Silver ZL1 at Future Classics?

[Jeff H]

Does anyone know if the silver ZL1 that was at Future Classics (Golden Classics) was one of the real 69 cars or a clone? The car looked pretty well done in the pictures. I also see they still have the Orange RS COPO and the Orange L89 conv was sold. He seems to be dealing more with cars with protect-o-plates now. But then again, that L89 suddenly had a protect-o-plate when it never did before. Curious about the ZL1 though. http://www.futureclassicsnj.com

[Norm reynolds]

I think this car is a clone it states that it has red standard interior there was only one Zl-1 with red interior and it was garnet red not cortez sliver
Norm

[CopoCrunkus]

I believe this same car was on their site about a year ago,The salesman had told me the car was just sold and showed me some pitures(Same car/pics). It was posted on their site at the time as being sold for 60k,At that price I would say Clone also.

-Frank

[Edited by CopoCrunkus (03-14-2002 at 03:44 PM).]

[JChlupsa]

site now shows it as SOLD

[Speedrx]

Has everyone seen this regarding Future Classics?

http://www.cars-on-line.com/68chev5581.html

Buyer Beware of this dealer!

[paul1969]

Hello everyone,

I just visited Future Classics about three weeks ago. As far as the orange L-89, it wasn't sold at the time. I glanced over the car quite quickly and decided to check for one thing. I felt my way around the left rear frame rail looking for the welded dual exhaust plate. I could not find one!! I then went over to see the 69 Z-28 RS (asking over $38,000). I checked for the same thing. No plate. I did see the silver ZL-1 about three or four months ago. It was a nice looking car. Maybe it's my imagination, but at the time, the majority of GM cowl tags on the high-end Camaros looked brand new. I even made the comment to my wife who was standing beside me at the time. I'm not saying that they weren't real, it merely appeared unusually clean along with some others. The gentleman who came over to help me while looking at the car, offered to show me a factory original SS BB 69 that was in the paint shop and was also for sale. After looking at the factory (X11 code) BB, I rushed out the doors without looking back.

[JBB]

As someone who bought a fake L-48 69 SS in 1997. I learned a valuable lesson. Fraud and dishonesty is rampant in this hobby. Especially in consignment dealerships were the liability does not fall on the dealer.
If you don't bring someone like Mr. Cuneen
or Mr. MacNiesh into the picture you could be in trouble. You have people making new cowl tags new protect-o-plates, dealer m.s.o.'s and some people go so far as to make the paperwork even look old. Just be careful. Joel ILL. Camaro Club

[69L89396]

I'm just curious to know what makes you guys "so sure" that the L89 convertable is a clone.
I couldn't tell anything from the photos. All I know is what has been written about this car in the past. It has some documentation so what gives this car away? Did someone get burned by this car before?

[paul1969]

Thanks for the correction Kurt concerning convertibles. I never would have known had you not mentioned it. Many Thanks, Paul

[Kurt S]

Paul,
Car is a clone / fake, though not for that reason. http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

[Edited by Kurt S (03-18-2002 at 10:46 PM).]

[Kurt S]

The history of the car is known. It was a 327 car. Mileage is real.

[Stefano]

My "new to me" 1969 Van Nuys L78 Rag Top Camaro does have the bracket bolted to the frame rail but with no reinforcement plate , just as Kurt stated.

[69L89396]

Looks like the L89 convertable has gone back into hiding again.

[Steve Shauger]

From what I have heard the car was sold at the Atlantic City show for $79K. I have also been told the new owner is now aware that it was a 327ci 210 hp powerglide. I would expect some sort of litigation shortly.

[Norm reynolds]

car sold at atlantic city for 69.500.

[Jeff H]

These clones are really taking some players out of the market. It almost makes me think we need to build a clone database somewhere to help new buyers out. Not to beat down the clones, but to help identify them for what they are. There are probably more 69 Yenko clones than real 69 Yenkos and we all know that there has to be at least 40,000 69 Z28's out there now too. The thing about that L89 conv is that it never had any documentation when it was for sale the past 2 years and then it suddenly shows up for sale with an original protect-o-plate! Is there any way to stop this stuff?

[Rat_Pack]

Yes, quit buying the reproduction trim tags and protecto plates that are on the market and run these guys out of business. As long as the hobby supports the making of these items then the clones/fakes are going to get better. The government needs to step in as to me there is no way a repro POP should be allowed to be made. It contains the VIN of the vehicle and the last time I checked that was illegal to duplicate anything with the vin. That is why the restoration vendors do not have the little blue decal for the drivers door on 70 and up vehicles that had the vin typed on it. About 12 years ago the fed's confinscated all of the parts suppliers/vendors inventory of those decals and they have not been for sale since. I have heard of some "black market" ones available but they are the wrong color and the lettering is the wrong font...........RatPack...................

[TimG]

I don't think there is any way to stop this stuff. The only way to protect yourself is to do the research on a rare vehicle and contact prior owners. I go back to the 1967 L89 Corvette that a dealer sold last summer. The car was in my name for seven years and I was never contacted about the car. When I saw this car nationally advertised I anticipated a number of calls to me. My phone never rang. Another owner here in Austin was never contacted about the car either.

[CamaroKing]

Paul,You were offered to go see a Factory 69 SS BB in the paint shop and you didn't go but you were able to see the trim tag anyway? WOW how did you do that! The only 69 RS Z28 i saw was a beautiful Lemans Blue one that sold for $31.The Silver ZL1 Clone has not been there for about a Year! It is now in California.As Kurt stated about the L89 Conv you did not know what you were looking for.The only car that i was offered to see was a COPO Tuxedo Black 3 owner car that is being restored.It has a X11 Code.Sonds like your a little deep into your knee deep Projects!

[Muscle Car Jon]

I had seen that L89 Convertible at the Atlantic City Auction too. I asked the owner about the car, since it was such low miles. He stated that he had Future research the car because he was getting many questions about the authenticity of it. They had contacted all the parties that were supposed to have built the car. Not one of them had any information on the car and they made no claims to the vehicle. Is this all rumor then? How far can we go to prove a car is a clone? If the car was a built car, and the shop does not claim to ever have the car, and none of the previous owners know, then where can we go? It just seams to be hearsay or rumors. No one is coming forward to say, "Yes, it was my car, and yes it is a clone." The person who bought the car for $69,500 or what ever the auction sale was, bought it at an auction, which is AS/IS. The actual owner of the car had brought it to the auction to sell it. If the buyer thought he paid "too much" after the fact, then that is his fault and not the fault of the seller. No one forced him to bid that price, he did it under his own will. It is just as if we were buying a car from Ebay with the exception that he actually had seen the car and he felt the car was worth it.

[Jeff H]

But if that L89 conv has a fake protect-o-plate, then isn't that now fraudulent? Then the car is being intentionally misrepresented. I personally think it's a great car that was built really well, but it doesn't appear that it is a genuine L89 car.

[69L89396]

I think the only thing that is fraudulent is having to do with the VIN, be it right or wrong.

I don't really see the goverment getting involved with the details like the drive train in a car as to the POP. It is up to the buyer to find out the facts himself before making a purchase.

As long as all these cars are bringing the kind of money they are demanding from the seller, be prepared to see lots more of this.
I predict we will see allot of more NEW COPO's, and all the big block Camaros come into the market. The buyers are out there whating to purchase these type of cars. As long as they are there, so will be the clones. I predict the clones will get even better as time goes on and make it almost impossable to tell the difference. As the price on these cars increases, it makes it easier to invest the money to make a clone.

The only way to hold this down is to start a VIN list for people to go to.

[paul1969]

Dear CamaroKing,

I just spent over an hour and a half typing an extremely nasty response to your post directed at me. I've decided not to post it, but rather, to collect my thoughts and clear this up. I hope that you too can learn something from both our actions. I took the time to read over my reply very carefully. Here's what I came up with: I was wrong about the date that I went to see the ZL-1. It was in no way an intentional mistake. I have come to the conclusion that I have a terrible sense of time and how fast it passes. My observation of the car and the tags has not changed. I did see the orange SS big-block in the paint shop at the same time I saw the ZL-1. My point was to show that the car was being offered as a real SS big-block even though the numbers were incorrect (X-11 code on the tag). As far as the black Z-28 RS on the showroom floor. I did see that 3-4 weeks ago. It was being offered at $38,900. I looked it over briefly and came to the conclusion that for the price, the workmanship on the resto was very poor for such a high asking price and I also doubted the car as being a true Z (my opinion) which remains the same as in the previous post. If it wasn't there when you visited, it must have been sold. You are correct when you stated that I did not know what to look for on the convertible. Kurt mentioned that earlier in the post. Thank You, I learned something new. As for the black COPO you speak of, it wasn't there when I visited, but then again you never stated when you were there. I did however see a 69 Yenko clone (yellow/black) for $32,000 and change. That has probably been sold as well. If I seems as though I am a bit biased at times towards this specific dealer and the cars being sold, it may be because I myself have seen and heard (in person) some of the BS. I won't get into it, but I am aware of it. I still however like to visit, just to glance over the cars and maybe even do a little daydreaming. I do not agree with the practice, but will leave it to the authorities to do the right thing. I must admit, but since becoming a new member on this site (yesterday), I can't seem to stop thinking about just how nasty people can really be towards people they don't even know. I've been on Camaros.net for quite some time now and have never been approached this way. I do all I can to help the fellow enthusiast. I might not have a Yenko or Baldwin and I might not be able to decode tags and broadcast sheets in a single glance, but I'm not some guy that pretends that he has a barn full of priceless muscle and knows everything about them. I currently own three 69 Camaros and have just finished my first resto-upgrade. I spent ten years on my first resto and have the gray hair,empty wallet, burnt eardrum (from using the torches), metal slivers in the eye (grinder),broken finger (lifting the body), a nervous breakdown (rescued by Prozac) and a marriage that was pressed to the outermost limits possible and even to this day (JUST TO NAME A FEW). I've earned my right to join the devoted Camaro owners group. I will make mistakes like most other people too. This will be the first year that I can attend car shows with a finished product and hopefully meet up with some of you and learn some more about my favorite hobby. Thanks for the warm welcome, Paul

[Stefano]

Welcome Paul,will you share your Prozac?

[COPO PETE]

Paul, welcome to the site and thanks for gathering your thoughts before responding. Your a better man for it!
Peter

[Steve Shauger]

Ownership history is a critical piece to determining a cars pedigree. The more research you do, the better the picture you get of the car.
The L89 convert was done very well, and would fool most knowlegeable collectors. I forwarded the information I knew, with the owners name who paid to have the car cloned and of the shop that did the work to Future Classics , but they were unable to verify the information.

I was looking to purchase an L89 coupe a few years ago, but before I made the deal I searched and found the second owner. What was being sold as an original drive train car, was not because the second owner blew a hole in the side of the block in 1977 and replaced it.

[Edited by paceme (03-19-2002 at 04:10 PM).]

[Denis]

How exactly does one burn an eardrum with a torch? Maybe the wife was holding the torch at the time?

[TMagda]

This dealer seems to be selling tons of cars, regardless of his reputation on the web. As time passes and they change hands a few times who will remember where they actually came from. I wonder who is buying all of these cars? I would think anyone in the hobby would know about this site as well as all of the other literature on how to identify certain models. I have been living vicariously through everyone here and at camaros.net while I save for my Camaro. I feel I have learned enough to select a ligit car, however I will be sure to ask for loads of help when that day comes.

[Kurt S]

Umm, I did the ear burn trick once. Was blowing out an exhaust manifolt on a car so I could put a new bolt in. One spark went in my ear. That hurt, as did the bigger one that went down my sleeve........ http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif
How to exit underneath a car very quickly.

Welcome Paul!

[Tim F]

Kurt, I did the same thing Mig welding an exhaust. The spark bounced off my neck and down the eardrum an made a Loud sizzle. I came flyin outta there like an inchworm on fire. Ive worn earplugs when welding ever since. Tim.

[Stefano]

Kurt,
That'll learn ya, stop welding on those dual exhaust plates to all those clones you making and you won't have these problems http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

[BBIGG BLOCK 396]

Welcome Paul,
I know all about mistakes,hell I make one almost every day.My Dad used to tell me there were only two kinds of people that don't make mistakes and that is a person that don't do nothing and a liar.He was right most of the time! I think you will find some very nice people on this site that can be very helpful,and again you might run across one from time to time you don't agree with.Sometimes I just sit back and laugh at some of the entries.It must be the prozac.Now I don't want anybody to think that I am calling anyone a liar,or calling anyone lazy for that is not the case.I am just stating an old saying from my Dad.

[CamarosRus]

Paul, Next time at Future Classics could you check out the Yellow 70 Camaro L-78 and look at the tach redline and max......and whatever else you glean as authentic or NOT....and the asking price...Chuck/seattle

[K Pascoe]

Chuck, The trim tag on that yellow L-78 car is held on with sheetmetal screws. Saw it at Atlantic City auction. Need I say more? KP

[paul1969]

Hi Everyone,

I thank you for the welcomes and kind replies. As for the torch, it was much like KURT and TIM F's story. Working under the car cutting the exhaust. I hear a pop, see a piece of molten metal flying off and hear a loud hiss in my ear. Next thing I recall is lying in the middle of my kitchen floor on my side with the hospital on the telephone, feeling as though I was going to throw up every internal organ I owned. Hi STEFANO!! I haven't had a real need for the Prozac in about four to five years, but after today, it might not be such a bad idea to keep a couple of spare bottles around the house. I'll check on a group discount for us. Thanks for the kind words COPO PETE and BBIGG BLOCK 396, I do feel much better and am grateful for your kindness and understanding. As for CAMARORUSS (Chuck in Seattle). I would normally be more than happy to take the trip over there to look at the car for you, but I think I should stay away from convertibles, ZL-1's and second generations for now. Hope you understand. As for DENIS with the remark about my wife. I think that's what she daydreams about when we're looking the cars over at classics. Once again, I Sincerely thank you all for the welcomes and kind words, Paul

[shor]

KP, What are you saying? The factory didn't use sheetmetal screws on the trim tags? The particular car you are talking about happens to have all of it's interior trim pieces riveted on.

[CamaroKing]

Paul,All i was trying to say is that you were throwing all these negative things out there about the dealer and i have been there recently and those things did not seem true.The Black Z28 was not even an RS and has been sold for $36 which may be a little high but Black is a rare color with houndstooth as well.Everyone bashes the L89 Conv. but the car still was sold for $69 in change in Atlantic City and there were 3 guys bidding it all the way up.In my past visits i was never misled and nothing looked bogus to me.The silver ZL1 i saw about a year ago and it was shown to me as a Clone and it was a top notch car priced at $60k.It was sold to Calif. i heard.I didn't mean to come off like that but you have just come on to this board and you were bashing and that stuff should stop.We all no it is buyer beware in anything we do and should take our proper percautions! Thanks Rob!

[CamaroKing]

Hey K Pascoe,You had a Killer 67 RS/SS Car that came from Future Classics last year at the Atlantic City Show.Car was supposed to have been restored by Bob at Camaro Specialties in NY.How did that happen?

[Norm reynolds]

As far as Future Classics sooner or later some one WILL shut them down its NOT bashing
its getting the word out DO NOT BUY A CAR FROM THEM

[paul1969]

Hi Rob,

To be completely honest, I found the L-89 to be absolutely gorgeous and my favorite color combo to boot. It was a very well restored car. That's why I said nothing about the workmanship involved in the resto. The car was beautiful. The Z-28 I saw on the showroom floor did not have a houdstooth interior, it had a standard interior and was not worth the asking price to me. I have however seen quite a few black Z's on his floors, both RS's and not. They come and go as quickly as you and I are talking despite what I feel to be GOD awful high prices. Everytime I walk in the door, I am very skeptical as to the cars I see. I am this way because I've been involved in one instance myself and have had the displeasure of seeing cars that are not real SS's being offered as real SS's. This is something I know about because I own two SuperSport Rally Sports. One big-block and one small block (originally). I've also spent more than enough time in and under them to know what a good resto is and isn't. I can honestly say that out of all the Camaros I've seen on his lot, very few have really peeked my interest. The siver ZL-1 was one that peaked my interest. I found the car to be beautiful and restored in a fashion that was becoming of a car of it's status. I didn't like the fact that a few of the Camaros at that time had engine compartments that were painted in one color black and cowl tags that looked as though they had a fresh coating of Krylon semi-flat black. It made me downright uncomfortable to say the least and skeptical too. After having the orange SS shown to me way back when and being told by the salesman that it was a factory big-block, Yes, once again I remain skeptical because I have been on the floor and talked to in person. As for the tags, I never said that it was the owners of the dealerhip that were responsible. For all I know, it might be the people who sell the cars to the dealer, inorder to get top dollar for their cars. I often put myself in the owners position and ask myself what I could do to prevent this from happening if it was indeed the peoples greed and foul play. Well, I would hire someone or learn the facts needed to purchase a correct car. If I bought a clone, I would personally sell it as one. If I buy a car that is stated as being something that it isn't, shame on me and shame on the seller if he or she was aware of it. If I was to purchase my second car for top dollar and it wasn't what it was stated to be, shame on me!! I would not however resell it as the real thing. This is where I would mark the line. I would chalk it up as an expensive lesson and do my best to prevent it from happening again. I would tend to think that after this much bologne with clones and such, the dealers and customers would be that much more skeptical about the things that they purchase. Well, from what I read on the internet, it doesn't appear so. I don't believe it will considering the amount of money involved. Let's be realsistic about this, I've heard and talked to more than one person about questionable cars on the lot. I have no doubts as to the possible validity of the complaints. I'm just lucky enough to be one of the many that has not had the money in pocket to go out and purchase at times. It could have been me at the lawyers office. I am biased and I have no problem with people knowing it. ROB, I really want to thank you for the reply to straighten things out. I understand your actions much better than I did before and I hope you understand mine. All is well!! Sincerely sorry for any misunderstandings, Paul

[T Billigen]

The best thing to do is not buy a car at one of these places no matter what the documentation is, once they get a bad reputation it will ruin the value of the car down the road. When you try to sell the car and a prospective buyer finds you bought it at a "classic car dealer" they may tend to shy away, I know I would! Try to buy a car off a private owner if you can or buy a car that you can trace the origin, if it needs restoration get it done by a reputable restorer, which there are a couple that frequent this site.(my opion)

[Steve Shauger]

I wonder what the original protecto plate for the cloned L89 convertible is worth. It documents the car as a 327 210 hp powerglide car with a 307 non posi rear car. Mint condition all #'s matching. Seriously, if someone needs it, I may be able to get you in contact with the person that has it.

[Norm reynolds]

T Billigen is right just heard the camaro internet 3/16/02 show Jerry Mac Neish was on and said that a guy in Cal bought a car from a dealer in new jersey that has changed names and HAS a history of selling fraudulent cars he went on to say that that new owner did not have Jerry look at the car before he bought the car when he got the car the cars motor did not run right the brakes did not work and all the numbers were played with.now it will cost more money for a law sute than Jery whould charge to look at it in the first place he said that people should do there home work before looking to buying a car. show was great
Norm

[Steve Shauger]

I believe the car was sold at Atlantic was sold by the owner not the dealer. The level at which the car was cloned, would make it virtually impossible to detect. Broach mark and stamping fonts are reproduced perfectly now. The corvette people now call restamped blocks "restoration blocks". I doubt the "experts" could have detected this restamp...they have been fooled before!

[Norm reynolds]

The car that Jerry Mac Neish was sold at a dealer not atlantic city he stated thet the restamped was very very poor

[Steve Shauger]

That is probably the 68 z which has been discussed in another thread.I believe it is advertise on cars on line as "alert# matching"

[Edited by paceme (03-20-2002 at 10:22 AM).]

[Norm reynolds]

yes paceme I think that is the car that they were talking about what scares me as the price of these cars gos up how far will people go to clone a car? will get to the point where you just can not tell if its real or a clone they will get better in restamping remanufacture trim tags pop plates
the only wat to stop it is to list all known vin numbers and if they go as far to try to remanufacture a vin plate then they will have gone to far and be shut down and go to jail end of story any one who sells fraudulent cars gives the hobby a black eye
as for me its about the love of these cars and not so much about the money
Norm

[DjD]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="">quote:</font><HR> Orig posted by Speedrx:
Has everyone seen this regarding Future Classics?

http://www.cars-on-line.com/68chev5581.html

Buyer Beware of this dealer! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe this is the car Jerry spoke of.

Dennis

[Rat_Pack]

That is the car. Very poor stampings on the engine and trans, especially the trans. The word is out on this board and just about everywhere to stay away from that dealer. Word of mouth is either your best or worst advertisement.....................RatPack......... .....

[Muscle Car Jon]

I will be going to Future Classics this weekend now that everyone is talking about them again. I have to see what they have new. I have to admit, they do get some good looking cars there. CHUCK, I will check out the 70 Camaro L78 car you were asking about. I'll let you know. I am about an 45min-1 hour from them so its not a big ride.
Has anyone seen some of the stuff at that TRM Classic's place? I called on a car they had recently. It was a Dusk Blue X22 SS car that he was "making" into an RS. He sent me pictures and the car didn't even have the correct RS taillights and back up lights. The engine compartment was a horror show. He also said he will send me a picture of the under side after he is done "blacking it out". He wanted high $20's for a half assed restoration with a non-original motor. That is frightning. Now that sounds like a quick fix and sell job to me! I just noticed that he still has the car but now took the RS package back off and is selling it as a COPO clone. I wish I can just "black out" the under side of my cars and get high $20's! WOW! Talk about trying to make a buck! OH, and Hello Paul, Welcome! - Jon

[K Pascoe]

Shor, The screws that were used on that particular trim tag were sheetmetal screws that you would find in your local hardware store. I don't know the history of the car but when you see something like that it just makes you wonder. Camaroking, Your up on things! That car was traded in at Future and a friend of mine ended up with the car and I purchased it a week after he had it. I sold it at Atlantic City Feb 2001. It was restored by Bob Harris and it was a Gold Spinner car. KP

[paul1969]

Thanks Jon!!

[Kurt S]

That L89 convertible was not restored. That is an original 2000 mile car. From what I hear, the hood (and tailpanel) are the only non-original paint on it.

Paceme: I'd be interested in the #'s off of the original POP for the database, if at all possible. No hurry.....

[69L89396]

Who did the job on the L89? Anyone know?

[Charley Lillard]

Dave Tinnell did it for a Customer in Arkansas.

[Muscle Car Jon]

Chuck,

I got some info off that Daytona Yellow 70 Camaro SS L78 at Future Classics for you this weekend. I was told the car was restored about 1990-1991. The person who restored the car is available to speak with. The current motor is an LS6 454 GM crate motor available at that time (90-91). They were told by the previous owner who did the car that it is the original M21. It has a 12 bolt with 4 leaf springs on each side. Gears are 3.73, it was supposed to be an original 4.10 car. 150 Speedo and 6500 redline tach, Hurst shifter, 51 51 Paint and 711 Trim. I asked about the sheet metal screws holding the trim tag, they said thats how it came in. Over all, a clean, nice looking car. It looks like a frame off restoration. Any questions email me.

[JBB]

Again, we see fraudulent or alleged fraudulent vehicles. I say go to the "shady"
dealers that you know of and look at everything.
It will keep your eye sharp.
It is a shame what is going on in this hobby,
we just have to be careful. Paul, my hat's off to all the things you went through in your quest for Camaro's. But we all have to remember one thing, these are cars, everybody, just cars. There are alot of more importaint things involved in life; God, family, friends, ect. I guess at this point since there is so much nonsense going on in this hobby, I think the real cars will double in value..............Joel

[ny69ssdave]

Are you saying Bob at camaro specialties put the screws in the trim tag?, or he fixed it?

[ny69ssdave]

Did every one leave at the same time?

[x44d80]

I dont know a thing about this particular car but when I painted my last truck I drilled out the rivets that held the tag, painted, then reinstalled with rivets from the hardware store. Stupid, but the truck wasn't anything special so no fraud was intended, I just didnt want the paint to chip around the tag. Maybe this is the case with this car but I don't have any idea.

[Muscle Car Jon]

I had recently spoke with the guy who restored the 1970 L78 Camaro that is at Future Classics. I did a bit of digging, but I got the guys phone number in Florida. The car had a lot of NOS metal replacement and the cowl area was one of them. In the corner of the windshield, typical rust spot, and continued by the tag area. The car was originally sold in Minnisota and was raced. The car didn't have the original motor when this guy restored it (The first owner had removed it because he had a lot of money invested into it and then put it into another body). He replaced all the metal on the car that was rusted with NOS parts (he works for a GM dealer and bought all the parts through the dealership in the late 80's-early 90's) and didn't take the time to find rivits to re-attach the cowl tag and just used screws. The car had won 1st place at some Florida Super Chevy Show in 91 or 92(?) in the Stock Class.
So, that is the story with the cowl tag screws on that car. It wasn't the dealer who messed with the car, just the guy who restored it didn't take the time for that little bit of detail. I am sure there many cars out there just like this one. Why I just did way to much research on a car that I have no interest in, I don't know. Chuck asked for info if any one was at the dealer and I just took the ball and ran with it. I need to get a life! - Jon

[CamarosRus]

Muscle Car Jon, Tried to Email you directly, but you have none. Thanks for taking the time to check out the Future Classics 1970 L-78 Camaro. Other than the 6500/7000 Tach and the L-78 (Norwood) Trim Tags there is little that make the Car different from other 1970 SS Camaros....All the engine parts including the SMOG (A.I.R.), TCS, Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner are usually missing and if you did have the correct parts it would be an easy car to clone. The one I bought was featured on the cover and inside article in the July 1991 Muscle Cars magazine. It is an unrestored survivor and I've seen the VIN # stamped on the engine block and trans...Of the 600 originally built I suspect that less than 50 survive with the original engine....
Regards to all, Chuck

[Kurt S]

The new owner of the L89 convertible just contacted me (via another person). Had to break the news to them that it wasn't real....

[DjD]

OUCH!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/crazy.gif

[Steve Shauger]

Kurt, why did he contact you. Had he known about the car and was getting a confirmation from you. What are his plans, if you can share them?

[BUIZILLA]

http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/shocked.gif

[Kurt S]

From the email:
A friend of mine asked me to do a little digging online to see if I could find out some back ground on a 69 camaro he just bought at auction. I saw your web site and told him about the info you were collecting and he gave me some info on his car to pass along to you. For starters its as I said a 1969 camaro L89 car, its apx.90% original ......


Sounded familiar right away. http://www.yenko.net/ubb/smilies/images/icons/frown.gif
I confirmed the VIN, then told them what it was, haven't heard anymore.

Kurt

[Jeff H]

I thought that car sold at the Atlantic City auction and I didn't think it was Future Classics that sold it at that point but I could be wrong. My point was that the car never had the p-o-p when it was at one of the other consignment shops and then it suddenly did have a p-o-p when it showed up at FC. I'm not inferring that FC had the p-o-p made up but it could have been the previous owner that got taken and wanted to get his money back. I still think it is fraudulent to misrepresent a car like that with bogus documentation. It's getting scary out there guys/gals, makes me think I'll be holding onto my JL8 for quite some time(if it ever gets done).