Jack Douglas double COPO

[ssl78]

I talked to a guy yesterday that said he was an original owner of a fathom green 4 speed Copo he bought from Jack Douglas. He sold it around 1973 and it ended up in Wesmont. The wierd thing is most Douglas ordered cars had vinyl tops, rosewood wheels, endura bumper, tach and center fuel gauge chamber exhaust but he said this car only had the tach and center fuel gauge. I was wondering if this car stills exists?

[Timm]

I think I owned the car few years back. I posted info on the car here in the past. I spoke with the second owner and he sent me photos of the car from when he owned it, if this is the same car. It was one of the first cars on the load sent to Jack. The second owner was very young at the time 17 I think his name was Randy Barone, He still lives in Chicago area. Ask original owner if he has the vin number and we can verify it?

[Timm]

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125841

[ssl78]

That was the other strange thing he said he bought it late in 68. That does not make sense since Douglas didnt even get the first batch of Yenkos then. He also said there were 9 of them lined up when he bought his. He is supposed to get with me with the vin number. I just went to the thread you posted this was not a Yenko it was a double copo with D90 stripes

[Timm]

Ahh its a different car then

[wheelhop]

I have met Randy Barone and still may be able to get in touch with him if needed.

[bbbentley]

If it had a center fuel gauge it could not have been bought in 68. Previous owner has a memory lapse. That center fuel gauge did not come along till around May 69

[ssl78]

I told him it had to be in early spring since most the Douglas ordered Yenkos didnt come in until may or June.

[William]

The only COPO Camaros built during calendar year 1968 were the first two ZL1 Camaros, final-assembled December 30.

The earliest known factory-built ZL2 car was a Z/28 built December 27th at Van Nuys. Earliest known L72 Camaro engines are dated January 3, 1969. Earliest known COPO 9561 Camaros were built 2nd week January, 1969.

No evidence to support a "late in 68" delivery.

[Unreal]

I know the story of the Yenko/Jack Douglass rift, but are there any known examples of non-Yenko (Yenko with asterisk, for some) Douglass double COPOs?

[ssl78]

This one seems like it might be one we will have to see when he gets back to me with the vin. I do not believe there is another one that wasnt within the body numbers of the asterick cars.

[nova67]

John....what about the the Black on Black Copo purchased new by Larry Marchetti in Elmwood Park out of Brigance? Has anyone ever got any info on that car? I asked all the car guys in that area and no one seems to know what happened to it. I know he bought a new 70 Z blk on blk automatic out of Brigance.

[ssl78]

I actually forgot about that car but I believe there are 2 black Brigance Copos still around one Mike Pisek (sp) bought new and another one that might be Larrys car. Do you remember when he sold it?

[nova67]

John .....I know he had it thru the winter of 69 and was never driven it just sat on the street covered in snow and he would start it periodically but never moved. I'm thinking he bought the 70 Z new in the spring or summer of 70. Being the 70 Camaro was a late production arrival. I know the Copo was a 4spd no console but I dont know anything else about it.

[William]

I know the story of the Yenko/Jack Douglass rift, but are there any known examples of non-Yenko (Yenko with asterisk, for some) Douglass double COPOs?

To clarify, Jack Douglass Chev was a Yenko franchisee for '69 and initially received cars directly from Yenko Sportscars, Inc. These are accepted as Yenkos and appear on Yenko's inventory sheets.

Later in the model year, Douglass learned of the COPOs and ordered cars directly from Chevrolet. These cars are not on Yenko inventory sheets and are sometimes referred to as 'Dougkos'. Maybe 20 cars with body numbers in the 3034xx range. Most if not all seem to have been badged and striped as Yenkos.

At least 10 still exist; two of them are white with black vinyl tops. None of the 'Canonsburg' Yenkos were white.

[ssl78]

Tom if I remember right Larrys COPO sat on Fullerton ave is that right

[nova67]

John... around 79th and Fullerton it sat on the side street back end visible from Fullerton.

[ssl78]

Thats right I do remember it now forgot all about that car. I used to stop and look at it all the time. Did he go to Elmwood park high was he a lot older than us

[ssl78]

I found Larrys car John Karvonen in Michigan has it. His car is definetly the car was bought in fall of 70 at a dealer in Chicago area and is a Brigance car

[302moz]

Wow That’s awesome someone remembers the black copo. I know the history from the fall of 70 until I purchased it . The first owner only had it for a year. The second owner for around five years and third until 2015. So I am the fourth owner.

[z28s4mjg]

Hi, it looks like there some of you on this thread that know about Brigance Chevrolet. I own a 1967 Z28 that was purchased at Brigance. It is gold with black stripes and so far it is the only 67 Z28 from Brigance known to still exist. Any help would be greatly appreciated

[Unreal]

To clarify, Jack Douglass Chev was a Yenko franchisee for '69 and initially received cars directly from Yenko Sportscars, Inc. These are accepted as Yenkos and appear on Yenko's inventory sheets.

Later in the model year, Douglass learned of the COPOs and ordered cars directly from Chevrolet. These cars are not on Yenko inventory sheets and are sometimes referred to as 'Dougkos'. Maybe 20 cars with body numbers in the 3034xx range. Most if not all seem to have been badged and striped as Yenkos.

At least 10 still exist; two of them are white with black vinyl tops. None of the 'Canonsburg' Yenkos were white.

Thanks William, the rift I was referring to was when Douglass learned that 1969 Yenko Sports Cars were simply COPOs with Yenko stripes and badges, and he tried to order the stripes and badges through Yenko's catalog to badge them himself. I know Don and Douglass agreed to pay a royalty for Douglass-prepared Yenkos. But did Douglass also sell stock double COPOs without the Yenko stripes/badges, and circumvent their agreement with Yenko?

[ssl78]

When Jack ordered the double COPOs he had no intention of putting stripes and badges on them. He only did it because Don and Jack got in a argument when Don found out he ordered them and he agreed he would pay for stripes and emblems. Some cars were not striped but all seem to have the emblems but in a different placement of regular Yenkos

[PeteLeathersac]

'

One FG Douglass car from the first batch was 124379N578878 BDY 202456, thread from '02 still alive here...
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=71700
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[Unreal]

When Jack ordered the double COPOs he had no intention of putting stripes and badges on them. He only did it because Don and Jack got in a argument when Don found out he ordered them and he agreed he would pay for stripes and emblems. Some cars were not striped but all seem to have the emblems but in a different placement of regular Yenkos

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the story was that Yenko shipped some YSC Camaros from Cannonsburg, but failed to remove the shipper. Someone at Douglass found it and figured out Yenko was no longer building Super Cars, but buying COPOs and just adding stripes/badges. Douglass ordered some COPOs and then ordered a bunch of stripes and badges through Yenko's performance catalog. Don found out and jumped in his private plane for a nose to nose with Jack. I thought that was when they agreed to a royalty payment to Yenko for Douglass-built Yenkos.

[Mr70]

On a side note,were Dons sYc emblems & stripes available over the counter to the public from Dons Dealership back then?
If so,what would prevent a guy from say buying a Copo through BERGER in Michigan,then ordering & applying Dons sYc emblems & stripes on it?
Would Don want a nose to nose with that guy?

[ssl78]

You are right until you said he wanted to sell them as Yenkos he was going to sell them as copos but since he had a deal with Don to sell his Yenkos thats were the problem was. Then Don and Jack made a deal were he would purchase stipes and emblems and sell them as Yenkos.

[Kurt S]

Correct.

[Unreal]

Thanks for the clarification. So per the greement with Yenko, all Jack Douglass COPOs were sold as Yenkos. Wonder if he lived up to the agreement.

[ssl78]

It looks like all had the emblems not all had stripes. I think they were delivered with the D90 stripe so he had to repaint the fenders to put the stripes on.

[William]

I think Jack Douglass was trying to badge & stripe the COPOs he acquired directly from Chevrolet as Yenkos. That's where the conflict arose. By June, Yenko had dozens of COPOs none of his franchise dealerships wanted because they were also stuck with them. Along with at least 110 other Chevrolet dealerships, Douglass was entitled to acquire 427 cars direct from Chevrolet and sell them. Just not as Yenkos.

I believe Gibb and Yenko went into the COPO programs believing they had exclusive rights to 9560/9561/9737. Yenko stated he had to pay a fee to Chevy for the COPO.

Misled, misunderstood, who knows. Probably a money loser for both.

[JoeC]

The way I remember it , the problem came up when Jack Douglass tried to order sets of replacement stripes and emblems from Yenko

Yenko ordered all the 1968 COPO 9737 Camaros as far as I know he received them all although at least one was sold new by another Chevy Dealer in PA.

Fred Gibb ordered all 50 of the 1968 COPO 9738 Chevy IIs to make them legal for NHRA

Things changed in 1969 as the other dealers wanted to order 427 COPO Camaros and Chevelles

In the MCR interview, Don said he had to pay to warranty the 427 COPO cars and said it turned out to be cheaper for him in the long run.

[Kurt S]

Well, if someone can dig up the original post by the Clary's, it includes the information from the Yenko files...

[Stefano]

We spent quite a bit of time discussing the JD subject and hashing it out on this public forum many years ago. I had the opportunity to speak directly to many involved with the subject, over the years. Several noted authors had also spoken to Jack while he was still alive in order to get the scoop from the "horses mouth". In my opinion there is some missleading speculation.

Jack was the youngest Chevrolet Dealer ever at that time. He inherited the Dealership from his father, who was I believe a retired GM engineer or exec.

There was no intent for him to try and pull one over on Don. While Jack knew Don from some of the road racing events, it was Jim Spencer of Span Inc, who signed Jack up to be a Yenko Network Dealer (also a road racer).

While Jack was not directly lied to, he was lead to believe, that the 1969 Yenkos were being built, to include the 427 /L72s by Yenko Chevrolet.

Jack had remembered the meeting being in the late Summer, early Fall of 1968, so maybe COPO 9561 had not been ironed out quite yet. Upon recieving the first truck load from Yenko/Canonsburg he discovered that he could order such cars himself as there is a financial interest to do so. (known as hold back and turn and earn credits).

Yenko did not have stripe kits available for sale over the counter when Jack placed his direct order as it was placed soon after recieving his first shipment. (Just didn't materialize until months later) Not many people in Chicago Land knew who Don Yenko was or really anything about him. "Yenko" desirability did not usually out do the "427-L72" option, to the original owners I have comunicated with, back then.

Jack recalled the 24 maybe 25 Camaros he ordered this way: Once he determined that he could order cars himself per the Yenko Blue print he ordered 4 cars of each Yenko color. So that is 24 cars. He placed the order within days of his discovering the COPO options. The day after he placed the order (IBM punch cards) his GM / Tom Dumas suggested that they add additional options and colors to their order and the changes were submitted. He could not recall the exact color break down and since Tom always drove a Black Demo, they both recalled having ordered at least one in black, but did not reacall if the black car replaced one of the 24 or was added to the total.

Someone from GM must have contacted Don and let him know that Jack had discovered how to place a direct order and Don Yenko called Jack soon thereafter. Jack's own words were that they had a "very heated discussion" (this is where there is varying opinion). This in large part because Jack thought that he had been cheated/misrepresented. The direct ordered cars were not even built yet and wouldn't even show up for months later.

This telephone conversation is when Don and Jack hashed out an agreement to sell the direct order cars as Yenkos and pay a royalty to Yenko, which included getting stripes and badges from him.


I believe the Yenko Estate document Kurt is referring to mentions 22 COPOs

12 of the 24 subject cars have been accounted for.

Automatic and Manuals have been found

Additional options have been noted

Both Vinyl Top and non Vinyl

All thus far have been X11 D80 in close body number sequence

Endura Bumpers have been documented on many of the found COPOs ( Jack stated that all had endura as Dumas was a big fan)

Not all recieved Yenko stripes and/or badges

The original paint COPOs found without Yenko stripes have style trim pinstripes.

One original owner, who opted out of the Yenko stripes had D90 stripes applied at the dealership, but also already had Yenko Badges.

With only approx 1/2 accounted for it will be interesting to see what else gets discovered over time.

[mssl72]

So, what were the additional colors that Jack Douglas ordered?

[Stefano]

Two Dover White Black vinyl top cars with consecutive body numbers have been accounted for. The Black JD Yenko is just urban legend at this point but both of the Key people, GM and owner say that they had ordered at least one. I believe that 5 or 6 of the found cars are Daytona Yellow.

[Kurt S]

Thank you for the summation!
The timeline details were very helpful.

[JoeC]

The Jack Douglas version of the story may be a little different then the Don Yenko version.

Hard to say what happened in 1969 but there are some things that both sides agree on.

Jack bought Yenko Camaros and was a Yenko Sportscar Dealer

Jack bought 427 COPO cars from GM after buying Yenko Super Camaros

There was a disagreement

In the end Jack Douglas agreed to buy the Yenko Stripes and emblems and install them on some of his 427 COPO cars.

Some people like the Yenko stripes, some don't but they helped sell the cars in 1969 and still do today.

Donna Mae Mims called me in 2004 when she was working on Don's application to the Corvette Hall of Fame.

I had purchased a lot of items from the Yenko Estate on the Yenko Gulf Oil Corvette racing team and the Corvette Museum wanted detailed information about Don's Corvette racing achievements.

In our phone conversations , I asked Donna Mae about some of the Yenko Chevrolet stories that she had told over the years. One was the story that Don had a phone conversation with JD that resulted in Don stating he will fly to Hinsdale and "punch Jack in the face" .
DMM did like to tell colorful stories about Yenko so who knows if those were the exact words used but both sides agree there was a heated phone call with Don and Jack.

here are some items from another Yenko Douglas discussion

[bergy]

You guys are an amazing repository of Yenko information. Thanks for all that you have done for our hobby!

[copo69]

The X11 pinstripes that weren't on original paint Yenko striped cars, did they come without the pinstripes from the factory or did Douglas remove them? I guess what I'm asking is was there a way to delete the pinstripes?

[mssl72]

Two Dover White Black vinyl top cars with consecutive body numbers have been accounted for. The Black JD Yenko is just urban legend at this point but both of the Key people, GM and owner say that they had ordered at least one. I believe that 5 or 6 of the found cars are Daytona Yellow.

Is there even a chance that there could've been a Burgundy JD Yenko?

[Stefano]

The X11 pinstripes that weren't on original paint Yenko striped cars, did they come without the pinstripes from the factory or did Douglas remove them? I guess what I'm asking is was there a way to delete the pinstripes?

They did have the pinstripes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UHMR9AnVJs

[Stefano]

Is there even a chance that there could've been a Burgundy JD Yenko?

I would say that any stock color could be a possibility, once they deviated from the 6, 1969 Yenko Camaro Colors. There has been some folklore about a Black one, but have never heard anything about any other non std Yenko Color, other than the two discussed.

[ssl78]

Here is a picture of my white Douglas Yenko about a year old. If you look close you can see the Yenko emblems above the Camaro emblem, its kinda of tough to see if it had the pinstripes, but if its blown up and you look in the front it sure does look like it did

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Sure love to see/hear more anything of any Douglass Copos delivered new without Yenko striping!
Is it absolute Douglass bothered w/ the sYc headrests when Yenko striping their Copo orders/any known cars without?:hmmm:
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[JoeC]

I know Byrne Brothers Chevrolet was a Yenko Sportscar Dealer and also sold direct order 427 COPO cars.

I spoke with the parts dept manger from Byrne Bro a few times and asked a lot of questions. He never mentioned any problems with selling the 1969 Yenko line and selling direct order 427 COPO cars although that was not one of my questions.


any other dealers known to have sold both 1969 Yenkos and direct order 427 COPO cars?

Some like Scuncio sold 427 COPOs and the 1970 Yenkos but not the 69 Yenkos