1964 GTO, First Muscle Car?

[Burd]

Don Keefe puts out Poncho Perfection Magazine, 64 GTO, first Muscle Car? Check out the video


https://youtu.be/yd9BtGC2_GA

[Lee Stewart]

The GTO is the first intermediate sized car with a full size car engine, hood treatment, lots of badging and special tires.

But the real first muscle car is the 1932 Ford Model 18 - the first car with a V8

https://i.postimg.cc/xTRfCvR6/retro-ford-v8-coupe-long.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

[tunes]

The GTO is the first intermediate sized car with a full size car engine, hood treatment, lots of badging and special tires.

But the real first muscle car is the 1932 Ford Model 18 - the first car with a V8

I would have to disagree. The 1960's is when the term muscle car was being used and that description was for a mid-sized car with a large displacement engine, such as the GTO. I would call that '32 more of a high performance car. :burnout:

[Lee Stewart]

I would have to disagree. The 1960's is when the term muscle car was being used and that description was for a mid-sized car with a large displacement engine, such as the GTO. I would call that '32 more of a high performance car. :burnout:

The term "Muscle Car" didn't arrive until the 1970 Hot Rod "here are the new Muscle Cars." Prior to that they were called Super Cars.

[Lynn]

You could make a good case for the 57 Studebaker Golden Hawk. Although it only had a 289 V8, it was supercharged.

But no question, it you are using the criteria of midsize car with fullsize engine, then I think you have to go with the GTO.

[Keith Seymore]

The GTO is the first intermediate sized car with a full size car engine, hood treatment, lots of badging and special tires.

But the real first muscle car is the 1932 Ford Model 18 - the first car with a V8

https://i.postimg.cc/xTRfCvR6/retro-ford-v8-coupe-long.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

Lee, Lee, Lee: you sweet summer child....

;)

I'm surprised!

a) Car pictured above is not a '32 Ford; looks like a '33 or '34 based on the radiator grille shell. '32 Ford shown below:

https://drivetribe.imgix.net/WRbHcHVmQB6hI390S5iZpA?w=1200&h=675&fm=jpe&auto=compress&fit=crop&crop=faces

b) A quick google search reveals the first car with a V8 was......a 1914 Cadillac.

https://historygarage.com/first-american-car-v8-factory-1914-cadallac/

https://historygarage.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1915-cadilloac-v8.jpg

c) Original "Muscle Car"? It's the '64 GTO - by definition.



K

[Keith Seymore]

Sidebar #1: Did you know Henry Ford experimented with other configurations for 8 cylinder engines besides a "V" shape?

https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/henry-fords-incredible-x-8-engine/

This one was designed in seclusion at Greenfield Village, in Edison's Menlo Park laboratory, probably to keep it away from prying eyes at the official Ford engineering facilities.

An original block casting was recently excavated from the Village while doing construction for updates.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Sidebar #2: Did you know Clyde Barrow (of "Bonnie and Clyde" fame) always drove Ford V-8 equipped automobiles "...when he could get away with one"?

https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/281082/

K

[Burd]

The Fords are cool Hot Rods but not a muscle car, and you had to hot rod to make them cool.

One for Keith, damn near a muscle car lol

[tunes]

The term "Muscle Car" didn't arrive until the 1970 Hot Rod "here are the new Muscle Cars." Prior to that they were called Super Cars.

Wrong again, Lee. The Muscle Car term was being used in the '60s and I should know because I was there, but since you are the official know-it-all on this site I'll drop the subject. :scholar: Have a great day.

[markinnaples]

The above isn't a 32, 33, or 34 Ford, it's a 1935 or 36 Ford 3 Window Coupe

[Lynn]

Really have a couple of debates going on here:

1. What was the first muscle car?

2. When was the term "muscle car" first used?

Maybe a third debate; When was the term "muscle car" commonly used?

The Fiat S76 gets my vote as the first muscle car in 1910. 300 hp (at 1,000 rpm) in a giant 4 cyl engine.

Watch this video: https://theoldmotor.com/?p=146640

As far as the term, muscle car, I doubt you will find an earlier printed example than Popular Mechanics in Jan. 1964, but it certainly does NOT apply to what we later referred to as muscle cars. It was in reference to a Land Rover, and it was hyphenated; "muscle-car", describing a very spartan vehicle with no frills, but with some muscle.

The first reference that could be found for "muscle car" (no hyphen) describing a 60s car is in the Oct 1965 Popular Science: "DODGE CORONET becomes "muscle car" with Hemi-426 engine, but relies on drum brakes only. Rally suspension makes car remarkably well-balanced and good-handling." Note that it is not claiming the Dodge to the the first muscle car; just that the hemi made it one.

Frankly, I don't remember using the term in every day language until the 70s. I am always skeptical of anecdotal references such as "we always called them muscle cars in the 60s". Memories fade.

[Burd]

What cars were considered muscle cars in the 60’s?
You had the Chryslers w/ the hemi’s in, but I wouldn’t consider them a muscle car.
The early SD Pontiac’s come to my mind.

[Lee Stewart]

What cars were considered muscle cars in the 60’s?
You had the Chryslers w/ the hemi’s in, but I wouldn’t consider them a muscle car.
The early SD Pontiac’s come to my mind.

SD Pontiacs, Chevy's Z11, Ford's Thunderbolt, Chrysler's high compression 426 wedge cars - all were purpose built race cars and were not street worthy. But they may have been a template for road worthy cars that followed them. First called Super cars, then Muscle Cars.

[m22mike]

.

[Tenney]

Think '64 GTO might get credit for kicking-off the "muscle car era" due to #'s sold circa '64, spawning mid-sized offerings with full-sized engines from all the OEM's and other GM divisions in '65, and onward ...?

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/Pqj9Kpzp/DSC08999.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

The GTO was much more than just an intermediate sized car with a big engine. It was a total package:


A great name: GTO
Bucket seats
Hood treatment
389-4V 325HP with 348 HP Tri-Power optional
Heavy duty suspension
Chrome accents under the hood
Hurst shifter standard on 3 and 4 speed manual trans
Redline tires
Lots of badges.


All this made the GTO unique and the template for all muscle cars to follow it.

[Keith Seymore]

Think '64 GTO might get credit for kicking-off the "muscle car era" due to #'s sold circa '64, spawning mid-sized offerings with full-sized engines from all the OEM's and other GM divisions in '65, and onward ...?

I trust you recognized the car in my post #6:

Not just "any" GTO, but "THE" GTO.

;)

I imagine there is not much mystery about where I land on this topic.

K

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/59QtZDWB/00q.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

https://i.postimg.cc/15xzPMyL/00qqq.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

Pontiac's 1964 Flamme show car. Notice the rear quarter emblem