69 F Body Rear Axle Color *Latest Consensus*

[RamAirBirds]

What i the latest/final consensus on the finish for the rear axle on the Camaro/Firebird.
When I look in the "Legends Judging Manual" it does not really state anything other than Black Backing Plates but the axles they show in the photos appear to be all Black.
To this point I had always painted the axle Tubes Natural Steel and the Center Section in Cast Iron Color. Also i have seen some people spray the back of the assembly with a light coverage of black like it was over sprayed while in the car during bottom finish. What is the latest and greatest method out there.
Can somebody please shed some light on this?
Specifically ready to paint a couple 69 RA Firebird Axles, a 69 Camaro 12 Bolt and a 68 RA GTO Axle.
Any help and thoughts/discussion is appreciated. Need to hear from the experts out there. Thanks in advance. If this has been covered if you could point me to the proper thread would also be helpful.
RA

[X66 714]

My friend's 375hp, 12k 69 Camaro has black paint on the axle & drums. I did mine in all black & rec'd no point deduction at MCACN...Joe

[RamAirBirds]

Interesting. That is a very good example to pull the info from. I can also say that there are many cars that go to MCACN that have the axle painted the way i described and also received no point deduction. The Judging world may not be what we would consider a "Final Consensus". I like your information better.
Any other know original cars out there to back this up?

[William]

Firebird axles were sourced from Pontiac and appear to not have been painted after assembly. During final assembly, I believe the bottom of the axle was coated.

Camaro axles were sourced from Chevrolet and were painted after assembly. The brake drums were also painted; some overspray may be present on the PB cables. The pinion flange was masked and should not have paint. Brake lines were not installed and should not be painted.

ZL-1 #3 road test photo.

[RamAirBirds]

This information Post #4 may go along with my thoughts. I have always painted the Firebird Axles this way and now my painter is doing his 69 Camaro Axle and was thinking what Joe says above...All Black.
William, Do you think it would be safe to say that the GTO vs Chevelle would be that same scenario? I have done my GTO axles also as Natural Steel / Cast Center.

[William]

Probably.

Chevy axles came from the gear and axle plant. Far as I know, all were painted.

[RamAirBirds]

Would assume that since the backing plates come with the axle that the Pontiac Backing plates would also be natural steel. This is how i have always done them and now i wonder about drums.
Also not to get too deep but would the 12-bolt chevy axles installed on 1970 Trans Ams and 1970-1972 GTOs be painted ALL BLACK?

[William]

This is a '69 Firebird at Lordstown. Appears the backing plates are not coated. There must have been a paint process in final assembly to coat the axle and exhaust system.

[RamAirBirds]

Were you intending to post a photo?
Thank you for your input.

[RamAirBirds]

Yes, Good Stuff. Ive seen that before.

[turbo69bird]

A freind and I were just discussing this the other day. Would appear on this car the black was sprayed after , coating the ends of the exhaust when hap hazardous eating from behind? As per the assembly manual the area around the brake drum ti backing plate is not supposed to get any paint in it so they stopped around the bolt in flange . Axles ends should be free of paint. This is my understanding anyway

[turbo69bird]

Top is an unrestored 69 bird
Next two the low low 9k mileage camaro recently on this site,
Last on was an assembly line photo from
CRG.
Don’t necessarily match up w that red bird assembly line photo.

[turbo69bird]

Some other pictures I had in files

This was the blue 69 vert bird much as described which is how I’d have done it at one time myself. It’s a nice clean look but maybe not correct. I also like to see the welds made to look like a welded/ heated color if it’s supposed to look like natural steel, Looks really good but again maybe not correct.

[William]

That's correct for a Firebird, not a Camaro.

Camaro axles, backing plates and drums were painted by the axle plant. There are several other vintage road test pics that show this.

[turbo69bird]

That's correct for a Firebird, not a Camaro.

Camaro axles, backing plates and drums were painted by the axle plant. There are several other vintage road test pics that show this.

Painted separately or as a unit?

Top pic is unrestored bird has black backing plates all the way out where the red one has unpainted but over sprayed backing plates. Assembly manual shows that joint from backing plate to drum should be clear of paint and over spray . But that unrestored bird rear looks an awful lot like how the Camaro diff looks . Differnt plants? Maybe I could look at date and plant of that particular unrestored firebird

Lordstown 11C

[turbo69bird]

And yes this is 69 bird assembly manual .if anyone has camaro please post it.

[SS427]

Probably.

Chevy axles came from the gear and axle plant. Far as I know, all were painted.

I cannot speak for F bodies but some of the A body plants received differentials that were not painted. I commonly see Baltimore, Arlington and Atlanta cars that are all natural and have a fairly large database showing this.

[70 copo]

Painted separately or as a unit?

Top pic is unrestored bird has black backing plates all the way out where the red one has unpainted but over sprayed backing plates. Assembly manual shows that joint from backing plate to drum should be clear of paint and over spray . But that unrestored bird rear looks an awful lot like how the Camaro diff looks . Differnt plants? Maybe I could look at date and plant of that particular unrestored firebird

Lordstown 11C


Good... You are on the right track.:beers:

[Keith Seymore]

I cannot speak for F bodies but some of the A body plants received differentials that were not painted. I commonly see Baltimore, Arlington and Atlanta cars that are all natural and have a fairly large database showing this.

This is a very important point.

The amount of coverage is going to vary by final assembly location (to a large degree) and by the individual operator (by a lesser degree).

K

[Keith Seymore]

A freind and I were just discussing this the other day. Would appear on this car the black was sprayed after , coating the ends of the exhaust when hap hazardous eating from behind? As per the assembly manual the area around the brake drum ti backing plate is not supposed to get any paint in it so they stopped around the bolt in flange . Axles ends should be free of paint. This is my understanding anyway
There was a small paint booth before body drop where the completed chassis received a spattering of "chassis black".

The chassis black was a really thin, watery "paint" that was drizzled in the general direction of the chassis as it went by. The operator shot from above, so the top outboard surfaces received the most paint, with the bottom surfaces and inboard surfaces generally missing out because that would take too much effort to bend over or reach around 500 times per day.

(Oldsmobile in Lansing plant, shown as an example)

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=590305&stc=1&d=1651845544

[Keith Seymore]

This is the best write up I've ever seen:

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

The author, John Hinkley, is standing in the background of the full photo referenced in post #8 (white shirt, back to camera).

While it is written from a Camaro perspective it is relevant for Firebird as well since they were built in the same plant(s).

This is also very good, specific to the home plant in Pontiac Michigan (relative to A bodies):

"Made in Pontiac" series
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990401225894&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=6&totaldisplayed=50
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990404596316&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=7&totaldisplayed=50
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990404601846&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=8&totaldisplayed=50
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990408228079&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=9&totaldisplayed=50
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990408229209&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=10&totaldisplayed=50

These were compiled by author/historian Eric White after interviewing a worker at the Pontiac facility.


K

[70 copo]

This is the best write up I've ever seen:

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

The author, John Hinkley, is standing in the background of the full photo referenced in post #8.

While it is written from a Camaro perspective it is relevant for Firebird as well since they were built in the same plant(s).

This is also very good, specific to the Pontiac Michigan assembly location (relative to A bodies):

"Made in Pontiac" series
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990401225894&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=6&totaldisplayed=50
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990404596316&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=7&totaldisplayed=50
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990404601846&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=8&totaldisplayed=50
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990408228079&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=9&totaldisplayed=50
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-bin/pub9990262549620.cgi?itemid=9990408229209&action=viewad&categoryid=9990286562979&page=1&placeonpage=10&totaldisplayed=50

These were compiled by author/historian Eric White after interviewing a worker at the Pontiac facility.


K


Keith,

To be 100% accurate it was written by the author from a Lordstown operational experience standpoint.

[RamAirBirds]

Yes, The "Welded" Look. Couldn't quickly locate any photos of the axles ive done but this is a Driveshaft f01 a 71 Judge that we Airbrushed the Welds. Impossible to tell that its not real

[Keith Seymore]

Keith,

To be 100% accurate it was written by the author from a Lordstown operational experience standpoint.

Oh! Can't forget "Echos of Norwood".

I meant "best online reference".

;)

K

[Kurt S]

Keith,

To be 100% accurate it was written by the author from a Lordstown operational experience standpoint.
John also had worked in the pilot plant and launched several models in multiple Chevrolet plants.

[JRSully]

Amazing how shiny that Lacquer paint was back then

[jeffschevelle]

I cannot speak for F bodies but some of the A body plants received differentials that were not painted. I commonly see Baltimore, Arlington and Atlanta cars that are all natural and have a fairly large database showing this.

Below pertains to Chevelles only - not Firebirds. I know nada about Pontiacs!

As to A-body Chevrolet axles, I have owned and/or studied and photographed very, very many 65, 66 and 67 survivors from every assembly plant except 67 Framingham (not many survivors left around from up there!). Both 10-bolts and 12-bolts. There is no question that ALL 65-67 Chevelle axles were painted black at the axle plant, end to end, including the drums (but with a mask over the pinion yoke). The wheel studs also had some sort of sleeve (I assume cardboard or tubing) slid over them before the paint was applied, so the threads did not get painted. You can see a donut of bare metal on the drum face around each stud, that shows where the outer diameter of the sleeve was.

(On I side note, I also have one survivor 67 Camaro LOS car, and its axle is black, and was very clearly black before it was installed.)

As to 68-72 axles, I can't claim to have first hand knowledge, other than from looking at all the low-mileage survivors I have seen while on the lift in Vintage judging at MCACN, which have all been black.

But I do have a Sept. 1, 1972 "Chevrolet Dealer Service Information Bulletin" (previously called "Technical Service Bulletins) which says (quoting):

"the chassis black paint as previously applied to axle housing assemblies has been deleted on 1973 Monte Carlo, Chevelle and Vega models effective with the start of 1973 production."

That is pretty strong evidence that Chevelle and Monte axles WERE painted black BEFORE the 1973 model year. If they hadn't been, then a Service Bulletin like that would have been issued earlier, whenever the black painting was stopped. I have every single TSB/DSIB issued from the beginning of the 1963 model year through the end of the 1973 model year, and there is no mention anywhere of deleting the black axle paint until the Sept. 1, 1972 Bulletin noted above. And again, I know for sure they were black in 67; so if they stopped in 68, 69, 70, 71 or 72, logic says there would have been a Bulletin issued. (Or at least there would have been no reason to issue a Bulletin in September of 1972 that says "effective with the start of 1973 production".)

Also, note that whenever an axle assembly was blacked at the axle plant (whatever years that applied to), there would be no variation in that paint based on which VEHICLE final assembly plant the car was built at. Variation could exist from one AXLE plant to another (and from one day or worker in the axle plant to another), but not between two final vehicle assembly plants that were getting their axles from the same axle plant. (Just like orange on an engine - variation may exist from Tonawanda to Flint, but not based on where the car was built.)

The original axle black on 65-67s appears to be pretty cheap oil based paint, and quite thin. A rag with WD-40 on it will just about wipe it all off. So unless a car has low mileage, it is easy to see how a lot of that paint (or even all if it) would "wash" off over time with engine and trans leaks and road grease washing back onto the axle for several decades, giving the false impression they were bare when new. I have pulled axles out of 66s and 67s that there was no sign of paint, until you get them out and there is paint hidden up in the control arm brackets where it was protected from leaks and road grime.

With that said, even with the axle already fully covered in black paint when it arrived in the vehicle assembly plant, the vehicle assembly plants did (again, at least in 65-67) still apply some additional chassis blackout around the rear suspension. It is common (at least in 65-67) to find it on the bottom half of the spiral shocks and on the tail pipes behind the axle. That obviously resulted in some overspray on portions of the axle too, which WOULD create some variation from one vehicle assembly plant to another, and from one car to the next. And that extra coat of paint would also slow down the degradation of the axle plant paint in those areas, creating even more variation over time (as some cars were exposed to more oily fluids underneath than others).

On a related note, I have two low mileage Baltimore 67 Chevelles that also have blackout on the front suspension, erratically covering the front and lower sides of the front sway bar and outer tie rods, and the lower part of the front of the springs and shocks (as well as overspray onto the front of the lower control arms). And I know that was factory applied, because there are copious amounts of runs and "drip-tits", which all defy gravity and go straight toward the sky -- because it was sprayed on while the frame was still upside down on the assembly line. So it didn't happen at the dealer, or after the car was sold.

[turbo69bird]

Yes, The "Welded" Look. Couldn't quickly locate any photos of the axles ive done but this is a Driveshaft f01 a 71 Judge that we Airbrushed the Welds. Impossible to tell that its not real

Very similar to how I did mine but went a little more champagne color on the weld itself otherwise identical .

[RamAirBirds]

Jeff, This is a very good post. The Tech Service Bulletin is some strong evidence for the 68-72 CHEVROLET Axles. This brings me to the newest question. Since the 1970 Trans Am and the 1971-1972 GTOs used a Chevrolet 12-Bolt axle wouldn't it be safe to say that these cars would be a Black Axle and backing plates. I am restoring a 70 TA right now and feel this should be the case. I may have to create a new thread regarding those models to get the attention of the 70F and 70-72 A Pontiac owners. I would refer people back to this thread to review all of these great posts. Any thoughts on the Pontiac's with the Chevrolet 12-bolt installed before I start a new thread? Also the 71 up Pontiac Firebirds used the "Corporate" axle same as Camaro so.....would that be all black as well..
Thanks for all the participation with some great info.