COPO 9561 427 Motors

[Leonard]

Question: Can someone explain to me why there would be a A-22-9 casting date on the Iron 427 block in a 69 COPO Camaro that is original to the car and car was built in 9 (Sept) of 1969 ? I have seen 3 69 COPO Iron 427 Camaros built in Sept 69 with the original engine and with original docs and with the Jan 22 1969 casting date on block. Very late production cars.

[m22mike]

Very common to see on late cars.

[Leonard]

Trying to understand why. Why the earlier built COPOs had used later produced cast blocks?

[L72copocamaro]

Probably because the engines were built in batches and sitting in que waiting for the next copo order. I doubt any engines were organized by date and line workers just grabbed the easiest available in line most likely. Just speculation on my part and some of the ex GM members here might have a better explanation.

[m22mike]

Sounds about right. Being a very limited use engine there was no need for them to be cast that often.

[R68GTO]

As the owner of a late 69 COPO it would be interesting to understand this. I'm not sure when the 1st run of L72's were cast but I would have to believe that the Jan 22 1969 cast date would be one of the early cast dates. COPOs weren't sold to the public until January correct (built late Dec. 68)?
There's always a chance that Tonowanda "lost" a rack of completed L72 (3 to a rack) engines in Q1 but found them later for those Sept. built cars? Or Tonowanda lost a batch of early cast blocks and never assembled them until they were needed for the Sept. cars?
Leonard, on those 3 COPOs was the stamped engine assembly date more in line with the Sept. car build? If that is the case, it would point to a batch of castings that were bypassed at Tonowanda.
Would be interesting to know of the 260ish known iron block cars in the Registry, how many have original engines and what the cast & assembly dates are for those cars.

[Leonard]

Yes, the stamped assembly dates on all 3 cars was in line for the Sept build.

[RALLY]

Probably because the engines were built in batches and sitting in que waiting for the next copo order. I doubt any engines were organized by date and line workers just grabbed the easiest available in line most likely. Just speculation on my part and some of the ex GM members here might have a better explanation.

Agree here. Yes cast and built in batches and waiting. Great points.

[Vern B]

Mine was assembled in January and build date of car was 4C. I was curious also and one year at the Camaro Nationals in Niagara Falls Fran Preve and another gentleman, an engineer at Tonawanda spoke to the group. I have his card somewhere, but can’t remember his name. He had taken it upon himself to keep records on numbers of the various engines built at Tonawanda. I believe he was the source of the 1015 L72’s built at Tonawanda that floated around for years. I asked him the building/assembly date question because of my car and he said that was perfectly normal. In the December/January time frame they had no idea how many L72’s they would need, so they made a sizeable run. When an engine was needed there was no first in first out system, it was ship what was easiest to get to.

[R68GTO]

Is it correct that Tonowanda applied the month/day stamp once they completed the engine assembly? If so, then the big spread between cast date and car build date would have to be related to no "first in/first out" of the bare cast blocks vs completed engines waiting for orders. Or am I missing something?

[Woj]

My COPO engine was cast Jan 8, 1969; assembled 04/10/69; put into a 6B Baltimore car. A six month span from casting to car installation.

[William]

The original agreement with Yenko Sportscars Inc called for 350 COPO 9561 Camaros, probably to be built 1Q 1969. Suppliers of components would have been provided that information for their production planning. When COPOs proved to be much slower selling than anticipated, Yenko delayed subsequent orders creating excessive WIP inventory at suppliers.

Tonawanda foundry was one of them. No one wants raw castings sitting around for 90 days.

[Leonard]

Just find it odd that there are quite a few 1969 9561 COPO Camaros that claim to have original engines with a 03 (March)of 1969 cast date on blocks that were built prior to Sept of 1969 when finding some cars built Sept of 69 have a January of 1969 cast date on block.

[jdv69z]

I wonder how many casting dates there are for COPO blocks. Maybe most or all of the were cast either in Jan or March.

[WorkinProgress]

I have a 3955270 COPO MN engine cast I-4-8 which I think translates into Sept 4, 1968.

Block was stamped T0122MN and was installed around second week of April.

I think the VIN is N639383, but it is hard to tell if the threes are eights.

I think I read in someones book, they say all COPO's had '512 blocks. Well, here is the exception. Goes to show anything is possible.


- Warren

[bergy]

casting inventory at Tonawanda was generally FILO. The balance of the unmachined early foundry run was placed in rough casting inventory either between the plants or out in the yard. It was common for pallets of slow moving castings to get buried behind other inventory and frozen in place (Buffalo winters). The rough casting inventory would be organized and counted at physical inventory time and put back into inventory flow.

I don't recall how the motor plant would store machined blocks, but at least some must have been FILO too. I had a 9561 car with POP showing January assembled engine in an 05E car.

[jeremy clark]

I also have a COPO with a 3955270 block. It has the exact same casting date AND assembly date as Warren's. My car was assembled 03D 69 and he says his car was assembled 2nd week of April 69. I know my car's (not my car, i'm just restoring it) entire history and it's extremely original. I have talked to all of the car's previous owners. It has 29,000 miles and was wrecked in or around 1977 and put away complete. it was never disassembled until it came to us for restoration. Anyone else have a COPO with a 3955270 block?

[Stefano]

Yes:FILO

[mprice]

I have owned at least one copo camaro thats original motor is a 270 casting. If I remember correctly it was a 05A car. I know it was the original motor because it was found in another car in the area with the matching vin for the copo.