69 Norwood VIN stampings

[72nova]

Hello everyone!
I'm new to this page and i'm trying to verify a Camaro built at the Norwood plant on or around the 4th week of March and I could use some help. I'm not at liberty to give specifics right now, but if I could see some photos of VIN and front pad stampings on blocks from that time frame it would be a big help. It doesn't matter what type of engine. If ya'll would PM them or post them on this thread it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! This is a great site!

[L72copocamaro]

Seriously?

[72nova]

yes. seriously

[Jonesy]

Post a pic of the engine pad stamping in question and lets see if we can verify it.

[72nova]

I can't do that right now. It's complicated. I know this sounds somewhat "fishy" but I can't explain at this time. If I can find what i'm looking for I will post it later. This isn't some sort of prank or scam. I honestly just need some examples of Norwood VIN numbers from the 4th week of March, 1969. That's it.
you may also call me at 785-639-1478
thank you

[72nova]

I can't do that right now. It's complicated. I know this sounds somewhat "fishy" but I can't explain at this time. If I can find what i'm looking for I will post it later. This isn't some sort of prank or scam. I honestly just need some examples of Norwood VIN numbers from the 4th week of March, 1969. That's it.
you may also call or text me at 785-639-1478
thank you

[COPO]

If you search through prior postings, you will see loads of 1969 Norwood stampings. Takes a bit of effort on your part.

[jeremy clark]

You're new so I don't expect you to know this, but There have been a lot of 69 Norwood VIN posted here over the years. I'm sure you could find quite a few examples here if you did a search of this page. Welcome to the site!

[X66 714]

By mid March I would think the vin is no longer in the area that you have requested...Joe

[72nova]

Thank you. When I went to use the "search" feature, the little window would appear below but if I tried to type it would disappear. I guess just not enough effort on my part. :haha: I'll try to "put my back into it" more next time:beers:

[72nova]

COPO I searched for two hours. I did find one photo but it wasn't what I was looking for Do you have any suggestions?

X66 714/Joe, I am looking for photos of VIN stampings. Thanks

[X66 714]

You're going to need to give this group a little insite of what you're trying to do if you want some real help. From what I'm reading, it looks like you're trying to do a forgery...Joe

[Lynn]

March VIN stamps are on the rough cast area on the bell housing flange of the block down by the starter. You will not likely find ANY clear pics of a VIN, unless it is a fake. They were not stamped very deep, and are normally NOT legible, except maybe two or three characters.

IMHO, they do not vary much from one month to another. Almost all are crappy. If you see one that is perfectly legible, there is a good chance, it is a fake. I have a few examples, but nothing from March that I am aware of. Pretty much all similar after Dec. 1968. All difficult, if not impossible to read.

Check this page out: http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#PartialVINs

"In the 1969 model year, the partial VIN for V8 engines was stamped in either of two locations: on the engine pad or near the oil filter. The alternator was moved to the passenger side in 1969 which covered the engine stamp pad and caused the VIN stamp to be relocated by the oil filter. The block in this area is raw unmachined casting which makes this stamp difficult to see. Generally, the Norwood plant stamped the VIN on the engine pad on early cars and moved the stamp by the oil filter in the December 68 time frame (there are a few known exceptions). Los Angeles was not as consistent and the VIN stamp location varied during the year."

[72nova]

I'm not trying to do a forgery. In fact, I'm trying to prove this one is not a forgery. The reason I can't post it is because the car belongs to a client and I don't want to go posting about his car on the web. I am familiar with the location and am aware that they are difficult to read. Thanks for your time

[X66 714]

I'm not trying to do a forgery. In fact, I'm trying to prove this one is not a forgery. The reason I can't post it is because the car belongs to a client and I don't want to go posting about his car on the web. I am familiar with the location and am aware that they are difficult to read. Thanks for your time

Send me a picture at [email protected]. I'll get an answer for you without posting it to the web....Joe

[Mr70]

I can't do that right now. It's complicated. I know this sounds somewhat "fishy" but I can't explain at this time. If I can find what i'm looking for I will post it later. This isn't some sort of prank or scam. I honestly just need some examples of Norwood VIN numbers from the 4th week of March, 1969. That's it.
you may also call me at 785-639-1478
thank you


72Nova
If you're new to this page,why are you using Jeremy Clarks' phone number? :hmmm:
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=167098

[Mr70]

You're new so I don't expect you to know this, but There have been a lot of 69 Norwood VIN posted here over the years. I'm sure you could find quite a few examples here if you did a search of this page. Welcome to the site!


Are you replying to yourself?
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=167098

[Billohio]

My Z is that time frame and the VIN will be by the oil filter. You should be able to find some good stampings here or the camaros.org site

[carnut4life]

72Nova
If you're new to this page,why are you using Jeremy Clarks' phone number? :hmmm:
https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=167098


Where's that popcorn emoji when you need it?

[SuperNovaSS]

72Nova or Jeremy,

Are either of you going to respond?


Jason

[Unreal]

Silence speaks volumes.

[6667ss138]

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=167013&page=3

March rear axle in that thread. And looking for March engine stampings. Not saying one has anything to do with the other. Could just be a coincidence.

[jeremy clark]

"72nova" is a coworker of mine. We don't work Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays -hence the "silence". I had asked him to join this site and instructed him to politely ask for examples of partial VINs from 03D Norwood blocks. I've only ever posted about one car on here and if I were to suddenly start asking about partial VINs on March Norwood blocks, it would be pretty obvious to anyone who could put two and two together why I was asking. I feel It would be unethical -that I would be doing the car and it's owner a disservice- to cause it's authenticity to come under scrutiny in a public venue such as this. But alas, the car's owner doesn't care what anyone thinks -so here goes...The reason I am looking for examples on partial VINs is because the partial VIN on the block has come into question. The font style of the stamping isn't "known" to certain people in the community. There seems to be a lot of people in this hobby that seem to think that they "know" everything no matter how obvious it is that they don't. The font style IS however, "known" to the man who was hired to authenticate this car and it has been "known" to him for many years. I will not mention his name out of respect for his privacy and because I don't wish to bring him into this shit-show. I will say only that he is extremely knowledgeable and his reputation is impeccable. So far we have at least 4 examples of this VIN stamping font from cars assembled in the same time frame. Contrary to what was so rudely suggested, I searched this site for almost 3 hours and was only able to come up with one example. I didn't feel that I could ask straight out what I was looking for, but had hoped that the members of this site would be kind enough to help a guy out.
If I were going to "do a forgery" I wouldn't be on here asking for info on how to go about it. I'd have done it in a "known" font and it would be done "textbook" for everyone who parrots and regurgitates the "known" to eat up. This car was wrecked in '77 and has sat untouched ever since. It's entire history is known. All of the previous owners are still around. The disassembly process was well documented...literally thousands of photos and plenty of witnesses. I'm not "forging" anything. The car is legit, it's "born with" engine is legit and it will be proven so.

Thank you to those of you who were helpful.

[Mr70]

"72nova" is a coworker of mine. We don't work Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays -hence the "silence". I had asked him to join this site and instructed him to politely ask for examples of partial VINs from 03D Norwood blocks. I've only ever posted about one car on here and if I were to suddenly start asking about partial VINs on March Norwood blocks, it would be pretty obvious to anyone who could put two and two together why I was asking. I feel It would be unethical -that I would be doing the car and it's owner a disservice- to cause it's authenticity to come under scrutiny in a public venue such as this. But alas, the car's owner doesn't care what anyone thinks -so here goes...The reason I am looking for examples on partial VINs is because the partial VIN on the block has come into question. The font style of the stamping isn't "known" to certain people in the community. There seems to be a lot of people in this hobby that seem to think that they "know" everything no matter how obvious it is that they don't. The font style IS however, "known" to the man who was hired to authenticate this car and it has been "known" to him for many years. I will not mention his name out of respect for his privacy and because I don't wish to bring him into this shit-show. I will say only that he is extremely knowledgeable and his reputation is impeccable. So far we have at least 4 examples of this VIN stamping font from cars assembled in the same time frame. Contrary to what was so rudely suggested, I searched this site for almost 3 hours and was only able to come up with one example. I didn't feel that I could ask straight out what I was looking for, but had hoped that the members of this site would be kind enough to help a guy out.
If I were going to "do a forgery" I wouldn't be on here asking for info on how to go about it. I'd have done it in a "known" font and it would be done "textbook" for everyone who parrots and regurgitates the "known" to eat up. This car was wrecked in '77 and has sat untouched ever since. It's entire history is known. All of the previous owners are still around. The disassembly process was well documented...literally thousands of photos and plenty of witnesses. I'm not "forging" anything. The car is legit, it's "born with" engine is legit and it will be proven so.

Thank you to those of you who were helpful.

You had 3 days to think of an excuse,and this is what you come up with?
BTW~You sure like to use quotation marks 72Nova,I mean jeremy. :D

[jeremy clark]

I didn't need 3 days. I didn't have to respond at all. No excuse. Everything I said is 100 percent true. Yes, I use quotation marks when appropriate.

[carnut4life]

If you and the owner are convinced the stamp real I wouldn't worry about what anyone else thinks. But if you want a second opinion, there are a few guys on this site that know as much or more about 69 Camaro's than the so called experts. I'm not one of them but the knowledge of the members on this site is absolutely incredible.

[70 copo]

Mr. Clark consulted with me about the issues present well before he posted here, and as you all know I have the Norwood VIN stamping tools and stamps under lock and key.

He is simply looking for information to explain a production anomaly which really is not an anomaly at all If you understand the Norwood assembly process and how the tool room functioned the interface with the transmission feeder conveyor and the motor line all on a day to day basis.

How about we all take a deep breath and put the hobby politics away for a while and try to learn something new?

[jeremy clark]

Thank you. I apologize if the way I went about seeking the information came off as disingenuous. I was just trying to protect the client's interests.

Something new?
Is 3955270 is a "known" COPO casting number? Discuss....:)

[Astock]

If the whole car has been untouched since 1977, the stamping would be true.

[bergy]

Just post the darn picture of the stamp with a couple of the digits blacked out. Also the assembly stamp. Geesh!!!

[jeremy clark]

Guess I might as well at this point
https://photos.app.goo.gl/weRnfhPQeB4bWbii7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5sGdpTn89JXW2cjf7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xvLEXwRLixW967L79
https://photos.app.goo.gl/D7ZB3yK9nuZTn8yi9

[X66 714]

This is the best I can make out of the block VIN...Joe

[jeremy clark]

Thanks, Joe. Those were the only pics I had on my phone. I'll try to post up some of the pics from the computer when I get back to work.

[X66 714]

Thanks, Joe. Those were the only pics I had on my phone. I'll try to post up some of the pics from the computer when I get back to work.

I think what you're doing for that car is wonderful. Sure would like you to take us on your jouney of progress...Joe

[70 copo]

Bergy,

The last time I posted a pencil tracing of a portion of valid stamping publicly here the administrator came in to the thread and promptly deleted it.

[jeremy clark]

sorry it took so long guys. i'm horrible with computers.

[jeremy clark]

.

[bergy]

Thanks. I'll let the experts chime in, but looks pretty good from here. My FG COPO had a POP with T0123MN assembly date. Same characters :-)

[cook_dw]

Block casting number is ‘270?

[jeremy clark]

Yes. Block was cast Sept 4, 1968 and was assembled Jan 22, 1969. Car is an 03D date.
WorkinProgress says he has an MN coded 270 block that was cast and assembled on the same dates as this one and was installed in an 04B car.
I have heard of at least one -possibly two other MN 270 blocks from other members of this site. I'm waiting to hear details...the one guy thought his was in an 05A car that he doesn't own anymore. That's all I know right now.

[WorkinProgress]

Jeremy, sent you a PM.

- Warren

[cook_dw]

I agree with Bruce. After seeing the untouched photos it’s legit imho. But I also am not an expert.

[Jonesy]

From what I see those stampings look legit to me.

[JamesinHBCA]

Mr. Clark consulted with me about the issues present well before he posted here, and as you all know I have the Norwood VIN stamping tools and stamps under lock and key.

He is simply looking for information to explain a production anomaly which really is not an anomaly at all If you understand the Norwood assembly process and how the tool room functioned the interface with the transmission feeder conveyor and the motor line all on a day to day basis.

How about we all take a deep breath and put the hobby politics away for a while and try to learn something new?

If you have "the" stamps maybe you should destroy or alter them so no one can ever correctly restamp an engine again.

Otherwise you just have "a" set of original stamps and there are many more out there.

[rlw68]

From what I see those stampings look legit to me.

Just the block stamps, or also the trans ?


:hmmm:

[Jeff H]

I see that VIN as a Canadian car. Does the owner have the GM of Canada documents to go with the car?

[jeremy clark]

Car is not Canadian. I don't know the difference between Canadian VINs and U.S. VINs but I'm thinking maybe you're misinterpreting something? The VIN is 124379N619394 was built at the Norwood plant, shipped to Mac's in Crete, NE and sold new in Lincoln, NE. Unfortunately, there is no paper documentation other than the NCRS shipping data, and an old registration.

[70 copo]

If you have "the" stamps maybe you should destroy or alter them so no one can ever correctly restamp an engine again.

Otherwise you just have "a" set of original stamps and there are many more out there.

Despite the obvious troll I will reply.

I am not in to destroying historical objects of any type and to suggest doing so is patiently absurd.

I have written two books on the Norwood Plant, assisted with a pending documentary work, interviewed (on the record) literally hundreds of workers.

Finally the artifacts. I have been blessed with a number of significant artifacts over the years including the stamps. After receiving them I took the initiative to interview the guys who used them, the workers who managed the motor line, other workers who issued the stamps, and explored other issues routinely presented by ARO's on the line.

This information does give me significant knowledge to share specifically with the hobby when a so called "anomaly" appears.

Several years ago I issued a $10K charity challenge to a gentleman on Team Camaro who said I did not "really" have the stampers and tooling.

JamesinHBCA--You want to take me up on it? I have a charity all selected and ready just let me know.

[Kurt S]

And JohnZ's picture of the stamper. :)

[70 copo]

And JohnZ's picture of the stamper. :)

Kurt,

You said that exact same thing the last time I posted a picture of the stamper here on this site.

Just so you know I checked with GM due to your previous comment. GM legal stated that If the photo was taken in a GM plant there is no valid claim creation possible, unlike the images GM provided for my research which was contractually stipulated for usage- and extent of usage - which means I have an enforceable copyright.

[Steve Shauger]

There's been a lot of good informative information shared. Could we please keep the tone civil, and not get into personal conflicts.

[Jonesy]

Im not being uncivil when I say thats a pic of my trans stamping from my 74 z28 thats XX'd out.
So I guess I have a part of that display :headbang:

Im fine with it, dont get me wrong.

[Jonesy]

Just the block stamps, or also the trans ?


:hmmm:

Both look good to me goggles

[Kurt S]

Just pointing out. That's the only know vintage stamper picture so you didn't have many options. You could just say - yup and thanks John for the picture. But instead....

[70 copo]

Helpful images:

[Kurt S]

Just so you know I checked with GM due to your previous comment. GM legal stated that If the photo was taken in a GM plant there is no valid claim creation possible, unlike the images GM provided for my research which was contractually stipulated for usage- and extent of usage - which means I have an enforceable copyright.
That's not how copyright works. If the picture was taken with GM's permission, then the photographer owns the copyright. It's that simple. GM can restrict picture taking, and often do.
Else Hot Rod, the AP, Motor Trend, the local newspapers, etc would not have the copyright to all of the pictures they took at GM facilities.
You have a copyright for your book, but GM still maintains the copyright to all the GM pictures in it.

[SuperNovaSS]

Why do I feel like I'm in a sandbox?


Jason

[olredalert]

Helpful images:

----I see the name M Hanson on these pics. Is that Mike Hanson? We used to have a very compitent mechanic at Classic Motors by that name. Same one? I know he moved to Florida a long time ago but haven't talked to him in years.....Bill S

[70 copo]

----I see the name M Hanson on these pics. Is that Mike Hanson? We used to have a very compitent mechanic at Classic Motors by that name. Same one? I know he moved to Florida a long time ago but haven't talked to him in years.....Bill S

Bill I am pretty sure it is a different guy... BUT he is the same guy who is apparently taking credit for also placing this image on the internet tho...

Indeed the same image that Kurt is droning on here about, and the same image that M. Hanson has openly taken credit for, and the same image that GM Legal says that if taken by a GM employee no valid claim can be made because the photo was taken during an employment context.

So to keep the peace: Credit to M. Hanson AND John Z, Kurt Sonen and the entire CRG, the Corvette people The NCRS and finally -General Motors Company.

There EVERYBODY should be happy now.:worship:

[70 copo]

Oh one more thing.. Now that we are finally looking at the Hi Resolution image - this stamper is clearly loaded with 1980's GM vin script stamps.

[70 copo]

Images are all posted here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c1-and-c2-corvettes/3804811-how-were-the-engine-pad-numbers-stamped.html

[70 copo]

Also posted here: http://www.camaros.org/enginedress.shtml

[cook_dw]

Car is not Canadian. I don't know the difference between Canadian VINs and U.S. VINs but I'm thinking maybe you're misinterpreting something? The VIN is 124379N619394 was built at the Norwood plant, shipped to Mac's in Crete, NE and sold new in Lincoln, NE. Unfortunately, there is no paper documentation other than the NCRS shipping data, and an old registration.

Is this COPO yours or anothers? Are there any restoration photos? Better yet more "as found" photos of the car that can be shared?

Outside of this thread.

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=167013&page=3

[jeremy clark]

There are many pictures of the car before disassembly and during -all the way up to it's current state. I would guess 1000 photos minimum. I will try to post more next week.

I am not asking anyone here to authenticate this car. There has been a man who specializes in 69 Camaros that has been tasked with writing a "report" on it. Wether his report will state that the block is original or not is entirely up to him. I was merely looking for other VIN numbers that were stamped with these same style/font characters in an effort to provide as many examples as possible to make my case that it is, in fact a "known" stamping font. If anyone here has a Norwood block with these same style characters (the way I understand it, the 6's and 9's are the ones being called into question more so than the others) and wouldn't mind taking and/or sending me pics of them it would be greatly appreciated. We have already found several examples, but the more examples we can find, the better. Thanks, everyone.

[JamesinHBCA]

Despite the obvious troll I will reply.

I am not in to destroying historical objects of any type and to suggest doing so is patiently absurd.

I have written two books on the Norwood Plant, assisted with a pending documentary work, interviewed (on the record) literally hundreds of workers.

Finally the artifacts. I have been blessed with a number of significant artifacts over the years including the stamps. After receiving them I took the initiative to interview the guys who used them, the workers who managed the motor line, other workers who issued the stamps, and explored other issues routinely presented by ARO's on the line.

This information does give me significant knowledge to share specifically with the hobby when a so called "anomaly" appears.

Several years ago I issued a $10K charity challenge to a gentleman on Team Camaro who said I did not "really" have the stampers and tooling.

JamesinHBCA--You want to take me up on it? I have a charity all selected and ready just let me know.

Not a troll and my suggestion to alter the stamps is just a joke because although you may have a real set of stamps, there are plenty more out there.

BTW it's the engine assembly stamps that are more closely scrutinized and you did not get those from the Norwood plant.

I am aware of your publications and the research you have done for the hobby. It just sounded like you where claiming to have the one and only set of stamps and tools used at the factory and that is just wrong.

[70 copo]

Thank you for your clarification. This is a thread on Norwood. I have no concern for other plants or tooling that may or may not have survived.

To be clear, I have the only known Norwood VIN derivative Gang stamper known to exist along with the stamps that were used. I also have the repair stamper that was used.

The fact that this tooling was saved was not by chance, It was saved on purpose by several workers BECAUSE of the specific production period history associated with the tooling.

I was chosen to be the caretaker was because I cared enough to invest myself in telling the story of these men - nothing more, nothing less.

[bergy]

Can’t believe that knucklehead is stamping blocks/Trans with a mushroomed tool & not wearing safety glasses. If that’s Norwood - their enforcement of safety equipment rules was pretty lax!

[70 copo]

The photos credited to Hanson are described as originating at St Louis Assembly and the black valve cover L-82 being stamped supports that description.

[olredalert]

The photos credited to Hanson are described as originating at St Louis Assembly and the black valve cover L-82 being stamped supports that description.

----I do know that Mike H spent time in the St.Louis plant and the dating of the valve cover would support that they might have been his pics.....Bill S

[70 copo]

Yes and I looked... the guy who posted them IS located in the state of Florida.

[70 copo]

Critter1 = Mike Hanson?

[olredalert]

Critter1 = Mike Hanson?

----Mike was a hell of a mechanic and knew early fuel injection inside and out. He was a big valued part of Classic Motors shop and taught a lot of us stuff we knew nothig about.....Bill S

[1967Z28]

Mike shared a lot of great information with me on crossrams and other Chevrolet high performance parts a number of years ago. He sent me some neat GM blueprints as well. A great guy and a wealth of knowledge. He also drag raced a '68 Z with a crossram on it back in the old days. Mike told me the car is still around.

[thehornworks]

This is a little off topic but I thought it was a good place to share. About 10 or 12 years ago I did as set of horns for a guy who was a Quality control engineer for Oldsmobile in the 70s. He said the quality control was bad nothing like today and it was not uncommon for 20 or 30 % of the cars coming off the line needing some type of repair. Any major repairs were taken and parked in a repair lot, sometimes 500 or more cars. Cars that were "Customer Order" got priority and they would rob cars on the repair lot of whatever they needed to get those repaired. He said even engines , carbs , anything because it was faster than going through the request procedure. Some cars got robbed so bad they were almost shells. When those cars were finally repaired they could have parts dated after the build of the car.

[Kurt S]

I admit confusion at this point. :)

[bergy]

This is a little off topic but I thought it was a good place to share. About 10 or 12 years ago I did as set of horns for a guy who was a Quality control engineer for Oldsmobile in the 70s. He said the quality control was bad nothing like today and it was not uncommon for 20 or 30 % of the cars coming off the line needing some type of repair. Any major repairs were taken and parked in a repair lot, sometimes 500 or more cars. Cars that were "Customer Order" got priority and they would rob cars on the repair lot of whatever they needed to get those repaired. He said even engines , carbs , anything because it was faster than going through the request procedure. Some cars got robbed so bad they were almost shells. When those cars were finally repaired they could have parts dated after the build of the car.

Maybe at BOP - St Louis assembly was nothing like that!

[70 copo]

I admit confusion at this point. :)

More than happy to help you out. The Norwood workers can accurately inform you about the complete operations of the following areas:

Salvage-Repair and Reuse operations.

Repair in the OK Lot.

Repair and rebuild operations in AGR.


More than Happy to help you BUT that would kinda require you to lift the ban over at the CRG. SO - that's entirely up to you.

[JoeC]

off topic but I'm wondering if they took pictures of that Corvette engine because it was the last carbureted Corvette engine? Last carbureted Corvette was 1981.
Or the last Corvette that rolled off the St. Louis assembly line on July 31, 1981?

[70 copo]

off topic but I'm wondering if they took pictures of that Corvette engine because it was the last carbureted Corvette engine? Last carbureted Corvette was 1981.
Or the last Corvette that rolled off the St. Louis assembly line on July 31, 1981?

Unknown. I contacted GM years ago about the images due to the claims being made that John Z (CRG) was due credit for one image I used in the stamper display,-despite the fact that M Hanson had already taken credit for the entire series of images, including the image contested here multiple times by Kurt.

[RPOLS3]

off topic but I'm wondering if they took pictures of that Corvette engine because it was the last carbureted Corvette engine? Last carbureted Corvette was 1981.
Or the last Corvette that rolled off the St. Louis assembly line on July 31, 1981?

I tend to agree with this - that looks like an L81 on the Corvette line.

[bergy]

70 COPO - Kurt contributes LOTS to our hobby with very little or no acknowledgment or financial gain. If you're banned from CRG, I'm sure that it's because of the bullying, argumentative style that we have all witnessed at times. Why not just try to act like an equal member of the community instead of trying to dominate it?

Just my 2 cents

[70 copo]

70 COPO - Kurt contributes LOTS to our hobby with very little or no acknowledgment or financial gain. If you're banned from CRG, I'm sure that it's because of the bullying, argumentative style that we have all witnessed at times. Why not just try to act like an equal member of the community instead of trying to dominate it?

Just my 2 cents

Bergy,

Good Just your 2 cents? Good then so I will speak to you as a forum participant and not as a moderator.

It is a fact that You have openly attacked me previously right here on this forum in several other threads and your bias is showing here buddy.

In addition members of the CRG have OPENLY attacked me here and on other forums for over 10 years now for simply telling the truth.

Lets all stop the petty politics shall we?

[Steve Shauger]

As I mentioned previously there was a lot of good information shared. We are well past that point and has now reached a point of ridiculousness.

This is not what this site strives to be or be a part of. There is a common pattern where these dialogues turn personal, negative and unacceptable. If this continues, it will not be tolerated. I will address those involved directly.

[70 copo]

Perhaps Jeremy can put the thread back on track with the pictures of the block?