Gauges

[COPO PETE]

I have some old SW machanical gauges, but also some old electic SW gauges. Did Yenko, Motion or anyone use the eletic type. Also a side sweep Sun tack and the starz and striped " Big Daddy "10 grand tack. Were these used at all in some of the supercars or just aftermarket stuff.
Peter

[Edited by COPO PETE (01-29-2002 at 11:08 AM).]

[whitetop]

The size of the gauge determined in many cases whether it was electrical or mechanical. The 2" are mostly electrical and the 2 5/8 are mostly mechanical but not in all cases. From what I can tell Motion used mostly Sun 2 5/8 gauges but also Stewart Warner and in some of the Vega's VDO. The '74 Phase III Camaro that was featured in many of the mags had Autometer gauges in it which were introduced in June '73-Tachs came out in '70. The sun 2/58 oil gauge is mechanical and the water takes a special elctrical sender. SW came in mechanical and electric. PXTX and Ratpack know about the SW stuff. Any input from yu guys? For tachs Motion mostly used Sun Super but also cable drive units from Moroso, Jones-Motrola and Stahl & Associates. FYI all three of these cable drive tachs were made by Jones-Motrola in Joe C's stomping grounds but Jones would put in the face plate that matched the selling dealer i.e. Moroso, Stahl etc..
Not being a Yenko expert from what I can tell mostly used Stewart Warner. Not sure of Berger etc.

The RW&B Big Daddy tachs are extremly difficult to find especially with a good cup. These came out in '70. Don't know of any dealer putting these on their cars though. A NOS one sold on ebay last year for $525. I very rarely see these tachs on cars in the old mags. I think they are more a novelty today because of the Big Daddy name and the RW&B color scheme.

The type of gauge(as well as types of mods done to your car) back then depended alot of geographics. Sun stuff was extremely popular in the northeast and midwest. Stewart Warner was stronger out west. Running gauges on the steering column in chrome cups was also a northeast/midwest thing and not as popular out west. But this is another subject for another day...
Dave









[Edited by whitetop (01-29-2002 at 03:33 PM).]

[bkhpah]

From what we have learned, Harrell was a Sun tachometer man, but would use SW for the other gauges. Just his preference...BKH

[COPO PETE]

$525.00 http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/shocked.gif Man, I've got two of those. Not NOS however!!!!
Peter

[whitetop]

The used ones I have seen on ebay are going around $150-200 depending if they have a cup and not to badly faded.
Dave

[PxTx]

I've checked a 1977 Motion catalog I had handy to verify this, the Motion gauges offered in the catalog were all Sun ones. No others were listed. Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure, and Vacuum were mechanical. the Water temp, Amps and Volts were electric. Other 2" Suns were offered, but I think they were not the ones we were concerned with.

Hope that helps some.

Paul Tholey

[Rat_Pack]

Motion offered both SW and Sun gauges and he started moving away from SW by the mid 70's. The latest Motion catalog I have is a 1974 one and it shows both SW and Sun gauges available.Most of the time he used Sun gauges but it really came down to what the customer preferred.

The 69 Motion Camaro that Otis Chandler has does not have a tach but does have greenline Sun 2-5/8" gauges under the dash. However the 70 Motion Chevelle that he owns has blackface 2-5/8" SW gauges under the dash with a Stahl 9 grand cable drive tach on the steering column.

One thing though is that sometime in 69 or early 70 the greenline gauges were replaced with the blueline gauges. Dave do you know when? So a 70 and up car that had Sun gauges in them should have the blueline ones...........RatPack.....................

[PxTx]

I was not aware of the sun gauge faces being year specific. I have seen SST prior to 1968 with both blue and green faces. In 69 the blue 2 5/8" were most likely available.

My guess on the Otis car was that the Green gauges were chosen to compliment the green car. That is where the no tach problem came into play. I can only speculate this, but here goes:

I have not seen an integral SST with a green face. I would imagine that the original owner of the Otis Camaro wanted to have a tach that matched his gauges (being the car is so pretty why have a tach that clashed). When all that Joel had on the shelf at this point was blue SST- Joel most likely offered the hood mount tach as a reasonable alternative. Maybe not- but this car is definitely before Joel clearly figured out which tachs worked best with the "new" (at the time) CD ignition systems. Maybe Joel had a green SST with a transmitter, but the CD system generated too much EMI and the tach was bouncing all over.

I don't claim this to be accurate, just a reasonable speculation.

[whitetop]

Ratpack
I agree with Paul. There was no time frame to say whether the green or blue line is correct. Bluelines were phased in around late '68. The '69 Lemans Blue Nova 396 car I posted pics of last year has the green line in them. He bought the car in late '68 or very early '69. Said he was disapointed when the bluelines came out shortly after because they matched his car but he never purchased them. I would have to say most speed shops probably had green and blue lines on the shelf at the same time for a while.
Should a '70 on up Motion car have bluelines? Probably be more correct as most greenlines would have been depleted by then.
Dave

[Edited by whitetop (01-30-2002 at 09:13 AM).]

[Rat_Pack]

Dave & Paul, I am not saying that they are year specific, but when did Sun stop making the greenline gauges. Well I have talked to Tim Lopata and this is what he said:

The greenline tach was last produced in 1967 and then they came out with a blueline tach that was green backlit that used the monitor box. Then in early 68 they came out with the blueline transistorized tach. The greenline gauges were still available but once inventory was depleted only the new blueline gauges were available. By 1970 there should not have been any greenlines left.

As another side note, SW had a buy back program for obsolete gauges. They would buy them back every two years to update a speedshops inventory with the current stuff. Not sure if Sun did the same thing.


The greenlines compliment any 70 and earlier Camaro or Chevelle better as the factory gauges light up green at night. The 69 Camaro really looks great at night with the green lights...............RatPack..........

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

As do the '68-'70 Novas http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/laugh.gif
M

[Rat_Pack]

Marlin, sorry about that. You are right the Novas gauges do look good at night..........RatPack.................

[whitetop]

Ratpack
I had a NOS Sun green line 8000 rpm tach in the box with a stamped date of 4-68. I also have color ads in 1968 magazines that still show the greenline tach and 2 5/8 gauges. When Tim said they stopped making them in '67-were they just selling the inventory off through '68 or just never updated their ads?
The very earliest blueline gauge I have seen in print is a early January/February? issue of Pop Hot Rodding with a '57 Chevy. Nowing the press time of mags of 3-4 months the bluelines hit the public in early-mid '68??


For you SW buffs, Speedometer Service Co. in Pittsburgh has been a SW regional Warehouse/distributor/ dealer for 40+ years-and in the same location. Anyone ever try to see what they have on their old dusty shelves? Sorry no Sun stuff I already tried. No interest in SW.
Dave


[Edited by whitetop (01-30-2002 at 11:35 AM).]

[Rat_Pack]

Whitetop, that is right, they had a transition time so that is why you saw both ads overlap each other. Now the set of gauges that pxtx has for sale is the last style of the greenline tachometers made. I have learned a lot from Tim as he knows this stuff like no other person I have seen, especially the SW items. Too bad he has quit selling this stuff as he usually has the best items on the market and some of the hardest to find.

By the way, he was the one that helped me identify a set of custom face SW 2" oil and amp gauges as for a 68 Shelby Mustang. Never knew the differences and I sold that pair of gauges for $400+ on Ebay a few months ago. Got to thank him for that...................RatPack...............

[Stefano]

WOW, I needed those for my 1968 KR. Anymore available?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Rat/Stefano;
Can you post a pic of these Shelby type guages? I bought a set off EBAY several years ago, and couldn't understand why these Ford guys were chasing them as well. They emailed me after the auction to see if wanted to sell them since I had just sniped them. I still have them, new in the boxes, but now know that they were not for Yenko cars. Subsequently bought SW greenlines from Tom Billigen, and a spare NOS oil pressure replacement guage.
M

[whitetop]

The Sun 2 5/8 blueline gauges were also available through Ford at one time in the '70's. They came in a Ford box and had a Ford part number and the sending unit was included. They were not used on any production cars but was an over the counter item more in line with accessory add ons. Nos one was on Ebay last year in the box but I was sniped at the last moment.
Dave

[68l30]

There are also two different styles of 2" SW custom face gauges.One has the pointer center hung and the other is hung from the bottom.I hate to see a mixed set.I have a set of NOS blue line Sun gauges (oil,H2O,amp,sans sending units)I may be interested in selling.I am selling several Sun Super Tach tachs,email me for details.


Steve

[Stefano]

YDR,
I call first dibbs, let the bidding begin.
Actually,there a several styles of the guages that are very similar.
Original Shelby guages have a Ford part number ink stamped on the back of the brass colored housing and are specific to Shelbys (Silver housing are standard over the counter and similar, usually what you find on e-bay).
They also have a light/glass slot hollowed out of the metal case as opposed to a solid case.
The Shelby guages also have a less curved and more stepped chrome bezel than the non Shelby ones.
Many of the high end Shelbys ,even "Thoroughbred" cars have inncorrect guages.
I'll need some time for the pics.
BTW, Do yours fit any of the discriptions above?

[Edited by Stefano (01-30-2002 at 04:14 PM).]

[Edited by Stefano (01-30-2002 at 06:14 PM).]

[Rat_Pack]

Marlin, sorry I haven't replied sooner but I did not check this post recently. I will email you with a picture as soon as I can.............RatPack................

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm looking at my SW oil pres. guage; 2", pointer pivots from the bottom, brass back, ink stamped on the brass '460 BF 12V NEG GND C2 82304'. Does this make any sense?
M

[Stefano]

Oil gauge should have Pointer as center mount for Shelby application, if memory serves correctly.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Sorry, the pointer points from the bottom up, and pivots from a point between the words 'OIL' and 'PRESSURE'.
M

[Michael]

Does anyone have a Sun water temp. gauge sending unit #WTS 125 or a #WTS 250? I sent my 1966 SST 70 tach to Williamsons in Arkansas and had it converted to electronic---works good. Michael.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Michael, can you post info on how to get in touch with Williamsons?

[Michael]

I don't have their address here but they always advertise in Hemmings. They buy, sell, trade and work on tachometers & speedometers. I still have the old tach look with todays tech.

[whitetop]

Michael
I have never seen a wts-250 sending unit. The gauge was wt-260. The correct Sun sending unit for Chevrolet/GM application is WTS-500 (1/2")
Mopar is WTS-125( 1/8" but will work for Chevrolet with Brass NPT adapter) and WTS_375 is for Ford 3/8. I have a new WTS-500 but will only trade it for a new WTS-125 or WTS_375.
Dave

[Michael]

I probably made a mistake in thinking there was a WTS 250 which would have been 1/4" NPT. Thanks, Michael.