.

Is paperwork real to the car? What would this car be worth today? Thanks

[EZ Nova]

Is paperwork real to the car? What would this car be worth today? Thanks

Probably worth between a COPO Camaro and a Yenko Camaro pricing would be my guess? Camaro are usually bring more $$$ than Nova's, and this being a Yenko SOLD Jenkins built and installed motor would be worth some. But I would think a legit Yenko Camaro would still be worth more.....

[Charley Lillard]

Has that Nova been discussed here before ?

[JoeC]

yes,

I think the transplant was done in the 1980s

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=140863&highlight=jenkins+nova

[JoeC]

1968 McLaren M8A Can-Am car I believe its the 430 Chevy in it

sounds good , revs nice


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXT92pkndeA

[L78_Nova]

The bills on the Nova are dated 82... so yes, if real, cool provenance but... I don't see it adding anything like supercar status. I don't recall the asking price at MCACN.


I was trying to post the pics of the Jenkins invoice also but something is not cooperating on this end.
Gary

[Carleen]

There was a Magazine from 69 where Joel Rosen said "The only way to fly is the 430 Can Am"
I cant find that Magazine.
Many of the top teams used Can Am Engines in M / P and Pro Stock

[TimG]

Attend a Can Am reunion at Road America and watch these cars hit 180 on the straight parts of the track. It's really fun and they have 20 or so running.

[EZ Nova]

The bills on the Nova are dated 82... so yes, if real, cool provenance but... I don't see it adding anything like supercar status. I don't recall the asking price at MCACN.


I was trying to post the pics of the Jenkins invoice also but something is not cooperating on this end.
Gary

On this Nova, I would bring like this:
K}
AVERAGE price for '69 L78 Triple black $X amount (say $78,000 {L78 and $})
Premium for originally sold at Yenko + X amount ( $5,500)
M22 + X amount ( $2,500)
Yenko '82 ZL1 conversion + X amount ( $20,000)
Grumpy worked over ZL! + X amount ( $8,000)

So right around the $115K mark + or - I would figure???? I could be high or low and people might not agree, fine I'm ok with that.

[EZ Nova]

Now back to these 430 ZL1's. Like I said, I don't see a 430 cresting 700Hp back in the early 70's?

Grumpy's '68 BEST pass for the 1970 season according to Draglist times was 9.845 and @ 3010 IF he was only 430 inches would have been 623Hp. YET most go by MPH when looking at Hp at the track. The BEST that car went in 1970 was 138.03 and @ 3010 would have been 609.9Hp.

Now the thing is, It doesn't look from all accounts the Grumpy ran the CA 430 ZL1? I not only have the magazine from July of 1970 where Grumpy built the 70 with a GM 430 inch RAT motor. So the size isn't in dispute, BUT it does say he used the GM 427 crank.

Therefore he would have the normal "052" 4.250 block ZL1 as the engine wouldn't have been 430 with the 3.75 stroke crank and 4.440 bore, more like 465 inch. There is also mentioned out there that for match racing, Grumpy would use a mountain motor and take ALL the weight out of the car. The stories I've heard was a 4.44 block and 4" 454 crank for the old 495 inch but the weight was out, so who know what that motor would have made. I seem to doubt that even Grumpy's 495 IN 1970 made 700Hp? His best match race time was 9.40's but was there 100lbs out or 200 lbs out. It wasn't 3010 legal weight to make the 700Hp.

[Carleen]

https://bruce-mclaren.com/can-am/

[JoeC]

from what I read Bill Jenkins ran a few different engines in 1970 and 1971
the articles are not always accurate so its hard to say what the engine and HP was but I have read that the 1970 and 1971 Pro Stock cars (Ford Chevy Chrysler) were over 700hp

In Super Stock and MP Bill ran the ZL1 and L88 and L72

In Pro Stock he ran the CanAm 430 engine
in match racing he ran the CanAm 494

here is a screen shot from Drag List 1971 PS Mountain (match race) Can Am 494
where Bill ran 9.265 at 141 mph

says the 1971 record was 9.265 at 149.76 mph


John Greenwood ran the ZL1 in his Corvettes for SCCA and FIA road racing
here is a quote about the #49 Corvette where they claim the Traco ZL1 was 750HP


"When it was originally converted, the #49 BFG Corvette received all the popular Greenwood innovations: adjustable suspension, above, notched rear arms, rapid replacement radiator, and quick camber adjustments. A blueprinted Chevrolet ZL1 all-aluminum 427-cubic-inch engine, producing over 750 horsepower at 6,500 rpm, was chosen to replace the factory L88. During the restoration process, the #49 car was fitted with a potent Traco 427 ZL1

Driven by John Greenwood, above, right, 1973, Bridgehampton, Dick Smothers, Bob Johnson and Don Yenko, the #49 Corvette ran in 12 & 24-hour enduro races at Daytona, Le Mans and Sebring. At Le Mans, the Traco-engined “show” Stingray was clocked at 215 mph!"

[Flying Undertaker]

Don't forget those Buick Nail Head motors...lots of torque.

-wilma

That picture shown is of the replacement 430 cu. in. 360hp Buick engine built for 1967-1969 Buicks before going to 455 Cu. in. Buick engine of the same design. It was a totally different design departure from the earlier Nail Head Buick engines.The Last year for a Nail Head Buick was 1966 at 401 cu. in. However, your statement that Buick engines had torque in spades is quite true.

[Flying Undertaker]

I doubt any production ZL1 engine got near 575 hp. We worked with Bill Porterfield back in the '90s on a ZL1 dyno comparison. With a good tune up, open headers, no AIR pump, air cleaner or alternator it did 523 hp.

http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml

Camaro High Performance has rebuilt several. With racing oil and modern rings, they see 550+hp.

I just had my '69 ZL-1 engine built by Brian Tilburg at Tilburg Racing in Trout Run, PA. All original 052 engine block that was bored .030 by previous owner. All NOS GM internals used, even .030 over GM pistons. Dynoed in Apr. 2019 (2nd pull) at 601 hp @ 6700 rpm limit that I had specified because of the age and rarity of the block. Brian said that the camshaft was still pulling hard, and had not reached its peak on the curve. He said it would have maybe 15-20hp more by 7300, as he had done several ZL-1's for NHRA Stock Eliminator AA/SA cars before. Race break-in oil and modern rings used. I have both dyno sheets. Same conditions as one stated above; good tune up, open headers, no air pump, no air cleaner or alternator!

[EZ Nova]

I just had my '69 ZL-1 engine built by Brian Tilburg at Tilburg Racing in Trout Run, PA. All original 052 engine block that was bored .030 by previous owner. All NOS GM internals used, even .030 over GM pistons. Dynoed in Apr. 2019 (2nd pull) at 601 hp @ 6700 rpm limit that I had specified because of the age and rarity of the block. Brian said that the camshaft was still pulling hard, and had not reached its peak on the curve. He said it would have maybe 15-20hp more by 7300, as he had done several ZL-1's for NHRA Stock Eliminator AA/SA cars before. Race break-in oil and modern rings used. I have both dyno sheets. Same conditions as one stated above; good tune up, open headers, no air pump, no air cleaner or alternator!

Ya you would have probably made more power 5-700RPM more. Those cam were rumored to pull well into the 7500/7800 RPM range, just not sure they were making more power or just hanging on better without the drop?

I looked at my ZL1 dyno sheet, @ 6700 I was at 785.1 Hp but it should have been higher. And you "probably" left 50 or so Hp on the table with you deal using the GM piston design and not pulling to 73/7500 range. Modern piston with 1/16 rings or better rings and not the 5/16 would have picked it up nicely too.

THEN one can look at the heads/valves and see what "could" be found there? I don't know what you did with your stuff, like better modern valve, back cut and valve job, but there is POWER there too.

[big gear head]

I have found that the dyno has a lot to do with peak numbers. I took my 427 to Dale Mears Racing and used his dyno. It would have shown another 75 HP if I had taken it to Tommy's Auto Machine and another 100 HP if I had taken it to the dyno in Evansville. Apparently there is another dyno close that would have shown about 150 more.

[Flying Undertaker]

Ya you would have probably made more power 5-700RPM more. Those cam were rumored to pull well into the 7500/7800 RPM range, just not sure they were making more power or just hanging on better without the drop?

I looked at my ZL1 dyno sheet, @ 6700 I was at 785.1 Hp but it should have been higher. And you "probably" left 50 or so Hp on the table with you deal using the GM piston design and not pulling to 73/7500 range. Modern piston with 1/16 rings or better rings and not the 5/16 would have picked it up nicely too.

THEN one can look at the heads/valves and see what "could" be found there? I don't know what you did with your stuff, like better modern valve, back cut and valve job, but there is POWER there too.

EZ Nova: That's some nice power for the ZL-1 Combo. Mine was totally stock, no headwork, ALL NOS GM factory stock internals with stock stroke and a .030 overbore. I was very happy with the results as it will be a trailer queen. If I were building one for power, I'd use a new ZL-1 block with some aftermarket heads with
headwork, pocket porting, etc., a bigger cam and a holley dominator! Don.

[Flying Undertaker]

Now back to these 430 ZL1's. Like I said, I don't see a 430 cresting 700Hp back in the early 70's?

Grumpy's '68 BEST pass for the 1970 season according to Draglist times was 9.845 and @ 3010 IF he was only 430 inches would have been 623Hp. YET most go by MPH when looking at Hp at the track. The BEST that car went in 1970 was 138.03 and @ 3010 would have been 609.9Hp.

Now the thing is, It doesn't look from all accounts the Grumpy ran the CA 430 ZL1? I not only have the magazine from July of 1970 where Grumpy built the 70 with a GM 430 inch RAT motor. So the size isn't in dispute, BUT it does say he used the GM 427 crank.

Therefore he would have the normal "052" 4.250 block ZL1 as the engine wouldn't have been 430 with the 3.75 stroke crank and 4.440 bore, more like 465 inch. There is also mentioned out there that for match racing, Grumpy would use a mountain motor and take ALL the weight out of the car. The stories I've heard was a 4.44 block and 4" 454 crank for the old 495 inch but the weight was out, so who know what that motor would have made. I seem to doubt that even Grumpy's 495 IN 1970 made 700Hp? His best match race time was 9.40's but was there 100lbs out or 200 lbs out. It wasn't 3010 legal weight to make the 700Hp.

The 430 cu.in. CanAM engine had a lot more going for it than the ZL-1 combo. The CanAm block with the siamesed cylinder walls made for a more rigid block by tying together all the bores, less block shift at high rpm. Also the 4.440 cylinder bores had the effect of unshrouding the valves just by virtue of the larger diameter bores. The short throw crankshaft of 3.47 stroke (think 350 sbc size crank) allowed a better rod length/stroke ratio of 1.768 versus a rod length/stroke ratio of 1.631 for the 3.76 stroke crank, which places the piston at the top dead center for a longer period of time than a longer stroke AND results in less side loading of the cylinder walls by the pistons to ensure cylinder block stability. Also by the shorter stroke, one can rev the motor higher as it would be in a Pro Stock car. NHRA had a 7 lb per cubic inch rule not hp rule. So theoretically, the car would weigh very little between the 427 smaller bore/long stroke and the 430 larger bore/shorter stroke combo ( 21 lbs). This reasoning was the main push behind the 430 CanAM engine combo in Pro Stock. Jenkins used the same reasoning with the '72 Vega. It was true that the 350 sbc made just a little more horsepower than the 331 sbc, but the additional weight (@ 140 lbs) it had to carry would make the combo less viable, competition-wise. I think the heads for the 430 CanAm motor used 2.30 intake valves also.

[EZ Nova]

Undertaker, funny you were mentioning ProStock! My crew chief has been involved in PS since the late 80's and there team since 1991. I also own a 498, 4.84 Borespace Pontiac 427 headed EX ProStock motor. I have personally had my hands on 3 old chevy PS engine from that era, 1 AMC and a couple of the Ford Clevends from 75 or before. Umm never a Hemi???

Anyway the shop I'm associated with built my PS 498 with 1 or 2 other back in the 90's. So we put a lot of that tech into this ZL1. You wouldn't know it with the valvecovers on and intake on.

I have seen 2.25 valve in those old motors but never really paid much attention to see IF the 2.300 would fit??? My "074" were originally done by AFR as a PS head I located off the old serial #. These were 2.25 valved. Now we did some more work to them to get them to work as good as they do. I can post some pictures if you would like to see these.

[JoeC]

found this interesting article THE HISTORY OF MOUNTAIN MOTOR PRO STOCK


The article says ...

“In those early days it was really hard to find the blocks, so you did whatever you could to make the engines bigger,” Leonard said. “The camshafts – you’d put more stroke into it and your rods would hit the camshafts. It was a headache.”

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/19695-the-history-of-mountain-motor-pro-stock

[Carleen]

Heavy also had CanAm Engines

[Vortecpro]

I'm not an expert on the 1970 NHRA rules but read that 1970 Pro Stock was run on 7 HP per pound so the 430 Chevy could run in a 3010 lb Camaro.

by 1971 they were going into the mid 9s in NHRA Pro Stock so were making pretty good power on gas with tunnel ram 2x4bbs

the online ET-MPH-HP calculator says " Your HP is 693.88 computed from your vehicle weight of 3010 pounds and ET of 9.50 seconds"

The 430 CamAm engines were making good power also here is a youtube vid
Dyno Testing - 1973 McLaren Can-Am Big Block Chevy
where it pulls 750hp

They don't say if its a 430, 465, or 495 cu in engine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=101&v=v6dMJ5L6G2c&feature=emb_logo

I don't know what MPH a 430 inch Pro Stock ran back in the day, but HP is calculated by MPH over 1320 feet, and 139 MPH for example is 622 HP @ 3010 pounds. I would find it very hard to believe 1970 Pro stocks made over 700 HP on todays dynos, but the tunnel ram does help.


Although, 149.7 is over 770 observed crankshaft HP @ 3010, based on the information on page 4. Typically a A/S 375 HP 396 makes 620s for HP on my dyno, can run 9.80s @ 3450 @ 135 MPH. So a factory ZL1 making 601 seems very reasonable to me, although I'd like to see the 7300 RPM peak myself, seeing the 375 HP stocker peaks just under 7000 RPM but is run to 7800 RPM plus.

[JoeC]

the NHRA Pro Stock records are

1970 144.48 mph

1971 146.10 mph

1972 149.50 mph

I put 700 hp and 3010 lbs in the calculator and came back with ...
Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 3010 pounds and HP of 700 is 9.47 seconds and MPH of 142.68 MPH.

[Vortecpro]

That picture shown is of the replacement 430 cu. in. 360hp Buick engine built for 1967-1969 Buicks before going to 455 Cu. in. Buick engine of the same design. It was a totally different design departure from the earlier Nail Head Buick engines.The Last year for a Nail Head Buick was 1966 at 401 cu. in. However, your statement that Buick engines had torque in spades is quite true.

TQ.......does not win drag races, hi RPM HP wins drag races................Example

https://youtu.be/YvEwFnPx8rs

[Vortecpro]

the NHRA Pro Stock records are

1970 144.48 mph

1971 146.10 mph

1972 149.50 mph

I put 700 hp and 3010 lbs in the calculator and came back with ...
Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 3010 pounds and HP of 700 is 9.47 seconds and MPH of 142.68 MPH.
The question is are you using the right calculator? You can't go wrong with the Moroso power speed calculator, lines right up with my dyno/track testing.
Take a look at this MPH calculator its close. http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php


I get 707 HP for 145 MPH @ 3010, big power back in 1970!

[EZ Nova]

Joe and Mark, one main issue is that the MMPS and "Match races" were not at 3000+ lbs? They took the weights out, used bigger engines and ran them! This why the 1970 times were 9.90 or there abouts and the Match racers were around 9.40's.

Don't forget that most of the cars in 72 were small blocks and lighter, not the 3000+ lbs like the 70/71 years.

So to use the 144+ MPH is NOT the 427430 inch motors? These were the match race 490/500+ inchers that ran light.

Just putting the MPH/Weight ratio into prospective.

[JoeC]

DragList shows numbers for "Pro Stock Classic" with a 430 cu in limit and "Pro Stock Mountain" with a 500 cu in limit

I was using the record numbers for PS Classic


example for 1971 they show ...

PS Classic 1971 Records: 1/4 Mile: 9.485 ET, 146.10 MPH

PS Mountain 1971 Records: 1/4 Mile: 9.265 ET, 149.76 MPH

[JoeC]

its difficult to keep track of all the rules as they changed them a few times

here is a one quote ...

"In 1982, the NHRA did away with the weight break system and implemented a 2,350 pound minimum weight, 500 cubic inch maximum rule across the board, due to the popularity of the Mountain Motor IHRA Pro Stock cars, which have unlimited displacement."


I remember reading that the engine displacement was well over 500 cu in with the tall deck blocks. At one time they called them "car blocks" and "truck blocks" and the tall deck blocks had to carry a 100 pound weight penalty

in 1972 some people were still running 1969 Camaros as you can run a car up to 3 years old

[RobR]

TQ.......does not win drag races, hi RPM HP wins drag races................Example

https://youtu.be/YvEwFnPx8rs

Is that Kip Martin in the mustang? If so he was one of the very best with Ford engines. Years ago he could wring out the horsepower on a 352FE like no other.

[big gear head]

I know a guy who has one of these Can Am engines. The block is damaged, but it might be worth looking into. I didn't know that they has a special crank in them. I need to look him up and see if I can buy it.

[JoeC]

here is something I found online ...... quote

Doug Meyer Shadow team engine builder
I was an engine builder for the UOP Shadow Team from 72 through 75 and built these engines almost exclusively. Engines I assembled were driven by Jackie Oliver, George Follmer, Vic Elford, James Hunt and Peter Revson. I was trained on them by Lee Muir who came to Shadow directly from McLaren. I've got loads of photos and, if I dig deep enough I can probably dig up my track/tuning notes.

In the early Can Am years only three teams had the Reynolds Aluminum blocks. McLAren, Shadow, and Chapparral. Later they became more common, but most of the teams didn't use the all-aluminum 390 blocks, but iron sleeved castings. All were Lucas injected.
McLAren did their own porting, as did we. The usual well known California head guys did most of the rest.

We rarely built 510's, almost always 495's. Race trim hp was about 735 with flat tappets. We bult some roller tappet that did about 775 hp. In '73 we built a 1200 hp turbo 495 (I could change those head gaskets in my sleep!) to compete with the 917K. We were faster at Laguna Seca but ran out of brakes. Vic Elford was driving- Donohue came over to Lee and I after the race and told us he'd NEVER seen anything accelerate up the hill like that beast. THe tires on that car were 24 inches wide and it would leave giant blackies all the way up the hill. I've built lots of engines but those are still my favorite. Nothing in motorsports sounds like 20 of those things at the green. I'll never forget it.


We got our parts directly from GM racing. The sleeveless blocks were all Reynolds since Reynolds was the developer of the high Silicon 390 alloy/iron plated piston technology. Could be that the sleeved blocks they got were Alcoa castings.


GM #'s
3992038..Block, 4.44 bore AL W/Liners

3993803..C/Shaft, 3.47 stroke

3963642..Rod, connecting 6.405 C/C

3992042..Sleeve, cyl liner (for 430 AL)

[EZ Nova]

Joe, thanks for bring this info out. I see around the internet you have been doing that for a while now.

Do you know if any of the alum YENKO crested blocks we siamesed and 4.440 bore? I think they were all standard style wet blocks.

[JoeC]

Joe, thanks for bring this info out. I see around the internet you have been doing that for a while now.

Do you know if any of the alum YENKO crested blocks we siamesed and 4.440 bore? I think they were all standard style wet blocks.

I don't know if the YENKO crested blocks were the CanAm blocks

I have seen a few different Yenko blocks , some have the Yenko crest cast in, some have the letters "YENKO" cast in , some were hand stamped

[Carleen]

Mike Fons had 430 Can Am Engine
Cars Magazine March 1970

[Carleen]

Draglist Mike Fons
Notes: Won the Popular Hot Rodding meet at Martin, Mich., with a 10.16 to 10.08 holeshot over Dick Oldfield. Ran 10.11 at Edgewater. | Fons had one of the strongest Chevy P/S cars in '70. Few Chevys could keep up with the domination of the Mopar Hemis in the first year of the class. Mike had one of them. At Beeline for the AHRA Winternationals, Mike beat the Camaros of Ray Sullins and Wally Booth in the first two rounds before meeting up with the Mopar of Dick Humbert. A 10.40 dispatched him and moved him into the final against Ronnie Sox. There was really no contest as Sox was about four tenths faster and in the final Fons' 10.54 finished far behind Ronnie's 10.08. Things got a little closer at Pomona for the NHRA Winternationals. There a 10.21 qualified #6 and he was now only two tenths behind Sox who qualified first with a 10.00. He lasted until round two before losing to the eventual winner Bill Jenkins in another Camaro. A week after the Winternationals, OCIR held its Pro Stock Championships. Unfortunately, Fons lost to Sox in the first round. His times continued to drop but so did everyone else’s. At the NHRA Gatornationals, his 10.14 qualified #11 and he improved to 10.09 in the first round but it wasn't enough to beat Don Carlton's 10.08. He was at Rockingham for the AHRA Pro-Am Championships where he beat Eddie Schartman in the first round before losing to Dave Strickler's 10.05 in round two with a 10.31. | Best known NHRA speed 135.33.

[EZ Nova]

Joe, the Yenko blocks to me would either be the crest of the raised letter YENKO. A stamped block I wouldn't trust.

Carleen, Those are about the ET I thought they were running on'70.

Here is some more info and cast #'s too

https://www.thesupercarregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109810