69 Pontiac Firebird and GTO- Hot, Hotter ,Hottest

[Steve Shauger]

Which variant would you choose in 1969....Perhaps something with Ram Air???

[auwrestling]

It’s in my garage - 1969 RAIV FIREBIRD matador red 4spd m-21 , 3:90s w/ black interior

[Steve Shauger]

Great choice Matt!:beers:

[bergy]

I love that car Matt!!!! I've had RAIII 69 GTOs and T/As. I like the T/As better. I had this original drivetrain T/A at MCACN.

[Big Block Bill]

It’s in my garage - 1969 RAIV FIREBIRD matador red 4spd m-21 , 3:90s w/ black interior

Now THAT is Cool, and I'm not even a Pontiac guy. There can't have been too many of that configuration made in a Firebird. Thanks for sharing.

Bill

[turbo69bird]

Matt’s car is sweet , as is muscle collectors
Two of the best there are .

I’d choose this one.

[turbo69bird]

I have the correct radiator and alt etc for it just didn’t want to install it all w the pro stock engine . My daughter wanted to put it together and take it to a local show so that’s why it was kind of assembled quick in the pics .

[69M22Z]

It’s in my garage - 1969 RAIV FIREBIRD matador red 4spd m-21 , 3:90s w/ black interior

Awesome.

[69M22Z]

I have the correct radiator and alt etc for it just didn’t want to install it all w the pro stock engine . My daughter wanted to put it together and take it to a local show so that’s why it was kind of assembled quick in the pics .

Wow.

[turbo69bird]

The car is an original RAIV ,m21, 3.90 raced by Stephen Pontiac
Current Engine is a RAV pro stock as raced by Stephen Pontiac
W factory dual quad RAV intake and carbs.
Bill Eckstrom and Tom Mc innis were the drivers
I raced it myself for 15 years w RAIV power 15k on the clock
Ran 11.93 in 69 w RAIV power. Approx at 430 Hp, RAV made 640 Hp on the dyno
RAV ran 10.34 in 1970

Picture of heads is standard D port RAIII
Middle is RAIV
Top is RAV head.

[auwrestling]

Now THAT is Cool, and I'm not even a Pontiac guy. There can't have been too many of that configuration made in a Firebird. Thanks for sharing.

Bill

Thanks guys I’ve had it since the early 80s, it’s original paint ,original drivetrain car with 20,000 miles. A lot of great options and the interior is like brand new and yes it screams.

[wheelhop]

Here's a few of my buddy Dave Armstrong's 1969 RAIII Red Firebird Convertible.

[flyingn]

Any would be fine 👍🏻 but i prefer the full frame ride of the GTO

[muscle_collector]

Thanks guys I’ve had it since the early 80s, it’s original paint ,original drivetrain car with 20,000 miles. A lot of great options and the interior is like brand new and yes it screams.

thats a lot of money for a 69 firebird on that msrp

[bergy]

Just trying to learn here - why does the 69 RAIV car have the "Ram Air" cable pull?

[Crush]

Love the Firebirds!!!

[Crush]

It’s in my garage - 1969 RAIV FIREBIRD matador red 4spd m-21 , 3:90s w/ black interior

What’s the ownership history on this one? Great car!!!!

[auwrestling]

Just trying to learn here - why does the 69 RAIV car have the "Ram Air" cable pull?

69 Firebird with ram air code 611 option had driver control flaps at the scoop openings in upper pan , very similar to GTO

[auwrestling]

Just trying to learn here - why does the 69 RAIV car have the "Ram Air" cable pull?
A few more pics . On a RAIV optioned Fb code 611 is included in RAIV package

[turbo69bird]

Thanks guys I’ve had it since the early 80s, it’s original paint ,original drivetrain car with 20,000 miles. A lot of great options and the interior is like brand new and yes it screams.

That car is spectacular wish there was more detail pics of it.
Such an amazing time capsule of a RAIV car.
I had always thought it was radio delete like mine. Maybe that’s muscle collectors car?
I thought the special order axle on top of the safe T track HD, meant 4.33 gears Vs 3.90? Is that just if there’s another line on the PHS ?

Really impressive car 👍

[turbo69bird]

69 Firebird with ram air code 611 option had driver control flaps at the scoop openings in upper pan , very similar to GTO

A trans am RAIV wouldn’t have the cable but a bird RAIV does .

Just didn’t want people to see Trans ams for sale and think it’s incorrect to not have the cable .

[bergy]

�� thanks - didn’t know that :-)

[auwrestling]

That car is spectacular wish there was more detail pics of it.
Such an amazing time capsule of a RAIV car.
I had always thought it was radio delete like mine. Maybe that’s muscle collectors car?
I thought the special order axle on top of the safe T track HD, meant 4.33 gears Vs 3.90? Is that just if there’s another line on the PHS ?

Really impressive car 👍

My car does not have special order axle thus 3:90s . 4:33 gears with raiv internals caused many engine failures

[turbo69bird]

My car does not have special order axle thus 3:90s . 4:33 gears with raiv internals caused many engine failures

It’s was the words (& special order axle) on the window sticker that made me ask that . I’d have to dig out my window, sticker but didn’t think mine was worded that way. (from
Memory)
In pretty sure my PHS just says safety- track -HD

I thought there was a Special line on PHS similar to that for 4.33 compared to 3.90
Maybe mine reads the same way on the window sticker . That line was curious to me though.
Good to know that’s what a 3.90 would read.
I wonder if a 4.33 would be worded differently on a window sticker there’s been some questions as to if any 68 69 birds came w the 4.33 but there definitely some axles w the correct code out there. And I’ve seen listings for cars used from the early 70s w that axle but could have been installed .
I find the 4.33 bird thing interesting .

Seems the a PHS reads different for different parts of the year as well . As w the case for the decor group after March 17th .

[turbo69bird]

Here’s my window sticker
Just done a little different on the paperwork

[auwrestling]

It’s was the words (& special order axle) on the window sticker that made me ask that . I’d have to dig out my window, sticker but didn’t think mine was worded that way. (from
Memory)
In pretty sure my PHS just says safety- track -HD

I thought there was a Special line on PHS similar to that for 4.33 compared to 3.90
Maybe mine reads the same way on the window sticker . That line was curious to me though.
Good to know that’s what a 3.90 would read.
I wonder if a 4.33 would be worded differently on a window sticker there’s been some questions as to if any 68 69 birds came w the 4.33 but there definitely some axles w the correct code out there. And I’ve seen listings for cars used from the early 70s w that axle but could have been installed .
I find the 4.33 bird thing interesting .

Seems the a PHS reads different for different parts of the year as well . As w the case for the decor group after March 17th .

It would be very rare and interesting to find a 69 Firebird with a 433 rear from the factory and probably never happened. I would also say that it’s definitely a lot more reliable to go with the Phs vs window sticker when it comes to the wording on some of these items

[RamAirBirds]

Silver/Black Interior Ram Air IV 4 spd.
Hub Cap Car / Radio Delete Car.

[Steve Shauger]

It would be very rare and interesting to find a 69 Firebird with a 433 rear from the factory and probably never happened. I would also say that it’s definitely a lot more reliable to go with the Phs vs window sticker when it comes to the wording on some of these items

Matt, what I've been told was RAIII could be ordered with 433, but RAIV only came with 390. Is that correct?

[RamAirBirds]

My understanding is that there were NO Firebirds ever produced with 4:33 axles. There has been much discussion on this on the forums in the past. I am certain Matt will confirm this as well.....Matt?

[Steve Shauger]

This is a window sticker of a car I used to own. Another expensive RAIV that was optioned very well.

[muscle_collector]

these are obviously reproduction window stickers. what about yours matt, is it the original one or a reproduction one also?

steve, that is the carousel red one you sold to phil right?

[Steve Shauger]

these are obviously reproduction window stickers. what about yours matt, is it the original one or a reproduction one also?

steve, that is the carousel red one you sold to phil right?

Yes, I believe Rick owns the car now.

[turbo69bird]

Well I’d assume they had to come In a bird because I’ve seen pictures of them w the correct axle code stamped into it. I also have ads from early 70s of these cars w 4.33 which could have been swapped in but pretty early on. Idk if they’d have sold an over the counter axle assembly w the 4.33 axle code for 68 bird stamped but maybe. It certainly is listed for 68.

Not a big deal but I thought it was certainly interesting the way it was worded on Matt’s car. Sure would make it one really rare bird if it was a 4.33

[auwrestling]

Matt, what I've been told was RAIII could be ordered with 433, but RAIV only came with 390. Is that correct?

Never heard that Steve.

[auwrestling]

these are obviously reproduction window stickers. what about yours matt, is it the original one or a reproduction one also?

steve, that is the carousel red one you sold to phil right?

Hi Gary, mine is the original window sticker!

[turbo69bird]

So i checked on the ZM that I had seen that was from a 69 in the 80s and the owner confirmed it ended up being a 68 housing. So it in fact was NOT a 4.33 69 rear so we can take that out of the mix. It would have been a ZR stamping for 68
So all that leaves is some cars listed in early 70s for sale w 4.33 which could have easily been swapped in so. I’ll concede that there hasn’t been one known to exists yet .

But I still was pretty sure that that language ( & special order axle ) meant a 4.33 axle at least if it was on the PHS .
Which I’d agree is better to go with than the window sticker.. plus different things were done at different times of year . No idea what build date your car is.

I just thought we may be looking at a really super rare example in Matt’s car which would have been even more amazing.

[auwrestling]

Well I’d assume they had to come In a bird because I’ve seen pictures of them w the correct axle code stamped into it. I also have ads from early 70s of these cars w 4.33 which could have been swapped in but pretty early on. Idk if they’d have sold an over the counter axle assembly w the 4.33 axle code for 68 bird stamped but maybe. It certainly is listed for 68.

Not a big deal but I thought it was certainly interesting the way it was worded on Matt’s car. Sure would make it one really rare bird if it was a 4.33

Definitely 390s and I’m glad it wasn’t 433 , less chance the motor would have survived!

[turbo69bird]

Yes, I believe Rick owns the car now.

Is that Jack Romanos old car?

[auwrestling]

My understanding is that there were NO Firebirds ever produced with 4:33 axles. There has been much discussion on this on the forums in the past. I am certain Matt will confirm this as well.....Matt?

I actually heard there was 1 68 Firebird non ram air car that was delivered with a 433 axle and that’s the only one.

[auwrestling]

Is that Jack Romanos old car?

Where’s jack from ?

[auwrestling]

So i checked on the ZM that I had seen that was from a 69 in the 80s and the owner confirmed it ended up being a 68 housing. So it in fact was NOT a 4.33 69 rear so we can take that out of the mix. It would have been a ZR stamping for 68
So all that leaves is some cars listed in early 70s for sale w 4.33 which could have easily been swapped in so. I’ll concede that there hasn’t been one known to exists yet .

But I still was pretty sure that that language ( & special order axle ) meant a 4.33 axle at least if it was on the PHS .
Which I’d agree is better to go with than the window sticker.. plus different things were done at different times of year . No idea what build date your car is.

I just thought we may be looking at a really super rare example in Matt’s car which would have been even more amazing.
My car is first week of March

[turbo69bird]

Jack was from Brooklyn used to hang out w him at e town a lot . Nunzis cousin car was corvette summer fantastic!

I’d have left that car just the way it was there’s so few examples of what was done during that time period. Could always have restored it later . There’s so many restored cars. Would have been something really different.

[turbo69bird]

My car is first week of March

Same as mine 03a

[turbo69bird]

Hi Gary, mine is the original window sticker!

Which means our repros are likely worded incorrectly

So the next interesting thing is that my RAIV car doesn’t list the decor group but had everything on the decor group. Wheel molding, drip edge bright work, pedal trim, rocker moldings wheel opening chrome,” north” had said something. About it being changed on March 17th and that many cars had all of it even though only part part was listed on the PHS . Seemed like maybe those pieces were added automatically w the ram air IV option as I can’t think of one I’ve seen without it.

[MarcDant]

Wow talk about endangered species those are some rare birds good thread. thanks for the all the pics.

[Steve Shauger]

Is that Jack Romanos old car?


Yes

[auwrestling]

Which means our repros are likely worded incorrectly

So the next interesting thing is that my RAIV car doesn’t list the decor group but had everything on the decor group. Wheel molding, drip edge bright work, pedal trim, rocker moldings wheel opening chrome,” north” had said something. About it being changed on March 17th and that many cars had all of it even though only part part was listed on the PHS . Seemed like maybe those pieces were added automatically w the ram air IV option as I can’t think of one I’ve seen without it.

Those trim packages are definitely not part of the raiv option. As far as I know wheel opening molding and rocker panel molding were standard issue on 69 Firebird, except for Trans Am.

[muscle_collector]

Never heard that Steve.

i have heard this but never seen any proof of it. actually i have never seen any hard evidence that any firebird actually came with a 4:33 rear

[turbo69bird]

Those trim packages are definitely not part of the raiv option. As far as I know wheel opening molding and rocker panel molding were standard issue on 69 Firebird, except for Trans Am.

Good info check a thread on it on PY though cause north said something changed on March 17th don’t remember if it had to do w the stainless on the drip rails or what. It’s a recent thread though.

[RamAirBirds]

Funny, My Silver RAIV Car posted Earlier is also an 03A. March first week.

[Steve Shauger]

This is a fantastic thread. Love the knowledge you are sharing... thanks!

[auwrestling]

1969 TRANS AM RAIV 4 Spd , tach/ gauges & deluxe parchment interior 3:90 gears , rally 2s.

[Xplantdad]

Beautiful!!:headbang::headbang::worship:

[auwrestling]

69 TA RAIV Total production 55
4-Spds 46
Automatics 9
TEAM RAIV FIREBIRD

[muscle_collector]

you still got the T/A

[Crush]

Wow!!!going to need a napkin to clean up the drool!!

[Steve Shauger]

👍

[auwrestling]

you still got the T/A

Yes, this is the parchment deluxe interior car only RAIV TA built with this interior

[Rfish]

1969 TRANS AM RAIV 4 Spd , tach/ gauges & deluxe parchment interior 3:90 gears , rally 2s.

First pics I’ve seen of the Polyglas WL radials. I didn’t care much for the tread design but they look great on the car!!

[Miagiman]

Had this at the 2008 GTO Nationals and recently at the 2022 GTO Nationals
" Unrestored" Judged class, Ram Air IV , M 21, 4:33
Said to be the one of the last Ram IV's manufactured and per the late John Sawurk and the only White Vinyl roof one produced. Documented car with the 69 Judge stripe

[68hotbird]

Here is my 69 Ra IV one repaint in the 80's one owner till last year. 02D build date have all paperwork including the original hand written order form, build sheet, window sticker, original invoice and original title.

[68hotbird]

The car traded in on my 69 RA iv was a 65 chevelle 327/350 4 speed blue on blue. I have the window sticker for it as well. It was a cool car too. Bought local as well. The only parts know to survive off of it are the heads intake and carb.

[Keith Seymore]

That's awesome. Love the handwritten notes.

K

[RamAirBirds]

That Green RAIV is a great car. Looked closely at it at Norwalk. I own 2 RAIV Birds plus the TA and you just don't see them together with older restorations like this anymore. Great survivor restoration and Great Story.
Thats a Keeper.
Ross

[Crush]

What was the est. HP on the RAIV?

[turbo69bird]

Funny, My Silver RAIV Car posted Earlier is also an 03A. March first week.

That’s really awesome do you have the radio delete plate?
People used to tell me they didn’t exist. I had one on my sprint 6 popper years ago and I sold that car took me 25 years to find another.

[RamAirBirds]

Yes, It is there. It has the correct matching pebble grain. I will try and get a photo of it soon and post it.

[turbo69bird]

Silver/Black Interior Ram Air IV 4 spd.
Hub Cap Car / Radio Delete Car.

Where was this car originally sold? Like the yellow Porsche I had a red 911s wish I’d kept that too. Mine was a 70 .

[auwrestling]

Where was this car originally sold? Like the yellow Porsche I had a red 911s wish I’d kept that too. Mine was a 70 .

I think the silver car came out of a dealership in Iowa but maybe Ross will chime in with a PHS I have it somewhere also.

[turbo69bird]

I think the silver car came out of a dealership in Iowa but maybe Ross will chime in with a PHS I have it somewhere also.

Thanks Matt .

[turbo69bird]

There’s someone on FGF with what they say is a FGF 4.33 posi all original right now no idea what the back story is on it.

[turbo69bird]

Thought I’d add this had my car at a show a few weeks ago w the lettering back on it. People really liked it that way, Really sets the car off

[turbo69bird]

Thought I’d add this had my car at a show a few weeks ago w the lettering back on it. People really liked it that way, Really sets the car off

Thought I’d add a little go w the show ! This is the dyno sheet for my stephens bird w the RAV pro stock engine in it .

Sorry for the bottom of that article being cut off, I can’t find a copy that’s not like that. Just thought this might be a fun read. The dyno pull stops at 6500 but as you’ll see this engine keeps making power much higher. Eckstrom had the rev limiter set at 8k.

[noumansaeed]

That's so cool man!

[Miagiman]

That Bird LOOKS Great! I'm a big fan to Lettered Cars with a history!
And the Ram Air V takes the cake, My 64 had a ram air IV (Nunzi built) in it since 1970,(has HO WJ 421 tripower in it for quite Awhile) contemplating putting the RA back in!

[turbo69bird]

That Bird LOOKS Great! I'm a big fan to Lettered Cars with a history!
And the Ram Air V takes the cake, My 64 had a ram air IV (Nunzi built) in it since 1970,(has HO WJ 421 tripower in it for quite Awhile) contemplating putting the RA back in!

Hard to argue w the 421 tri power too. Quite a conundrum.

I’m a similar jam RAIV or RAV? Such problems we have. 😂

[Bill Pritchard]

Read this thread from start to finish earlier today. I have only limited Pontiac knowledge, but this was very interesting and informative. Some awesome vehicles shown here.....congrats and thanks to all who posted!