'69 Copo Camaro

[downunder1]

Does anybody know any history on the ex Reggie Jackson black Copo Camaro that is for sale at Smokey Mountain Traders?

Asking on behalf of a good buddy of mine.

Thank you,
John

[WorkinProgress]

Here is the link...

https://www.smokymountaintraders.com/cars-for-sale/566/1969-chevrolet-camaro-copo-427

[firstgenaddict]

I took a look at the photos...
You would be hard pressed to find another 139-160k COPO which is restored with the amount of NOS correct parts used on that car.
IF it's a 10 10 X11 it would be a nice pick up at 139k with under 5k in parts labor it would score really well amongst pretty high company. A very nice restoration, that I would actually not nit pick too much myself, other than radiator rails, radiator cap, and a set of original seats there is not much to nitpick -
WELL, other than it's confused as to how it should be dressed...
IT's either X11 style trim missing it's wheel opening moldings and wheel arch pinstripes OR
it's a really overdressed X44- headlight bezels, tail light bezels, 1/4 gill trim, drip rail trim.

Here is a breakdown of the major areas.
One of the better restored cars as far as correctness.
If Reggie restored it, it probably had NOS weatherstripping etc installed as well.
1. looks to be mint original door panels, original carpet with the perfect amount of sunbleaching, shifter, shift knob, dash pad, & worst thing about the interior... Late 80's vinyl repop seat covers -
2. The chassis photos reveal correct finishes, 2 piece rotors, correct rear springs, subframe even has the hole for the spoiler rod brace. (brace missing) and it looks to have NOS ball joints, NOS tie rods, NOS Bushings etc, Really nice - you rarely see this on cars in this price range--

Find a set of original seats - and it would be a mint original interior.
Honestly the door panels are the hardest part of the entire interior to find.

The car would score pretty high with a few minor things, (radiator rails, seats, and either trim it as a X11 or as a X44.)

[PeteLeathersac]

'

124379N640330
Recent thread w/ other links, click here...
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1507105

:beers:
~ Pete

.

[Stefano]

This would be strong $$$ for a clone COPO, even in today’s market, IMHO.

[RPOLS3]

Quote from Mick in one of the other threads......

This is a real copo camaro. Jay Nixon restored it in early 80s. The car was originally orange and it was sold thru Queen City. Jay painted it black because thats what he wanted to do and in 82 who gave a crap. It did not have the original motor then but it did have a 435 horse Vette block. Jay sold it to Carl Dwiggens. Carl sold a group of cars to Reggie and this car was in the lot and at that time Carl had the protector plate for the car. I don't think Carl ever gave the protector plate up with the car. Chip Gerst worked for Reggie and I sold Reggie a pair of 840 heads for the correct engine because Reggie pulled the engine for a Vette he had. At the time of the engine swap Chip changed the original trim tag for a reproduction one with the black paint code, (bad move but its done and Chip has since passed away). The car then sold to Cecil and later to a collector in San Antonio who has passed away and his collection was sold to a local from San Antonio. It popped up on eBay as a clone and I was doing consulting work in Houston at the time when I seen it and recognized the front license plate as the COPO plate from Indiana when Jay owned it. I bought it later sold to Greg Nuge and so on. The car is absolutely real but unfortunately the trim tag was changed to match the color change. I can only assume that it was advertised as a clone when it was because there wasn't any paper for the car. I still have the Super Chevy magazine from when Jay had it featured there. April 1984 in memory serves me well.

[Jonesy]

Its definately got one of those obvious repop tags on it. :rolleyes:

[Jonesy]

124379N640330

Body NOR292315

[MosportGreen66]

Its definately got one of those obvious repop tags on it. :rolleyes:

You beat me to it... reproduction cowl tag!

[firstgenaddict]

That's what I was afraid of given there wasn't a good photo of the tag.

[3X24SPD]

Guys, this car has a round driver side mirror. My 69 02B Z28 also has the same round mirror- which I assumed was something a previous owner had installed on mine to replace the factory rectangular mirror. Did some 69's come with round mirrors? I'd be hard pressed to believe someone would install such a glaring incorrect piece on this COPO- so it's got me wondering. Thanks

[x44d80]

That round mirror in the picture looks even bigger than a 67 Camaro round mirror. There was a older photo of a orange ZL1 Camaro that had a round mirror. I just did a google search and cannot find the photo of it. I have the photo in my collection at home somewhere. All 1969 Camaros I've ever seen had the rectangle mirror unless you replaced it. The 1970 Camaro bullet mirrors were popular in the day. I even installed them on my car for awhile.

[Stefano]

The Queen City COPOs seem to have been batch odered and there have been a bunch found. How do the body members /order number line up?

[downunder1]

Thank you all very much for your comments, much appreciated.

My buddy has decided to pass on the car.

John

[Pro Stock John]

Carl Dwiggens passed a while ago I think, so what happened to this car's POP, sitting a box somewhere?

[x33rs]

Sorry to hear that. Carl was a great guy. We knew him through a mutual friend in our car club at the time and he invited us down for a private tour of his collection since we were already near by at the Charlotte Auto Fair. Simply awesome stuff and super nice guy to talk to.

[x33rs]

For what it's worth, the video did mention this car has a Jerry McNeish report.

[purple panther]

did jerrys report mention it has a fake tag???

[dmarr35]

Far from a correct Copo as first and most a Color change add a wrong rear end it is not even close to Right!

[x33rs]

did jerrys report mention it has a fake tag???

That's a question you'll have to ask the seller. There were no pictures of the report. I'm sure contacting Jerry would shed some light as well.

[J jones]

I looked the car 2 weeks ago and took a good many pictures. I also passed on it. The car really needs a total restoration IMO. From the comments here the restoration was done 40 years ago and it shows.

[J jones]

I will try to post pics if I can figure it out. I guess it would make a good driver, but not at the price he's asking , I was there over an hour, they did come over and raise the hood when I ask. But never offered to talk about the car. I guess I didn't look like a buyer. Idk.

[markjohnson]

Restored by Jay 40 years ago (one of the 1st COPO’s to be restored) when you could still find & buy good GM NOS parts from the GM dealer down the street. Now we’re saying those same Genuine GM parts should be removed and replaced by Chinese offshore reproduction parts to bling it up. I personally remember this car from way back when and I’ll take it the way it is. Maybe we’ve reached a point in time after so many decades where some of these older restored cars need a name like, dare I say it . . . “Resto-Vivors”!

[mprice]

The car is a great car but unfortunately its in the hands of a dealer so the economics just will never be there to give the car what it deserves and that is restored, so someone will have to buy it and enjoy as is for what it is. The car drives better than any frame off car I have ever been around.

[J jones]

I drove 1,100 miles round trip to look at the car. Didnt say it needed a but load of Chinese parts, wrong motor,rear, color,trim tag, and paint coming off in places, all rubber looked bad. The cowl seal was smashed down and about to fall off. The car was filthy dirty, like it had been sitting in a barn for a long time. All can be fixed, if what he's asking and whoever buys it has an unlimited bank account. Has anybody checked the guys reviews. Pretty bad.

[purple panther]

i didnt know you could get a repo tag in 1983.. I thought they came much later like late 80s or early 90s. The stamps came out about 1986 with ads in hemmings.

[mprice]

I don't think anyone has said the tag was changed in 1983. I know this car very well and Jay didn't change the tag when it was restored. Carl didn't change it either. It wasn't until Reggie owned it that Chip Gerst who worked with reggie changed it to match the color that Jay had painted it with. I don't know the year but it would have been sometime in the mid two late 90s. By the way in answer to an earlier question
the car originally was an X44 trim code.

[cook_dw]

Originally a hugger orange car iirc.

[mprice]

Yes hugger orange originally as stated much earlier in this thread. Let me say this I think the car is way over priced (like double what I sold it for) but with that being said I would rather own this real car with a replacement trim tag that is rock solid and drives like a new 69 Camaro than any of the welded up Frankensteins that has every piece of the drive train replaced but oh my they may have the original trim tag.

[J jones]

I totally agree with you on the price and the fact this dealer has it. I personally liked the fact that it was black. Thats what we did back then.. Hate that the tag got changed and someone still has the pop. But thats what it is. Who ever had this car at some point must not of had a climate controlled garage. Still looking though. Got a few more leeds..

[nugeusa1]

I owned this car a few years ago, it sadly had a trim tag change due to color change from hugger orange to black. At the time I had it I cleaned up the engine compartment and interior. I had a picture before the car was restored of the under hood and the original trim tag was still on it . In the 80’s this car sold for around 20k and people did things to cars that we wouldn’t think about now. It’s a rock solid car and a real COPO but the tag change hurts it for sure but doesn’t change the fact that it left the assembly plant as a real COPO.

[Z282NV]

I wonder if the original tag is just sitting in a drawer somewhere? Like other vehicles that have had parts removed/replaced it would merit to bring them back together again.

[Pro Stock John]

I'd hope someone saved it. Someone said Carl Dwiggens had the POP so that's out there too.

[mprice]

Carl had the protector plate but who knows if it was ever was given to Reggie, I doubt it because it was advertised as a clone at the Peterson auction and Barrett at later dates. Chip and Reggie had the old trim tag but more than likely it is lost forever. The trim tag is important to tell us the codes for the car but we know every one of the codes so therefore not as imperative as it is for an unknown car. Enjoy the car for what it is because enough people know its real.

[Crush]

So knowing all this info about the car, what’s it worth? Is it just a driver or a full resto back to orig.?

[mprice]

The car deserves to be restored but if a person pays the asking price you already have too much money invested. I really like copo cars and have owned numerous examples over the years and still do but I am not as bullish on the current market as some people are. I am afraid that parts labor and paint have doomed a lot of great cars to remain in unrestored status.

[markjohnson]

Hence the term “Resto-vivor” . . . too good to restored again but still very presentable in the present condition.

[purple panther]

has anyone reached out to reggie to see if the tag was just put away?

[J jones]

I guess who ever gets the Car can. It wouldn't make much difference at this point at the price he's asking. If I were trying to sell it, You can belive I would do diligence to try to find anything on it.

[Bad67300]

I'd rather have a reproduction tag on it that mimics the original tag than the one that's on it now. At least that would represent what the car was in terms of color.

[Chrismag]

I think its reproduction cow tags, as far as I can see. (https://yourdetail.com/laurel-va.php)

[x33rs]

It sure does seem like it's getting harder and harder to find a desirable 1st gen with a legit tag that hasn't been tampered with.
I'm getting to a point where I don't even care if the engine is original or not, as long as the tag isn't tampered with and the car itself can be proven to be what is claimed.

[PeteLeathersac]

'


Funny how different we all are as personally, I'd prefer a genuine 9561 w/ THE Original L72 Engine before Cowl Tag also would leave any MIA Tags w/ nothing attached/NO Repo Tag...including subject car if it was mine.
With truths in the light and subject a real 9561 car w/ Repo Cowl Tag also wrongly advertised/sold in the past as a clone, it's worth more now than when this thread began although still short of current pricing.
:beers:
~ Pete


.

[x33rs]

I should have explained that better.

In the case of this COPO, that tag probably doesn't make or break it for me, since COPO's didn't really have a special tag that denotes COPO. They were either X11 or X44, for style trim or not, like any other base camaro. No big deal to me. It's other clues like having a factory ZL2 firewall piercing, factory muncie piercing, disc brake setup and other small clues. A selling dealer known for selling them is a plus, especially if the vin fits within a known grouping. If you're lucky maybe a BE rear that's dated to the car. But as far as engine and trans, while it would be nice to be original to the car, I wouldn't expect that much 52 years later.
Growing up around COPO's in the 70's and 80's I knew of about a dozen of them, with several close friends owning them (still own them today). They were all over the Cincinnati area and they weren't even that old at the time. Only 1 of them had the original engine and still does to this day. Most of them were run hard and put away wet.

The tags you really see fooled with a bunch are X code Z/28's. Probably X code SS camaros a close second. So many of these cloned now I'm just excited anymore when I see a real tag on a camaro that hasn't been removed and growing less concerned with what engine might be in it.

[x33rs]

If this helps at all, providing the body number wasn't changed when the repo tag was done, and I see no reason why it would be, that body tag number is only 3 digits away from another COPO I know that also came from Queen City Chevrolet in Cinci, and it too was an 05A build.

Queen City sold a bunch of these things and my guess is they were ordered in batches like a lot of other dealers did.

[purple panther]

Theres no question the Queen city copos were ordered in batches. The rumor has been they sold a 100 copos. i dont see that. 62 camaro sales recorded in may thru june. but there probably more due to buyers using them as pure race cars like ron terrells tin soldier.