Get Ready To Plug in Or Unplug?

[ZiggyL78]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/climate/california-ban-gas-cars.html

[70 copo]

The thread "EPA seeks to prohibit race cars" down in the lounge started back in 2016 became a good place for links to reporting on all the pending ban talk on the internal combustion engine back when it was initially just the federal Government pushing for it through the EPA domestically.

Here is an Interesting article originally posted on page 1 of that thread that was written way back in 2009:

https://www.motorists.org/blog/will-old-cars-eventually-be-banned/

[markinnaples]

Kind of ironic that one of the main birthplaces of hot rodding is the first to go all electric.

[Lee Stewart]

So what happens if the current governor is voted out of office and the new governor decides an all electric car future for CA just isn't possible?

[70 copo]

Kind of ironic that one of the main birthplaces of hot rodding is the first to go all electric.

California cannot even keep its current electric commitments given the rolling black outs.

The infrastructure and technology to go electric is and remains the primary issue.

[Crossbreed383]

So where do these Parrot brains think the infrastructure comes from to produce and keep charged these vehicles batteries in the 1st place ??? ;)

[Lee Stewart]

So where do these Parrot brains think the infrastructure comes from to produce and keep charged these vehicles batteries in the 1st place ??? ;)

https://i.postimg.cc/15C6J9zB/potogold2-1200x801.jpg (https://postimg.cc/LnPnsFLg)

[Charley Lillard]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a34115628/tesla-model-s-plaid-specs-acceleration-range/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_rdt&utm_medium=email&date=092320&utm_campaign=nl21517484&utm_term=AAA%20--%20High%20Minus%20Dormant%20and%2090%20Day%20Non%2 0Openers

[62sedan]

Supposition - - - - Before too long, will it become known to the State of California that electric vehicles can or will cause cancer and/or birth defects or other reproductive harm...... just like most all other products and some foods do according to their investigations??

[Charley Lillard]

On a self centered side...In 15 years I'll be 82 and if I live that long and won't really care. In the mean time the automakers are going full steam ahead and I'm sure batteries, charging, range etc will also progress at a breakneck pace. I love the upcoming performance EV's in the pipeline.

[purple panther]

i wouldnt start sweating. no chance

[Mr70]

.....I'm trying to imagine an 82 year old Charley.

[70 copo]

So where do these Parrot brains think the infrastructure comes from to produce and keep charged these vehicles batteries in the 1st place ??? ;)

Green new deal or UN Agenda 2030

The same outcome GM has bet the company on with the announced plan to move to all electric by 2024.

Specifically who? The Taxpayer.

[67since67]

Supposition - - - - Before too long, will it become known to the State of California that electric vehicles can or will cause cancer and/or birth defects or other reproductive harm...... just like most all other products and some foods do according to their investigations??

With some added/modified verbiage, the sticker already exists to protect Californians from them selves.

This was on the driver's door glass of a car I recently purchased from a San Jose franchised dealer.

[markinnaples]

70 copo, you're right, it's *always* the taxpayer, always.

[60sStuff]

In 15 years I’ll be 81 and won’t care.

So in a EV will there be an app to pipe in the sound of a rumbling exhaust thru the stereo like my current Muscle cars have ?

Chris.

[AnthonyS]

^ the new Porsche Taycan does emit ICE sounds.

[427TJ]

My great grandpappy never got over putting his trusty horse out to pasture but he sure did learn to love his Model T.

[Astock]

California cannot even keep its current electric commitments given the rolling black outs.

The infrastructure and technology to go electric is and remains the primary issue.

Never noticed an increase in our electric bill. Turn on one of the two commercial a/c units on the roof just for a couple days, and it pops us up to the next tier of electric use.

We have two BMW i3's and I would never go back to gas if I had to pick.

I've been driving my wife's i3 while she's in Ohio, and I'm now hooked. I drive it full bore 80% of the time.
Because it's green, I feel privileged to speed. If you steer the car using the crazy amount of torque, it's a blast. Most of the car is made of carbon fiber and weighs in at 2900 lbs.

I paid $9,200 for my daughter's i3, with under 60,000 miles. High tech car, with side, front, and back sensors, along with one pedal driving. Great for a first time driver like my daughter here in S.Ca.

[Billohio]

I am 35 minutes northwest of Columbus Ohio. We have been getting letters from companies wanting to put solar panels on our fields. Some farmers have shown interest, I am sure my dad would never do it. It does pay good from what I have heard but so far they are just wanting to lock up ground in case they decided to build.
This would be needed for the Green deal to work, but you should hear the back lash from non farmers who dont want to lose being able to see farm ground. There are already groups forming to find a way to keep this from happening by zoning or other ways.
The problem is for those that would not lease for solar panels, there were be even more competition for what ground is left and that will just raise costs. It really doesnt look good for any of us

[60sStuff]

Yup, the world always needs change and upgrades just like the automobile.

We will always need to mix Old with New.

I’ll stick with my Old.

Fill-er-up please.

CT.

[ZiggyL78]

This is a big issue for our farmers. It's worth the time to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55-jBCjtJ88

[70 copo]

Never noticed an increase in our electric bill. Turn on one of the two commercial a/c units on the roof just for a couple days, and it pops us up to the next tier of electric use.

We have two BMW i3's and I would never go back to gas if I had to pick.

I've been driving my wife's i3 while she's in Ohio, and I'm now hooked. I drive it full bore 80% of the time.
Because it's green, I feel privileged to speed. If you steer the car using the crazy amount of torque, it's a blast. Most of the car is made of carbon fiber and weighs in at 2900 lbs.

I paid $9,200 for my daughter's i3, with under 60,000 miles. High tech car, with side, front, and back sensors, along with one pedal driving. Great for a first time driver like my daughter here in S.Ca.

It is not you specifically.

In order to transition to a green economy with electric car ownership the infrastructure will need to be replaced nationwide.

Average house has 100 amp service at the box. Fast charger technology requires 200 amp minimum. Once the breaker boxes are upgraded then the transmission capacity at the street and the grid becomes completely and utterly substandard.

The stated solution for the last 30 years is to press for high speed trains and other forms of mass transit to deal with the problem.

The "problem" as viewed by the planners is that people want to drive.

[Lynn]

"Average house has 100 amp service at the box. Fast charger technology requires 200 amp minimum. Once the breaker boxes are upgraded then the transmission capacity at the street and the grid becomes completely and utterly substandard."

I agree with the premise that we are ill suited to make the transition to ALL electric in short order. The folks pushing for all electric vehicles have not thought through how we are going to produce so much more than we have now. The transition will need to be more gradual. Personally, I believe the transition can be made easily using plug in hybrids. That is what is working for us.

Having said that, 99% of the time, the average consumer will not need to upgrade the home service. We plug Sherri's Ioinic in when we get home from work; into a regular 120 household outlet. It charges overnight. The fast charge technology NORMALLY is only needed on trips.

[70 copo]

I am 35 minutes northwest of Columbus Ohio. We have been getting letters from companies wanting to put solar panels on our fields. Some farmers have shown interest, I am sure my dad would never do it. It does pay good from what I have heard but so far they are just wanting to lock up ground in case they decided to build.
This would be needed for the Green deal to work, but you should hear the back lash from non farmers who dont want to lose being able to see farm ground. There are already groups forming to find a way to keep this from happening by zoning or other ways.
The problem is for those that would not lease for solar panels, there were be even more competition for what ground is left and that will just raise costs. It really doesnt look good for any of us

This is the outcome of SB-6. This legislation bailed out the two nuclear power plants on Lake Erie that were and are getting killed by cheap shale gas (electric) and coal.

The Democrats wanted a clean energy subsidy incorporated into SB-6 and they got it in the form of legislation for solar tax caps and millions in government seed money to start up solar farms.

This is a deal that nobody wanted except the politicians and the solar companies that were set to feed $$$ at the taxpayers expense.

A solar farm should have to pay taxes like the rest of us, and should have the same operational risks and economic risks as any other business.

[70 copo]

I know quite a bit about the solar farm issue as to date my neighbors and I have been successful in blocking an 800 acre solar farm that is planned right down the street.

[427TJ]

If you're concerned about wind and solar farms occupying land then look what is happening in Germany in the relentless search for more coal. One day you're living in your several-hundred year old village and the next there's a open-pit coal mine that can be seen from space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garzweiler_surface_mine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignite

[Burd]

https://www.intechopen.com/books/modeling-and-simulation-for-electric-vehicle-applications/passenger-exposure-to-magnetic-fields-in-electric-vehicles

[L_e_e]

This sounds interesting.... https://www.carscoops.com/2020/09/tesla-model-s-plaid-60-in-under-2-seconds-quarter-mile-under-9-seconds-200-mph-top-speed-520-mile-range/

[AnthonyS]

I gotta second that sentiment of EVs being peppy, Mrs. Anthony's 2019 Bolt scoots and it's a little one - I can't imagine how the big / dual motored Teslas move. We primarily use the household level 2 'slow' charger, but I've gotten low on range and stopped at a fast charger a few times.

That said, we just got back from our 2500 mile road trip through seven states up to Yellowstone and back and we passed this on The 15 - to say it's impressive to see is an understatement. It looks like something out of a James Bond movie that the villain would try to corrupt to burn something...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

And yes, we took our little ICE Honda SUV - the EVCS infrastructure isn't where we all want it yet - but we're (I'm helping) working on it. I've permitted about 50 so far for Tesla, Volta, and EA myself through work...

But, I also, will never give up my Big Blocks or an ICE vehicle.

And as I understand it, the EV and EVCS industries are currently (no pun intended) limited by battery technology - both the portable kinds in the cars themselves, but also the stationary ones that we used for BESS (Battery Energy Storage Systems). Once that gets better and the grid updated of course, then they'll be able to do something with all the power that is being generated by personal PV systems, right now, storage of that power is the limiting factor as I hear it.

Cheers all, be well & safe.
Anthony

[Billohio]

Anyone here have a Tesla? My buddy said this week they had some glitch at Tesla and cars that were sitting at customers would not start? He didnt have the whole story but as an IT guy, he was concerned on how much Tesla could tell about what you were doing.

[ZiggyL78]

It is not you specifically.

In order to transition to a green economy with electric car ownership the infrastructure will need to be replaced nationwide.

Average house has 100 amp service at the box. Fast charger technology requires 200 amp minimum. Once the breaker boxes are upgraded then the transmission capacity at the street and the grid becomes completely and utterly substandard.

The stated solution for the last 30 years is to press for high speed trains and other forms of mass transit to deal with the problem.

The "problem" as viewed by the planners is that people want to drive.

Maybe each home could have a gas powered generator ;)

[EZ Nova]

"Average house has 100 amp service at the box. Fast charger technology requires 200 amp minimum. Once the breaker boxes are upgraded then the transmission capacity at the street and the grid becomes completely and utterly substandard."

I agree with the premise that we are ill suited to make the transition to ALL electric in short order. The folks pushing for all electric vehicles have not thought through how we are going to produce so much more than we have now. The transition will need to be more gradual. Personally, I believe the transition can be made easily using plug in hybrids. That is what is working for us.

Having said that, 99% of the time, the average consumer will not need to upgrade the home service. We plug Sherri's Ioinic in when we get home from work; into a regular 120 household outlet. It charges overnight. The fast charge technology NORMALLY is only needed on trips.

Here in Ontario I believe building code for the last 5 yrs 200 amps is required and about 3 yrs ago EVERY garage is prewired for a charging station in the garage right in the building code. AND each bay of the garage MUST be prewired. So 2 bay garage, 2 prewired stations. 4 car garage, 4 prewired station.

Also insurance companies are REQUIRING more power to keep your insurance valid! Back in April of 2005 I sold my house that was built in 1956. That house had been upgraded to 100 amp service. The buyer actually had 30 day after possession to upgrade to 200 amps or his insurance was getting cut off. I was in my new house for a couple months so I was allowing them to go in and do the upgrades before closing.

[EZ Nova]

YEP, just checked. This house, built in 2014 and I took possession in January 2015 has
200 AMP service.

[EZ Nova]

I'm curious about all this stuff too. Unlike Charlie, in 15 yrs I will be 69. I'm wondering when the actual BIG PUSH to EV will come in my lifetime and when gas will start getting hard to get?

Just put on offer in for the shop I rent for my cars. 15 bay industrial shop, 3 buildings with units from 700 to 1000 sq feet. 99% of the insurance companies WOULD NOT INSURE if units were rented for working on cars and have "various petroleum products". I went thru 3 brokers to get insurance. FYI there conditions are being put into new lease that will be starting January 2021.

And not so much the grid that I worry about. Here in Ontario, we actually PAY the NW USA to take our excess hydro off our hands. So that no issue here. Charging station are popping up and are around. So like gas, you can find charging stations. FUNNY, there are very few E85 pumps in Ontario. I looked 3 yrs ago and the whole province only had 3 E85 suppliers??? But charging places are popping up pretty good now.

But what about all the jobs that will be lost with EV. Gasket companies, EFI guys, mechanics, oil changes etc. Ford just signed a 2 Billion $$$ union deal here in Ontario for there plants in Oakville and Windsor. There getting EV products and due to some government agreements, to manufacture EV vehicle, you MUST also produce batteries for them in that state or province. How many supporting companies and people will be lost with the change from internal combustion to EV?????

[scuncio]

Anyone here have a Tesla? My buddy said this week they had some glitch at Tesla and cars that were sitting at customers would not start? He didnt have the whole story but as an IT guy, he was concerned on how much Tesla could tell about what you were doing.

Tesla did have a fairly well publicized IT outage last week.

[70 copo]

Maybe each home could have a gas powered generator ;)

This is not too far off the mark for the unfortunate residents of California.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-24/dumping-gas-cars-may-push-california-power-demand-to-the-brink

So what is likely:

The executive order would drive up power demands in the state by as much as 9.5% over the next 10 years and 25% by 2035. Currently rolling back outs are ordered to prevent the system from collapsing during heat waves right now.

So it reasons that if everyone were to plug in their vehicles at the same time, at night, the problem could be concentrated and even worse.

Logically people would have to stagger when and how they plug in their vehicles for charging, taking into account when the state’s solar energy kicks in and when wind power peaks, for example if everyone plugs in right after work that's roughly the same time everyone also decides to turn on their air conditioning, stoves and televisions, so again at roughly the same time, solar power then dips around sunset, forcing gas plants to pick up demand.

Any way you view this it's not good.

[Lee Stewart]

California approves largest ever utility program to expand EV charging

(Reuters) - California on Thursday approved a $437 million effort to build thousands of electric vehicle chargers, its utility regulator said, calling it the nation’s largest ever utility program to expand charging infrastructure.

The money will go to utility Southern California Edison SCE_pe.A to fund the installation of nearly 40,000 chargers, the California Public Utilities Commission said in a statement.

The program will help the state achieve its goal of putting 5 million zero-emissions vehicles on the road by 2030, the CPUC said.

Half of the investment must take place in low-income communities, and 30% will be dedicated to multi-family residences, where it is more difficult to charge an EV.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-california-electric/california-approves-largest-ever-utility-program-to-expand-ev-charging-idUSKBN25N390

[earntaz]

California approves largest ever utility program to expand EV charging



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-california-electric/california-approves-largest-ever-utility-program-to-expand-ev-charging-idUSKBN25N390

Hmmm -- I wonder where they'll get their juice from ... it has been reported they can't keep up with what they have now .... brown outs are normal.

[scuncio]

The load sharing idea you've outlined below is the core of the 'V2G' (vehicle to grid) features and standards that are being developed between OEMs and utilities. What you didn't touch on is any vehicle with bidirectional power delivery can also feed energy back into the grid to help load-balance. I'm not suggesting this is easy or addresses all the concerns around today's grid integrity, but it helps.

This is not too far off the mark for the unfortunate residents of California.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-24/dumping-gas-cars-may-push-california-power-demand-to-the-brink

So what is likely:

The executive order would drive up power demands in the state by as much as 9.5% over the next 10 years and 25% by 2035. Currently rolling back outs are ordered to prevent the system from collapsing during heat waves right now.

So it reasons that if everyone were to plug in their vehicles at the same time, at night, the problem could be concentrated and even worse.

Logically people would have to stagger when and how they plug in their vehicles for charging, taking into account when the state’s solar energy kicks in and when wind power peaks, for example if everyone plugs in right after work that's roughly the same time everyone also decides to turn on their air conditioning, stoves and televisions, so again at roughly the same time, solar power then dips around sunset, forcing gas plants to pick up demand.

Any way you view this it's not good.

[mssl72]

This is not too far off the mark for the unfortunate residents of California.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-24/dumping-gas-cars-may-push-california-power-demand-to-the-brink

So what is likely:

The executive order would drive up power demands in the state by as much as 9.5% over the next 10 years and 25% by 2035. Currently rolling back outs are ordered to prevent the system from collapsing during heat waves right now.

So it reasons that if everyone were to plug in their vehicles at the same time, at night, the problem could be concentrated and even worse.

Logically people would have to stagger when and how they plug in their vehicles for charging, taking into account when the state’s solar energy kicks in and when wind power peaks, for example if everyone plugs in right after work that's roughly the same time everyone also decides to turn on their air conditioning, stoves and televisions, so again at roughly the same time, solar power then dips around sunset, forcing gas plants to pick up demand.

Any way you view this it's not good.

I'm gonna start packing.

[markinnaples]

I was listening to a radio show last month and they had an expert on nuclear power who said that with the improvements they've made over the last several years (productivity and safety), nuclear power is very safe and very cheap and really should be more widespread than it is and that the stigma should be removed so that more plants are built.

[scuncio]

I'm gonna start packing.

As a former resident of California, I think you guys have other reasons to start packing besides EVs.... Crazy out there, between the wildfires, homelessness, etc.

[Astock]

The classic cars need to added to the list. The days of waking up, excited to find a car that's been sitting since 60's 70's, are long gone.

[ZiggyL78]

Anyone here have a Tesla? My buddy said this week they had some glitch at Tesla and cars that were sitting at customers would not start? He didnt have the whole story but as an IT guy, he was concerned on how much Tesla could tell about what you were doing.



You don't even have to drive it backward !

https://abc7news.com/tesla-that-caught-fire-in-los-gatos-reignites-at-auto-shop-in-campbell/4925030/