69 daytona yellow b/m camaro

[TwoBryans]

<A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593856247&r=0&t=0

here" TARGET=_blank>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593856247&r=0&t=0

here</A> is one that this guy says is documented by joel rosen. i have no doubt that the car is worth something if it's a real and documented car, but a starting bid of $36k and thats below the reserve. what in the world might the reserve be. does anyone think that if i give him $50k maybe he'll throw in a milk crate so i can sit in it and daydream of 69?

[MikeA]

I understand that B/M Camaros are worth a considerable amount of money when restored but can this car be worth $36k (starting bid)?

I can not even imagine how much it would cost to restore!

[SS427]

Considering it is missing all the original drivetrain, it would take a minimum of $40-50,000 to do a concourse restoration. That is assuming that all the other parts for the car are there and in restorable shape. Research alone can run 100 plus hours to do this car. Locating parts including phone calls can easily run another 100 hours. Big Bucks!

[SuperCars]

I am not positive because this is from memory, but I think this car was for sale many months ago as a "possible" motion car. I called and asked what documents he had. He said he only had a NICB report showing it from Baldwin Chev. He added that he called NICB direct and NICB sent it to him as a private citizen. Anything is possible but I'd never heard of NICB sending a report to a private citizen. Only legal officials such as Police, FBI officers, etc, could get them. At that time he did not have any documents from Joel. The photo looks like the same photo in the prior ad. The car could have been purchased for less than $10K then. Again this is just from memory and not 100% positive, but it appears to be the same car. It would be important to verify any documents.

[Dan 68 Chevy II]

Talked to the owner when it was for sale in a local auto trader months ago,sounded very sincere and was contemplating getting it verified by Joel Rosen.Obviously he verified the car.

[bowtie3168]

Kevin is right, not all Camaros coming from Baldwin Chevrolet were made into Motion Supercars. I am sure that Baldwin Chevrolet probably sold a 10 to 1 (or many more) Motion Supercar to stock production Camaro ratio. Remember conversions by Joel Rosen did NOT come cheap! Selling cars like the Motion cars was a real attraction for Baldwin Chevrolet. Get the people in to look at the top of the line car and switch them into another car. Think about how many young kids came in and wanted a "Phase III" and could not afford it or the insurance. Just think of a salesman saying 'well we cannot get you financed for a "Phase III" but we can get you into a SS350, and you can convert it later after you finish your payments.' Living local to the area I have heard of many Motion conversions done after the car was already "on the road".

Andrew

[Jeff H]

Speaking of Baldwin Motion Camaros, I came across this car while searching around today. I'll paste in the link, but I know it won't work as a shortcut so you'll need to cut and paste it yourself.
http://www.wwwheels.com/cfapps/ascar.cfm?ID=1549315

[TwoBryans]

jeff h
that's a cool piece of history. is that just a baldwin car or a b/m car? either way it's still a cool car to have if it's authentic.

[GMH454]

As I don't think any two motion cars were the same, (Joel was always changing his mind on the stripes) and the option list of transplant parts was not always the same I don't think such a car could ever be effectivley restored without substantial input from photos, Joels memory ?,etc, even if you could find an invoice.
Also didn't the axle ratios vary enormously

[Kurt S]

It is the same car and the same seller.
Obviously the value is increasing rapidly. http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif
In the original ad, he said it had an Olds axle. Now, he doesn't know if the 12 bolt is original. Hmmmm.

[Dan 68 Chevy II]

Andrew,
I see were speculateing on what Baldwin Chevrolet salesmen said to prospector buyers.I speculate that there was Baldwin Auto Company which was the performance side of Baldwin Chevrolet for doing operations with Joel Rosen of Motion Performance and Baldwin Chevrolet for your everday average Joe,probably maybe 2 separate corporations for say liability purposes.What we need is maybe say a saleman or finance guy from Baldwin Chevrolet or better yet Joel Rosen himself to visit us so we don"t need to speculate.I guess for now we can all speculate,if it fills good speculate.

[bowtie3168]

Dan,
I can speculate on this because I have worked at 6 different dealerships one of them a Chevrolet store that has been in buisness for 55 years.I studied Automotive Marketing in college (Northwood University,a dealership management school). I live 1 hour from where Baldwin Chevrolet was. A gentleman that I work with bought a car there and lives five minutes from the location. Many racers that I know from the track purchased cars from Motion and know Joel Rosen. Motion Performance was a seperate buisness from Baldwin Chevrolet and Motion continued to produce cars long after Baldwin Chevy went our of buisness. Dan that is how a dealership works. Advertise the coolest hippest car, get the people in, and put them into what you can. Baldwin Chevrolet sold many more 350 4speed Camaros and Novas than they did Phase III Supercars.

Andrew

[Edited by bowtie3168 (08-01-2001 at 01:32 PM).]

[Dan 68 Chevy II]

Did you say you live 1 hour from Baldwin Chevrolet ? So when Baldwin Chevrolet was open in the 1967 to say 1972 you being 1 hour from the place must of been in there quite often,maybe to possibly buy a Phase III car or maybe a average Joe car if you coudn't afforded a Phase III car.I also have talked to Joel Rosen but that doesn't make me a expert on imformation that he only knows.Just for the recorded I think Joel Rosen is a not as bad as some people make him out to be.He was very creative and knows marketing when it comes to his cars.I wonder if he has a degree in marketing? I'm know expert on this Motion stuff ,just expressing my opinion,Joel Rosen the only expert when it comes to MOTION.

[Steve Shauger]

DAN
I live on Long Island and have owned two cars sold at Baldwin Cheverolet (Baldwin Automotive Co. Inc.) Although they were sold there Motion Performance had nothing to do with the cars. One was a 67 rs/ss L78 with 4:56 gears from the factory, the other was a 72 Z28. Being sold at Baldwin Chevy does not in any way connect them to Motion Performance. BTW, Andrew offers alot to this forum in terms of knowlege and insight. I have learned alot by just listening try it....

[bkhpah]

Andrews ideas about Baldwin and Motion sound reasonable to me. I am sure Yenko sold more mainstream muscle and Corvettes than SC cars in Canonsburg. A Yenko/SC car was not that big of a deal to most Canonsburg folks. What is wrong with Andrew stating the way he feels, without an attack on his statements. I sense no hostility in his view. I, like most people on this board like to read and learn and chip in some ideas. They are not always correct, but thats OK. I have watched other sites and the way people conduct themselves towards people they don't even know. I end up not getting involved after awhile. If I am way off base on this let me know...BKH

[Dan 68 Chevy II]

Everybody is entitled to their opinons from imformation they gathered whether it be conversation with someone about this subject or actual documents from back then and also of coarse verified documents from Joel Rosen.I have aquired recently many original magazines and original Motion Brochures from 67 to 72 and put more weight on this and talking to Joel Rosen then all the conversation about this subject on this BB site.Some of this imfo was sent by one of your well known menbers to my home address. This all started because people don"t beleive this guy has doc's from Joel Rosen,did anybody besides Kevin talk to this guy when it was originally listed 6 months ago in a local trader magazine,I did and had 3 conversations with this guy.I listen to him and made my own opinon about the way he presented himself.I know at the time he didn't want to verify the car with Joel Rosen because I beleive he told me it was 1500.00 to verify it.My first conversaton with him ,he told me that the car was possibly sold and a collector from the West coast was flying in to look at the car.Second conversation was car was still available guy never showed,owner states if he had the verification from Joel this potential buyer and other numerouse buyer calls it would have been sold by now.I understand him being hesitant about spending $1500.00 ,thats a lot of money for most of us.The guy is a every day Joe like you and I and was lucky enough to stumble upon a poosible Baldwin Motion ,well I'm happy for him. Did any of you guys contact him to ask him if he actually took the last step and had it verified by Joel Rosen? By the way he did tell me the story about the NICB and I'll add this that it was if I remenber correctly done 3 years ago.I remenbered something to the effect that the goverment passed a privacy law recently, something to do with stalkers and just maybe at that time NICB was accessible by the average citizen or maybe he just talked to someone that likes helping someone with giveing about this harmless imfomation about where his car was originally shipped to, called the MSO,Manufactures State Of Origin.I far as if the car is worth that much with Joel's verification ,it's what the market will bear.I will tell you this that if it is ,you don't see many Baldwin Motion cars out there.I sure Kevin Knows the value of these he just bought a 71 Baldwin Motion Camaro.By the way I still have the original ad and phone # of the gentlemen selling the car.He turned me on to a guy Wayne Mancuso in Ct. that has a 69 Baldwin Motion Corvette,talked to him many times.Sorry Andrew if you took this personally and anybody else that might have taken this personally. Happy Trails Dan Palchanes

[Steve Shauger]

Dan... thanks for the clarification, for all of us. I was able to find someone at our local NICB(Westbury, NY) office, who provided me with a documents titled " NICB ONLINE SHIPPING/ASSEMBLY RECORD" for several cars. One was a COPO sold at Byrne Brothers, a pace car sold at Dale Chevy in Dallas, and a 67 L78 sold to Baldwin Auto Company Inc. It provided the following info:

Dealer Name: Baldwin Auto Company Inc.
Add: Merrick & Central Ave
Date shipped 7/19/67
Dealer code 27019

Unfortunately my contact their has left and I have been unable to obtain additional information.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

PACEME;
Do you have a new email address?? I wanted to ask a you about the Byrne Bros. COPO.
Thx,
M

[bowtie3168]

Dan,
I do not understand why you have interpreted my reply to the post as a personal attack. I did not attack anyone. I never have and I never will. I just read someone's post and gave my opinion on it. Isn't that the idea of a message board? I want to "clear the air", I have never said anything bad about the owner of the car, I have never said anything bad about Dan, and I have never said anything bad about Joel Rosen. I find it insulting that Dan has a problem with the fact that I stated my opinion based on information that was posted and he has a problem with that. Should we not discuss our ideas here?

Andrew

[sixtiesmuscle]

Makes sense to me Andrew.

[Charley Lillard]

The 68 Motion car that Jeff H was referring to is now listed in Old Car Trader for 32,400 or offers. It lists it as a "Fabulous Professional Reproduction, rare find from a private collection."

[JoeC]

That car is painted and decaled like the National Record Holder 1967 Motion Baldwin Cars Magazine drag car. The car for sale does not appear to have any Motion parts on it and they used a 68 Camaro instead of a 67 and used the wrong wheels. The real car had Cragers. I have a 1967 Cars Magazine Christmas card that has a picture of Joel driving the 67 Motion Drag car on a record setting run at NY National Speedway. According to the old magazine articles this car was built with help from Zora and Piggins.

[69motion]

the 68 car if itis the same one is in fla. i just sold a nos stinger hood to the owner it had a flat hood on it.

[Dan 68 Chevy II]

Yes the car is in Florida,Talked to the owner Jerry many tmes.

[bowtie3168]

Hey just some trivia: "National Speedway" just had its final demolition completed not too long ago, bummer. There is a reprint of an article on Motion in a 1997 "Super Chevy" publication titled "Camaros" it has photos of many of the Motion "team cars" check it out.

Andrew

[PxTx]

69Motion. I wanted to verify something about Ed C.'s Harrel hood. I recently bought one and to my surprize it does not have cowl ventilation. The underhood bracing looks great, but I always thought these hoods were for more than a little carb clearance? Did the NOS stinger you had have cowl induction?

Paul Tholey