Can't keep Secret much longer... [Archive]

Jeff H

12-06-2001, 10:25 PM

D@m, That's sweet! We knew you were up to something, but since you've had everything else we couldn't figure out what. I guess all that's left to have is a 67-69 Camaro 6 cyl 3 on the tree, bench seat coupe with no options. LOL! So give us details on the Pace Car. Is it a 396 or a 427 disguised as a 396? What did Chevrolet do to that car?

Charley Lillard

12-06-2001, 10:26 PM

You have no idea how hard it was to keep it secret. Had to suprise a couple before I told you Folks.

Camaroinaz

12-06-2001, 11:14 PM

Well, I guess we know what the feature car for January will be!!!!!!

Charley Lillard

12-06-2001, 11:16 PM

Not a Supercar.

Denis

12-06-2001, 11:25 PM

Charley, is the car unrestored?

Charley Lillard

12-07-2001, 12:28 AM

Not a restored car ..Has had some detailing done to it over the years. Car has 16000 miles on it . About 10000 of those miles were put on it by USAC , as they used it at various races during the 67 Season. At the end of the Season they returned it to Chevrolet. Chevrolet then sold it to Dan Young Chevrolet in Indy. It has mainly been used for Parades etc. since. In about 1990 Dan Young loaned it to the Indy Museum and it stayed there for about 10 years. Dan Young is now Retired . Cool paperwork with it. I have the orig. Indiana title in Chevrolet's name. Car has a 325 hp 396 as per engineering order on the engine. Apparently the car was orig. shipped with L78, 4 speed but then returned and had 325 hp , auto built for it. I have the factory blueprinting sheets on the engine. Orig. rotting redline tires are still on it. Has the passenger sunvisor removed and a chrome grab handle instead and also 2 more grab handles in the back seat. Orig. pass sunvisor is in the trunk. Orig. spare in the trunk..Ahhhhhhhhhh

whitetop

12-07-2001, 12:31 AM

There was a '67 396 pace car featured in Super Chevy magazine in the late'70's that was drag raced only. However the original owner/racer took out the interior, engine and the rest of the driveline so they would not be damaged. Would not even drill holes anywhere in the car because he knew what he had and someday said he may put the car back to original. Car had aluminum slots in the back with Cragar 15x3.5's on the front. Cal Custom valve covers. Was partially sponsored by a upholstery shop I believe and was from Washington state , but not sure. Car was white with blue and maroon graphics. Does anyone know what happened to this car?
Dave

[Edited by whitetop (12-06-2001 at 07:28 PM).]

[Edited by whitetop (12-06-2001 at 07:31 PM).]

Stefano

12-07-2001, 01:15 AM

Charley,

Cool car. Now about the original blueprinting sheets, I've never seen any, but would sure like to. Have you ever had these docs on other GM blueprinted motor cars?

bkhpah

12-07-2001, 01:25 AM

Didn't it have Dan Young on the sides?...BKH

Stefano

12-07-2001, 01:34 AM

Charley,

Were you able to purchase the Pace Car for close to 1967 MSRP/ sticker price? http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

Belair62

12-07-2001, 01:42 AM

Well the cat is finally out of the bag ! Nice car http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif

Charley Lillard

12-07-2001, 01:49 AM

BKHPAH...It had Dan Young on it until it went back to Indy in about 1990. The track wanted it to look just the way it did the day it Paced the race so Dan Young removed the Lettering. It has been minus lettering since about 1990..Yes Stefano...MSRP..LOL

COPO PETE

12-07-2001, 03:17 AM

Pretty car Charlie! I always have a soft spot for pace cars. Wanna run for pinks?????? ;)
Peter

[Edited by COPO PETE (12-06-2001 at 10:17 PM).]

Charley Lillard

12-07-2001, 03:23 AM

Nope...Can I run my Red car ?

69motion

12-07-2001, 02:04 PM

nice car it pays to keep your mouth shut till you get the car does it have the grab handle on th pass side jeff

Charley Lillard

12-07-2001, 02:28 PM

69 Motion..I wasn't worried about someone else buying it, I just wanted to suprise a couple People. Yes it has the pass side grab handle and two more in the back.

JoeC

12-07-2001, 03:26 PM

Congratulations on the nice purchase Charlie. Did Chevy put in a stock 396/325 or does it have modifications? Holley or Qjet? 1967 was before Chevy ever put an auto behind a solid lifter big block so maybe GM didn't want to chance a blown trans in front of 400,000 spectators? That may have not been funny to them. There are some original B&W photos of the pace car at the 67 Indy 500 on ebay. I don't know if it is your car or if they used another for photos.

Mr70

12-07-2001, 04:02 PM

I have a collection of 16mm Movies from Chevrolet from 1965-1975.
One of them is 30 minutes long and is called "1967 Jr. Miss".
It is about the Sponsoring Chevrolet did for this event.It has Many scenes of Pretty girls in the parades riding around in Chevrolet cars.The new 1967 Camaro is prominently featured and it is a row of 1967 Camaro Pace cars.I will have to go back and look,but I thought I saw the name Dan Young on one of the doors.This all takes place in Indiana.
Girls waiving while the narator talks.
Pretty sappy stuff,but great shots of the Chevrolet Cars!
Yes I know they made more then one 1967 camaro Pace car.

68TopStock

12-08-2001, 05:37 AM

Absolutely one of the greatest 1967 cars of all time. Maybe THE most well known 1967 Camaro. I have the video of Dan Young being interviewed and a lot of shots of the car, made in the late 80's. I think it is called CAMARO and the Pacecar Story.

Congratulations Charlie, its fun to be excited about those first year cars.

Charley Lillard

12-08-2001, 03:52 PM

Here is the orig. spare tire. Has never been mounted. Odd think is that the outside of the Rally wheel is the same color of gray as the back side, not Argent Silver.http://members.aol.com/clill8567/tire/

Charley Lillard

12-08-2001, 03:59 PM

Here is a pic of label still on spare. Appears to be a shipping label. Fstone T&Rco, Racing Div, 3802 16th st. Speedway city Ind. From Firestone, Akron Ohio. http://members.aol.com/clill8567/tirea/

68TopStock

12-08-2001, 08:43 PM

I'll bet it still has '67 air in it. Don't go mixing anything now. http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif BTW Charlie, is there any mention of a sb when it was prepped for the race?

CamarosRus

12-08-2001, 09:11 PM

On a side note.....my 70 Z-28 wheels(back side) and bumper jack parts are painted the same (appearing) gray as the spare tire/wheel in above picture.....can anybody here provide a CODE for that color or do all the different restoration people just come up with there own close....Chuck

Charley Lillard

12-08-2001, 09:28 PM

No mention of a small block. Was supposed first built with a L78, 4 speed and then switched to a 325 hp, auto. Has a SS350 Trim tag code, and a 325 hp tach. In the glove box was a Protecto plate no longer attached to a Warranty book that has the L78, 4 speed Codes. They didn't even know they had a Protecto plate until after I owned it and they looked through the glove box

68TopStock

12-08-2001, 11:03 PM

Charlie,

Do you have a copy of Crispino and Hoopers' Chevrolet Indy Pace Car Book, 1948-1990? Printed in 1992. Your car has its own chapter, #8. There is a mention of a special 360hp/350 motor, with a special A3-7N163613 service block installed for the race. Maybe they published the story incorrectly, and it should have been 325hp/396 motor. But then again, you confirmed the 4P on the cowl tag. Is there more sleuthing needed? They also published your cowl tag and VIN data. http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif

Charley Lillard

12-09-2001, 12:55 AM

Yes I have that book. They are mistaken about the smallblock. What they were supposed to say was that the Engineering work order called for a 325 hp 396 The book says the vin is 194500, it is really 194600. There is a work order # stamped on the block that says 98168 A. I have a Letter from Vince Piggins where he says that is the engineering build order # and he sent the sheets that are mentioned on page 23 of Hoopers book. The book points out that the rear plate # is 142. Al Young says that the 142 plate is something the track gave him later when he needed a rear plate and that it wasn't there from the start.

[Edited by Charley Lillard (12-08-2001 at 07:55 PM).]

Charley Lillard

12-12-2001, 05:34 AM

Here is another Cool part of the spare tire. It is stamped Xray on the back side. Did Firestone Racing Division Xray these tires ? Has anyone ever seen something like this ?http://members.aol.com/clill8567/xray/

Warren Malkin

12-15-2001, 02:36 PM

Hey Charley, is that the optional wrinkle wall tire used in drag racing, that GM offered? Anyway, can't say I have ever seen "xray" stamped on any tire. It doesnt surprise me though! I would think a car that is going to pace an event with a large viewing audience, couldn't risk being taken off the track on the hook, or crashing into a wall due to a tire failure.
A local friend of mine who owns a 67 B/B conv., still has a spare like yours only it is a white wall, and has Firestone in raised letters on his wheel weight. Also on that car, with the hood up and looking down at the lower valance panel it says in black crayon, SS 396. This Camaro is also a one owner, original paint car.
Charley, I've got an ad proof of the 67 pace car. In the lower right hand corner it tells where this ad is going to be placed. It says Indianapolis 500 Race Program...May 30, and, Indianapolis 500 Festival Program...May 30. Below that it says "Prepared by" Campbell-Ewald Co. It also has their logo on it. I've had it about 20 years now. Would it be anything you would be interested in??? Lets make a deal!!

Chevy454

12-15-2001, 03:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="">quote:</font><HR>Also on that car, with the hood up and looking down at the lower valance panel it says in black crayon, SS 396.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a semi-unrelated note, but on Dad's Camaro it had "427" written on
each front fender extension, upside down.

Warren:

Welcome to the board! Based on what I have read just in the past day, it seems you have been at this game a long time, and I hope you find this board accomodating. Plus, any friend of Lillard's is, well....I feel sorry for you! http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/wink.gif

Warren Malkin

12-16-2001, 08:19 PM

Hello Chevy454! My 69 Z has GM written in yellow crayon, in both front fender extensions, also upside down. The car also has 5 27 69 next to the orange stripe on the drivers front frame rail. Just in front of the upper and lower control arms, looking through the wheel well.

Stefano

12-16-2001, 09:30 PM

Warren,
Was the 'GM' written on the inside of your fender extentions used to designate the Z\28 emblems ,to be placed on the fenders, such as '427' was used by line workers to designate that no emblems be placed on the fenders?

Charley Lillard

12-16-2001, 10:43 PM

Found this stamped on rear end... 98168-0 is the engineering work order #. Then it appears they started with 3.07:-1 but stamped it out and then went with 3.31:1. http://members.aol.com/clill8567/rear/

Warren Malkin

12-17-2001, 07:28 PM

Stefano, I am really not that familiar with the markings inside of the extensions, and what they mean. I have an extension that came off of an SS, without RS, and has a 350 emblem on the fender. It has 3M in white crayon on it upside down. Another extension from a different car, has OM on it. It came off a non RS small block, with pin striping. If I get ambitious enough over the winter, I will clean the ones on my COPO, and see what markings are on them. Maybe some other guys can shed some light on this!

Kurt S

12-17-2001, 09:32 PM

Going thru broadcast sheets, none of these codes written on the fender extensions match the broadcast sheet codes for fender piercing or emblems. No help there.....

Kurt S

SuperCars

12-17-2001, 10:00 PM

Hey Charley, Can I finally congratulate you publicly here now. When you told me the week or so prior to revealing it here, you made me promise to keep it a secret. Anyway congratulations, and it is a really cool car. Even cooler to say you have a re-stamped rear and it's the real deal.

Charley Lillard

12-17-2001, 10:10 PM

Shhh, don't be tellin anybody I told you. It's even Cooler to say it's a Re-Re Stamped rear.

Warren Malkin

12-18-2001, 12:12 AM

Charley, can you loan me your stamping tool?? I have some dead weight driveline parts that need enhancing!!!!

Joe

01-05-2002, 10:45 PM

I don't think they get any cleaner then that ? Awesome car Charley

69motion

01-21-2002, 12:54 PM

stefano there was a car in conn a 1969 chevelle i saw that had a crayon marking by the grill in back of the bumper it said 427 it was hard to see with the bumper on it was a doc orange canadian copo chevelle i think the old owner might have pics jeff

mahoy78spyder

01-26-2002, 06:13 AM

Charlie - congrats on your car. Being originally from Indy (Speedway, IN for part of the time actually) I have been a big fan of the Indy 500 and have had a special interest in the Pace Cars over the years - even owning a couple replicas myself, one of which I bought from Dan Young too. (sorry, can't afford the originals - have to buy the replicas) I've seen your car in person many times over the years and the first thing that came to mind was, "where's the Dan Young lettering I remember?" But I see that that issue has been addressed already. Nice to see that the car went into the right hands of someone who'll take care of it the way it needs to be. Congrats Charlie.

Ken