VIN check vendor

[Too Many Projects]

The title to my '70SS Chevelle has all the option codes from the trim tag as the registered VIN number. It came this way to me and transferred into my name with no issues. I would like to have the real vin run to be certain there are no skeletons in the closet before I take it to my DMV/State Police/Inspections to get this changed to reflect the actual vin on the dash.
I did run both the trim tag "vin" and the actual vin thru the free, online NICB checker and they both came back clean, but I assume there is a more thorough check that can be made.
Does anyone have a good source to have a verifiable check done on the actual vin ?

Thanks
Mitch

[Too Many Projects]

This car was delivered new to Jim Fuller Chevrolet of Corning NY. It was White with Black vinyl top and Black bucket, non-console interior. Anyone remembering a similar 1970 SS 396/350, 4 speed Chevelle with info would be helpful too.

[useless tony]

It sounds like you are saying you registered your '70 Chevelle using the paperwork (title) from a different '70 Chevelle.

This could get messy ...

I wish you the best of luck.

[Too Many Projects]

No, that's not what I said at all. Someone in the past applied for the title using the rpo codes on the trim/cowl tag, instead of the digits on the vin tag.
The title matches the rpo codes on the cowl tag. Unfortunately, that isn't the vin number, which is on the vin tag at the base of the windshield.

[dustinm]

Well Mitch, in my state that would prove to be very difficult as the people we have to deal with on these types of issues have no common sense. I hope it goes smoothly for you, more than it did when I bought a trailer missing 1 number - MI left off the very first 0 of the VIN which didnt even matter with the actual number sequence. 5 appointments later I had a usable title

[useless tony]

Wow, that is odd ... I was close though. You have a car and you have an ownership that does not match the vin on your car.

I'll stand by my "this could get messy" comment though ...

[Too Many Projects]

I know, since the real vin comes back as clean, I'm tempted to just leave it alone, but it needs a complete restoration and I'm very hesitant to sink 10's of thousands of dollars in it with a messed up title.

My local DMV said to take pics of the 2 tags on the car and a pencil highlight of the actual vin sequence. I tried to do that yesterday, but I can't really get a good position to get at it with the windshield in the car. I was, also, standing on the balls of my feet on the edge of the 4 post lift ramp, 7 feet off the concrete floor, which doesn't encourage a lot of confidence for reaching inside much...:tongue:
I'll try again this weekend by opening the door and sneaking inside so I can at least not feel like I'm going to fall.

[John Brown]

Carbon paper?

[Too Many Projects]

Carbon paper?
Hmmm....good idea. I'll have to see if I have any. I had some sheets when I was self employed, but that ended 10 yrs ago. If they are still around, they are probably all dried out...:hmmm:

[Lynn]

I am so sorry that you have to deal with such an oddball situation.

My fear for you is that a moron civil servant in the bureaucracy will make some call on this that is just off the wall.

Is it already a Wisconsin title? Did you buy it from in state? If so, you may be able to get some history on it and determine when the car registration got changed from the real vin to a goofy derivative of option codes as the vin.

Have you checked to see that the vin plate matches any hidden partial vin? Leave no stone unturned and dig up all the info you can. The biggest problem is that there aren't likely any current employees old enough to remember vin rules from 50 plus years ago. I had a worker tell me there was something wrong with my title on my 69 Z/28 because it didn't have 17 digits.

I don't blame you for being cautious. I doubt you could be overly cautious in this situation.

[TimG]

Law enforcement may come to inspect the car and run the VIN to be sure it is clean, that's not a bad thing. I've had that done with replica cars. They also look for matching VIN's on the engine, transmission, and chassis. You could request they fill out the appropriate paperwork for DMV to correct the title.

[Too Many Projects]

Law enforcement may come to inspect the car and run the VIN to be sure it is clean, that's not a bad thing. I've had that done with replica cars. They also look for matching VIN's on the engine, transmission, and chassis. You could request they fill out the appropriate paperwork for DMV to correct the title.
Engine and trans are long gone and replacements in their place. I've thought about the State Patrol, or any state inspection, and am considering removing the engine/trans that I installed before any inspection. I bought it as a gutted roller and don't want items I installed causing concern or confusion. I do have a copy of the valid MN title I got with the car, in the previous owners name, as proof it was titled like this by the state before me. I would have thought the state computer would have spit the vin back out as invalid when it was first registered here, but, obviously, that didn't happen.

Going to take some phone pics this weekend and go to the local SP division nearby, with a copy of my title, and see if I can talk with someone there who is familiar with titles and the inspection service about this issue. The DMV wants the same thing, but to surrender the title along with a form to SEE if the state will just issue a corrected title. The title is NOT leaving my possession until I feel reasonably confidant that I will get one back with the vin corrected.
Thanks for the replies, guys...

[L_e_e]

This may be an easier way…
https://wisconsindot.gov/pages/dmv/vehicles/title-plates/surety-bond.aspx

[Too Many Projects]

This may be an easier way…
https://wisconsindot.gov/pages/dmv/vehicles/title-plates/surety-bond.aspx
Thanks, I lived in MN when I bought this and don't want to get, yet another, state jurisdiction involved.

[L_e_e]

https://suretysolutions.com/suretynews/how-to-get-a-minnesota-bonded-title/

[67since67]

I was a bystander (fortunately!) in a situation where a guy bought a car in CO, registered it in IA, and 35 years later, after he sold it out of state, the new owner in WA discovered the VIN on the title was for a different car.

Cool heads prevailed, the buyer's State Trooper friend walked him through a search and inspection which lead to a clean title issued using the cars original VIN. All Good, it can be done!

This was a NOM running driving car with original tags intact. - Bill W

[Too Many Projects]

https://suretysolutions.com/suretynews/how-to-get-a-minnesota-bonded-title/
Bonding creates more financial costs and a bonded title that may never go away. Not much better than a revin.

The state may want this with a corrected title anyway, to protect itself from lawsuits.

[Too Many Projects]

I never did anything further with this last year, as I didn't want to have to get it off the lift, loaded and trailered to an inspection site in the winter.
I went to the main DMV for the state in St. Paul today with the pics of the TT, vin tag, all the previous paperwork with the rpo codes as the vin and a title correction form. The girl scanned the pics into the computer along with the correction form and 7 minutes later the vin came back as clean and it was changed in the state registration immediately. All I have to do now, is wait for the new title to arrive !!!!!!!
What a HUGE relief, it didn't get all convoluted and complicated...:cool2:

[Lynn]

You need to send her flowers. Kind of a unicorn these days: a level headed, logical civil servant.

[Big Block Bill]

She is one in a Million at a DMV office for sure. Bill

[Too Many Projects]

She was very knowledgeable and experienced with the system and how to navigate thru this.

Funny thing is, I was in line at the title and tabs counter and she was talking with one of the other people and when she left, she pointed at me and said to come over to her area on the other side of the office, and she would help me. Shortly after she realized this was not a simple title exchange, I said, "bet you had no clue what you were getting into having me come over here." She laughed and replied "no I didn't, but we'll get thru this." After the title work was done, she said I should stay and she would take care of the tabs too and then asked for the insurance info on the 2 motorcycles. OOPPS, I forgot to write that down on the renewal. She said she could look it up on the computer from last year and I mentioned that the carrier is Progressive. She looked at me and asked "are you sure ?" "Yes, why ?" she said "because it's in here as travelers." I've never had that carrier in my life, so the person last year entered it wrong. She waited while I called home and got the policy number from my wife. In the end, I thanked her for sticking with this and seeing it thru. And then I said " bet you won't be inviting anyone else over here from the title line". She got a good laugh out of that and said she was not...:cool2:

[Mr70]

Buy Her Dinner..

[Too Many Projects]

Buy Her Dinner..
I could take her a gift card sometime, but I doubt a twenty something would be interested in having dinner with a fossil...:grin:

[Keith Seymore]

I could take her a gift card sometime, but I doubt a twenty something would be interested in having dinner with a fossil...:grin:

I was going to ask if she was married, but you are probably right.

K

[Too Many Projects]

I was going to ask if she was married, but you are probably right.

K
I didn't notice any rings, or indication of that, but I am...:wink:

[Too Many Projects]

Well, it turns out I was too optimistic to believe this was really going to be "this easy". Got a letter back from the state that they won't transfer the vins. Called today and they claim I don't have any proof of ownership of the car with the real vin and state law won't allow them to correct this. I argued for 30 minutes that the "vin" on the title now isn't even a federally recognized vin at all and I'm not asking them to swap vin's, just remove the incorrect number sequence with the correct and real vin for the car. NOPE, the state recognizes the one on the title as the valid vin and won't swap. How friggen stupid is this ???? The state recognizes a bunch of letters and numbers that have NONE of the federally required information for a valid vin ??????? I'm so fricken PO'D right now, I could scream. The only way they will change the vin is by me applying for a new title, getting a bond and, get this, paying the sales tax and fees to "buy" the car !!!!!! I have a copy of the original transfer to me with ALL those costs already paid.

Anyone know where I can find the federal requirements for a valid motor vehicle vin ? I need to print that out and take it back to the dmv and prove they are wrong and may actually be violating federal law themselves by allowing the rpo codes to be used as a vin.

[67since67]

One of my buddies recently bought a 40's vintage Harley from another buddy, who had owned it 40 plus years. Clean IA title with good numbers on bike and title. Now told he can't transfer it because there's a Harley in MN titled with the same VIN.

Also, while there, wanted registration on a '33 Ford he's had a bonded title on for 25 years. Can't do that, it's titled in CA. Same deal, IA car all it's life, good original numbers.

He's jumping the hoops on both. Makes one apprehensive about buying anything these days. Good luck Mitch!! - Bill W

[dustinm]

Sorry to hear about this Mitch

[Keith Seymore]

Well, it turns out I was too optimistic to believe this was really going to be "this easy". Got a letter back from the state that they won't transfer the vins. Called today and they claim I don't have any proof of ownership of the car with the real vin and state law won't allow them to correct this. I argued for 30 minutes that the "vin" on the title now isn't even a federally recognized vin at all and I'm not asking them to swap vin's, just remove the incorrect number sequence with the correct and real vin for the car. NOPE, the state recognizes the one on the title as the valid vin and won't swap. How friggen stupid is this ???? The state recognizes a bunch of letters and numbers that have NONE of the federally required information for a valid vin ??????? I'm so fricken PO'D right now, I could scream. The only way they will change the vin is by me applying for a new title, getting a bond and, get this, paying the sales tax and fees to "buy" the car !!!!!! I have a copy of the original transfer to me with ALL those costs already paid.

Anyone know where I can find the federal requirements for a valid motor vehicle vin ? I need to print that out and take it back to the dmv and prove they are wrong and may actually be violating federal law themselves by allowing the rpo codes to be used as a vin.

Ha! I knew I had a hard time being as optimistic as you were...

I don't recall what year or type vehicle we were talking about but here is a link to VIN cards for various GM products and model years. It will show the appropriate format for each.

We used to carry these around in our pockets (appropriately protected, of course.)

K


https://gsitlc.ext.gm.com/dealerworld/vincards/

[Keith Seymore]

I guess that was not quite as explicit as I had hoped, for 70 passenger car VIN:

It would be "model" type for a Chevelle 2 door hardtop, a "zero" for 1970 model year, the assembly plant code, and then the sequential portion of the VIN.

Thirteen characters total.

[Keith Seymore]

This is more what I am used to seeing:

(70 Truck, 87 passenger car and 87 truck, respectively)

[Rsconv68]

Glad it’s going to work out, Now I’m not a very smart man, but how do you not look at the VIN on the title and hit the “stop, collaborate and listen” button. You own a few cars so naturally you know what it’s supposed to be.

[Too Many Projects]

I knew about it when I bought it and had intended to do something right away. Then it went into storage and I forgot about this issue. I don't know that the story would have been any different 7 years ago, but I "thought" it was a done deal after the last visit to the DMV.

Keith, I've already printed out a bunch of info like that and am going back in person. I would hope proving the number on the title in person is NOT an actual vin would help someone use common sense and see that I'm not trying to swap vins, when the rpo codes don't follow the vin sequence used at all. I tried to find a phone number for the person the title was last issued too, but came up with nothing. From a web search of his name, he seems a little shady. The car had no clip and I think he acquired it without a title and just walked up to the cowl and wrote down the codes as the vin, but it's not a bonded title either and should have been when applying for a new title. The tag that they came from is not in the federally mandated location either, which should be a plus on my side. We'll see. I'm going to call and see if I can get an appointment with a higher level director to discuss this with, who can over ride the desk clerks decision.

[1967Z28]

Why not sell it and get yourself a Chevelle that doesn't have this problem? You're fighting a huge uphill battle and this is not a 1 of 1 Chevelle. Just a thought.

[Too Many Projects]

Why not sell it and get yourself a Chevelle that doesn't have this problem? You're fighting a huge uphill battle and this is not a 1 of 1 Chevelle. Just a thought.
Well, see I'm a Taurus and Norwegian and their insistence on not having any common sense has me PO'd enough that I am now in fight mode. No, the car certainly isn't 1 of 1, but it is an Oshawa built car with documentation as a real SS, so it is worth fighting for, to me.

I sent an email on Monday, after being on hold for 20 minutes. I was able to get to someone via phone yesterday who had no ability, or desire, to understand this isn't covered under their law of switching vins.

I got a nice reply to my email today from a different person, who is willing to work with me, but they didn't seem to have looked at the file, as she wanted me to fill out the correction form that I already did. I explained everything I've already done in a polite reply and offered to forward any documentation she needed to get this done. Again, we'll see where this goes over the next few days.

[Bill Pritchard]

Wish I could remember for sure how I ended up handling a similar situation with my wife's old 69 Impala convertible. Somehow the State of Illinois (where I lived at the time) changed the capital letter 'S' in the middle of the VIN on the title to the numbers '75'. Nowhere near as goofy as your situation, Mitch, but still not the proper format for a Chevrolet VIN of that era. I know I considered taking the car to my local Police Department and having them verify the correct VIN and submit their statement to the State of Illinois, but if I ever did that, I certainly don't remember it. Probably more likely that I just sold the car with the incorrect VIN on the title.

Hope you are stocked up on liquor and/or antacids.

[Big Block Bill]

I had the same experience with a Jaguar I sold to a Guy on ebay that lived in Israel. Illinois SOS gave me a title with an "S" instead of a "5" or vice versa, I don't remember. When it arrived on the dock in Israel, the customs guys would not let it in the country until the title read correctly. So (3) weeks later and $400.00 to cover DHL / Fed Ex and fees from Illinois SOS for a corrected Title (and it was THEIR Mistake) I finally got it resolved. All the time waiting on the dock, unprotected or covered, this original 40,000 miles V-12 XJS sat.

They also gave me a title with 18 digits instead of the 17 it should have for a Tow Truck I bought brand new off of an MSO. Their computer should not even have had the ability to accept an 18 digit VIN at the time. go figure. I had to take the truck to the SOS Police office in Villa Park Illinois for them to inspect it and then took the paperwork to the Lombard Illinois SOS location for correction and once again they tried charging me for a corrected Title when it was their fault. The sad part is, I towed for the Illinois Secretary of State AND the Illinois State police at the time! NO Respect what so ever.

Being a Licensed Rebuilder and Parts recycler with the Secretary of State in Illinois, they have never been the smartest, or used common sense in my past dealings with good old Jesse White's staff. Hopefully the New Guy, Alexi Giannoulias does a better job.

Bill

[Bill Pritchard]

Bill, did Jesse White retire or die or something? He's been the SOS since Pluto was a pup.

[Mr70]

Bill, did Jesse White retire or die or something? He's been the SOS since Pluto was a pup.

Bill P., the Illinois Secretary of State election was held on November 8,2022.Incumbent Democrat Jesse White did not wish to seek re-election to a seventh term,so Alexi Giannoulias,a former state treasurer,won the open seat.

[Bill Pritchard]

Wish I could remember for sure how I ended up handling a similar situation with my wife's old 69 Impala convertible. Somehow the State of Illinois (where I lived at the time) changed the capital letter 'S' in the middle of the VIN on the title to the numbers '75'. Nowhere near as goofy as your situation, Mitch, but still not the proper format for a Chevrolet VIN of that era. I know I considered taking the car to my local Police Department and having them verify the correct VIN and submit their statement to the State of Illinois, but if I ever did that, I certainly don't remember it. Probably more likely that I just sold the car with the incorrect VIN on the title.


I went on the IL SOS website and searched both the incorrect VIN for our old Impala (nothing listed) and the correct one, which did show up. Last title activity shown was in 2005 (4 years after I sold it) and it is now listed as "Rebuilt". Not sure what that means, but it's probably not a good thing :dunno: