documenting original mileage/Motion Camaro

[rustyhale]

I have just inherited a 1969 Baldwin-Motion Phase III Camaro from my grandfathers estate, he bought from Baldwin Chevrolet, it new in 1969. All the paperwork and emblems are there, it has 17493.7 miles showing and I think this is the correct mileage, it was last inspected in 1981 and the inspection showed 15891 miles. I have not verified the car throught Joel yet, I have the original window sticker,invoice,bill of sale and title, so I know it is the real deal. Any info on this car would be helpful because I not know a lot about these particular cars since Joel keeps them shrouded in mystery, here is a description of the car:

Color http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/blush.giflympic Gold,White stripe
Interior:Black houndstooth/rosewood wheel, complete gauge pack
Suspension:4.10,with traction bars
Exterior:L-88 hood,big wing,Enduro Bumper, motion emlems on fenders and trunk, 427 emblems on the hood, original paint(in fair to poor condition),sidepipes, and Torque Thrust wheels

My car does not have a curved outlet on the radiator like the big block camaros did, and I noticed that Otis Chandlers does not either, has the radiator been replaced, and I have been told that these cars are not worth nearly what a Yenko Camaro is because they were an engine transplant instead of a COPO. I can't tell what the value of this car is by looking at Hemmings because I have never seen one in there for sale. I want to document the mileage because I intend to freshen the car up and drive it, any help/suggestions/comments would be greatly apprecitated.

[COPO]

Sounds like one cool Grandfather to me! Congrats on an awesome car. How about scanning and posting the paperwork. I am sure most of the board members would love to see it along with some pictures of the car.

[Edited by COPO (01-21-2001 at 08:10 PM).]

[JoeC]

Many of the Motion cars started out as SS 396/375 HP cars. Some of them may not have the curve neck radiator. You can also check all the numbers from the trim tag, engine, trans, and rear, to see what they decode as. Motion had his own wing that has three large posts mounting it to the trunk. Does the car have SS emblems on it and the Baldwin dealership decal? Is the stripe the wide Motion center stripe or the Chevy hockey stick fender stripe? Other Motion items are: the Phase III engine with a Holley 3 barrel carb and Mallory distributor with a CD box, Sun gages, Hurst shifter, Lakewood scatter shield. You should be very careful doing any work on the car. If you are not going to do a complete professional restoration it may be better to leave it in its present condition. It sounds like a great car. Take as many pictures of it as you can. I would like to see some pictures if possible.

[rustyhale]

Joe C.

The car has all the Baldwin decals and Motion decals in place,a motion decal on the left fenderwell under the hood, it has the hockey and wide stripes, the gauges,and shifter, I do not know about the scatter shield, a friend that works for a NASCAR team is going to freshen the engine and get it running and service the drivetrain, it a SS/RS with all SS emblems in place, we are taking lots of pictures for documentation, I have only been in possesion of this car a about a week, do you know how many 69 motion cars were built or how many remain, and why do you never see any of these for sale in hemmings or at auctions like Barrett-Jackson.

[JoeC]

rustyhale- It is not publicly known how many cars Motion built per year. We can only œguesstimate”. I live about 1hr. away from where the Motion cars were built and I know a few guys who are fans of the Motion cars and met guys who knew Joel and his crew from the drag strip and remember the Motion cars. The number I hear the most is about 50 1969 Camaros. Some say less then 50. Another guy told me Motion was doing one or two a week. That would mean 50 to 100. Motion did not have an assemble line. We can look at other non-assembly line cars that we know the numbers for like for example the 1967 and 1968 Yenko Camaros. There were 54 1967 Yenkos and 64 1968 Yenkos. In 1969 Yenko used the assembly line built COPO cars and sold 198 Camaros. NHRA required that 50 cars had to be built to make a legal Super Stock drag car so NHRA must have thought that 50 was a reasonable number for a special built factory car. I am just trying to give you a rough idea for discussion only. As far as the value, again there are no hard numbers to use. I looked at a 1969 Motion Chevelle last summer that needed a complete restoration. The owner had a letter from Joel saying that the vin number was on JoelÃs list. I believe this car sold for about 50K. There was a Motion Phase III GT Corvette for sale on a Corvette web site recently with an asking price of 150K but I do not know if it was sold. Regardless of how you look at it, a 1969 Motion Phase III Camaro with full documentation and varification from Joel is both very rare and valuable. I have a lot of articles on the Motion cars but most photos are black and white. Here is one taken in front of the Motion shop.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1169942&a=8610132&p=38458763

[rustyhale]

COPO,

Thanks, I am working on the car now trying to get it running, and working on the numbers to decipher this car, we are taking lots of pictures for documentation, I going to drive this car, this will not be a show car, but I am very proud to have it, and I am planning to attend the Supercar reunion this year. I am not a big time collector/restorer, just a normal guy with some luck, my grandfather was a real hot rodder back in the 60's, he was big on Mopar, we have not figured out why he purchased this car yet.
Rusty

[rustyhale]

Joe C.

Thanks for the pic and info, I am starting to decode the car and I will be sending Joel the authenticity fee soon.

Rusty

[Kurt S]

Several thoughts:
I'm interested in seeing some of the documentation and the # from the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif
Why pay Joel when you have documentation already?
Original paint? I'd keep it that way!
Get it running, then see if the motor needs rebuilt. May need new valve springs, but the rest may be fine.

Kurt S

[rustyhale]

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY,

Thanks, I will be attending the reunion this year but I do not know if the car will be ready, I am having to work on it at night and when I have time, the guy that is looking at the engine,drivetrain told me today that the transmission is a M-22. Did all the Motion cars have the L-72 or did some have the L-88 or ZL-1, I read somewhere in the last two days on a website that Joel did install a ZL-1 in a 69 Camaro.

[rustyhale]

Kurt S,

Thanks, all the docs are there, but don't you have to get the car verified throught Joel.

[SuperCars]

Rusty, what you have as far as documents sounds better than you can get from Joel.

[rustyhale]

Supercars,

I have the original window sticker,invoice,bill of sale,title, and all the Motion emblems and decals are in place. Where do you find the build sheet on these cars?

[COPO]

It is very likely a Norwood built camaro and your chances of finding the body broadcast sheet are extremely remote. The Van Nuys built cars are normally on the gas tank like the corvettes. You can try looking in the seat springs both front and rear, behind the door panels and under the carpet for starters. Could you post the VIN and the #'s from the cowl tag? What was the original price of the car?

In my opinion you will be wasting your money getting something from Joel. You have excellent documentation, far better than Joel can give you. Save your $'s for your car.


[Edited by COPO (01-22-2001 at 06:32 PM).]

[rustyhale]

COPO,

The sticker price was right at $9100, and it has a front air dam, no side trim on the quarter panels, what trim package would this denote, since X66 had the chrome trim,blacked out rockers and blacked out around the tailights.

[bkhpah]

What kind of front air dam? $9100.00, man thats large. Olympic gold is a very cool color. One of the most interesting of the Yenko colors anyway. You could have bought two Yenko's for that price...BKH

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rusty;
Good to hear that you are going to drive the car, and bring it to the reunion. Can't wait to see the photos, O-Gold with black houndstooth sounds like an interesting combination.
Marlin

[JoeC]

rustyhale- Does it have the Motion/Hone overdrive unit on the car or listed on the options sheet?

[rustyhale]

Joe C.,

I saw the option you are talking about on Otis Chandlers Motion Chevelle, and no my car does not have that option, how does that thing work anyway. I found out some interesting info today, a guy e-mailed me today and gave me his phone number and I called him, he said he worked at Motion performance through 1971, he said Joel's dyno never worked, he charged people for dyno time they did not get, and on some the export Corvettes that he sent to the Middle East he took the 427 out and put in a Camaro that would stay in the states,and put the 396 in the Corvette, hop it up,and send it overseas as a Phase III 427 car.

Rusty

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rustyhale;
After talking with some friends, is it possible that your BM-Camaro has a ZL1 engine in it? This might explain the high price. Maybe it is just painted orange to look like a iron block?
M

[Fhakya]

I'd love to see some pics of your 'new' ride
can you post a couple here?

[whitetop]

After going back through this thread I have a feeling this guy was just jerking our chains. The story just seems bogus after you go back and really read between the lines. What do you all think??
whitetop

[COPO]

Well, it was a good story but you're probably correct.

[GMH454]

Whitetop I had been wondering the same thing.
In recent months we have had ZL-1 blocks in barns, friends who have just bought a Yenko and the never before seen Motion. Its a shame he slandered Joel that way.
Who knows what will turn up next.
Terry

[James Berry]

Cool car, PLEASE post some pictures of the car or scans of the paperwork.

[TwoBryans]

rusty,
i have envisioned your car in my dreams since i was a little boy. keep it safe and when and if the car ever becomes available let me know. or if anyone else runs across a gold 69 BM with the RS package please contact me. thanks.

[whitetop]

Rusty
Are you not sure your Grandfather did not just gave you a 1/18 scale Ertl Diecast and the paperwork you are refering to is the store receipt?? Your description sounds just like the Ertl gold car!!

whitetop

[Edited by whitetop (04-05-2001 at 06:59 PM).]

[GMH454]

The opinions expressed by Whitetop are not just his own. Mr Moderator is it time to close this ??

For whatever it is worth, I have been told from very reliable sources that this car is in fact real. The owner must be choosing to not share info at this time for whatever reason. I have been told that the motor is being reworked at this time by a rather prominent shop. Just because he hasn't replied, don't get your underwear all bunched up. He probably doesn't follow this site as closely as some. I too hope in the near future he will post some doc. and photos.

[Denis]

if the car is real and rusty hasn't visited the site in a while, might be advisable to bury the thread anyways as the latest posts haven't been overly gracious.

just my 2 cents worth.

[Fhakya]

It occurs to me that this thread would bury itself on its own volition if 'we' would simply stop posting these superfulous additions....hmmm.