ON fire and adrift

[70 copo]

A container ship full of really nice cars that is. The ship is currently not under command... .

Lamborghinis on board as well.


https://www.thedrive.com/news/44330/cargo-ship-full-of-porsches-and-vws-is-on-fire-and-adrift-in-the-atlantic

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/17/1081620129/porsche-volkswagen-burning-cargo-ship

[AnthonyS]

Gah!

[dustinm]

At least its not 4000 muscle cars

[Tommy]

Lithium battery fire?


Tommy

[parkbrau]

Lithium battery fire?


Tommy
They are still cooking off.

[PeteLeathersac]

"

Great everyone's off the boat and safe but even if they do get the fire out and save the ship, the cargo will be a total loss after being subjected to such high temps.
Too bad it's not a shipload of burning Teslas although EM would somehow spin it into another win for his group...while everyone else including the environment suffers on.
:tongue:
~ Pete

.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

:beers:

.

[Woj]

The Porsche Dealership my nephew works for had 20 cars aboard.

[Too Many Projects]

The Porsche Dealership my nephew works for had 20 cars aboard.


GONE
Wow, that has really gutted out since the first pics I saw yesterday.
I agree with Pete, they need to get that into a dry dock so it doesn't sink and create environmental damage.

[70 copo]

"The ship is burning from one end to the other everything is on fire about five meters above the water line."


https://gcaptain.com/felicity-ace-car-carrier-continues-to-burn-in-mid-atlantic/

[70 copo]

Mark 48 improved Advanced Capability torpedo would be the humane way to end the suffering and the smoke.

The hit would break her back and she would be on the bottom in minutes.

[Lee Stewart]

Mark 48 improved Advanced Capability torpedo would be the humane way to end the suffering and the smoke.

The hit would break her back and she would be on the bottom in minutes.

The ship is worth $24.5billion. Who picks up the tab for that? Insurance won't cover an intentionally sunk ship.

Recovery is planned for next week.

[70 copo]

The ship is worth $24.5billion. Who picks up the tab for that? Insurance won't cover an intentionally sunk ship.

Recovery is planned for next week.

Well let’s look at the facts.

It is a class D Fire. These fires involve combustible metals so extinguishing agents may react with a combustible metal fire causing the severity of the fire to increase.

If it burns itself out then the Law of Salvage can be applied:


The vessel must be in peril, either immediate or forthcoming; the "salvor" must be acting voluntarily and under no pre-existing contract; and the salvor must be successful in their efforts, though payment for partial success may be granted if the environment is protected.

Who is going to authorize that risk?

The ship is currently a maritime hazard and is an environmental menace. Unless the fire is out nobody will allow the ship to dock. It is an explosion hazard.

Because the fires will need to be smothered to extinguish-access to the burning parts of the ship and the logistics of the recovery would be literally epic and would risk life to do so.

The best and safest way to end this and save the environment - is to sink it.

[Lee Stewart]

Well let’s look at the facts.

It is a class D Fire. These fires involve combustible metals so extinguishing agents may react with a combustible metal fire causing the severity of the fire to increase.

If it burns itself out then the Law of Salvage can be applied:


The vessel must be in peril, either immediate or forthcoming; the "salvor" must be acting voluntarily and under no pre-existing contract; and the salvor must be successful in their efforts, though payment for partial success may be granted if the environment is protected.

Who is going to authorize that risk?

The ship is currently a maritime hazard and is an environmental menace. Unless the fire is out nobody will allow the ship to dock. It is an explosion hazard.

Because the fires will need to be smothered to extinguish-access to the burning parts of the ship and the logistics of the recovery would be literally epic and would risk life to do so.

The best and safest way to end this and save the environment - is to sink it.

The owner of the ship has already contracted with tow boats from a Netherlands company to go get the ship. On board will be fire experts to deal with the fire.

[70 copo]

The owner of the ship has already contracted with tow boats from a Netherlands company to go get the ship. On board will be fire experts to deal with the fire.

I know what is being reported.

Grab a bowl of popcorn and let’s see how it actually plays out.

They are trying to cool it with sea water now. So far it’s not working.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

The 1/2 Billion cargo loss figure may be close but ship itself not worth 24.5 or even 2.45 if decimal in wrong position.
Luxury Cruise ships twice the width/length including full amenities have been built recently for under 1.5 so how could something much smaller w/ just vehicle ramps and tie-downs cost more?:hmmm:
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[Lee Stewart]

'

The 1/2 Billion cargo loss figure may be close but ship itself not worth 24.5 or even 2.45 if decimal in wrong position.
Luxury Cruise ships twice the width/length including full amenities have been built recently for under 1.5 so how could something much smaller w/ just vehicle ramps and tie-downs cost more?:hmmm:
:beers:
~ Pete

.


According to software company Skytek, the estimated market value of the ship is $24.5billion (£18billion.)

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1568596/cargo-ship-fire-porsche-bentley-audi

[Lee Stewart]

I know what is being reported.

Grab a bowl of popcorn and let’s see how it actually plays out.

They are trying to cool it with sea water now. So far it’s not working.

The ship has value as a hulk. They will never sink it. Dream on.

[70 copo]

The ship has value as a hulk. They will never sink it. Dream on.

Happens all over the globe all the time. The fire on this ship is not normal. It is a class D fire. If it burns its way to the ships fuel tanks that is gonna be very bad indeed.

imwLc2T3oks

[70 copo]

SINK IT was One of the lessons learned from the 2019 "Grande America" cargo ship disaster. This ship caught fire and sank off the coast of France where over 2,000 cars were onboard. The fire was tremendous along with the associated toxic damage to the environment.

On board the Grande were super cars such as the brand-new 911 GT2 RS customer cars that Porsche had to actually reproduce from scratch all over again to replace them.

Story Here:

https://www.nautilusint.org/en/news-insight/news/grande-america-sinking-shows-profitability-more-important-than-crew/

Video:

hfE-5QyUg4Y

[70 copo]

Finally there is the 2019 Golden Ray disaster. This car carrier is similar to the Felicity Ace.

Capsizing in shallow water, the Ray was finally slated for demolition and later caught FIRE while being salvaged. This ship became the poster child for bad salvage contracting.

Look at the ultimate cost of bad decision making:

stUxI55EqmA

[70 copo]

Todays update on the ACE says she has now developed a list to one side. NOT good.

https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/local/2022/02/20/cargo-ship-fire-luxury-cars-felicity-ace-destination-rhode-island/6860627001/

[Charley Lillard]

When I ordered my 2021 Porsche I was able to follow it thru production and on its journey across the ocean with tracking to within the last 15 minutes. Glad I wasn’t tracking my new car that happened to be in this ship. That would be really depressing.

[70 copo]

This interview is 24 hours old now. No change from what we know just more confirmation of how bad the situation really is:

The blaze is fed by the lithium-ion batteries in the electric vehicles on board the ship. Lithium-ion batteries ignite very easily and water does not put out their flames. However, at the time, it remains unclear whether these batteries started the fire or were just caught up in it.

The fire is a complex one. It is currently too dangerous for firefighters to go on board the ship so they are tackling it from outside by attempting to cool down its structure.



"The fire is still far from the ship's fuel tanks. However, he did warn that the blaze was getting closer adding that "everything was on fire about five meters above the waterline."

"Firefighters are now in a race against time, attempting to subdue the blaze before it reaches the ship's fuel tanks."

Link:

https://interestingengineering.com/firefighting-boats-felicity-ace

[70 copo]

In the most recent interview the lawyers said the quiet part out loud:

"London-based law firm Watson Farley & Williams said in a recent report that although it is not clear whether electric vehicles are more likely than ICE vehicles to catch fire, it is common ground that the consequences are potentially more disastrous and more difficult to handle.

“If crews are not aware that fighting an EV fire requires a different technique to that employed in fighting a conventional fire onboard, it is easy to see how an incident could lead to a total loss. The evidence indicates that current suppression and drenching systems will not be sufficient for this new risk. New systems will need to be devised and incorporated into ship design,” stated the law firm."

Link: https://splash247.com/firefighters-struggle-with-burning-electric-vehicles-aboard-felicity-ace/

[70 copo]

So IMO there are a few options:

1. Let it burn out and hope it does not reach the fuel while doing so.

2. flood the holds with fire water to cool the battery packs enough to extinguish the massive internal fires.


#1 has risk because the hull of the ship is burned through in several places already and any rough seas could stress the heat damaged hull sufficient to get her to take on water and risk splitting her in two.

#2 has risk because to get enough water in her to cool the fires could also require the fire tugs to sink her through the addition of fire water. Here is where the already present list factors in. She will continue to list to a capsize position.

Davy Jones says:

[70 copo]

Current details of the status of the ACE are sketchy. She is in the process of being brought under tug control and efforts to cool the exterior hull have increased with the arrival of additional fire ships. The ACE is reported as still unsafe for crews to board.

But one thing is fairly obvious. Nobody is currently permitted to release any imagery of the ongoing firefighting efforts.

We can all speculate as to why of course.

LINK:

https://www.fleetmon.com/maritime-news/2022/37269/mol-car-carrier-fire-abandoned-atlantic/

[earntaz]

It was reported this AM it will be towed to the Bahamas ... ???

[70 copo]

Here is the official information website that has been set up.

Link: https://www.felicity-ace-information-centre.com/

[70 copo]

Reporting out of Australia speculates that all vehicles aboard are now destroyed.

Link: https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/new-porsches-reportedly-destroyed-in-carrier-fire-update

[70 copo]

Here is a screen grab from the IMO International Maritime Organization home page for the ACE showing a pronounced list to the right side.

[70 copo]

Video of the fire posted here.

Really hits home on the night video segment as to just how devastating this fire is.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/abandoned-cargo-ship-felicity-ace-113706181.html

[Rfish]

With the pressure / Volume / Density of that smoke, pardon the pun but that thing is Toast!!!

[70 copo]

Autoweek is now reporting the fire as out citing sources within the Portuguese navy.

The official incident page has no update posted yet for today.

Looks like they let it burn out.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a39181217/felicity-ace-ship-fire-is-out-but-why-do-car-carriers-have-such-trouble/

[Too Many Projects]

It seems they had no way to extinguish the fire anyway. Only option was to let it burn out. Glad it didn't sink, but why tow it to the Bahama's ??? I doubt they have any facility to deal with this mess.

[Lee Stewart]

It seems they had no way to extinguish the fire anyway. Only option was to let it burn out. Glad it didn't sink, but why tow it to the Bahama's ??? I doubt they have any facility to deal with this mess.

The article I read said either Europe or the Bahamas - which is puzzling

[70 copo]

According to the official incident report page (dated for today) the ship is reported as still on fire.

https://www.felicity-ace-information-centre.com/

[70 copo]

If they can keep afloat, they are going to need calm calm equatorial seas to tow her through. Choppy seas will swamp her due to the potential for holes in her side just above the waterline, and also likely because the fire has changed her ballast characteristics.

These big ro-ro vessels are known to be prone to roll over in choppy seas if not balanced properly when loaded.

Who knows how much the balance characteristics have changed internally with melting steel and a list to the right side now present for several days.

[markinnaples]

A friend thinks his new 911 Turbo may be on that ship, ugh.

[70 copo]

Multiple stories now contradict the autoweek story which stated that the fire was out.

Here is the latest: (yes it is still on fire)

https://gcaptain.com/felicity-ace-response-stretches-into-second-week-as-fire-continues-to-burn/

[70 copo]

Looks like we are finally down to the nub of it... The MONEY.

Look at the options here: If they are able to save the ship the salvage and clean up operations are expected to cost BIG money if and when she is towed to a port. The ACE is junk at this point and will be scrapped.

The root cause of the fire is suspected but not conclusive. If it is determined to be conclusive then one auto manufacturer may well be set to pay the entire cost of the event, the salvage the investigation and the loss after years of protracted litigation of course. All of this will be well after the general average event clause is applied to all parties and the combined innocent bystander businesses that simply had goods aboard then get to legally go after the offending root cause source of the disaster manufacturer.

Finally this event points out just how dangerous an EV can be when it catches fire and that may explain the restraint on images, and reporting surrounding this event.

Now looking at the components of the battery in an EV... If battery packs are shipped in commerce right now they are considered dangerous goods and are requited to be shipped in a specially regulated and constructed overpack.

So will future shipping of EV's aboard ship require a monitored shipping container for each vehicle rigged to detect heat or fire with a robotic retrieval system able to grab the offending container and immediately eject it overboard? Many questions....

Lawyers are beginning to ask: https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/the-burning-question-the-fire-aboard-3396944/


Frankly, it would not surprise me one bit to see the ACE have an unfortunate "turn for the worst" and sink.

[olredalert]

----The lawyers will rake in a fortune on this!.....Bill S

[70 copo]

Today's update:


Statement 7- 25th February, 2022.
​
MOL Ship Management (Singapore) updates the situation regarding the ‘Felicity Ace’ car carrier.

There is no oil leakage from the vessel, and the stability of the vessel remains stable. The smoke leaving the vessel has currently stopped and is not visible.


The salvage team on site were able to board Felicity Ace by a helicopter and the vessel has started being towed by the large salvage craft ‘Bear’ to a safe area off Azores.

Two tugs, ‘ALP Guard’ and ‘Dian Kingdom’, together with a large salvage craft with additional firefighting capability ‘V.B. Hispanic’ are escorting the vessel.

​MOL, MOL Ship Management (Singapore), and the salvage team are cooperating fully with local authorities and resources from the Azores to find an early solution to this incident.

Video report here: https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/salvage-team-boards-felicity-ace

(the rest of the site is behind a paywall.)

[70 copo]

Lamborghini is reportedly looking at the logistics of restarting Aventador production.

The cars aboard the ACE are reported to be "beyond salvage".

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39188600/lamborghinis-bugattis-felicity-ace-cargo-ship/

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/lamborghini-does-not-rule-out-aventador-production-restart-after-felicity-ace-fire-182610.html

[70 copo]

Update:

"No visible flames or smoke coming from the vessel. However, the team reports that there remain high temperatures, especially in the midships section"

"The Captain of the Port of Horta in the Azores, who has been monitoring the firefight and salvage operation, was quoted as saying that they would not permit the hulk to enter their protected waters due to the environmental danger."

Link:

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/felicity-ace-under-tow-in-first-phase-of-salvage-operation

[Lee Stewart]

Massive cargo ship carrying cars sinks in mid-Atlantic

The Felicity Ace sank about 400 kilometers (250 miles) off Portugal’s Azores Islands as it was being towed, MOL Ship Management in Singapore said in a statement. A salvage team had put out the fire.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/massive-cargo-ship-carrying-cars-sinks-in-mid-atlantic/ar-AAUtkg0?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

[70 copo]

Something-something... post 41 of this thread.
:biggthumpup:

[70 copo]

Our gal just before she had an "unfortunate turn for the worst" and went to Davy Jones locker.

BURNED to a crisp.

"Unfortunately with the ship now at the bottom of the ocean, we may never know what caused the initial fire or contributed to its spread".

Link: https://gcaptain.com/felicity-ace-sinks-in-atlantic-ocean/

[flyingn]

At least its not 4000 muscle cars

Exactly. New cars are expendable

[Jonesy]

I was at least hoping to see a video of the sinking.....:biggthumpup:

[70 copo]

"The Felicity Ace sank 220 nautical miles off the coast of Portugal’s Azores Islands around 9 a.m. local time on Tuesday after being battered by waves and leaning 45 degrees to its starboard side, the ship’s operator said.

Joao Mendes Cabecas, the captain of the nearest port on the island of Faial, told Reuters the Panama-flagged Felicity Ace had sunk as efforts to tow it began due to structural problems caused by the fire"...

"When the towing started... water started to come in," he said. "The ship lost its stability and sank."

"WATER CAME IN when we started to tow it" well you don't SAY? Shazam! Well Gooolllllyyy.. NOBODY could have seen that one coming. Felicity had ZERO chance of coming back and literally everyone knew what would happen and better yet what would be caused to happen.

I have a feeling that the salvage team will not be held responsible. Not responsible for mitigating the list prior to towing and doing the due diligence on the hull breach inspection.

SO I am dedicating this song to our ship and if you follow the lyrics it is strangely appropriate.

Gxd23UVID7k

[Tommy]

I was at least hoping to see a video of the sinking.....:biggthumpup:


Sinking or being sunk.


Tommy

[70 copo]

"Millions of dollars of toxic cars are lying at the bottom of the ocean after a massive cargo ship fire. Now, authorities are looking for someone to blame."

Well here we go...entertaining like a watching a dog chase its tail. Tough questions for the salvage team perhaps as the insurance companies get ready to pay an enormous amount of money in losses.

Link: https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/how-massive-cargo-ship-felicity-ace-sunk-midatlantic-with-luxury-cars/news-story/723f73071aef8fef815a65f102910e08

[BCreekDave]

I wonder how many of the customers of these cars are now cancelling orders based on the current world events? I'll never be of the means to place an order for such a vehicle, but if you have are there methods to cancel the order now that your car is at the bottom of the ocean? Sounds like at least you may be on the hook for a deposit?

[70 copo]

Companies are lining up to replace customer's cars:

VW

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/cars-lost-in-felicity-ace-fire-will-be-replaced-volkswagen-group-brands-ceos-confirm-184199.html

Lamborghini Aventador Ultimae Going Back Into Production To Replace The 15 Lost During Sinking Of Felicity Ace

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/03/lamborghini-aventador-ultimae-going-back-into-production-to-replace-the-15-lost-during-sinking-of-felicity-ace/


The lingering questions about pollution from the wreck remain in the news:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a39428930/felicity-ace-wreck-underwater-pollution-hazard/

[70 copo]

The analysis of what is known is in and business determinations are being made.

https://freewestmedia.com/2023/01/20/fire-hazard-ferry-company-bans-electric-cars/