Number of COPO 427 cars

[AutoInsane]

I am sure this is and old topic but forgive me.

How many COPO 427 cars were built?

Who do I send my check to for my Muscle Car education?

[TC]

I'm sure about any one here,knows way more than I do about this...but from what I understand,there were around a thousand,but Cheverolet didn't keep accurite records on them,so no one actually knows the actual numbers....if I have my facts stait?

"Who do I send my check to for my Muscle Car education?"...all check or money orders can be sent to,c/o Tom at the TC needs a COPO foundation http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif

[COPO]

I don't have my #'s in front of me, so I'm going by memory. I believe there were 373 COPO 427 engines produced for '69 Chevelles of which about 323 went into cars of which 99 were Yenko Chevelles. The remainder were service engines. There were 69 ZL-1 427 '69 Camaros (aluminum 427) built and 100+ engines built. There were 1000+ COPO iron block engines (L-72) built coded for '69 Camaros of which 198 were Yenko Camaros and another 300+ in non-Yenko Camaros sold by various dealers. The remaining engines were service engines for warranty replacements. No one really knows the exact number of cars produced.

[Kurt S]

This part about the extra engines being service engines has always bothered me. Has ANYONE run across a car that has a known service engine in it, but not coded CEXXXXXX but with the original factory style coding, eg T0112MN?

[COPO]

Kurt, Can not say I know of a situation precisely matching your question, however, I have seen a number of blocks w/the Tonawanda assembly date and code stampings, and no evidence of a VIN ever being stamped on the block. These could have been warranty or over the counter engines or perhaps some were giveaways to racers. What else would the extra engines be that were not installed in cars? They certainly would not have been destroyed.

[Keith Tedford]

The engines would be stamped at the engine plant with the TxxxxMP/MQ or CExxxxxxx. Any MP and MQ engines left over at the end of the production run just may have been scrapped. It would make a person cry at what went into railway cars when emptying out a plant for a major model change. An acquaintance here in the Oshawa plant remembered running SS wheels through a band saw for scrap. Engine blocks got holes hammered in the sides and the ends of the cranks torched off. Just obsolete stock that was cheaper to scrap than keep in stock.
You don't see this today because major model changes are so far and few between.

[TC]

Could some stuff have also been donated for educational purposes?

When I went to vocational auto shop in High school,the school had tons of parts and cars donated from GM,and Ford....Mopar must have been too cheap to give any thing away...hehe
The Coolest thing they had,was a Corvette Drive line,GM gave them.
It was a 63/64 frame,fuel injected small block,with knock off wheels.Everything looked to have a plastic coating on it,and had been cut so you could see the internal parts.A lot of things were chromed too,like the valve train/various engine parts,and some of the pieces inside the Transmission/Diff also.the wheels had about 1/3 of the spokes cut out of them,so the braking system could be seen better.

I also remember trying to get the teacher to sell me a Muncie 4spd,they were given,that he claimed was an M22(but I'm not so sure he was nearly as smart as he thought he was...could have been 20/21)...but he wouldn't go for that though.

They also had some new cars that were donated,that the wind shields had holes punched into them to remove the vin tag's.
I was only in the storage building a couple times,but they had a bunch of brand new motors...prolly not anything real HiPo,but ya never know...this was a small school,so it just makes me wonder what GM gave some of the big city schools....or colleges.

[68l30]

Our vocational school got a brand new 1972 Camaro after the strike shortened season.This car was a mint zero mile car that was built and rebuilt many times.The VIN was removed or retagged (I can't remember which)from GM and was clearly labled with a metal tag that it was donated for educational purposes.What a waste!


Steve

[Arctic Z Dan]

Man, TC and 68l30, you guys were lucky!! My school doesn't have any cool car classes like that at our vocational center. I'd be all over it if they did. Dan

[Keith Tedford]

At the beginning of a new production run there was a handful of pretty rough vehicles built while the tooling etc. was being tuned in. These vehicles didn't get VIN tags and were used for yard cars/trucks, loaned to schools or scrapped. Slim chance that any were hipo.

[Camaroinaz]

My high school in Mesa, Az. had a 1978 T/A with 400/4-spd combo. Was a test mule at the GM Desert proving grounds in Mesa. They also had 4-5 390 Ford Engines in crates. Rumor was that they came from a load of trucks that were damaged when a train derailed. Seems Ford took the tax break route and donated the engines.

[JoeC]

There are estimates claiming over 1300 hi po COPO engines were code stamped but I don't believe you can estimate hi po COPO cars based on Tonawanda engine production. Chevy production estimating process was geared to build 100,000 or more units not to build low volume COPO cars so the numbers for COPO engines VS cars may not be accurate. There were situations where engines were assembled and stamped with a code for a car that was never built. If you use engine production to estimate that particular cars production number you would be 100% off. Another example is the 1969 ZL1 Corvette where over 100 engines were built and code stamped and only 2 cars were sold to the public.
According to Chevy service documentation there were 700 hi po COPO cars "in process" on July 7, 1969 including ZL1's, Yenkos, 427 Camaros and 427 Chevelles. This could mean that there were roughly only 500 427 Camaros and 200 427 Chevelles ordered as of July 1969. July is late for 1969 Chevelle build date. The 1969 Camaro ran later but I don't believe many 427 Camaros have been found with Aug or later build dates.

*on engine codes*
I have seen 1969 engines with the code stamped on the deck with no vin number on them. Here is an interesting receipt from Nickey dated 1971 where someone purchased what is labeled a 427 "ZLX". Some dealers were selling engines called ZLX that I believe was a ZL1 spec. cast iron engine. It looks like the code is T079ID and part number was 3935494? I did find a code ID engine which is listed as a passenger 1968 L72.
http://www.geocities.com/gearhead_mex/NICKEY.jpg




[Edited by JoeC (01-14-2002 at 07:47 AM).]

[whitetop]

A high school autoshop near me received a brand new '70 Chevelle 350 2 dr. HDtp.. The school would never sell the car because it had no vin or title but the retiring autoshop teacher made a deal and got it in '90 . Always inside and no rust whatsoever. Most of the engine/suspension bolts were rounded from years of use. Paint on top of fenders was worn off also.
Dave

[Rat_Pack]

whitetop, almost the same thing here at a local high school. They have a 75 Nova Custom loaded with about every option including a 350 and a 4 spd. No vin, no trim tag, and no miles. It was involved in a derailment when it was new and was not worth sending back to GM. The local dealer removed the vin and trim tag and sent them back to GM when they received the car. I was told that the car could never be sold because of this.............RatPack...............

[COPO]

Joe,

Your thoughts seem to tie in with my earlier posts where I said 300+ non-Yenko iron block 427 COPO Camaros.

Also, Motion used to sell engines called "ZL-X" and I seem to remember they were 12:1 or higher L-72's and LS-6's with cast iron open chamber rec. port heads. There are a few articles on these in some of the old Hi-Perf. CARS Magazines from that era. The May '69 issue has an article on a 427 ZL-X w/12.8:1 compression and cast iron open chamber heads installed in a '69 BM Camaro.


[Edited by COPO (01-14-2002 at 04:21 PM).]