1978 W72 4spd L78 M21 WTF

[A12pilot]

Ok, I might have thrown that last code in there since I'm about to learn all these Pontiac codes shortly!:biggthumpup:

Just bought this 78 Trans Am in Martinique Blue, all original minus a fuel pump and brake master cylinder, 400/4bbl, 4spd and I'm pretty excited about getting it here and documenting things!

It was parked in 1985 as that's the last registration on it, and it's still titled in the original owners name. Buildsheet is mint, and minus the hood from a mouse nest, rotted out panel free. Finally, a car I don't need to do much to.

So with something like this, do I paint, drive and have fun or try and save as-is with some touch up paint work and leave it alone? Thoughts?:hmmm:

More to come...

Cheers
Dave

PS: now I need a shipper to get it back from the Philly area!

[Postsedan]

Congrats....Very Nice!

Love the Color.....Go Super Dave Go!

Dan

[Lee Stewart]

Drive it, enjoy it and in a year or two sell it and move on to a real project that can take advantage of your extraordinary skills Dave.

Use this car for the fall and winter then shift over to the 1963 Corvette for spring and summer.

That's my opinion.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Cool car!!

What rear gears? 3.23? (I saw posi on the BS)

Ryan W31.

[tom406]

Leave it alone might be a good option, but...have you MET you before? (It’s going to look BEAUTIFUL repainted. It’d be even better if you could get Ken Maisano to do the drivetrain:)

[A12pilot]

Hmmmm... Good point, Tom. If I know me, and I think I do. I'm thinking a repaint will be coming post-haste!

I'll get it here then decide what to do. Already downloaded the Ames catalog!

Cheers
Dave

[njsteve]

Nice car! Check for rust at the lower edges of the windshield by the A-pillars. It is a major trouble area if the car has been sitting anywhere wet (like Philly). The worst areas will be hidden by the bottom of the glass where the butyl tape is.

[Rebelrouser]

400 200hp( I think) ST-10 BW 4 speed. On the side of the case there should be 9 bolts on the side cover. Muncie's had 7. No exceptions. Also on the right side there should be either 902,903, or 904 casting numbers with the 904 the strongest of all three. The other two, if I remember are aluminum made. The M21 designation code is for which ratio 4 speed to install. There are over 7 ST-10's available with a wide range of gear ratio's. There was one a 4 groove 2:88 1st gear, that was designated for the Corvette. Super hard to come by. It was aluminum as well. Neat car. Don't see too many of them like that around for sale anymore. Enjoy.

[TimG]

Dave, I love that it has no air-conditioning, what a cool car.

[Lee Stewart]

Cool car!!

What rear gears? 3.23? (I saw posi on the BS)

Ryan W31.

I think the 3.23 rear was for the auto. 3.42 for the 4 speed AFAIK. Rear would have a WC code.

[Lee Stewart]

Am I reading the BS right - no window tint?

[Billohio]

Looks like the same car my buddies mom bought a year ago but has an automatic. interior looks the same color

[Too Many Projects]

Wait for a shipper ??? Rent a U-haul trailer and go get it. That will be part of the fun...:laugh:

[A12pilot]

Nah, already did that once getting the Corvette. No way I’m driving that buggy back here on a u-haul from up there! I’ll call a few that were recently posted and report back.

Yes, no window tint. Hence no interior color left!:bs:

Cheers:biggthumpup:
Dave

[Too Many Projects]

Nah, already did that once getting the Corvette. No way I’m driving that buggy back here on a u-haul from up there! I’ll call a few that were recently posted and report back.

Yes, no window tint. Hence no interior color left!:bs:

Cheers:biggthumpup:
Dave


OH, I just saw Jersey Boy...I missed the TX part !! yeah, that would be a bit of a haul, although I hauled a '69 C10 back to Stillwater, MN a few years ago..:wink:

[markinnaples]

I vote for a restoration. Maybe not sub-frame off, but a sympathetic rejuvenation with a Super Dave paint job in that beautiful Martinique Blue color.

[Postsedan]

Dave,

Do as you always do.....do whatever is right, do whatever you wish, do whatever the car Speaks to You :)

That is all that matters. I know it will be Beautiful when finished and most Everyone will want to buy it :)

Dan

[markjohnson]

No A/C with a 4-speed means the customer had one thing in mind . . . reliving the events of 8-10 years prior! He knew the end was coming.

[A12pilot]

Thanks for the thoughts, men!:biggthumpup: I think a combination of a light restoration and preservation may be the best mix. It'll need paint and some very minor rust issues addressed, but I'm digging the original hoses, belts, and brakes and that goofy exhaust with that pancake catalytic converter still on it! Nothing's been touched minus the fuel pump and brake master cylinder, and it's kind of cool since these cars always get Day 2 treatment in more of a jacked up / hacked up kind of way.

There's still a part of the original plastic seat cover protector attached! :shocked:

Cheers:beers:
Dave

[A12pilot]

Original rear brakes intact along with the first registration sticker under several years worth of renewals until 1984 :biggthumpup:

If I do anything it might just be a couple bolt on improvements like Snowflakes, RA manifolds, and a true dual exhaust. We’ll see!


Cheers
Dave

[cook_dw]

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[Tracker1]

Congrats Dave! Welcome to the W72 club. I've owned a few of these and they are tons of fun when all the bushings are replaced with fresh rubber and the 15 X 8 wider snowflakes are added. Too bad the Original owner didn't tick the WS6 box, that is the gem with the 78-81 cars, it was GM's best suspension option of the '70s...better than Vettes.

I agree on paint, Martinique looks spectacular fresh. Get that exhaust off of there and hang it in the garage as art - that is all it is good for. Put on some Ram Air Restoration Enterprises 2.5" original appearing Ram Air manifolds (just like a Judge!) and a good mandrel bent 2.5" exhaust . get a Cliff Ruggles kit for the carb and watch that baby come alive. N.H.R.A. spec'd that engine at 260 horsepower back in the day, laughing at Pontiac's 220 rating. I added 3.73 gears to mine as the 400 is way peakier than a 455 obviously.

I'll be watching this one, let's get going!

[Tracker1]

I think the 3.23 rear was for the auto. 3.42 for the 4 speed AFAIK. Rear would have a WC code.

The rears used 'P' codes actually with 3.42 being PY code. WC is the engine suffix on the front of a 4-speed W72 block in '78.

[Jonesy]

I got a low mile 79 z28 with that same color light blue interior and it fades even when its in the garage!!
I had shades of light blue, grey, a weird aqua tint in the carpet.:hmmm:

[njsteve]

You can get the Evaporust in 55 gallon drums, you know. :-) Just set it up on jack stands and start spraying the underside with a sump pump, a couple kiddie pools and tarps underneath. It works great on old, non-greasy surface rust.

[McCune]

I just sold this 78 W72 4 speed blue bird. It is very rough but all there. Good job on finding a much nicer car!

[grantprix]

Nice find! That one is optioned perfectly IMO. My one and only T/A was the same year and color combo that I bought in the late 80's, but it was a CA car with the dreaded 403 Olds smog engine with an auto trans. My girlfriend at the time really liked driving it, but I didn't keep it long.

[Crush]

[QUOTE=grantprix;1522647]Nice find! That one is optioned perfectly IMO. My one and only T/A was the same year and color combo that I bought in the late 80's, but it was a CA car with the dreaded 403 Olds smog engine with an auto trans.

“My girlfriend at the time really liked driving it, but I didn't keep it long”

The girlfriend or the car? LOL!

[A12pilot]

Thanks Guys! Des, good info. So really, what I’m seeing is that these cars are some of the ones that do better when modified versus restored/stock. While part of me would want to keep the original stuff on there, it’s basically worthless since it doesn’t perform well and is 42yrs old.

Yep, paint, wheels, exhaust, and some interior treatment. That might be about it!

Cheers
Dave

[Lee Stewart]

Dave:

Try to use the Rallye II wheels that came with the car. If you do a search for 1978 Trans Am you will see literally almost all the photos have the "snowflake" wheels so yours will stand out.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=1978+firebird+trans+am&form=HDRSC2&first=1&scenario=ImageBasicHover

[njsteve]

Dave, if you need any extra 15" late-70's rally wheels, I have a bunch sitting around the yard, doing me no good.

[Tracker1]

Unless you're going to go with those fancy 16 inch or 17 inch Rally IIs like njsteve has on Gramma's car, go with the deep dish 8" WS6 snowflakes. The old Colin Chapman axiom of "add lightness" comes into play here. The car will feel and handle better with the WS6 wheels, especially the gold ones which contrast nicely with Marty Blue. Lots to think about.

Pic of my plate :)

[A12pilot]

Thanks for the thoughts, guys! Well, it seems this Pontiac has slipped away too. :confused2:

The title is in the original owner’s name, not the sellers, and he’s been passed away for quite a few years. :hmmm: Although signed, this shouldn’t really be an issue except at the DMV here in my county needing a Bill of Sale between me and the owner with...you guessed it...a signature of the dead dude!:frown: And after talking with the lady at the DMV, she basically told me to just have the guy out the title in his name so there’s no issues. Oddly enough, I agree with her but it’ll take a while since the DMVs are backed up due to The Sneeze.

This will be the second Pontiac to slip away due to paperwork logistics and round-a-bout procedures. I get why people don’t want to register the car for whatever reason, but if you’re flipping it, should be in your name unless you’re a dealer. For me, it’s an issue. Might not be for someone else but having gone to the DMV too many times...repeatedly...for the same stupid issues I’ll just steer clear on this one.:no:

There’s always another!


Cheers
Dave

[njsteve]

Well, we can always work out a time share deal with my Gramma's 75 'bird (long enough for you to repaint it)...

;-)

Yeah these people think they're saving money somehow by not registering/paying sales tax but they are just making the car un-transferrable without a current bill of sale with the same name of the person on the title.

[A12pilot]

Ha! Right! Send it down Steve-O!!!!:biggthumpup:

Lately it seems the cars in finding are usually not in the seller's name. The deceased owner is a different story. Not sure how I'm supposed to get a signature from him bring 6ft under Terra Firma!!:hmmm:

The search continues!:biggthumpup:

Cheers
Dave

[Too Many Projects]

It is a neat combo car, but I agree. I stopped buying anything without a transferable title 12 years ago in MN. I bought a '67 GTO basket case that the seller was going to get a clear title for. It took 3 years and I got it, but it's just too much time, expense and hassle to deal with.
I've never understood the reluctance of others to transfer a title either. The car is not legally theirs until they do. I don't spend another dime on a car I purchase until the title is in my name.

Although, I may spend a BUNCH on parts that I don't attach, while waiting for the title...:wink:

[Mr70]

Sorry to hear you had to let this car go,looked like a fun endeavor.
Look on the bright side,now the WTF in this topic description fits. ;)

[A12pilot]

See? It’s the silver lining on the cloud! Hahaha! Now that’s funny....:tongue:

Cheers :beers:
Dave

[cook_dw]

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[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/NMrkkVZR/72916062-770-0-2-X.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[big gear head]

Looks like you're just going to have to work on that BMW.

[A12pilot]

Oh, I haven’t stopped on it, but haven’t updated the thread. Been trying to get the K10 truck done and all that is left is painting the bed. It’s amazing what can get dented and where on those old truck beds. Yeeesh!:bs:

Fear not! I’ll have an update on the 507 soon! I’m headed to Baltimore to look at this.....

Cheers:beers:
Dave

[Burd]

Nice TA. Looks like you need to pinch my parts hoard on a few parts, the light blue interior is a biotch finding. I can help you out on some stuff, leme know.

[Lee Stewart]

Nice TA. Looks like you need to pinch my parts hoard on a few parts, the light blue interior is a biotch finding. I can help you out on some stuff, leme know.

NG. Sale transfer docs were a mess. Dave passed on the purchase.