Black Ghost - Hemi Challenger

[tom M]

i have always thought of this guy as a backyard hack,but he makes some sense here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=V2LjOvcnBFU&fbclid=IwAR2lgW9EePa1p07r-jiJLTfWrV5o3L1RgbSDRkCRI3sZIJxDdbwNSZwBmwg

[DW31S]

I know a stock ‘70 Hemi Challenger in 1970 couldn’t hang with the Silver Bullet or that Gapp & Roush Mustang in 1975. Could Pennington’s Corvette today through exhaust manifolds? Yes Indeed. Could a 1970 Stock Hemi anything through exhaust manifolds in 1970. No way. Hell, the SS/EA Hemi SuperBird Chrysler built for Jack Werst to beat Ray Allen’s Briggs Chevelle couldn’t run with the Silver Bullet. There were some damn fast street cars back then, and if that Black Ghost car is currently how it was in the 1970s, this guy is probably on to something. Wanna talk about another fast street car from that era, look up the “Mutt Brothers”….that Challenger wasn’t in the same league.

[1971ls6]

He is right on the money!

The latest thing on the Detroit streets is that he turned down 1.5 million a week before the auction

[GotGrunt]

I never heard of the car until it was publicized by hagerty & dodge a few years ago. Although the back story might be true, I highly doubt a bone stock hemi challenger “dominated Detroit street racing” as the hagerty headline said.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/video/black-ghost-the-mysterious-1970-challenger-that-dominated-detroit-street-racing/

[cook_dw]

“He also vows to keep the car in the family and someday pass it on to his own son.“


So much for passing down to his own son.

[LT1vette]

i have always thought of this guy as a backyard hack,but he makes some sense here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=V2LjOvcnBFU&fbclid=IwAR2lgW9EePa1p07r-jiJLTfWrV5o3L1RgbSDRkCRI3sZIJxDdbwNSZwBmwg

He DOES look, talk, like a hack for sure. But apparently he was on a Mopar magazine payroll, I never googled it.
He has some legit points, long winded for sure. But the car "appears" on the scene in the last 12-18 months(?). No mention of it with the Legendary "back door" cars when you see a write up about them. "Got my doors blown off by a black Challenger the other night, never seen the car before!"

Never saw it mentioned in a Royal Pontiac story, a Roush story......

[Lee Stewart]

Did the original owner order the car as we see it today? A Gator Grain vinyl top on a Hemi is super rare.

The Silver Bullet ran an A990 Super Stock Hemi which put out around 750 horsepower. The same engine that powered the 1968 Darts and Barracudas to 10 second quarter miles.

[EZ Nova]

Thanks Lee, never knew or thought about my much-love '68 Hemi cars being a A990. I know a few guys from the streets in D in the mid 90's till now. No one ever mentioned this BLACK Challenger.

I think this car could very well be defeated, but not as a big streetracer? Maybe the minor leagues but not with the hitters back then. A Motion ANYTHING car, Mr.s Norms stuff, Nicky/Dana cars would have killed this even if it was worked on some.

I have a friend, that raced his 1969 4sp L78 Nova he bought new in 69. Headers, recurved dist, slicks with 4.10's, the car ran 11's. Ain't no was that hemi would run do his Nova with it's stock motor/manifolds. I "could" see tuned and preped to a mid 12 ot even a low 12. But no way would it run with cars like that.

NOt sure IF the MAX WEDGE BROTHERS were runnin there stuff back then either, I don't think they had there hitter at the time, think they were a bit after.

[GrumpyJeff]

I'm Sure late at night it whooped up on it's share unsuspecting Stock Muscle. So it may of had a known reputation? But a Street Racing Legend in Detroit in that time frame ? As someone else said "Minor league threat on the streets of some Very Heavy Hitters ... Cool car & owners Story tho

[70 copo]

Uncle Tony is spot on. That car is fantastic in its own right, but there is a very simple way to find out... spin it down the quarter mile and see what she runs. If the trick mods are there you will be able to tell pretty quick right?

That is the point of the video and on the numbers He is correct.

So if the car doesn't somehow crack into the 10's then I would agree that the hobby is being played by another hoax.

[Mr70]

What's this?,manipulation with the intent to gain more money in the classic car hobby? Say it isn't so.
Unfortunately this has been going on since the wheel was invented.
I 've always taken that particular cars story with a grain of salt,for so many reasons.
It stands on it's own for how it was built,it doesn't need a outlandish story like that.

[DW31S]

Did the original owner order the car as we see it today? A Gator Grain vinyl top on a Hemi is super rare.

The Silver Bullet ran an A990 Super Stock Hemi which put out around 750 horsepower. The same engine that powered the 1968 Darts and Barracudas to 10 second quarter miles.

Actually, the Silver Bullet’s mill was closer to 500 cubic inches. It was “poked & stroked” by Chrysler engineers and was also put on a helluva diet, as it had fiberglass nose, doors, etc. It was a freakin’ beast that ran through 4 Cadillac mufflers. It ran bottom 10s. The “Sudden Death” Mustang (Mustang II) was even quicker as it ran mid 9s. The Black Ghost wouldn’t have been a threat to those two.

[markjohnson]

Twice, I see much-respected Tony DeFeo described as a “hack” in this thread. He’s owned, raced, driven Fuel cars, Hemi cars, was a pioneer in the Fox-body Mustang movement, etc. He’s a long-time wrench spinner operating at a Jedi-level. He’s the “hack” that will get your car started for you at a car show before you can even call AAA on your phones.

[67BelAir427]

Twice, I see much-respected Tony DeFeo described as a “hack” in this thread. He’s owned, raced, driven Fuel cars, Hemi cars, was a pioneer in the Fox-body Mustang movement, etc. He’s a long-time wrench spinner operating at a Jedi-level. He’s the “hack” that will get your car started for you at a car show before you can even call AAA on your phones.

Tony Defeo is not a hack. I have followed him since his days at Cars Illustrated. Honest to a fault and not beholden to auto companies, part manufacturers or auction houses.

[Lee Stewart]

It may be a case where The Black Ghost was very selective about which cars he ran against. Take on anything out of the showrooms - guaranteed he would win, except maybe another Hemi, and he probably avoided racing them.

If you street race and win a lot, you get a reputation which you then have to defend. Better to not race and keep your reputation intact then lose and get a ding to your reputation.

But beating a professionally built Super Stock car running on the street . . . never happened.

It's evident that with all the street racing, only a handful of cars became legends. And yes, the Black Ghost was one of them.

A legend is presumed to have some basis in historical fact and tends to mention real people or events. Historical fact morphs into a legend when the truth has been exaggerated to the point that real people or events have taken on a romanticized, "larger than life" quality.

[70 copo]

Legends have proponents. Follow the money.

[Lee Stewart]

Legends have proponents. Follow the money.

What is the job of an auction house? You might say to put a seller and a buyer together. And that would be a fact. But they do more than that.

Their real job is to get the highest price possible for the seller. Their commission depends on it as does their reputation.

I remember when Mecum was standing in the shadow of Barret-Jackson. Now IMO, it's reversed. Mecum is getting the high dollar cars and B-J isn't. They earned their current standing. And getting big bucks for the Black Ghost is just one example of their prowess.

[William]

Mecum gets much criticism for not vetting old muscle as B-J does. Those days are quickly fading as dockets are increasingly trucks, resto-mods, late model exotics. No need to vet those. With their busy schedule, they are eating B-Js lunch.

Wonder what direction the new B-J ownership will take.

[Pro Stock John]

Tony is a long time performance car journalist.

I think his points are valid, the car was all stock and most likely the owner simply took it out once in a while and ran some other folks from a light when cruising.

[TarheelRyan]

As the high bidder of the Black Ghost, here is my 2 cents worth. It is a fully documented, triple black, "original" numbers matching Hemi Challenger R/T SE 4 speed with a gator grain top. The documentation for the car is in the top 1% of all Mopar's. As for the history of this car, I will listen to (1) Dodge Factory; (2) Hagerty; (3) Bob Ashton; (4) Dave Wise; and (5) the Qualls' family any day of the week over Uncle Tony's Garage.

Over the past 2 days, I have seen the absolute best and worst of the classic/muscle car community in its treatment of this car. As far as I'm concerned, it is a bad ass Hemi Challenger with a trailer hitch that has a pretty cool backstory...embellished or not.

[juliosz]

I guess I don’t recall anyone saying it ran against the famous Detroit street cars. This guy, is forgetting one thing, nobody twisted anyone’s arm to pay $975k.

One by one, the guys who were there are leaving us. Now what mostly remains are guys like this who think they know the Detroit street scene from back in the day, which they don’t.

[70 copo]

As the high bidder of the Black Ghost, here is my 2 cents worth. It is a fully documented, triple black, "original" numbers matching Hemi Challenger R/T SE 4 speed with a gator grain top. The documentation for the car is in the top 1% of all Mopar's. As for the history of this car, I will listen to (1) Dodge Factory; (2) Hagerty; (3) Bob Ashton; (4) Dave Wise; and (5) the Qualls' family any day of the week over Uncle Tony's Garage.

Over the past 2 days, I have seen the absolute best and worst of the classic/muscle car community in its treatment of this car. As far as I'm concerned, it is a bad ass Hemi Challenger with a trailer hitch that has a pretty cool backstory...embellished or not.


Outstanding and congrats, are you planning to see how she runs on the track?

[DW31S]

I don’t think anyone is doubting the rarity or provenance of the car. It’s a 1 of 1 and it survived. My idea of a “street racing legend” isn’t a 13 second boulevard cruiser. Congrats on the purchase… it’s a helluva car.

[turbojet427]

Yeah, that's exactly what you should do Ryan. Drop $975k on an original drivetrain car that's in the National Historic Vehicle Register and run its ass off trying to squeeze every hundredth out of it.

[TarheelRyan]

I have no plans of running it down the track as I think a Hyundai Sonata probably has a better 1/4 mile time than a bone stock 70 Hemi Challenger. Next month, I will probably load it in the trailer and take it down to the local cars and coffee meet where there will be a sea of Porsche's, McLaren's, etc. My hope is a young kid or 2 will see it and take interest in it or it will bring back a good memory for some old timer walking around. Too many of these cars are getting bought up and stored away in private collections. There are a few of us trying to buy these cars to share with others and keep the hobby alive, but then we have to deal with bullshit like the Uncle Tony's Garage video. The sad thing is Uncle Tony knows what he is talking about and he should be spending his time sharing his knowledge and celebrating the muscle cars of yesterday instead of trashing them to earn ad revenue. For the record, there was NOTHING Mecum said or did to impact my decision to buy this car. I was not scammed by anyone in my decision to buy the car. I was just one of several hundred people at Mecum that day that overpaid for a car...nothing less and nothing more. My garage is open to anyone at anytime. If anyone that reads this message is ever in the Bradenton, Florida area, shoot me a message as you are welcome to stop by...and yes The Black Ghost will be there.

[Formula455SD]

Internet hype paid off for the guy.

Cool car nevertheless....

[Stefano]

I have no plans of running it down the track as I think a Hyundai Sonata probably has a better 1/4 mile time than a bone stock 70 Hemi Challenger. Next month, I will probably load it in the trailer and take it down to the local cars and coffee meet where there will be a sea of Porsche's, McLaren's, etc. My hope is a young kid or 2 will see it and take interest in it or it will bring back a good memory for some old timer walking around. Too many of these cars are getting bought up and stored away in private collections. There are a few of us trying to buy these cars to share with others and keep the hobby alive, but then we have to deal with bullshit like the Uncle Tony's Garage video. The sad thing is Uncle Tony knows what he is talking about and he should be spending his time sharing his knowledge and celebrating the muscle cars of yesterday instead of trashing them to earn ad revenue. For the record, there was NOTHING Mecum said or did to impact my decision to buy this car. I was not scammed by anyone in my decision to buy the car. I was just one of several hundred people at Mecum that day that overpaid for a car...nothing less and nothing more. My garage is open to anyone at anytime. If anyone that reads this message is ever in the Bradenton, Florida area, shoot me a message as you are welcome to stop by...and yes The Black Ghost will be there.

Congrats on your latest acquisition!

[JRC99]

Yeah, that's exactly what you should do Ryan. Drop $975k on an original drivetrain car that's in the National Historic Vehicle Register and run its ass off trying to squeeze every hundredth out of it.

Shoot, I would. The entire point of the Hemi was racing. Otherwise it's a $975k paperweight.

[Keith Seymore]

One by one, the guys who were there are leaving us. Now what mostly remains are guys like this who think they know the Detroit street scene from back in the day, which they don’t.

I've lived near and hung out on Woodward my entire life.

I'm really sorry - but I never heard of the Black Ghost until a couple years ago.

My Pontiac buds that I have asked had not either.

K

[Tuna Joe]

Congrats on a bad ass car!
As far as overpaying, time will be the judge of that.
I’m sure folks that paid big money 20 years ago for cars like AC Cobras were considered to have overpaid too.

[Keith Seymore]

“He also vows to keep the car in the family and someday pass it on to his own son.“


So much for passing down to his own son.

He gets no judgement from me.

Who knows what any of us would do if that much money was waved under our nose.

(On the other hand, my sister would kill me).

K

[Lee Stewart]

Congrats on a bad ass car!
As far as overpaying, time will be the judge of that.
I’m sure folks that paid big money 20 years ago for cars like AC Cobras were considered to have overpaid too.

Just a few short years ago, actor David Spade paid $975K for a 69 Hemi Daytona. Many said it was crazy money. Fast forward . . . he sold it for $1.5 million.

[Nasblu]

Regardless if that car was street raced nightly or was used as a street sweeper for the city of Detroit who the hell cares. The car is a killer car end of story. Let’s celebrate the fact the car exists. I am more excited to see the cars paperwork than a time slip. Let the critics bitch they weren’t buyers anyway.

[69 Post Sedan]

Actually, the Silver Bullet’s mill was closer to 500 cubic inches. It was “poked & stroked” by Chrysler engineers and was also put on a helluva diet, as it had fiberglass nose, doors, etc. It was a freakin’ beast that ran through 4 Cadillac mufflers. It ran bottom 10s. The “Sudden Death” Mustang (Mustang II) was even quicker as it ran mid 9s. The Black Ghost wouldn’t have been a threat to those two.

Spot on….487ci….definitely a hired gun!!!

Kurt

And to top it off…..it had Cragars…..j/s

[Formula455SD]

Internet hype and money aside....


A loaded up triple black '70 Hemi Challenger with original paint and drivetrain is the one to have. Good luck finding another one like it....

[cook_dw]

He gets no judgement from me.

Who knows what any of us would do if that much money was waved under our nose.

(On the other hand, my sister would kill me).

K



I would hope I wouldn’t have made that statement and then sold later on. The green car will be sold for whatever the market value is when I’m gone. Wife gets the funds and she can do with it what she wants. Only stipulation is that whoever the next owner will be will cherish it like I and my father have. Sometimes money doesn’t mean as much as the objects memories it holds for that person.. I hope I can stick to my own morals as life goes on. But then again I don’t have to worry about someone offering me that kinda coin either..

[JRC99]

I've said from day one I don't plan on selling the Camaro or the Mustang. The Camaro is only if I get so financially destitute I have no other choice.

The Mustang, it doesn't matter what happens to me it's not leaving this family. I will either pass it along to the next generation or I will be buried in it. Okay maybe hyperbole on the burial- that's no good for the car- but seriously I will be dead before that car ever leaves me.

[69LM1]

As far as not selling, life happens. I sold Tin Soldier to put my kids through college without debt. I then had the opportunity to buy it back later on when finances were better, so I did (for more).

Was the car at subject here hyped for more than it was? Maybe. What seller doesn't put his car in the best light. Was there any lines crossed (ie fake options etc) should be the real question.

My .02, not worth much,

/R

[EZ Nova]

He, we can now put the "Black Ghost, DETROIT STREET RACING LEGEND" to rest.

This is from 1976. By then there was a mine of 25 10 sec or better cars with mufflers a bunch that could run that slicked/headered. Sounds like this Challenger was in the "daddy-stock" style of racing, not the legit $$$ or respect racers/hitter class. Ain't now way the Black Ghost would even attempt to run Silver Bullet or Blackbird.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/a15142490/the-heirs-of-woodward-avenue-detroits-1970s-street-racing-culture-archived-feature/

But that being said, it still would be a nice car to have and I know people that pay HUGE because they want something they want and have the $$$ to throw around. I know of a cloned '67 L88 Vette the guy paid just over $300,000. $400,000+ drag cars, million $$$ exoctics. Guys that can afford it sometimes just pays whatever it takes. I said to most, is it worth it, they says YES to THEM.

[RPOLS3]

Congratulations on the purchase Ryan!

[southernfriedcj]

I was just one of several hundred people at Mecum that day that overpaid for a car...nothing less and nothing more. My garage is open to anyone at anytime. If anyone that reads this message is ever in the Bradenton, Florida area, shoot me a message as you are welcome to stop by...and yes The Black Ghost will be there.

You didn't overpay. You paid what the car was worth to you.

Next time I'm down your way I'd love to see the car. I'm one of the folks that prefers Challengers over Cudas. I owned a couple Challenger T/As myself.

[lowmile]

Every town in America had guys and cars that street raced. Did this story seem over done sure it did. A few years I was standing around in a group of seven or eight guys at a cars show about 30 miles from my home town. I didn't know any of them but they were swapping street racing stories, one of them brings up my name and starts in on a story. They don't know its me standing there and I don't say a word. The guy tells the story and I sound like a street racing legend so of course I just sit back and listen because to hear him tell it I was a lot meaner and my car was a hell of lot faster than it ever was. I walked off and chuckled to myself. not about to set the record straight. I said all that to say this, no car from that era ever gets slower or the the story less intense, as time passes. I would the imagine that the person who purchased the car did it for the car itself and took the story for for what it is, one more embellished tale about a time and passion that we'd all like to revisit.

[the427king]

Its safe to say the car didnt get into the library of Congress as a historically significant vehicle, displayed at the National Mall in front of the white house , as the subject of a movie ,and used as a last call version of the 2023 dodge challenger solely because its a high optioned , low production 2 family member owned challenger. It needed embellishment and people pushing the car without fully fact checking evidently to get there. I believe someone from Dodge said in an article they were on board with the car the second they were told about it,they didnt hesitate. It was said to be undefeated in one article, and in another it "usually " won. Everyone is quick to say they dont care if the story is made up, its a great car anyway ...really????? YES, the true complete story about the car does matter if that "story" is the reason all the acccolades/attention/pedigree was given to the car in the first place. Just my 02 cents that dont matter

[GotGrunt]

From the hagerty article:

“He taped a $100 bill to the dash and told me … ‘When I say go, if you can reach it, it’s yours,’” Gregory says. Just as Gregory began to reach for the bill, his father hit the gas, and he was immediately pinned back against the seat. “I couldn’t get it … and I was scared. I remember that.”

Must be one helluva 13 second car :D I can’t even count the number of times I’ve heard this same story about the $100 bill. You hear it at every car show.

[cook_dw]

I used to do the same thing when I was a teenager and I took my buddies out in my dad's black SS/RS L78 (L34 originally) car. It would just destroy a set of cheap ole 15" radials of the early 90's. I was using $5's not $100's though.. We were just dumb hick kids though. Sorta like the guy in the video (which is ok in my book).. We all had greasy finger nails and didn't give a shit what people thought of us. Still don't.

[whitetop]

Here is a real deal 427 Nova line em up serious street racer from my area back in the day. Not a poser or show car...it was built to run races on the street.
Notice the crude gauge mounting setup-all about function, not show car looks, toggle switch behind steering wheel to shut off the tailights, cb radio.
Has not been out since the late 70's.
I took these photos back in the 90's.

[70 copo]

Its safe to say the car didnt get into the library of Congress as a historically significant vehicle, displayed at the National Mall in front of the white house , as the subject of a movie ,and used as a last call version of the 2023 dodge challenger solely because its a high optioned , low production 2 family member owned challenger. It needed embellishment and people pushing the car without fully fact checking evidently to get there. I believe someone from Dodge said in an article they were on board with the car the second they were told about it,they didnt hesitate. It was said to be undefeated in one article, and in another it "usually " won. Everyone is quick to say they dont care if the story is made up, its a great car anyway ...really????? YES, the true complete story about the car does matter if that "story" is the reason all the acccolades/attention/pedigree was given to the car in the first place. Just my 02 cents that dont matter

Excellent analysis above.

I might be the only person on this forum that actually negotiated successfully with the same corporate partners to get a car in the cube and recognized by the HVA.

We had all the proof needed. In the end it was a financial calculation by the corporate interests... was the story compelling enough to make money on?

Once that line was crossed they were in hook line and sinker. I commented on and even authored the press release materials. I insisted on 100% facts and no embellishments. That was THE struggle because a corporate interest always has a marketing plan.

[bashton]

Congrats go out to Ryan on his acquisition of a truly unique and incredibly interesting and very real car.

A few facts to ponder;

1. Tony DeFeo, who certainly is knowledgeable and has been around for a while, has absolutely become a hack who seems to have no purpose but to add to his YouTube subscriber list. Heck...he can't even pronounce Mecum properly. He wasn't there then and he doesn't do his research. I have lost ALL respect I may have had for him after watching his various YouTube videos over the past few years, even before this.

2. I was born and raised in Detroit and spent a considerable amount of time partaking in various forms of, shall we say, unauthorized after hours activities as a teenager. I made a considerable amount of money in my (then) brand spanking new black 1977 Sport Fury that received a massaged 440-6 after the 12k warrantee was up. Has Tony ever heard about that one? While I was racing after Godfrey was, many of us knew all about him. And NO...I wasnt faster than the Silver Bullitt and knew enough to stay away from him.

3. NO...I never raced the Silver Bullitt or the Gapp & Roush Mustang or Steve Lisks Challenger or anything else that clearly would have devoured me, as I am sure Godfrey wouldn't have. I'm also sure they would not have unloaded from the trailer to race Godfrey.

4. There were literally hundreds of cars street racing at that time. Those of us out there certainly wouldn't waste our time (and money!) racing those cars unless we had something to bring to the table.

5. I absolutely was fully aware of the "very fast" black Challenger and also knew it was being run by a Police Officer even before I was ever out there.

6. There was a LOT of activity that took place outside of Woodward and Telegraph. Wonder if Mr. DeFeo ever heard of French Rd? Probably not...

7. Much of the racing took place SOUTH of 8 Mile road. Being a DPD Officer, Godfrey may have chosen to not cross the line, as he was obviously well connected in that area.

8. The Quall's Family NEVER contacted the HMVA. In fact, I spent hours with the family back in 2015 assisting with a plan to properly bring the car out into the public.

9. Gregory's plan from DAY ONE was to honor his Father and his legacy for a few years. When I learned that he was a decorated Vietnam Vet, an honored DPD Motorcycle cop and that he went BACK into the military to serve again, I knew people would love to hear the story of a TRUE American Hero. There is no disputing this.

10. Mr. DeFeo's totally false implication that Greg's intention was to make a movie is 100% off. The "trailer" that is online was created by an outside person with absolutely NO input from Greg or his family. It was created by a fan of the car who suggested to Greg that it would be really neat to see a movie about Godfrey. Hopefully in the future we WILL see a movie based on Godfreys amazing story.

11. Godfrey NEVER told Greg to never sell the car. He told him it was a very special car and to do some research. I believe he was telling Greg that the car had significant value and that it could benefit his family. That was most likely why he held onto it for so many years as he certainly could have sold it himself. I have spoken to several people that offered him a significant amount of money over the years. I believe Godfrey made sure to sign off the title to Greg so that the end result would be beneficial to Greg, his wife and his two Grandkids.

This is a PRIME example of someone jumping on an opportunity to build up their YouTube subscriber list without doing the proper research. "Yeah...I read it on the internet, so it must be true!"

I'll step off my soapbox now....

Mr. DeFeo;shame on you. Karma is real and you'll get yours.

Ryan; CONGRATULATIONS! I am so happy to see a true enthusiast who "gets it" and who shares his passion and enthusiasm with those of us who live and breath all the POSITIVE things this hobby offers.

Bashton

[Xplantdad]

Thanks Bob!:beers:

[Steve Shauger]

I just came upon the thread this afternoon. When the thread was opened who knew the motivation of the buyer. We had a lot of opinions, but what takes the cake is Youtube Tony. Based on what I have observed take Tony's opinion with a grain of salt, he had no intimate knowledge and again attempted to trash the car and family with no facts. Thanks Bob (Ashton) for providing facts and context to the Black Ghost.

To the buyer who purchased the car for its styling, performance and rarity kudos. Ryan is an example of a true enthusiast because he uses his cars (not wall art) he appreciates the styling, embraces the flaws of 60's musclecars and shares his cars, so others can learn and appreciate them. I like the idea of giving the Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari folks at the Cars and Coffee a little ribbing and perhaps converting a few.

Congratulations and enjoy your stellar collection!!!!!

[tom M]

the fastest car i remember in winston salem nc in the 70's was a blue 67 r/t 440 car.
car was ratty looking but he won a lot.
the only hemi car i saw back then was a black hemi charger with a 383 in it.
they raced on friday nights at the yadkin river bridge at the forsyth county/yadkin county line on route 67.it was a great time to be a teenager.

[Jimlt4383]

the fastest car i remember in winston salem nc in the 70's was a blue 67 r/t 440 car.
car was ratty looking but he won a lot.
the only hemi car i saw back then was a black hemi charger with a 383 in it.
they raced on friday nights at the yadkin river bridge at the forsyth county/yadkin county line on route 67.it was a great time to be a teenager.

Do you remember this car? Factory l88 from modern Chevrolet in Winston-Salem. There were some hot cars in that town.

[tom M]

i sure dont.i remember modern chevy,though.

[Bad67300]

I have no plans of running it down the track as I think a Hyundai Sonata probably has a better 1/4 mile time than a bone stock 70 Hemi Challenger. Next month, I will probably load it in the trailer and take it down to the local cars and coffee meet where there will be a sea of Porsche's, McLaren's, etc. My hope is a young kid or 2 will see it and take interest in it or it will bring back a good memory for some old timer walking around. Too many of these cars are getting bought up and stored away in private collections. There are a few of us trying to buy these cars to share with others and keep the hobby alive, but then we have to deal with bullshit like the Uncle Tony's Garage video. The sad thing is Uncle Tony knows what he is talking about and he should be spending his time sharing his knowledge and celebrating the muscle cars of yesterday instead of trashing them to earn ad revenue. For the record, there was NOTHING Mecum said or did to impact my decision to buy this car. I was not scammed by anyone in my decision to buy the car. I was just one of several hundred people at Mecum that day that overpaid for a car...nothing less and nothing more. My garage is open to anyone at anytime. If anyone that reads this message is ever in the Bradenton, Florida area, shoot me a message as you are welcome to stop by...and yes The Black Ghost will be there.

Congrats on the purchase! Doesn't matter whether people think you overpaid or not. If you are happy with the purchase then it was well-bought. At least that's the take I have when buying something I want. Quite frankly, I thought it would go for more and overall felt many cars were sold a bit soft. My one wish on it was that it wouldn't go overseas, so thanks for stepping up! I'm originally from Venice, FL, high school in Sarasota, and get down there from time to time. Would love to swing by B town and see the car in person!

[napa68]

Perhaps this would be a good time to rename this thread? Seems as though there are some interesting posts and information that are far more contructive than the title would indicate. Just my humble .02:dunno:

[AnthonyS]

^ I second the motion, all in favor?…

[markinnaples]

the fastest car i remember in winston salem nc in the 70's was a blue 67 r/t 440 car.
car was ratty looking but he won a lot.
the only hemi car i saw back then was a black hemi charger with a 383 in it.
they raced on friday nights at the yadkin river bridge at the forsyth county/yadkin county line on route 67.it was a great time to be a teenager.

Question: If the black Hemi Charger had a 383, it wasn't a Hemi then? Sorry, just confused.

[70 copo]

^ I second the motion, all in favor?…

No. Leave it as it is. Steve has said previously he doesn’t want censorship.

This thread is amazingly instructive as to what was said and by who.

The truth needs no defense. It will stand on its own just fine.

[VintageMusclecar]

Nevermind.

[Steve Shauger]

Perhaps this would be a good time to rename this thread? Seems as though there are some interesting posts and information that are far more contructive than the title would indicate. Just my humble .02:dunno:

Thanks Tim(napa68) I should have done that yesterday! I few member requested I close and or delete the thread. This thread has enlighted me as well as other members / viewers and in fact I think a lesson has been learned. Initially there were a few unfortunate opinions formed based on the Youtube video, but once facts were presented this story became a learning experience and appreciated. I look forward to learning more about the storied history of this rare and iconic car.

[HuggerSS]

I think it is an awesome story… I hope that they do end up make a movie about the car. It would even be cool if they made a modern version with the 2023 Challenger Black Ghost.

The 2023 Challenger Black Ghost should have had the African flag below the Challenger badges. Dodge should have also incorporated the alligator skin into the seats to match the original top.

[Lee Stewart]

https://images2.imgbox.com/c5/4b/LvawBAb5_o.jpg (https://imgbox.com/LvawBAb5)

[luzl78]

Great car and story! If that was a vert you could add another million to the price paid.

[Lee Stewart]

The car is 1 of 22 4 speed Hemi Challenger R/T Special Editions. And it has a Gator Grain Top.

[Xplantdad]

My two pics from MCACN 2017 :)


On the right...



https://yenko.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=103670&stc=1&d=1511470104





https://yenko.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=103672&stc=1&d=1511470104

[EZ Nova]

As the high bidder of the Black Ghost, here is my 2 cents worth. It is a fully documented, triple black, "original" numbers matching Hemi Challenger R/T SE 4 speed with a gator grain top. The documentation for the car is in the top 1% of all Mopar's. As for the history of this car, I will listen to (1) Dodge Factory; (2) Hagerty; (3) Bob Ashton; (4) Dave Wise; and (5) the Qualls' family any day of the week over Uncle Tony's Garage.

Over the past 2 days, I have seen the absolute best and worst of the classic/muscle car community in its treatment of this car. As far as I'm concerned, it is a bad ass Hemi Challenger with a trailer hitch that has a pretty cool backstory...embellished or not.

Ryan, congrads on the purchase and this is definitely a great car as well as very very valuable. I can remember seeing a certain 1971 Hemi Challenger Convert for sale at a local meet for $35,000 US and thinking this guys need really good meds as that was crazy $$$ in mid to late '80s!!!!

The car is legit an all ways as being OG paint and triple black, Gator top Hemi 4sp.

[njsteve]

can remember seeing a certain 1971 Hemi Challenger Convert for sale at a local meet for $35,000 US and thinking this guys need really good meds as that was crazy $$$ in mid to late '80s!!!!


That would be way overpriced in the 1980's since Dodge never made a 1971 426 Hemi Challenger R/T convertible. It was only produced in 1970. The largest engine you could get in 1971 was a 383 in a non-R/T convertible. For 1971, Dodge killed off the R/T convertible option.

[Formula455SD]

In one of the garage photos it shows the car with a wire wheel cover and now the car has dog dishes. Which wheel covers did it come from the factory with?

[Big Block Bill]

In the last photo of the right side @ MCACN, you can see signs of previously installed full wheel covers of some style by the scratches on the outer most lip of the rims. Bill

[EZ Nova]

That would be way overpriced in the 1980's since Dodge never made a 1971 426 Hemi Challenger R/T convertible. It was only produced in 1970. The largest engine you could get in 1971 was a 383 in a non-R/T convertible. For 1971, Dodge killed off the R/T convertible option.

So Rene's Purple and white is a 70??? Could very well be. I know better as the white RT strip on the side was the full length thin one, not the thick 2/3s car length one.

[Lee Stewart]

https://images2.imgbox.com/0d/88/8OWflXes_o.jpg (https://imgbox.com/8OWflXes)

1970 Hemi Challenger R/T convertible

https://www.mecum.com/lots/366594/1970-dodge-hemi-challenger-rt-convertible/

[njsteve]

So Rene's Purple and white is a 70??? Could very well be. I know better as the white RT strip on the side was the full length thin one, not the thick 2/3s car length one.

Yes, Rene's was a 70. I remember it well. Rene had it around the same time I had my yellow 1971 hemicuda ragtop. I think he sold it to Otis Chandler right after I sold mine to Otis.

[luv2sixty9]

I discredited the video and or his comments as soon as he said the car was "Roachy".

Congrats Ryan on buying a very special car.

[1971ls6]

I had dinner last night with a few of the mopar guys that looked at the car in the mid 90’s, the old man wanted $85,000 for it, that was areal big number for the time. They also mentioned the rotted out floor.

[L_e_e]

I met Godfrey in 1985, he wanted $10,000, car was only 15yrs old at the time and it was in the same condition back then as it is today.

[bashton]

In one of the garage photos it shows the car with a wire wheel cover and now the car has dog dishes. Which wheel covers did it come from the factory with?

The car left the line with 15" steel wheels and the standard small caps. Godfrey would occasionally run with the 14" wheels with the wire wheelcovers and would also swap out the rears for slicks when needed.

Bashton

[tom M]

Yes, Rene's was a 70. I remember it well. Rene had it around the same time I had my yellow 1971 hemicuda ragtop. I think he sold it to Otis Chandler right after I sold mine to Otis.

i believe that was owned by a fellow in gainesville ga back in the late 80's.he also had a 69 T/A ragtop.
the Atlanta constitution did an article about him and his cars.

[70 copo]

So what (if any) internal modifications were made to the engine/drivetrain to make it so fast on the street?

1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
426ci/425hp, 3spd auto, 3.23, 0-60 - 5.8, 1/4 mile - 14. 10 @ 103.20mph

Car and Driver... Opinions?

[JRC99]

So what (if any) internal modifications were made to the engine/drivetrain to make it so fast on the street?

1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
426ci/425hp, 3spd auto, 3.23, 0-60 - 5.8, 1/4 mile - 14. 10 @ 103.20mph

Car and Driver... Opinions?

Well, the 'Ghost' is a 4.10 4 speed so it would be a bit quicker than that with a good driver I'd imagine.

That said, I might have read he put slicks and headers on it at one point. That's it I think. Nothing internal.

[70 copo]

Good. That cuts a full second off the time. Road tests show 13.1 @ 107

What else could have been done?

The top street cars in NE Ohio when I was A kid were all solid no excuses low 11 second cars.

And all of them were modified - even the Hemi’ cars.

What did the owner of this car do to close the gap to win consistently on the streets of Detroit then?

[napa68]

It's sad when a thread on THIS website starts to take on a "witch hunt" feel to it.

[70 copo]

True. Everyone loves a witch hunt as long as it's someone else's witch being hunted.

[cook_dw]

xfLAv0RAXQQ



https://youtu.be/xfLAv0RAXQQ

[Mr70]

It's just 20 minutes of Tony patting himself on the back.

[Steve Shauger]

The street racing information was provided by the previous owner who is now deceased and can't provide or defend. It's disappointing and embarrassing that the new owner and most membership have to put up with the constant picking on the car. This is a members car its NOT for sale. Provide him and his car some respect.

The few that continue to stir the pot find glee in doing so find another site.

[Xplantdad]

It's sad when a thread on THIS website starts to take on a "witch hunt" feel to it.


Amen. I just don't get it. Even without the racing info being taken into account, this is still a cool black Hemi Challenger.


For those who are posting negative stuff about the car, You didn't buy the car, the current owner Ryan did.


Wow, just wow. :(

[the427king]

I had watched the video of UncleTonys garage and had gone to the website he stated that the son was a part of. Interestingly he was listed as part of the team "creatives" with name and photo yesterday . Today his name and photo are no longer there. Pretty interesting

[70 copo]

I think The street Hemi has a lot in common with the DZ 302.

Both were High end engines and intended to be race engines by design.

As such responded well to modifications to reach the maximum potential.

[John Brown]

500 shot of nitrous? :confused:

[dustinm]

Who cares about how fast this car was, is, or whatever. I really dont get why guys are still going on about times... this was never a race car and back then who didnt street race? Every darn stop light was an offering didnt matter what was under the hood. This cars value and coolness is the owner history and documentation.

Im glad a true car guy like Ryan bought it and will treat it as such. I cant wait to see it sometime down there at cars and coffee

[njsteve]

The Black Ghost is a very cool car with a great history that was preserved for posterity through a variety of avenues: the stories, paperwork, photos, family, and the actual car.

Brings back memories of my old 1970 Hemi R/T-SE Charger 4 speed that I owned for 25 years. It was a fun car with an amazing history and I had the privilege/luck of moving to the next town over from where it originally terrorized the streets when new.

Only in this case it had the ultimate reputation of being "The Fastest Hemi That Never Won A Street Race" LOL. At any car show or cruise night I brought it to, another old guy would come up and say "Hey I beat this car in a race back in 1971...That kid that owned it sure couldn't drive."


https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77085

P.S. I managed to turn a 12.77 at 111 mph on street tires, with the car at Bradenton in 1992.

[Formula455SD]

A smart street racer chooses his battles.....

Example... I don't race Hellcats with my Scat Pack...

[bashton]

A smart street racer chooses his battles.....

Example... I don't race Hellcats with my Scat Pack...

Exactly!

I can assure you, Godfrey was no dummy.

Bashton

[tom M]

I had dinner last night with a few of the mopar guys that looked at the car in the mid 90’s, the old man wanted $85,000 for it, that was areal big number for the time. They also mentioned the rotted out floor.

one of them must have talked to tony because he just repeated what you stated on his latest video.
or he is following this thread and saw your post.:dunno:

[CamaroNOS]

Good. That cuts a full second off the time. Road tests show 13.1 @ 107

What else could have been done?

The top street cars in NE Ohio when I was A kid were all solid no excuses low 11 second cars.

And all of them were modified - even the Hemi’ cars.

What did the owner of this car do to close the gap to win consistently on the streets of Detroit then?


I suspect the owner did what I did back in the day, I carefully picked my battles back in my home town.

My Camaro was not any where near an 10 - 11 - 12 second car, as I was just a 17 year old kid with a shallow pockets. Having said that, I managed to only get beat once. I watched the serious street guys run their cars in amazement and just tried to learn a thing or two.

As far as the Black Ghost, for me it is a huge boost for our hobby that will all do us well. When was the last time a great car movie, based on a real story, hit the screens? At the end of the day, it will probably draw more folks into the muscle car world which is just a good thing to see.

I'm just sitting back with my bag of popcorn and waiting for the unveiling.

Paul

[Jeffp920]

Hello all, I have followed this thread since the start keeping quiet. I watched the auction knowing all the hype. I was elated that the car brought a nice figure for the seller. The buyer got a great car with a cool back story. That being said, I would love to see it at MCACN this year. Who cares if it was faster, or quicker? It is/was a great story concerning the car. It is still one of the most interestingly optioned hemi cars out there. Ryan is going to be a great care taker and will do the car right. Lets stop the trash and just enjoy the car for what it is. A great piece of automotive history.

[70 copo]

I suspect the owner did what I did back in the day, I carefully picked my battles back in my home town.

My Camaro was not any where near an 10 - 11 - 12 second car, as I was just a 17 year old kid with a shallow pockets. Having said that, I managed to only get beat once. I watched the serious street guys run their cars in amazement and just tried to learn a thing or two.

As far as the Black Ghost, for me it is a huge boost for our hobby that will all do us well. When was the last time a great car movie, based on a real story, hit the screens? At the end of the day, it will probably draw more folks into the muscle car world which is just a good thing to see.

I'm just sitting back with my bag of popcorn and waiting for the unveiling.

Paul


I am good with that for the entertainment value as long as we portray it as such and avoid the emotional trap of attempting to somehow redefine the performance characteristics because we happen to like a back story.

The foundation of this forum is a source of factual information. If that gets lost on the basics then that would be a waste of time for those who have invested in it.

I have been here for nearly 23 years... :3gears:

[Tracker1]

Not sure if this will be readable - pretty rare road test I have of a '70 Hemi Challenger with Firestone slicks and Jardine Headers, Fine-Fine-tuned and they obviously knew how to drive. It went 12.7. Two magazines tested this same car - the other mag did 12.95 in it. I have that test too. Just goes to show how capable the "right" Hemi was if the engine wasn't built on Friday or Monday. :) It was a mover.

[njsteve]

That's a cool article. Nice that it corroborates my 12.77 @ 111 in a similarly weighted (4040lbs) 426 hemi, with a 4-speed and 4.10s.

[EZ Nova]

Steve, a friend of mine built a clone almost to Rene's car. 1970 Challenger convert, Purple and white, Hemi 727 with gear vender, 4.10 Dana, 15 x8's rear and 15 x 7 fronts. Warmed over hemi that looked totally stock BUT for the headers. Could see the 2 throttle bodies due to the shaker. On BFG Radial T/As, that car RAN high to mid 10's. I believe it went 10.72 vs a A/SA 1970 Hemi Challenger back around 2003/05 at Grand Bend. Car is a Toronto streetcar. He can sit and idle that think in Toronto traffic for hours, and has. Or like that day, drive it over 3 hrs to Grand Bend and run it.

At the time, he also had and original paint 1970 Hemi Cuda, and a 1970 Cuda with a hemi as his racecar.

[sixpackfrank]

TarheelRyan. Congratulations on your purchase. Personally I am happy for you. Please do not let the negative comments or posts get to you. It is a great car and happens to have it's own history. I have met and have talked to Greg Qualls. These are good....decent folks. The outcome of an auction is nothing that should lead to a judgement of the buyer or seller. As far as anyone should be concerned in this case it was the good fortune of the buyer who found something he wanted which resulted in the good fortune to the seller. I am happy for both. There is no place for negative comment regarding this.....it is classless! I wish you all the best as the new caretaker and look forward to meeting you sometime down the road. Frank Badalson

[Steve Shauger]

Frank is an authority( my opinion the) on Mopar brand. He has had a passion for these car for over 50 years and been head judge at many events. He is the lead judge -Mopar brand for Vintage Certification.

Welcome aboard Frank! It's about time buddy....

[TarheelRyan]

Thank you Frank for the kind words. Additionally, I want to thank everyone on this site that has reached out over the past couple of weeks. As a final post on the car, Johnny Hunkins at MotorTrend magazine does a good job at summarizing it for me:

https://www.motortrend.com/features/black-ghost-1970-dodge-hemi-challenger-rt-se-street-racer-sold-mecum/

Thanks again everyone!

[Xplantdad]

Really nice article! :headbang:

[Stefano]

Nice article. This has to be one of the most talked about Muscle Cars, of all time!

Everyone now knows the "Black Ghost".

[dykstra]

Great article!!

[Pro Stock John]

Good article by Johnny, I used to write for him at GMHTP. Put a nice bow on things.

[cruiserofland]

Great article and a special car :beers: