NJ Steves Pit Viper Revival [Archive]

njsteve

08-20-2017, 01:01 AM

(The first portion of this thread is located in the Member's Rides section. It's here if anyone is interested in the first half of the story: https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83108 )

I pulled the cover off my own garage find today and decided to do an oil change. The last one was 9 years and 194 miles ago. After a brief battery charge she started right up. The oil that came out looked and smelled fine, of course. All ten quarts. And I was reminded how the wonderful oil filter set up was designed to apply liquid rust proofing right onto the passenger side frame rail so it can run all the way down both ends of the frame rail, avoiding all sorts of strategically placed drip pans, rags, and cardboard.

She has all of 8,143 miles on her now. The boy and I then took the old car out to the local cruise night and frightened the locals. Even though I got there at 3:00 PM, a guy already grabbed my favorite parking spot with his 2017 ZL1 Camaro that he just bought.

I forgot how stupid fast this car was. Jeez. It is a menace to society. If this doesn't get the boy in the mood to start learning how to drive a manual transmission, nothing will. He was too busy snapchatting photos of the car to his friends, to be watching how I was shifting. Maybe I have to snapchat videos of my shifting technique to him. That should get his attention.

njsteve

09-01-2017, 04:08 PM

I got the oil analysis results from the 9 year old oil (only has 191 miles on it). Looks like that old adage about having to change your oil every year before you store it, is something of an old wive's tale. Since there is no moisture, corrosion, fuel or coolant present in this sample after almost a decade in a non-climate controlled garage, and running it maybe once or twice a year.

Here's what nine year old oil looks like when analyzed:

Crush

09-01-2017, 04:15 PM

That is interesting info.. thx for sharing.

Burd

10-08-2019, 10:04 PM

Steve, I got something for you, I did the auto shows, I got a die cast at press in 1996, it’s blue w/ white stripes. Looks just like your Viper. It’s a Racing Champions die cast, hot wheels size, but it says Chrysler Financial on it, Not sold in stores. If you want it it yours. Looking to give it to a Viper guy. It comes with some kind matching badge too. Throw me the ship or buy me a beer lol. Leme know.

muscle_collector

10-09-2019, 12:02 PM

ive got the reverse color combo of yours. Ive never been able to really decide I like it. it is so different than any other car I have. weird how I feel like im sitting sideways in the drivers seat. crazy power like driving on ice. but it sure does get the looks going down the road.

just realized I posted on this thread I meant to post on your current one.

Burd

10-09-2019, 12:57 PM

Me too lol.

njsteve

10-09-2019, 09:16 PM

njsteve

02-27-2020, 09:10 PM

Trying to repost some of the original photos that fodobucket lost.

njsteve

11-07-2021, 12:43 AM

No good deed goes unpunished!

I have been driving the old viper to the gym every morning for the past couple weeks (when the weather was good) just to use up the 24 gallons of two year old gas in the tank. I was down to half a tank after going 90 miles so far. (7 mpg?)

Last week my son finally decided to ask me to teach him how to drive a manual transmission. Since he has eyes on getting this vehicle one day he better know how to drive it. We took it around the neighborhood and he didn't do half bad. The funny thing about using this car to teach manual transmissionship (if that's a word?) is that it has soooo much torque, you can't really stall it out by letting the clutch up too abruptly. So he did reasonably well for the mile he drove it.

Then comes this morning when I was going to go and fill her up with 93 premium after siphoning out the old gas/Stabil mix. I went to push in the clutch and it felt very low and ineffective. And it wouldn't go in to gear with the car running.

So I did a little research and it is either one of two things: The clutch master cylinder on the firewall...or the throwout bearing slave cylinder in the bellhousing. One is a half hour job and the other is a 8 hour job.

I opened the master cylinder filler cap and it was empty of fluid inside. I added some and could see it took a while to fill so it must have gone somewhere. No puddles under car anywhere. I tried bleeding the system but it didn't get any better.

I ordered both parts from amazon and we will see in week which one it was. I'm doing the master cylinder first since it only took a few minutes to get it out of the car although I did have to grind down an old 5/8" open end wrench to make the tool to release the fluid coupling at the bellhousing.

I did perform an autopsy on the old clutch master cylinder and a lot of black liquid came out (versus the clear fluid that came out of the bellhousing bleeder screw.) So maybe it is just the master cylinder that pooped out. But you know how my luck goes.

Fingers crossed!

njsteve

11-11-2021, 10:15 PM

The new clutch cylinder arrived yesterday from rockauto and I installed it today with a little help from the wife sitting in the driver's seat after she got home from work. YAY! That was the problem. So now I can return the throwout bearing slave assembly to amazon when it arrives.

And if you're wondering what that little plastic bottle zip-tied to the footwell-box near the clutch cylinder is, it's a homemade catch can for the power steering pump vent. Dodge in their infinite wisdom had a cap on top of the power steering pump that had a vented nipple pointing straight up. This made for interesting times when the car was driven in anger and the power steering fluid heated up, which then would geyser upwards and then onto the headers and left front brake assembly. So I just attached a length of fuel line and routed it to that catch can. Problem solved!

njsteve

11-13-2021, 08:14 PM

Oh well, so much for hoping the leak was that simple...I checked under the car today and there's a puddle of fresh brake fluid under the bellhousing leaking from the throwout bearing slave cylinder.

DOH! and I yesterday I cancelled the shipment from Amazon before arrival and now Amazon shows none available. Same with all the local parts stores.

I just spent several hours hunting down another one (LUK LSC134) slave/bearing assembly. Found it on ebay.

You can find the slave cylinder without the bearing at Rockauto but the Vipers are very finicky about the bearing installed heaight so the factory demands you install a preassembled bearing and slave assembly. Oh and did I mention the NOS Mopar bearing assembly is $390? No thanks, I'll use the LUK version which is the one the factory used anyway.

So the wait for arrival starts again.

I'll start pulling the trans out tomorrow. It least I dont have to totally remove it, I can pull it back and let it sit on the trans jack and then remove the bearing/slave assembly.

njsteve

11-14-2021, 08:36 PM

Got the transmission "detached." I won't say removed because I just pulled it back far enough to get the slave cylinder and throwout bearing off the input shaft. This way the transmission is still in an aerial holding pattern that is a straight forward shot into the bellhousing.

Of course my 15 year old Harbor Freight transmission jack failed as I was about to attempt the uncoupling. Luckily the floor jack was still under the engine and was holding the entire drivetrain up at the time. I remembered it failed before when I was pulling the transmission out of Grampa's Lincoln three years ago so it was about time to run back to HF to get another one. Luckily they had it in stock with a 10% off coupon today. Too bad they dont just sell a new cylinder for these damn things.

Anyway, you can see that the slave cylinder did in fact fail which seems to be a common occurence on Vipers from what I have seen while googling the interwebs.

I figure that in 28 years of ownership (which includes 8,000 hard miles in the first 5 years and then over two decades of sitting idle), this is the first actual drivetrain component to fail. The only other parts that have gone bad are one wiper motor two years ago and the grey flocked, fuzzy dash finish that decomposes on all Gen 1 Vipers.

I used several bottles of brake clean so far to flush and wipe away the residue inside the bellhousing area. I never had a problem with the clutch and it appears that all the leakage was travelling toward the transmission and away from the clutchplate itself. When I closely examined the interior of the clutch plate it was dry and surface rusty looking with no evidence that the fluid got between the disc and the plate. I don't want to replace the clutch assembly since that's another item that the aftermarket does not seem to get right (from other googling research) with the majority of the clutch kits mistakenly including a C5 Corvette disc instead of the 24 spline Viper disc. And when they get the disc right they get the installed height wrong. One guy had to pull his transmission 4 times to get the clutch working properly and in the end gave up and used his original clutch plate and disc.

Lynn

11-14-2021, 10:18 PM

I understand the reasoning behind that style of slave cyl. I just don't think the pros outweigh the cons. I needed to change the clutch slave on an old BMW last week. Took about 10 minutes.

Having to pull the trans is a huge pain in the butt on many cars.

njsteve

11-16-2021, 10:07 PM

It's been a crazy few days. I have ordered and reordered the slave cylinder four times now. It seems that every time I order what is listed as "in stock and ready to ship" it turns out to be a "we will charge your card and then look and see if our suppliers have it" scenario. That goes for Amazon, Ebay, Rockauto, Advance Auto...Still waiting on refunds from three of them after they cancelled my orders unilaterally.

I supposedly have the throwout bearing itself due for delivery tomorrow from rockauto but I ran into all sorts of issues getting a slave cylinder. Finally I reached out to a Viper parts specialist who recently commented on a posting on one of the Viper enthusiast websites that he sponsors. He said he had a couple of the original Mopar complete slave cylinder assemblies with bearing. (Chrysler current PN5037357 & original PN4642581) He pretty much bought up the last few units that were still available before they went obsolete years ago from Dodge. So he is shipping me the real deal factory part. It cost around $250 (bearing included) delivered.

The funny thing about the Viper parts guy (Bill Brobst) http://www.viperpartsrack.com/index.php?route=common/home is that I met him at the First Viper Owner's invitational back in 1994. My newly-wedded wife and I went to this event in order to celebrate our first wedding anniversary. (my idea of coure). She even got a "good sport" award for attending from Dodge management. The award still hangs in the garage. :-)

Anyway, Bill said in his email "It was actually HER that I remembered first!!"

I had to laugh at that comment. And then he sent me a link to the original Dodge video that they did to document the crazy event. The wife, the car, and I are featured in several sections of the video including at 32:20, 35:04 and 36:26.

jGJkh0KFcCM&ab_channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGJkh0KFcCM&ab_channel=HavikPerformance

njsteve

11-20-2021, 08:57 PM

The new slave cylinder and throwout bearing arrived yesterday. I was taking a close look at the original 1992 vintage slave and bearing and saw something interesting. See if you see what I see. :-)

njsteve

11-20-2021, 08:59 PM

And the shiny, NOS Mopar slave and bearing. No manufacturer logo on the plastic bearing carrier.

njsteve

11-20-2021, 09:01 PM

Well it took some time by myself but I managed to get the slave cylinder, throwout bearing, and aftermarket 48-inch bleeder relocation hose installed. It took several hours to get the transmission back in place, manhandling it on my own, but by 6:30 PM it was bolted back up and the clutch system was fully bled with the help of my Award-Winning Wife. Tomorrow the rest of the hardware gets bolted back up and it will be time for a test drive.

And here's her award from 1994:

njsteve

11-22-2021, 09:16 PM

I got to use some of my old parts that were hidden in the basement. I remembered having a few of these but this was the last package from back in the day. Look at the date on the package. May, 1992

njsteve

11-22-2021, 09:17 PM

And just like the children's book, "If you Give A Mouse A Cookie", I had to do something else to the car since it was up on jackstands. I decided to flush and refill the cooolant. I had replaced it in 2003 or so, but the car didn't go anywhere - maybe 200 miles since then? So I let everything drain from the radiator petcock over night. It was pristine and green though only tested to be about -10 degrees for antifreeze effectiveness on the hydrometer. I got 15-1/2 quarts out in to the catch basin. I am now in my second day of attempting to burp the system of all the excess air. I only got around 14 quarts back in. I have been refilling it via the heater core valve line. (It's a 93, remember?) But I still had a bunch of air in the system on startup and the gauge went to about 210 before I shut it off. No heat out of the heater core. I let it cool down and the then was able to put another half a quart in. I started it and it hung around 195. (Still too hot for this car). The next day I used a tall funnel (about 18' tall, so the coolant going in was higher than any portion of the cooling system.

Those crazy heater core lines are not the highest point in the cooling system. The feed and return hoses drop down behind the engine and then rise up higher then the heater core inlets in order to reach the thermostat housing at the back of the block. I even tried lowering the back of the car to ground level in order to get the radiator higher. Not sufficient. I was able to get more coolant in today for a total of around 15-1/4 quarts. (Capacaity is 16 quarts). At least now the heater works and I can see the heat readings on my infrared heat gun. I test drove it and the temp was around 190 and I could see the needle fluctuate to 180 when the thermostat would open. There is still air in the upper radiator hose and you can hear it when you squeeze. I will let it cool down and try to add more tomorrow.

I do remember twenty years ago doing this and it also took several tries over several days to get it burped of all the air.

njsteve

11-22-2021, 09:19 PM

Another day, another burp-athon-apalooza-fest of the V-baby. I got another quart in today! Took almost 30 minutes using the measuring cup filled with around 1/8th cup of coolant at a time. First, I popped the radiator cap off, and topped it off with around a half cup til it was at the top. Then I put the cap back on and disconnected the heater hose line and rotated it upwards. I also added a four-inch section of heater hose to the heater core nipple so I could see the level rise and fall without it just dribbling out. With the little funnel, I just trickled in an 1/8 cup at a time into the heater hose, watching it slowly drain down the funnel, until I went through an entire gallon of 50/50 mix. I reconnected everything and started her up again. Once warmed up the gauge hung around the 185 zone after a drive around the block.

BTW, this is one of the early 92/93s that still had the yellow zone on the gauge. It brings back such entertaining memories of back in the day driving the car in Florida heat with the gauge hovering at the right side in the yellow/red zone. After numerous complaints by southern Viper owners, Dodge sent out a very detailed TSB that essentially said "Ignore the yellow mark on the gauge. Your car isnt really running hot, You're imagining this, Pay no attention to the ViperTech behind the curtain with the infrared heat gun that indicates your radiator is running at 225 degrees..." yada-yada

Dodge in their infinite wisdom removed the yellow marking on the gauge for 1994 (and upgraded the radiator...and electric fans...and shroud...and added more coolant capacity...but that's just a coincidence)

njsteve

11-24-2021, 10:25 PM

Last day of coolant filling and rechecking. She only took half a cup today and was finally full. Started her up and took her for a drive. Ran steady at 175 to 180 (I think). When driving at operating temperature the needle sits on the left slash of the three middle hashmarks. Hard to actually tell the real running temperature since the gauge starts at 0 and goes to 250. In the middle of the gauge are three hash marks with a "190" under them. But if you cut 250 in half, it would presumable be 175 at the halfway point in the gauge? When I use the infra-red thermometer, the temps on the heater hoses, return lines, and radiator hoses range from 140 to 190. So, anyway, I'm done with the coolant refresh.

And you can see the infamous yellow zone on the gauge that Dodge decided to remove for 1994 so owner's couldn't complain of the cars running in the gauge's hot zone any more.

On to the brake fluid flush next. I used Castrol SRF back when I last changed it in 2,000 and it looks absolutely pristine in the master cylinder at the moment. Very expensive but it is the best stuff on the planet when it comes to highest temperature boiling point. Back when I used to race the car, everything else I tried would boil and lead to brake pedal fade and air in the system after a few laps. This stuff lasted the longest under the Florida track heat.

njsteve

11-27-2021, 10:14 PM

Hand-polished the extra set of rims for the Viper today. I have a new set of tires coming in hopefully next week. Michelin is the only company still making the rear tires in the correct 17" size. $400 a tire! No one else makes them (other than Hoosier)

I figure it's time for new shoes since the newest set I have is 28 years old.

These are the original BFG R-1 racing tires from the first year they were introduced in Viper sizes. 275/40ZR17 and 335/35ZR17. We did the some of the first testing for BFG in the Viper sizes, with the SCCA Solo 1 and 2 racing we did back then.

Before and after. (Dogs for scale). And cat because he liked seeing his own reflection. That is the true test of a polishing job - if an apathetic cat will stop to look at himself.

njsteve

11-30-2021, 09:34 PM

I bled the brakes over the weekend. All the 20 year-old Castrol SRF that came out was still crystal clear. Amazing stuff. It's DOT 4 with the highest dry/wet boiling point (594/518 degrees) you can find.

I remember back when we were racing and I tried various brake fluids, you had to bleed the brakes after every run because the fluid would boil and make the pedal spongy. After I switched to the SRF, you could go the whole day of racing and wouldn't have a problem til the end of the day.

njsteve

11-30-2021, 09:48 PM

UPS delivered the new set of tires this morning. I just got back from picking the wheels and tires up after getting them mounted and balanced. The new Michelins Pilots barely took any weight to balance them. Around a half ounce per wheel.

njsteve

12-01-2021, 09:19 PM

New spark plugs arrived from rockauto today. Got the Bosch 9656 double iridiums. They were $4.96 each with discount! Finally replacing the vintage Splitfires I installed way back in 1993. (Yeah, I know, the follies of youth).

njsteve

12-01-2021, 09:20 PM

I got the passenger-side bank of plugs out. They actually look really nice for 8,000 miles and 27 years old, give or take a year. Burn pattern on the electrodes looks nice.

olredalert

12-01-2021, 09:45 PM

njsteve

12-01-2021, 09:53 PM

He actually thinks he is a dog but no one has the heart to tell him otherwise. He ignores our other two cats (who shun him anyway), and he spends all day lounging around with the two dogs. When they come in from doing their duty in the back yard, he sits right down next to them and demands the same dog treats that they get. He just aint right.

njsteve

12-02-2021, 03:43 PM

Speak of the devil...

njsteve

12-04-2021, 08:31 PM

Got all the plugs changed yesterday. It sure is fun trying to get your hands under/around the headers to reattach the spark plug terminals. I guess my hands got bigger with age.

Took her out for a spin today and she runs very crisply with the new plugs. Also rides really nicely on the new Michelins and my old polished rims. Very smooth and not as "hocky-puck on ice-ish" as the 28 year-old XGTZ's.

Today I also spent an hour pulling the sidepipe shields off because I heard the mufflers squeeking and the outlets moved when I went to jiggle them. Turns out that the large clamp holding the head pipe to the muffler had loosened since I last looked at them in 2000. The Borla XR-1 racing mufflers were installed when I put the headers on in 1999. Prior to that, I ran stock manifiolds with another set of XR-1s.

Back in the day I used the factory exhaust mount upgrade kit #4897970AA that was listed in the TSB from decades ago. My recept file shows I bought the kit in July, 1997 and it cost $26.97 at the time.

That kit was made available by Dodge because the 1992's and 1993's up to VIN #105 used two-piece exhaust manifolds and those crazy coil springs and shoulder washers & bolts to mount the exhaust directly to the frame. Gee what could be bad about that? Everybody likes to hear a V10 basso-profundo rumble with some high-pitched squeeky contralto to compliment it. Think about it: mounting an engine/trans to the chassis with rubber motor mounts and then solidly mounting the side pipes to the frame rails with spring-loaded brackets could only lead to loosening/breakage at the exhaust mounting points.

Just for trivia info, the 1993 cars prior to VIN #105 (this car is Vin #102, built in January 1993), were essentially continuations of the initial run of 1992s that were built up til the end of December, 1992. I had originally wanted a 1992 as a project car but the earliest that the New Mack assembly line could schedule the build on this car was in January which made it technically a 1993 model.

The early 1993's used the 1992 two-piece exhaust manifolds and the solid exhaust mounts with springs and bolts. After 1993 VIN #105 they went to the single piece manifolds with the flex pipe to attach the cat/muffler assembly and the upgraded/isolated hanger system.

The 1992's and early 1993's also had an external radio antenna, and a fully circular fuel filler hatch with a thumb cutout in the quarter panel instead of the filler cap.

The later 93's were updated with a windshield-mounted antenna and the new style fuel filler hatch lid with a thumb cutout in it and no indent in the quarter panel. From what I recall in conversations with the assembly line people, the fuel filler hatch/quarter panel and the windshield-mounted antenna were running changes on the line with no set VIN number start point. Other running changes included the moving of the battery box from underneath the trunk to the wheelwell, and the change in the number of air relief cutouts in the rear valance. These were things I found out during my tour at the Viper assembly plant when I watched my car getting built in Jan, 1993.

njsteve

12-04-2021, 08:32 PM

Some details of the aforementioned idiosynchracies of the early 1993 cars.

njsteve

12-04-2021, 11:43 PM

Back in 1999 was the last time I had my 93 on a dyno. It put out 404 hp and 471 lbft of torque with SVS headers and Borla XR1 mufflers on a chassis dyno. The prior exhaust was the two-piece stock manifolds and no cats, with 3" Borla XR1 mufflers.

While the overall power output numbers were similar, there were improvements in the lower range with the headers. Compare the red line (with headers) to the blue line (with factory manifolds). I guess it shows how well the factory two-piece manifolds flowed: overall they were only 2 horsepower and 11 pounds of torque, less than the headers!!!

I attached the original dyno sheet (ignore the green line and the "new computer" comment: that related to the dyno shop's laptop computer which crashed and altered the existing data files and correction factor)

njsteve

12-06-2021, 09:41 PM

Over the weekend I was moving all the old Viper rims and tires into the basement and cleaning up and sorting various Viper stuff. I found my box of slide albums from when I worked at Mopar Muscle Magazine back in 1990 to 94: I located the looseleaf notebooks full of the pages and pages of slides taken during my visit to the New Mack Assembly Plant in January, 1993. Hundreds of slides. Now I have to figure out a way to scan them into digital form. Anyone recommend a particular scanner device for this? I may have several hundred slides to do.

During the tour of the plant they told me not to shoot certain things (upcoming model stuff) but gave me free reign for others. For example, I shot a lot of photos of just racks and bins of parts so future restorers could know the exact finishes/dcals that were present at the time the cars were built.

njsteve

12-13-2021, 12:01 AM

One of the interesting issues that has popped up in the Viper community is the VIN #105 cutoff point for the two-piece to one-piece exhaust manifolds.

Here are the pages from the December, 1995 parts book. See the notations on part #6, manifolds. Interesting to see that the left and right manifold are the same part for either side for 92 and early 93, just the lower extension was different.

Different intake manifolds, too, based on the same VIN break.

njsteve

12-13-2021, 12:06 AM

Holy Crapoly, I wound up falling down a rabbit hole, here. I just did a random search of prior listed 1993's on Bring a Trailer, ebay, google, etc. I found 35 of them ranging from Vin 55 (a January 93 built, heavily modified, Hennessey car) to VIN 1040 (which is 15 cars from the last 93 VIN#1055) of the total 1,043 cars built in 1993.

It seems that Dodge obviously did not build the cars in VIN order. (something I now remember from seeing cars on the line).

I made a spread sheet with all sorts of variables, including one or two-piece manifolds, fender or windshield mounted antenna, notched fuel filler lid or quarter panel, "Viper" or "R/T-10" labeled calipers, yellow mark on the temp gauge or not, battery under the trunk or fender. I also noted the date of manufacture from the door tag when available in the listing.

How is this for crazyness: the earliest one-piece manifold I found was VIN 500 built in July 1993. And the latest two-piece manifold car was 903 built in May 1993.

So it looks like there was a jumble of various previously VIN-assigned cars with high numbers/low numbers being built in random order during the model year - maybe due to defects or parts availability? Who knows, but here is what I found:

Do you notice the interesting trends? The carry-over 1992 style, two-piece exhaust manifold/frame-mounted mufflers are always present in conjunction with a fender-mounted antenna, trunk mounted battery, and round fuel filler lid with the thumb depression in the quarter panel.

njsteve

12-13-2021, 07:34 PM

By the way, in case you're wondering why anyone would care about this crazy minutiae, I guess I am into weird details.

I imagine the 1960's assembly lines were the same way. People 50 years later are trying to document whether a car was legitimately made during a specific batch of builds (such as COPO orders). Well, here is a semi-recent example (if you can consider 30 years ago, recent).

Also for some reason there is a big premium being paid by Viper enthusiasts for "Antenna Cars" which are the 1992s and the early 1993's which have the fender mounted antenna. And, which according to the Chrysler parts records, were thought to all be vin #105 and below, but I guess I just stumbled across an anomaly that conforms they could be any VIN up through the entire production sequence of 1043 cars, only that they had to have been built between January and May 1993.

njsteve

12-14-2021, 10:49 AM

Voila! Someone on the Viper website found this original 1993 newsletter entry from Dodge that explains the VIN anomoly - VINs were preassigned and they built them in geographicly based batches so the could ship them 6 at a time to specific regions. So there you have it!

njsteve

12-27-2021, 08:29 PM

I decided to move on to the next maintenance project on my old car: the sagging headliner. This hardtop has been on the car since back in late 1994 or so.

In early 1994 we did some of the preliminary high speed testing of the upcoming accessory hardtop with a mockup that Dodge supplied us with. The unit they sent us was a very heavy, solid fiberglass version of what later became the factory optional unit. Sadly, I had to send the "heavy" top back after we used it for several months of racing. It really helped the aerodynamics of the car at the time and I was sad to see it go. That prototype hardtop was smooth underneath and had no headliner at all.

Eventually I was able to get a regular production hardtop from the guys at Dodge to replace it and had it painted to match the car. That's the top you see in these photos.

The headliner started sagging last year (or that's when I actually noticed it). I was wondering how the thing is actually attached since the later versions use some push pins around the perimeter. This one is simply glued into place around the edges and in the center and that's all that keeps it up there. It uses an ABS plastic form that is approximately 42"x25". The headliner is spray glued to it and wrapped underneath. With some gentle prying it came off very easily as the green adhesive holding it to the underside of the top was very brittle with age.

After ripping off the fabric, I spent around an hour removing the nasty foam residue. It was just powder and actually scrubbed off by hand leaving all that headliner adhesive remaining on the ABS. Then came the hard work. The best stuff to remove that adhesive is actually 3M Headliner Adhesive Cleaner/Remover #08987. Spray it on a small section at a time and let it soak, then scrub with a rough cloth. It rolls the residue up into little balls like rubber cement and then you can brush it away. This stuff seems to be the least aggressive type of solvent and works specificaly on headliner adhesive versus using something like lacquer thinner which is very aggressive and can damage the plastic material itself.

I have ordered a yard of automotive-grade, black headliner material which should be in this week sometime. (fingers crossed)

njsteve

12-27-2021, 08:30 PM

Both sides of the headliner insert before cleaning.

njsteve

12-27-2021, 08:31 PM

And here's how she looks topless. That roof has been on there for over 26+ years, now.

njsteve

12-27-2021, 08:31 PM

The ABS plastic headliner backing panel once all the old adhesive residue was removed.

njsteve

12-27-2021, 08:33 PM

Time to clean off the old adhesive on the underside. It was some type of green epoxy resin. Some areas were flaking but others stuck like...glue. So I got out a heat gun and used my wife's oil-paint palette knife. That worked great. All I had to do was slip the blade under a loose spot and then gently slide it along and most of the outer perimeter glue came off several feet at a time.

njsteve

12-27-2021, 08:35 PM

I then used the 3M 08327 Semi-Rigid Parts Repair epoxy and put down a bead in the same areas where the old green glue was. I then placed the headliner panel on it and covered it with some old towels and around 45 pounds of weights to press it in place. The 08327 cures in around 5 minutes so you have to work rapidly in laying down the glue.

njsteve

12-27-2021, 08:35 PM

And the final result:

KevinW

02-22-2022, 07:46 PM

Steve, I found these in one of my parts boxes, an image search came up on a 94 Viper for sale ad. You want them? Or should I chuck em? :)

njsteve

02-23-2022, 11:20 AM

I can always use more license plate screws. I never seem to have 4 of the same style so that makes them super duper rare! I PM'd you.

njsteve

10-12-2022, 07:26 PM

I've been driving the Viper the past few weeks to use up the 22 gallons of fuel in the tank in time for refueling and winter storage. We took the car to a couple cars and coffee events and had a lot of fun with it. This old relic is gonna be 30 years old in four months!

During the recent drive my son noticed that we had no back up lights, no brake lghts, no flashers, and only one turn signal working. Great!

So I pulled the tail light lenses and replaced several of the 29 year old, 3157 bulbs. That got us the turn signals working and the flashers but still no brake lights or backup lights.

So I crawled underneath the dash and looked at the brake light switch. It was very hot to the touch! So I pulled it out. I took it apart and noticed all the contacts were tarnished and causing so much resistance that heat was building up but no contact was being made in the switch. So I used an fingernail emery board and cleaned them up and reinstalled the thing. (I also ordered a spare unit since any parts for this thing are either unavailable or in the process - it turned out the unit is from a Dodge truck and is made by Standard Motor Products under part S-151 so I ordered one for $25). I reinstalled the switch and YAY now the brake lights work again.

I figured the reverse lights were due to the switch in the transmission no longer working from being parked in reverse for so long during storage, so I ordered one of those which is still available from Mopar for $29. Since that required putting the car up on jackstands and pulling the big transmision skid plate I figured I'd change the 29 year old transmission fluid at the same time.

I tested my bad switch hypothesis by jumping the two terminals on the wire connector and the lights lit up. Bad switch, it is. I swapped out the old switch for the new one and YAY we have reverse lights now too!

Now here's the bug in the ointment. These cars came with a T56 6-speed which used Dexron II(E) as the lubricating fluid. In 1994 Dexron II was replaced with Dexron III which was OK'd by Dodge for use in these transmissions. In 1998, Dodge put out a very specific TSB stating that the fluid in all Viper transmissions should be upgraded to Mopar ATF+4 to avoid neutral gear rattle...all EXCEPT the 1992 and 1993 cars. It had something to do with the blocker rings and synchros in the early transmissions being made of a material that was not compatable with a synthetic fluid. So...I had to find actual non-synthetic Dexron II or III. And of course the current Dexron VI synthetic is out as well.

I searched and eventually located a currently available, cheapo non-synthetic AC/Delco version that is called ATF Type III(H). It turns out that no one can call it Dexron III any more because GM no longer licenses it to be made under that trademark.

I also decided to drain and refill the rear diff as well. Luckily this is a very early car that actually has the drain plug in the rear diff. Shortly after this car was built, they did away with the drain plug and those owners have to suction out their diff for maintenance (not fun).

I did take a sample of both fluids and sent it off the Blackstone labs for analysis. I'll update when the results come in.

And if you're wondering what all the little yellow specks are in the photos: I ran over an Osage Orange (Maclura Pomifera) while coming home from the cars and coffee on Sunday. The frikken things are as big as a grapefruit and are all over the local roads around here. I thought it would clear the underside but it struck the front crossmember and then got neatly sliced in half by the transmission skid plate as evidenced by the section sitting on the plate when I removed it this morning. So now the underside smells citrus fresh! So I got that going for me.

njsteve

10-12-2022, 07:35 PM

Here's that TFFKAD-III (The Fluid Formerly Known As Dexron) III(H) that you can currently get under the genericly named "Type III(H)" since Dexron is no longer licenced in its prior iterations as it is now considered "the name that shall never be uttered again" AC/Delco part number 10-9240

njsteve

10-18-2022, 11:24 PM

Since she is up on jackstands I am still "mission creeping". I was greasing all the ball joints and tie rod ends when I noticed that all the sway bar link rubber boots have turned to rubble. They were a clear poly material originally and have totally decomposed after 29 years. Don't even get me started on what a new set of sway bar links go for if you could even locate an NOS set of the unique 1992-95 links - try around $300 each!!! And no one makes replacements.

There is some Viper parts place out west that advertises a new set of boots for $200 !!! (The dreaded Viper tax) Seriously guys? You can just measure the flanges and then shop for replacement boots on the net.

Before I started measuring and searching someone recommended I give Tator's Garage a call http://www.tatorsdodge.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJwLljA_2hI&ab_channel=LewisboroTV

So I used some ball joint pullers and got the links off today. They were all in perfect shape other than the boots. I was able to make contact with Chuck Tator at Tator's Garage last night. (they were formerly known as Tator's Dodge, est in 1908 and they were the oldest Dodge dealer in the world, when Mopar decided to cancel their franchise during the bloodbath of 2008 when they killed off 1/3 of their dealership franchises because they were not multi-branded.) They were also one of the largest Viper dealers for Dodge back in the day.

I left a message for Chuck and he called me back at 8:30 this morning and said he was mailing out the new set of boots for $40 and needed my address. I then asked if he was ready for my credit card info. He replied: "I don't do credit cards - the bank takes too much money. I just send out the parts and an invoice and you can send me a check when they come in." He even encloses a stamped, self addressed return envelope.

Holy Cow! It's like I'm back in olden times.

njsteve

10-19-2022, 11:14 PM

One day later, they arrived from Tator! :-)

$45.50 for the boot set including a stamped, self-addressed envelope for payment. I rounded up and sent him a check for $50 just for the helluvit.

Easy install, The small ring clips go on first and are easy to slid over the flange. You then grease up the joint and slip the seal over until the big flange goes over the collar in the link. Then you gently wrap the large spring clip around while holding the end in place. Takes some practice but by the 8th one I could do it in around 15 seconds.

A12pilot

10-23-2022, 01:50 AM

Chuck is the man for the Viper parts. When I redid all the stuff on my 97 GTS he’s the one that supplied the most needed parts. Invaluable resource. How are your tires? Jon B is a good source for those. Every five years Michelin makes a run of the these tiny diameter rubber bands. Miss it, and you’re ten years away from a new set!:rolleyes2:

Cheers:beers:
Dave

njsteve

10-23-2022, 01:32 PM

Tires! Yeah no-one really makes the 335/35x17 out there other than Michellin (and Hoosier?) once in while for this application.

When I replaced the throwout bearing earlier this year I sprung for a new set of Michellins from Jon B. The old gal drives real nice now.

The old XGTZs she was sitting on were "somewhat" unsafe at this point. I have several sets of zero-mile, assembly-line Michellin XGTZs that Team Viper gave me, that are 30 years old and would make for perfect restoration sets but otherwise could double as hockey pucks if Andre the Giant played hockey. No cracks in the rubber but they are fossilized plastic now.

The XGTZs were dangerous tires even when new as the rubber compound they developed for this application gave zero transition warning when it was about to lose grip at the edge of adhesion. And with the 50/50 weight distribution, the cars would instantly swap ends, repeatedly, until they hit something immoveable that would stop the spin. Lots of 1992 and 93 Vipers were wrecked due to the XGTZs when they were new. Dodge pretty much immmediately went to the Michellen Pilot series as a replacement after about a year or two for the Gen II cars with the updated (more drive-friendly) suspension (1995 to 2002). The Gen I cars had basically a race car suspension and took a lot of focus to drive safely.

njsteve

10-23-2022, 02:11 PM

Here's the suspension details. The factory installed, fixed spring, Koni shocks were sent back to Koni in 1993 and they installed the adjustable spring perches for aftermarket Eibach springs.

I have been on the phone with Koni and Eibach this week trying to find the correct spanner wrench for adjusting the spring heights in case I ever want to mess with the settings. Back in the day I uses a 5/16" drill bit inserted into the adjuster hole in order to spin the spring perch. Not too easy with 500 lb rated springs. Neither company makes the wrenches so I had to search to find an old style round tip spanner for a 82mm perch. It should arrive tomorrow. All the modern perches now employ a square adjuster slot and use a flat, hook style wrench.

FYI, In 1996, the Gen 2 suspension replaced everything you see here with forged aluminum control arms, different shock/springs and a totally different articulation geometry that made the car much easier to keep in a straight line and much more forgiving to newbie owners. It was a night and day difference. They also added airbags, roll up windows, and actual door handles on the outside of the car. Simply preposterous, I tell you!

Too cushy for me though. I like the brutality of the belligerent, original, Go-Cartosaurus Rex.

njsteve

10-23-2022, 09:35 PM

My early birthday present arrived!

An NOS Gen 1 Viper Steering Wheel still in the box. My original one has all sorts of scuffs, nicks, and scratches in the leather from 30 years of abuse. I'll retire the original one up into the storage closet for safe-keeping.

olredalert

10-24-2022, 02:57 AM

----Steve,,,Steering wheels are great garage art. Hang it up!....Bill S

njsteve

10-24-2022, 03:38 AM

Good idea - maybe my son will get it for his birthday which is a couple days after mine!

njsteve

10-24-2022, 08:33 PM

The spring perch wrench was delivered today. It's a hefty piece of iron, indeed. $50 worth. And it fits, too: an added bonus for sure.

njsteve

10-26-2022, 11:04 PM

I got the transmission oil analysis back from Blackstone. Looks good for 27 year old Dexron (Torco Synthetic version that I filled it with around 1995). I guess I changed it just in time as it just hit the .1% insoluables level. :-)

Waiting on the rear differential and engine oil results next.

njsteve

10-26-2022, 11:24 PM

And I finished the engine oil change I started over the weekend and sent off the sample to Blackstone.

It had 5-year old Valvoline traditional 10W30 with around 500 miles on it from the last change in 2017. I went with Mobil-1 10W30 this time. These big engines take 9-1/2 quarts to fill. And I used a Wix 541085XP filter. As far as I know, it's the best filter there is on the market.

A good friend of mine has a vintage case of STP Oil Treatment from 1973 and he gave me one to throw in the Viper.

It's got the good old oil additive stuff in it from when we were kids!

It's got real sugar I tell ya. None of that fancy, schmancy high fructose corn syrup for my baby.

njsteve

10-27-2022, 04:00 PM

I've started hunting down extra spare parts for the car when they pop up cheap on rockauto. They actually have some dealer closeouts of the early Gen1 front and rear inner tie rods. TRW units for $11 each as wholesaler closouts. I got four of them. They still have some left. (BTW they're actually a Dodge Dakota truck part!)

And a Early Gen1 1992-93 waterpump for $135. Original box was chewed up but the waterpump and O-ring were fine inside. This stuff is gold!

njsteve

10-31-2022, 10:31 PM

I got the rear differential fluid analysis back from Blackstone and got quite the shock: Looks like there's a problem. The 3.55 gear set was installed back in 1994 and this is the fluid that has been in there ever since. it has a total of 5,000 or so miles on it - mostly at speed on the track. I asked them what the minimum amount of mileage they need on the new fluid can be before I send them another sample to be retested.

Luckily I have that spare NOS diff sitting on my basement floor.

njsteve

10-31-2022, 11:43 PM

The memories are coming back slowly now after checking my old records. The rear diff in the car now is one that Team Viper sent me as a spare back in 1994. This was the paper tag that was wired onto it. Note what it says:

REMOVED FROM
COUPE #1 on
9-2-93
NOISY

I guess it's actually a piece of history since it came from the first Viper Coupe show car. :-)

And the other tags are from the NOS rear differential that I got under warranty after the first one blew up at Sebring at around 145 mph on the short straight coming into the 25 mph hairpin. I heard a "ping" ricochet sound from the back of the car on the straightaway and then smelled rear diff fluid. When I got into the pits there was what looked like a bullet hole originating from inside the rear diff at the very top of the case. The ring gear bolts had loosened and one shot clean through the case and out onto the track somewhere. Luckily the hole was at the top and nothing leaked out onto the tires. And it missed the gas tank. THAT would have been a significant emotional event at 145 mph.

So to continue racing that day, I trailered the car home to Lakeland, pulled the damaged diff and put in the "COUPE #1" diff and then went back to the track the next morning to race some more. The following Monday I went to Jerry Ulm Dodge in Tampa and they got me the NOS 04709414 rear diff, overnight from Detroit. The labels are all that was left since the diff arrived unpackaged, in the remains of a carboard box soaked in 75W140. The diff had been prefilled with gear lube and of course it all leaked out of the top vent and dissolved the box. Luckily the labels were still good enough to save.

njsteve

11-01-2022, 04:23 PM

I spoke with the lab tech at Blackstone about the diff today. He said the results could be from of a combination of heavy early use from extensive racing back in the day, combined with subsequent surface rust from 25 years of storage since these diffs have an open air valve at the top that can let in moisture. He recommended driving it a few miles and then flushing it again, maybe with a good internal soaking with solvent and let it sit, then drain it fully again and hose it out with a couple cans of brake clean. Then refill with fresh 75W140 and additive and drive it. Then sample in a hundred miles. If it comes back as fresh oil with no contaminants it may be good. Versus it showing new iron contamination at a similar level, then its time to swap out the diff and perform an autopsy.

njsteve

11-02-2022, 11:35 PM

So I took the old gal out for a 100 mile trip today with the new diff fluid in to see if it helped as I was going to take a new sample and send it back to Blackstone.

I got back home and put her on jackstands and drained all the fluid out. While I was doing that and rotating the wheels to get any leftover gearlube off the gears I could hear a "tinkling" and "clicking" sound inside the differential. Sounded just like busted roller bearing with a broken cage and the roller shifting into place after a short movement.

So out comes the old rear and in goes the NOS 1994 differential that I've been saving for 28 years. To get ready, I dragged it out to the garage and set it up to drain the old clean fluid out. It looked nice and amber-colored until the last of it was coming out and then a lot of yellow marking compound was coming with the fluid. Can't get any "newer" than that. I'll let it drip over night and then refill with new 75W140 and additive made in the 21st century, versus the old pre-turn of the century stuff that came out.

Too bad the service replacement Dana 44 differentials didn't come with drain plugs like the assembly line 92/93 units.

A12pilot

11-03-2022, 12:35 PM

That’s awesome, Steve-O. I’ve got a spare ECU for my Gen II GTS among a couple other parts. I really wish there were a better aftermarket for these. I’d like another, but prices are nuts. Stuff starts wearing out on these and 1990 starts looking and smelling like 1990:rolleyes2:

BTW, fun fact: I have the same radio in my shop in about the same condition. Standard Jersey issue I believe!:eek2:

Cheers:beers:
Dave

njsteve

11-04-2022, 10:27 AM

Yup, Standard issue Jersey radio given away at every NJ motor vehicle department while you're waiting in line, along with a pair of parachute pants and Bazooka bubble gum.

I think that ECU might be worth something if you post it one one of the Viper sites. It's the old OBD-2 style that has to be reprogrammed with a computer to tune it. But the cores are very hard to find.

Yeah, it's crazy to think I bought this thing new 30 years ago. I've owned it half my life! It's the first car I bought when the wife and I were first dating.

njsteve

11-04-2022, 09:53 PM

I got the old diff out in about an hour. It's kind of like one of those bent nail puzzles trying to work it out between the narrow frame rails regardless of whether the half shafts are still in the car. I actually remember the secret formula of move it left, then move a half shaft back, move it right then move the other half shaft forward and then heave it left again and there is 1/4" of wiggle room by the front of the right frame rail to get one ear down and then...it falls on your chest.

njsteve

11-04-2022, 10:01 PM

Ok, so who is good at diagnosing gear patterns here?

Looks to me like the ring gear and pinion have been devouring each other. Also, I can hear that loose roller in the pinion bearing when I turn the pinion flange and the is a bit of clunky backlash in the pinion. Much more than the NOS rear has.

So did the bad bearing cause the pattern to change or was that a byproduct of the gear pattern being set badly and the the contaminated fluid ruining the pinion bearings?

njsteve

11-04-2022, 10:09 PM

I rechecked my old pile of records and it looks like they were an aftermarket set of 3.54 gears I had installed back in 1999.

njsteve

11-04-2022, 10:23 PM

At least I got some new wall art out of it. And luckily I kept the original set of 3.07 gears that I took out at the time. If I want to get this diff redone, I'll just use that set and get it all refurbushed.

And here's the original set of 3.07 gears from basement for comparison of the wear pattern.

njsteve

11-06-2022, 02:40 PM

NOS rear diff in place and ready for winter!

njsteve

11-07-2022, 09:50 PM

I got the engine oil sample results today and everything looks good for 500 miles and 5 years of use.

Tomorrow I'm dropping off the 3.54 rear differential at my favorite old-time machine shop to refresh. Hopefully they can reuse the 3.54 gear set, otherwise I'll have him revert it back to the origina 3.07 gear set I saved. Always helps to have a spare handy.

njsteve

11-13-2022, 11:40 PM

At least for the moment I have my wall art nice and clean and ready to hang up. It has been soaking in Purple Stuff for the past 5 days. It cleaned up nicely. Awaiting the report from the machine shop next week.

njsteve

11-16-2022, 08:53 PM

The machine shop called me today. He pulled apart the diff and found that pinion bearing race had some marks in it.

He asked if I used synthetic diff fluid and I said yes.
He then asked if the car sat a long time without driving. I said yes.
He said that was the problem.

In his decades of experience, synthetic differential fluids don't have a good fluid film thickness for long term storage like traditional fluids have. He said the races got abrasions from lack of lubrication and the rollers basically made corrosion divots in the races. He also said the synthetic diff fluids seem to attract moisture more than traditional fluids. That would explain the test results showing the presence of water in the fluid.

So he will replace all the bearings and seals and set the existing 3.54 gears back up. (which he said were fine and just need the depth adjusted a little.)

njsteve

11-29-2022, 08:09 PM

Picked up the 3.54 diff today. Total cost was around $750. More than half of that was the bearing kit and seals.

Looks like Blackstone was right on the money. It was devouring the bearing rollers in the main pinion bearing, which was contaminating the fluid with iron.

That was also the "tinkling" sound I heard. The rollers in the main pinion bearing were probably around 75% of the size they should have been. And all the races were showing severe brinelling. The main pinion bearing race was bad enough that you could catch your fingernail in the divot at the 12 o'clock position in the photo.

njsteve

11-29-2022, 08:12 PM

Here's the main pinion bearing. Notice how high the roller is in the first photo. And then how low it drops in the second. Now compare them to the third photo next to the low mileage pinion. You can see how worn the rollers are on the bad bearing compared to the low mileage bearing on the right.

That was the "tinkling" I could hear when I rotated the yoke and heard the roller drop to the other side of the cage slot. The damn thing is so loose it sounds like a tamborine.

njsteve

11-29-2022, 08:15 PM

And the shiny, clean diff with the 3.54 gears all reset and ready to go.

njsteve

12-02-2022, 11:57 PM

I contacted the techs at Blackstone to send them some photos. They always appreciate the feedback when their analysis is confirmed with real-time photos/data. They were quite excited to see the reason behind the fluid's iron contamination.

njsteve

12-06-2022, 08:57 PM

$50 clutch slave cylinder hack for the unobtainable 1992-2010 factory part and LUK LSC134

After seeing some mention on facebook about a workaround for the unobtainable clutch slave cylinder for 1992 to 2010 Vipers, I decided to test out out the rumor. And it is absolutely true.

The $50 Luk LSC002B is EXACTLY the same unit as the no-longer-available $300+ Luk LSC134 or the double that price, equally unavailable Dodge factory replacement part. Same base, same height, same inner diameter, same shaft diameter, same throwout bearing.

The only difference is the bleeder and the pressure fitting.

All you have to do is tap out the roll pin that secures the pressure fittings on your original slave cylinder and the new LSC002B, and then swap them, along with the rubber seal. I ended up reusing the rubber seal from my original slave cylinder as the pressure fitting flt tighter with it than the new seal on the shorter fitting. Then tap the roll pin back in. You then swap out the original longer bleeder for the short one on the LSC002B, or use as most people do, install an aftermarket remote bleeder line for easier bleeding.

Here are some camparison photos of my original 1992 vintage slave cylinder and bearing, and the new LSC002B in the middle and a Sachs SO536/SH6151 (a relabled LUK LSC134 under a different brand name).

BTW, the LUK LSC002B is a Ford/Mercury application. For example, it fits the 1989 Thunderbird with a V6 and manual transmission.

njsteve

05-27-2023, 11:20 PM

Well I finally installed the rebuilt 3.54 rear differential today. It took a leisurely three hours with water/food breaks in between. Boy those diffs are getting heavy or I'm losing my ability to bench press underneath a car.

I think it's time to finally get myself a four post lift so i can get off the ground when working on these things.

After the install, the boy and I went for some Italian ice at the local Rita's. And of course forgot that this damn 30 year old relic doesn't have any cup holders. (First World Problems)

Not a sound from the rebuilt rear. Not that you could hear anything anyway with the open side exhaust blasting in your ears. But it was smooth sailing anyway.

He said he wants us to bring the Viper to the next cars and coffee event. He said there were too many Hellcats there last time and we didn't stick out enough. LOL

njsteve

07-03-2023, 01:43 AM

Well, looks like the boy has the whole Tremec 6-speed thing down pretty good. After driving his 2011 Challenger 6-speed for the past couple weeks we tried him out on the Viper today. Amazing. Not a stall or anything even close to it! We went for a 10 mile cruise around town and back, and got home just before it started raining (again).

He did mention that he likes the mushy factory shifter in the Challenger much better than the super-short-throw racing shifter in the Viper.

Looks like I have to start hiding the keys since he now knows how to drive it, no problem.

njsteve

02-27-2024, 12:09 AM

I had to pull the radiator from my January-1993-built Viper yesterday after seeing a puddle of antifreeze under the nose.

Just a heads-up in case anyone out there mistakenly thinks you can pull the radiator from a 1992 or 1993 (with the early style dual fan set up and filler neck) by following the one-hour Gen II procedure. NO WAY!!! It's an 8-hour job on the early cars.

The first two years of production used a fiberglass front bulkhead that holds the radiator in front of it, in the space between the bulkhead and the front fascia. There is NO opening to the rear and the shroud is part of the bulkhead itself. Only the fan motors are removable. The mid-year 1993 with the removable single fan unit and the fender-mounted reservoir, and the newer 94 and 95 (and Gen II) use a front bulkhead that had the radiator mounted behind it facing the engine and a removable fan shroud. On the Gen II you can unhook the rad hoses and the top mounting nut and pull the radiator out in the space between the engine and the bulkhead in a matter of minutes, even with the hood still attached.

On the 1992/93 Gen I, cars you have to remove the hood, remove the hood latches to get the cables out of the way and then remove the entire hinge assembly, which is nearly impossible because 2 of the 3 mounting bolts are underneath the headlight pods, then disconnect and remove the A/C condensor, if so equipped. Because the early cars have that radiator filler cap on the radiator, there is no way to maneuver the radiator the required 5 inches or so to get the inlet and outlet out of their respective holes in the bulkhead while clearing the radiator filler neck around the hinge mounting point. And no, you can't pull the front fascia off to get at the headlight pods because the early 92 and 93 cars used a giant styrofoam reinforcement inside of the fascia that wraps around and over the aluminum crash bar, which wont come out either, when you remove its mounting bolts because the side edges of the front fascia wrap around the inner fenders in a way that will crack the paint and the plastic if you attempt it in anything under 90-degree weather.

So in the end, I used an insane combination of 1/4" and 3/8" drive universal joints, straight and swivel head sockets and some wooden and plastic wedges to pry the headlight pods the extra millimeter or two up, so I could get to the last hinge bolts under the headlight pods.

I then dropped it off at Fingers Radiator Hospital in North Brunswick, NJ this morning. They have been in business for over 95 years! They do amazing repair work. They will be recoring it as a 3-core instead of the factory 2 core.

https://www.fingersradiator.com/fingersradiator5v1_002.htm

Just thought you might want to know.

njsteve

02-27-2024, 12:17 AM

And you gotta just love the 1993 factory service manual that intricately described the removal procedure as follows:

Step 1: Remove hood and hinges.
Step 2: Unbolt radiator.
Step 3: Remove radiator from vehicle
To replace, reverse procedure.

Just like a 1970's Chiltons manual. Jeez

And by the way, most of my angerfullness is due to the fact that those unobtanium headlamp pods are going for around $10,000 a pair at the moment in the event I damaged them in the process. Sure glad I have an extra NOS set that I got under warranty back in 1993.

A12pilot

02-27-2024, 11:31 AM

Man, I’m glad that wasn’t the deal with my 97 Gen II GTS, Steve. Massive improvement on that. I did what you did but upgraded to a 4-row and that really helped. Did all the common Gen II things too: idler pulley, PS pulley, hoses, PCV, water pump, etc. I even added two extra smaller cooling fans to the AC condenser which really helped the lack of air flow. I miss that car! I remember doing the brakes and when I got to the rears I thought, “Did these come off a Neon?” The pads were about as big as a flip phone. Painted the calipers red and it was comical to see those tiny things in the wells.

256889

They seemed to have come back down to realistic prices again, but definitely higher than when I bought mine for $40k.

Cheers
Dave

njsteve

02-27-2024, 11:36 AM

Yeah, those brakes! Here's a funny factoid: the "giant" brakes (for the day) on the front of the Viper are actually the exact same Brembo calipers that come stock, on the back of our Hellcat Redeye. Talk about progress!

And there was also the infamous move by Dodge when all the owners of the early cars complained about how the cars were running hot and that the temp needle on gauge was always in the red zone...What did Dodge do as a fix?...

...They removed the red zone from the gauge for the next model year!

A12pilot

03-02-2024, 12:25 PM

That car would never run 180\190. There’s too much heat in that engine. 220 was normal on my end with no overheating and I never drove it above 90 outside. Too blasted hot!:3gears:

I’d love to get another, but it seems parts are starting to get really scarce and as the 1990s “quality” parts disintegrate, you’re not left with many options other than more 90s junk to replace. A buddy had a Gen II and he had all interior parts leather wrapped. Smelled like a dead ox in there, but it looked REALLY sharp! But the invoice…..:no::no::no:

Cheers
Dave

njsteve

03-02-2024, 12:50 PM

Yeah, that fuzzy, grey finish on the entire dash plastic is a nightmare for Gen 1 owners. I think the same era Ferraris have the same problem. It all turns to a sticky goo. I was able to stabilize mine by wiping it down with Prep-Sol. No one makes a reproduction paint to replicate the fuzzyness.

Down in Florida, the car would run insanely hot. We were in touch with the engineers at team viper at the time. Best advice was to unplug the A/C compressor and then activate the A/C - it turned the A/C button in to a full time dual electric fan on/off switch. That was good for 10 degree reduction...and it wasn't like the A/C did anything in an open car with no windows in Central Florida in August.

The recore should be done next week. They estimated around $695 to convert it to 3-core from a 2-core. He said the prices went way up due to the copper costs rising a lot. My previous recores with them (the 70 Cuda and Grampa's 71 Lincoln) were around $500 a few years ago.

njsteve

04-03-2024, 01:29 AM

Got the radiator back in. It took about a month for the core to arrive so they could assemble it. Beautiful job they did. I installed it Sunday and used one of those new-fangled vacuum purge contraptions to refill the coolant. Amazing what technology can do! I kind of miss spending a week filling and refilling the coolant through a funnel into the heater hose inlet on the cowl with the car's nose one foot higher than the tail. Anyway, She's back on the road now and reading for drivin'

Of course I did have to wait for my son to get home from the gym so we could install the hood and start the car to check for leaks...I kind of forgot that I couldn't open the car doors to get in with the hood sitting on the roof, and covering the sides of the doors. (sitting on several car covers and a papa-san chair cushion for protection.)