Help with day 2 goals

[Rallyegreen68SS]

Hello to all, I am in the midst of a mostly day 2 restoration of my 68 L78 Camaro. Brief history, car sold new in Tulsa, OK, orig motor long gone. My brother trailered original paint car along with owner history to Jerry M's residence, had it documented. I've got a CE 4 bolt block, machine work done, Scat stroker crank & rods, 077 alum heads, factory intake, carb and air cleaner. Problem is I live in Kansas, 100 degree plus days are common, will drive car a lot and a/c is mandatory. I don't want to spoil underhood looks, so my plan was to tuck a condenser tight to front of radiator, run hoses along bottom of rad support to right front fender, use a small Vintage Air under dash unit and install a trunk mounted electric compressor. My biggest issue is that the current draw will far exceed alternator output. I see a number of high output alternators available, and was wondering if anyone here has experience with any of them. I have a restamp 837 alternator that obviously is not up to the task. I don't really care if the alternator I use has correct numbers on it, but want one that is era correct style. Any suggestions on vendors? Thanks, Tom

[whitetop]

Aluminum heads( I presume modern ones) and trunk mounted AC is not Day 2.

Day 2 is using correct for the era speed equipment, not modern resto mods.

[Postsedan]

Yeah, I would agree....any A/C system will not help that engine bay be real Day2 contender.
Day2 was all about installing those specialty performance parts.....making it your very own.
Just not too many cars with A/C that were Day2.... Kinda like seeing a Convertible with a roll cage :(

We also have hot days here in Chicago.....it's all about well maintaining the car....knowing the cars limits. If its a super hot day....I take the cars out in the evening. I prefer the cooler evening cruising.

But, it is your car....do as you please and enjoy it :)

Dan

[big gear head]

I hate to see air conditioning on these old cars, especially an original solid lifter car. I drive my Camaro and just put up with the heat.

[Rallyegreen68SS]

Sorry, apparently I got off on the wrong foot (or forum!). I was a kid when these cars were new, I remember lots of slightly older friends and siblings doing whatever they could to "soup up" their cars. Aftermarket intakes, cams, headers, exhaust systems, wheels, etc. My goal is not a restomod, I've got several LT1 direct injected motors, 8 speed automatics, Tremec 6 speeds, etc that would be a cinch for me to install/tune. I'm not headed down that path. FWIW, 077 aluminum heads were offered in early 70's directly from GM as a service replacement for l88 heads. They've got a Winters snowflake, just somewhat different from the 074's they replaced. I'm not interested in a judged day 2 showcar, simply something that looks close to original with some nice updates/upgrades. Btw, Chicago may get hot, well try a high of 115 since I've lived here with humidity nearly triple digits. 60-80 days annually with 100 plus temps. I'm simply wanting input from anyone who's been down the road with an electric compressor. As far as a convertible with a rollcage, my goal is to have an L78 car that does not appear to have a/c. I don't want a compressor hung onto an L78 engine, nor do I want visible hoses, etc when the hood is opened. A trunk mounted compressor would solve that issue for me. It will simply take an alternator with enough output to run it, while trying to maintain a non a/c underhood look. While not ideal, I could even set the condenser behind the radiator, hidden by the fan shroud.

[NorCam]

I've got a CE 4 bolt block, machine work done, Scat stroker crank & rods, 077 alum heads, factory intake, carb and air cleaner.Thanks, Tom

I believe those 077 heads are vintage over the counter-performance winters castings. Not a production part and would probably be as good as any worked over iron heads. I'd run them and would simply paint them orange. You can always take your alternator and send it to be rebuilt for higher amperage.

Don't think I'd be running AC myself? But, at the end of the day, shorts and flip flops are always appropriate in day 2 trim. :scholar:

[Lynn]

Having looked into the electric 12 volt ac compressor set up, I can tell you that you need at least a 100 amp alternator.

Maybe I am a bit of an odd ball here, but I like the idea of ac on a day two "look" car. No it isn't really day 2. It would be much more enjoyable to drive in the heat.

Back to the alternator; I am not aware of any place you can send it to have it rebuilt to put out 100+ amps. My guess is you will be stuck using a more modern alternator. It will be one more concession to NOT looking period correct. But then, you are already going to have that condenser up in front of the radiator.

BTW, you CANNOT tuck that condenser in too tightly to the radiator or neither one will work efficiently. I get you are trying to hide it a bit, but overheating with crappy ac won't be much fun.

If you decide to go ahead with it, please start a tutorial thread from start to finish; good bad and ugly.

[BCreekDave]

Might be able to get away with a rebuilt 10DN alternator to go to 60+ amps and use it to charge a Lithium-ion battery pack in the trunk to assist in running the compressor. It may not work for long haul trips, but for the usual cruise it may be fine. With enough engineering you may pull it off. I thought about getting rid of the trunk drop offs for air circulation for the condensers(two of them) and the evaporator pushing air out through a factory looking defrost vent. It would not work as well as the factory air setup, but might be enough for all but the hottest days.

[big gear head]

I've seen several cars lately that burned to the ground with the lithium battery being the suspected cause.

[L78M22Rag]

Wow, a ‘68 L78 Camaro wearing its original factory paint. Sounds like an awesome car! What colour? Can you share any photos?

I’m all-in for going day-two, but adding A/C to a very unique, desirable and original solid lifter car? Good luck.

[Too Many Projects]

There are kits to rebuild vintage alternators to 100 amp, but I don't know about the external regulated system being capable of that. Internal, easy. Early 70's Cadillac's and Buick's came with 90 amp alternators for all the power equipment and A/C already being installed back then. The early internal alts look enough like the external alts to not really be noticeable, except to the people who know these cars very well. You leave the regulator on the core support and use 1 jumper wire to, effectively, bypass the regulator.



Having worked in automotive A/C and been trained, I don't see how you would ever get the temp of the gas down enough to turn back to liquid with the condenser behind the radiator, that air is just too hot. It needs to be the first thing the air hits and, like Lynn said, it needs the proper space to the radiator for that to cool enough to not overheat too.


I'm with Big Gear Head, no Lithium-ion batteries in ANYTHING I own.

[Rallyegreen68SS]

Thanks for all of the great input! I'll address some of these one at a time. Norcam, if I was fortunate enough to live in Alberta, I don't think I'd worry about a/c either! I'll check with some local electrical guys about upgrades to my alternator. Thanks. Lynn, I'd figured 120 amp output would be ideal minimum, so you were about where I was on numbers. And I will go ahead with it, will take your advise & start a tutorial thread once my car is back in my shop. I appreciate the suggestion. BCreekDave, I hadn't thought about an extra battery, or putting condenser in trunk after allowing for circulation, intriguing idea! I've been a Mercedes-Benz master tech for a couple of decades, they use LI batteries on some of their AMG S-class cars. I know auto LI technology has progressed by exponential amounts over the last few years. Have never researched aftermarket applications for them, will definitely look into it, even the possibility of a lead-acid battery for extra capacity and to act as a buffer. L78M22Rag, it's a Rallye Green with parchment interior D80 car. JM said it had been years since he had seen such an unmolested original paint car, said the light interior was a rather uncommon in 68. He phoned owner #2 and had a long conversation about what he knew about car. There was enough rust that partial quarters, trunk floor and floorboards all required metal work. Will plan to post pics when I start the a/c fitment thread. Too Many Projects, I researched your comment about condenser location, you are spot on. It'll have to go in front of radiator, as you said. Will sort out what condenser options I have. Thanks again, guys.

[NorCam]

Yeah...most of our hot summer days are in the mid to high 80's, but we do get the occasional stint with temps in the 90's plus, but normally a dry heat and w/o humidity. I still remember the first time I stepped out of a car when we drove down to Atlanta. I about died when I stepped out into that muggy mess of July heat. If I was down there, I'd be sure to have a couple of cars ready to go. A driver car with air perhaps, and a solid lifter car that was built for evening cruises and days when the temps were a bit lower. GM never put a/c into solid lifter cars back in the day, and I think solid lifter cars should always be that way...but that's just me.

I say do what you like with your own car as I have never let other people's feelings get in the way of whatever I want to do with mine. After all, it's gotta float my boat before I'm ever gonna worry about what someone else likes or doesn't like. I'll be following your build thread once you get started.

Cheers :beers:

[big gear head]

L78M22Rag, it's a Rallye Green with parchment interior D80 car. JM said it had been years since he had seen such an unmolested original paint car, said the light interior was a rather uncommon in 68.

Couldn't you put air conditioning on another car and leave this unmolested L78 car unmolested? Once you do this you can't undo it. It won't be "such an unmolested original paint car" anymore.

[Rallyegreen68SS]

Well, the plan with the a/c is to install it without any non-reversible modifications to the car. High up on the list is not messing up the car visually, while making it more user friendly. Time will tell, but I hope the end result will stay true to that goal. Will keep you all posted.

[big gear head]

You are going to have to cut and drill holes in the car to make this work. Those are not reversible modifications.

[Tommy]

Just reading through this and I have to agree with everyone lol. Your approach isn't day 2 at all but it's your car. I do have another option if you want A/C. There were companies making under dash A/C units back in the 70's and they looked pretty good. I had a 72 Nova with a working aftermarket air conditioner. The under dash unit was black plastic with the fan built in and the compressor is a upright style similar to some found on older ford's. Your still going to have the hoses and a/c parts under the hood but it'll look the part instead of a cobbled up mess.

Tommy

[Tommy]

The compressor on my old Nova was a "York" compressor.


Tommy