NICB Question

[Carleen]

Some guys are sayning that there is more then one side on some NICB reports.
That are saying which engine it was delivered with.
Has anyone seen it or is it just a rumor?

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Wasn't it HP, not CID noted on some/not all reports?
We had past threads on this, I'll look tonight if someone doesn't find them sooner.
:beers:
~ Pete


.

[Mr70]

Taxable Horsepower was reported on states VIN records back then.
Very easy to decipher what engine those were.

[markjohnson]

Taxable horsepower is based on the bore of the block so it would not differentiate between a 396/325 or a 396/375.

[69LM1]

Here is a redacted one that I was able to get years ago, when they started to get strict. The blue box has a horsepower line.

I *almost* had deal with them (the Insurance Alliance) to buy/resell reports, but someone complained and threatened to sue, and the deal fell apart.

https://i.imgur.com/WbDdwAw.jpg

There are more pages, but people will get in trouble if we talk about them on an open forum.


/Rich

[X66 714]

That information looks alot like what's on a MSO....Joe

[bilede]

Yes, that horsepower info is on the MSO. As I recall it equates to cubic inch but not actually the specific engine. For example, a 427ci 390hp would be same as a 427ci 435hp number. It would be good info for a copo, z/28, etc for 69 I would think though but doesn't help the corvette guys to prove hi horsepower big block. A 302ci is 48.0hp as reference.

[markjohnson]

Yes, that horsepower info is on the MSO. As I recall it equates to cubic inch but not actually the specific engine. For example, a 427ci 390hp would be same as a 427ci 435hp number. It would be good info for a copo, z/28, etc for 69 I would think though but doesn't help the corvette guys to prove hi horsepower big block. A 302ci is 48.0hp as reference.

I’ll type this slower. Taxable horsepower does NOT equate to cubic inches but only the bore diameter. Also, a Z28’s 302 and Grandma’s 2-bbl 350 both have a 4-inch bore so will show the same taxable horsepower.

[markjohnson]

Bore Diameter X Bore Diameter X Number of Cylinders X .4 = Taxable Horsepower

[Ralph Spears]

What about FOIA Freedom of information Act

[njsteve]

They are not a government entity so no, a FOIA request is not applicable.

[George H]

I have a copy of the MSO for my car - L34 396. It show 35.0 HP on the delivery form.

[X66 714]

The MSO for my 69 Camaro say 53.6 & ship weight of 3522, ss396 325hp
The MSO for my 68 Camaro say 48.0 & ship weight of 3015, Z/28
....Joe

[302moz]

Interesting thing i owned a 396 camaro with the buildsheet years ago and it had 51.2 for the taxable hp. 100 percent positive it was a 396 from the factory . Must have been a mistake on the taxable hp? Has anyone else seen this?Always questioned this. I realize it should have been 53hp.

[302moz]

Joe your z/28 should be 51.2 hp not 48.

[70 copo]

FOIA's have been filed in the past with this issue. The DOJ then (at the least) utterly misrepresented the material facts to a member of congress, and (at the worst) perhaps just decided to lie.

When the trap was sprung they punted and told me to litigate.

There is no mystery here.

It is in screen shot format to minimize the cut and paste crowd... Enjoy:

http://www.67pacecarregistry.com/nicb-records.html

[69LM1]

FOIA's have been filed in the past with this issue. The DOJ then (at the least) utterly misrepresented the material facts to a member of congress, and (at the worst) perhaps just decided to lie.

When the trap was sprung they punted and told me to litigate.

There is no mystery here.

It is in screen shot format to minimize the cut and paste crowd... Enjoy:

http://www.67pacecarregistry.com/nicb-records.html

Yep, I had a deal in principle with Carfax and the oh so unnamed insurance historical company that begins with an "N" and ends in a "B". My company had just finished a project for Equifax on access to their credit systems for a client and I had the programmers locked and loaded for this project. Carfax was chomping at the bit to be able to charge for these reports. About two weeks from being inked and I still cannot believe the hate calls I got and the threats of lawsuits (several years ago) and the threats that the VP at carfax I was working with got.

Ultimately, everyone backed out on the fear of litigation.

Even the "sample" report I got as a written report (which at the time many here had never seen before) got someone nearly fired back then.

/R

[X66 714]

Joe your z/28 should be 51.2 hp not 48.

Maybe LA cars were rated differently....joe

[70 copo]

Yep, I had a deal in principle with Carfax and the oh so unnamed insurance historical company that begins with an "N" and ends in a "B". My company had just finished a project for Equifax on access to their credit systems for a client and I had the programmers locked and loaded for this project. Carfax was chomping at the bit to be able to charge for these reports. About two weeks from being inked and I still cannot believe the hate calls I got and the threats of lawsuits (several years ago) and the threats that the VP at carfax I was working with got.

Ultimately, everyone backed out on the fear of litigation.

Even the "sample" report I got as a written report (which at the time many here had never seen before) got someone nearly fired back then.

/R

And... I am confident that the DOJ did a litigation assessment and with the continuing pressure coming from Schmidt on the issue “suddenly” shipper documents were made available through the NCRS with redacted information.

There are no coincidences in politics.

[Carleen]

Does NCRS have the same Shipping data as NICB?

[70 copo]

Does NCRS have the same Shipping data as NICB?

Yes. The claim is that GM provided the documentation on its end and shipper info was "Found" and offered to NCRS.

[70 copo]

So if you believe this then GM just happened to find all of the shipper info to provide to the NCRS - while the same information managed to hide from the no holds barred physical search for any records initiated by Jim Perkins in the 1990's that had a budget and utilized a team of GM employees which came up with ZIP.

[1967Z28]

GM and the other car companies used to provide R.L. Polk & Co in Michigan with all the pertinent data on each car they sold and supposedly that included contact info for the original purchaser. Polk handled sending out recall info to the owners when those issues came up. The crime bureau people were not the only people with this information.

[Steve Shauger]

So if you believe this then GM just happened to find all of the shipper info to provide to the NCRS - while the same information managed to hide from the no holds barred physical search for any records initiated by Jim Perkins in the 1990's that had a budget and utilized a team of GM employees which came up with ZIP.

The information I had been told was that the conventional areas to seek this information were either purged or destroyed. The information provided to NCRS was found in the finance department archives.

[70 copo]

The information I had been told was that the conventional areas to seek this information were either purged or destroyed. The information provided to NCRS was found in the finance department archives.

Well Jim Died a coupe of years ago now, so I cannot call him. But he was explicit in the search and Finance was known as the area where the most records were likely to be retained.

His team found nothing after an extreme hand search of boxed records, so according to him it was pretty unlikely GM would just stumble across these records and then offer them up to the NCRS.

There are seldom coincidences where things just pop up.

[Steve Shauger]

Does NCRS have the same Shipping data as NICB?

The example of the NICB which Phil's link referenced as Exhibit C NY NICB report 4/1996 was from a car I own. In fact I called my local NICB office and was able to obtain 3 shipping records. This car was was sold at Baldwin Auto Co. and the date is listed as 7/19/67, where as the NCRS shipping record indicates 7/17/67. Not sure why there's a two day difference. Perhaps build , invoice & ship dates were used in different departments.

[70 copo]

Full NICB contains several different dates and other data that may or may not have been consistently reported-so yes a day off on two different reports is plausible.

[rlw68]

Yes. The claim is that GM provided the documentation on its end and shipper info was "Found" and offered to NCRS.

The NCRS records also includes the order number, from at least 1969 and later. This information is being kept private in order to use it in their Corvette document validation service for build sheets and window stickers.

For Chevy Fisher body owners the order number is right there on the trim tag. The trim tag could be matched to the VIN if this was included in the NCRS report. At this point in the game, I believe it would be helpful imho.


:hmmm: