Getting closer on verifying 70 L78 M40 Camaro

[Charley Lillard]

Two of our Camaro Club members were shown the orig. build sheet and confirm that the car in question is indeed a L78 M40 car. They also mentioned it is a Customer Order car, Mulsanne Blue. I haven't seen it yet but I am now willing to bet money that the car is real. Any Naysayers willing to bet large sums of money ? Chuck ? Ahhh, here we go again with another controversy...Oh Boy..

[COPO]

It would certainly be a find if the car is in fact legit as it could be one of one. Curious to know the engine code and whether the VIN is stamped on the turbo 400. I am assuming your friends believe it is customer ordered because of a notation on the buildsheet. Many cars that have the "XXX Customer Order" on the bottom of the buildsheet were not in fact customer ordered cars. Chuck you putting up some money??

[Edited by COPO (12-29-2001 at 08:23 AM).]

[JoeC]

This guy must hide better then Bin Laden. His L78 was discussed over one year ago in a post on team Camaro. His friend had posted a picture and some sort of option sheet on the car but there were still many questions on it. here is the old Team Camaro link but the link to the L78 no longer works.

http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum1/HTML/003016.html

[Mr70]

I am not disclaiming this car or Charley in any way.I am sure this is genuine.
But I would like someone to view more then his buildsheet,not base a decision on the buildsheet only.This car must be looked at by someone who knows what to look for.
I would take Charleys word for it if he looked at this actual Camaro.
You guys know ANYTHING can be made today.Including a buildsheet or restamp components.
Yes he has had the car for some 20+ years,but this is a very unusual car.It has to prove that the records are wrong.
In this case,on this car,the codes and dates and stampings must be actually viewed.Not just take a piece of papers word for it,or else the controversy continues. By the way is this the same Camaro?
Charley said it is Mulsanne Blue,yet the Team Camaro car is White?

[Edited by mr70 (12-29-2001 at 09:49 AM).]

[COPO]

OK, Charley, we all want you to personally inspect this car on your lift as well as the documentation. After that, if you say it is legit, I'm a believer. I'm particularly interested because I've owned a couple of '70 L-78 Camaros and still have one. With only 600 built you don't see them often.

[Charley Lillard]

It's the same car. It was painted white years ago. Apparently Jack even used this car as a tow vehicle years ago. I think there is a pic of it on the Camaro Generations web site. Jack wouldn't fake a build sheet and I doubt if the Kid he bought the car from 20 years ago would either. Jack also isn't going to jump through a bunch of hoops to prove it to anyone either. I figure if I can get a Naysayer to bet enough money I could convince Jack to show it to them. Heck, maybe we could win enough money to restore the apparently One of One car. He is not going to let a copy of the build sheet out in circulation. He is very protective of his cars. He does not hide the car, He has had it at numerous shows. I have never paid too much attention to it as I was not aware of the controversy. I'm sure I'll get to see it again.

[Charley Lillard]

I'm trying to win money, don't trust my opinion. X77D80 on the above mentioned Team Camaro thread is one of the Club Members that just looked at the sheet. You can reach him at [email protected]. If the opportunity ever arises I will be happy to go over the car. Jack....I'm doing this with the best intentions, don't get Pissed....

[Stefano]

Charley,
Just as an "aside" to the ; "He would never do something like that."
A couple of years ago I was at one of our local engine rebuilding establishments when a local law enforcement officer(full uniform), walked in and asked to borrow the Builders "B" and "E" die stamps.
I couldn't resist asking "putting together a COPO ?"
I was corrected and told by the propietor that he would never do any thing like that.
I still wonder where he found the BE rear for his COPO clone?
I am not doubting you or the car in question. No, I will not put up any money. It's just when I hear those words it reminds me of what is said about most criminals http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif.

[CamarosRus]

I have been one of the most vocal individuals on this L-78/M-38(T-400)subject....because I am (too) outspoken and NHRA via Brian (bkh) had contacted me and asked me what I knew (Zero) on the subject and if I would research it.....Anyway I certainly dont want to be made the "bad" guy on this situation so not sure what position to assume currently. Given that absolutely no one else in all my previous postings on several web sites could ever produce any evidence or even remember such an optioned Camaro.....I am not inclined to just believe a "build sheet" at face value.....There is probably as much about 70 Camaro judging that I dont know as what I do......but I would certainly be interested in having the subject car certified as "real" by several impartial judges.....I would think that the T-400 trans might have a date of production on it to match the car build, and might even have the VIN.....but given what Charley reports about the owner it doesnt seem likely that he wants (or needs) to prove anything to anybody.....On the money subject, as a sign of my sincerity in getting to the bottom of the truth, I would be willing to "contribute" say $100 to a research fund to help influence the owners co-operation....if this car was converted from 4 speed to T-400 surely there must be SOMEWAY of seeing a trail of conversion work....anyway in closing I suspect this deal will fade off into the sunset once again for another year or so....respectfully Chuck Sharin

[Fhakya]

'70 L-78's are kind of my 'Holy Grail' of Camaro's (since GM didn't have the cajones to put the LS-6 in them..). This is a great topic! Here's a link to the car in question:
http://www.camarogenerations.com/memberfiles/jackwhite.html

I thought I'd post it since the webmaster over there has his "/" and "\"'s confused on many pages.
-Mark Holman

[Jeff H]

I would think that if the NHRA is looking for proof of such a combination, wouldn't the owner be willing to help verify it was built by the factory? As for Chevrolet records on specific options and cars, their record speaks for itself so you can't believe any numbers they claim.

[Steve Shauger]

It seems as though the owner has nothing to hide or gain for that matter. What gain would he get from "faking a buildsheet" and make it an automatic. This is not an LS6 convertible, nor is it that factory correct, color and interior change. Taking into account several people have looked at it, and the present owner has had it 20 plus years IMHO, it is legit. Please send the$100 now!

[X77D80]

Mark Holman, thanks for posting the new link to Jack's car. I was going to do it myself but figured everyone has already seen it. I have so many pictures on the Camaro Generations (http://www.camarogenerations.com/) website now that I had to reorganize it which is why the links in the old post no longer work. If my \ and /'s are confused please let me which pages you are referring too. They all seem to work for me but I will admit that I am a, "car guy" first and a, "webmaster" second so anything is possible. As for the L78/M40 (not M38 Chuck) Jack was put off early on by how closed minded certain people have been regarding the existence of such a car. He does understand why people don't believe it because of the lack of information on the L78/M40. But, NOTHING is, "black & white" in the world of car manufacturing. It's been proven over and over that all sorts of things happen behind the scenes at GM. Jack is a true enthusiast of 1970 Camaros. It's his addiction. He does not build to sell these cars. He collects them for his own personal enjoyment and can't even bring himself to sell off even one of his less optioned cars (boring cars as he calls it). He is not elusive, he hits all the local cruises and club functions as much as anybody. He does not hide the L78 car, he drives it as much as the rest. In fact, as far as ride is concerned it's one of his favorites. Believe me, I've tried to get Jack to let me post his build sheet on the internet. But as he will admit, his ignorance of the internet scares him and at the advice of another 70 L78 owner/friend of his, he won't let me do it. He does however, carry a copy of his build sheet whenever he displays the L78 car. He keeps the original at home because of its condition (I'm sure you would too!). Early on, Mr. Sharin was looking at Jack to produce documentation from GM regarding the car. Jack doesnÃt have that nor is he even looking to obtain it. He has a build-sheet, he enjoys his car, end of story. From reading some of these new posts here, it seems that even if the build-sheet is produced you will question itÃs authenticity. The only person not concerned about this mystery is the owner of the car˜

- John -
69 Z/28 (http://www.camarogenerations.com/memberfiles/firestone.html)
69 Z11 (http://www.camarogenerations.com/memberfiles/firestonez11.html)
Camaro Generations (http://camarogenerations.com/) Member
WCA Member


[Edited by X77D80 (12-30-2001 at 01:57 PM).]

[COPO PETE]

I can appreciate what he is going through! When I first starting telling people about my COPO Nova, all the "experts", at that time, rolled their eyes and talked with a smile. Never say never!
Peter

[Edited by COPO PETE (12-30-2001 at 05:04 PM).]

[Keith Tedford]

In the 80s I went through the same thing as Jack and Pete. You only need a couple of vendors or "experts" to snub you in mid sentence to change your attitude. If people didn't want to hear what we had to say then, then they don't need to hear it now. Personally, I keep most of what I know to myself. Who needs the hassle.

[x44d80]

Welcome to the site John. John is very knowledgeable about GM cars and has been kind enough to answer alot of technical questions I had about Camaros. Brent

[Charley Lillard]

Yes Chuck... and as it fades into the Sunset it will fall off the Edge of the Flat Earth.

[Edited by Charley Lillard (12-30-2001 at 12:05 PM).]